Israeli officers disciplined

badbrains

Wow, seriouslly yosi? Syria? Well let me start by saying A- the Golan heights belongs to me personally and my family. My grandfather was born there and my uncles bombed out Mercedes is still parked in front of the old house. B- Syria at least GOT OUT of Lebanon, can you say the same about Israel? C- if you think anyone on this thread besides the joker believe you when you think it's actually Syria who are behind those assasinations, I've got news for you my brother. Who benefits the most from those assasinations? Read between the lines. So go on and bring up Syria but I'm telling you, you're wasting your time.

yosi

Everyone and their mother knows that Syria is behind those assassinations! And who benefits the most by killing the people who oppose Syria's continued interference in Lebanese affairs is Syria.

Are you Syrian?

badbrains

Yah that makes a lot of sense. Syria well make it that obvious. You've got to be kidding me. Look I'm no fan of any Arab leader in any part of the world but I'm telling you, SYRIA was NOT behind those assasinations. Oh and my mother will tell you the same so your wrong on everyones mother.

badbrains

And my family are Adiga (Kavkas) people from Golan. We originally come from the cacausus mts. in Russia.

yosi

If you want to replace the word “Destiny” with a more modern term, you might get a hint from a banner that was displayed after the murder of Rafik Hariri. syrial killers, it read, simply. The street reaction to the murder of Rafik Hariri was so intense that it led to the passage of a United Nations resolution mandating the withdrawal of the Syrian Army from Lebanon after almost three decades of occupation. However, it remains the case that those who inconvenience Syria by their criticisms are bad liabilities from the life-insurance point of view. Since somebody’s car bomb killed Hariri and 22 others, somebody has killed Samir Kassir and Gibran Tueni, two of the bravest journalists and editors at the independent newspaper An-Nahar (The Day). Somebody has killed Pierre Gemayel, a leader of the country’s Maronite Catholic community. Somebody has killed George Hawi, a former leader of the Lebanese Communist Party. Somebody has killed Captain Wissam Eid, a senior police intelligence officer in the investigation of the Hariri murder. The murders of these Lebanese patriots, and four others of nearly equal prominence, were all highly professional explosive-charge or hit-squad jobs, and their victims all had one, and only one, thing in common [opposition to Syria]. In a highly unusual resolution, the United Nations has established a tribunal to inquire into the Hariri murder and its ramifications, four Lebanese former generals with ties to Syria have been arrested on suspicion, and an office in The Hague has already begun the preliminary proceedings.

yosi

Ok, but is your nationality Syrian?

yosi

"The Syrian regime assassinated senior officer Mohammed Suleiman," a Syrian opposition official told Ynet on Monday afternoon. The source, Sheik Abdullah al-Raghib al-Hamed, a member of the Syrian Democratic Coalition (SDC), believes that Syrian President Bashar Assad ordered the assassination in order to eliminate witnesses that may incriminate him before international courts investigating the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik al-Hariri, which occurred over three years ago.


Whodunnit
Report: Syria's liaison officer to Hizbullah assassinated / Roee Nahmias
Arab website reports Mohammed Suleiman, who served as Assad's senior advisor, killed by sniper fire over weekend
Full story
"Suleiman was a military engineer by trade. He was surprisingly promoted until he became very close to President Assad. He was suspected of contributing to Hariri's assassination, and due to the ensuing situation he was slowly estranged from all Syrian issues he had formerly commanded except for one – liaison with Hizbullah," al-Hamed said.


When asked why he thought the assassination was masterminded by the government and not an outside source, he said, "The area in which he was killed is surrounded by sensitive military facilities belonging to the Syrian army's intelligence, and it is very well secured. The fact that a sniper shot him is more evidence that the regime did it. The regime's goal is to get rid of anyone who could arrive at an international court and incriminate Assad."


Al-Hamed claimed that the Syrian regime is well-known for using this tactic, and mentioned the case of former Interior Minister Ghazi Canaan, who was found dead in his office in Syria a number of years ago, and who the government claimed had committed suicide.


"We don't know who will be next. It may be a Lebanese opposition figure. I won't even rule out the possibility that the head of intelligence and the president's son in law, Assaf Shawkat, will 'commit suicide' in the future. It's all to do with Hariri," al-Hamed said.


When asked why he thought the Syrian regime had kept quiet over the report, he answered, "Who would they blame? There is no evidence that Israel did it. Why would Israel kill him?"


Regarding reports about Suleiman's involvement in the establishment of Syria's demolished nuclear reactor, al-Hamed said, "I don't think he was connected to it. He was removed over a year ago from all important issues… He was murdered because of the assassination of Rafik al-Hariri. He was part of the inner circle in charge of the assassination. He took care of the logistics."

yosi

I could go on forever with articles about Syria's role in all this nonsense, but that seems kinda boring, so I'll call it quits.

badbrains

No I'm adiga. My grandfathers father left Russia to Syria when Russia tried to genocide my people back then. Russia killed 2 million of my people. Thats 2,000,000. It's not quite 6 million but it's a lot.

badbrains

Ok yosi I get it, Syria bad. But what's the differense with Israel targeting official Hamas leaders? Wether you like it or not Hamas IS there government. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks, that's there legaly voted in government. You wanted democratic that's what they voted.

yosi

badbrains wrote:

Ok yosi I get it, Syria bad. But what's the differense with Israel targeting official Hamas leaders? Wether you like it or not Hamas IS there government. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks, that's there legaly voted in government. You wanted democratic that's what they voted.

The difference is that Syria is assassinating Lebanese leaders for nothing more than opposing them, while Israel is assassinating leaders of Hamas because they are terrorists who attack Israel. That is a pretty big difference.

flywallyfly

yosi wrote:

badbrains wrote:

Ok yosi I get it, Syria bad. But what's the differense with Israel targeting official Hamas leaders? Wether you like it or not Hamas IS there government. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks, that's there legaly voted in government. You wanted democratic that's what they voted.

The difference is that Syria is assassinating Lebanese leaders for nothing more than opposing them, while Israel is assassinating leaders of Hamas because they are terrorists who attack Israel. That is a pretty big difference.

There is no difference - both states are eliminating those who are perceived as threats to their own domination of the region. We could discuss political assassinations in East Timor as well but that really has butkus to do with Israel's war crimes of dropping white phosphorous, does it?

badbrains

yosi wrote:

badbrains wrote:

Ok yosi I get it, Syria bad. But what's the differense with Israel targeting official Hamas leaders? Wether you like it or not Hamas IS there government. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks, that's there legaly voted in government. You wanted democratic that's what they voted.

The difference is that Syria is assassinating Lebanese leaders for nothing more than opposing them, while Israel is assassinating leaders of Hamas because they are terrorists who attack Israel. That is a pretty big difference.

But isn't Hamas opposing Israel?

NoK

yosi wrote:

Ok, that got nasty kind of fast. You're right you didn't say that Syria shouldn't tell Israel where they left their mines, but you'll forgive me if I took that to be the implication of your response. I don't know where you have the idea that Israel wants anything from Syria other than peace, since multiple Israeli governments have signaled a willingness to negotiate with Syria on the basis of land for peace, specifically the Golan in exchange for peace. If you want to believe that Israel never does anything in good faith that is your business, but I think that you are all seeing only part of the picture.

While we've brought up Syria for a second, another question: Why isn't anyone on this thread upset about Syria. This is a country that actively sponsors terrorism, that up until very recently was occupying Lebanon and still maintains a grip on the country through Hezbollah and the SSNP, and that regularly assassinates Lebanese leaders that cross the Assad regime. Do we not care about this? I know I do.

And lest anyone accuse me of trying to deflect attention, I would say that first, discussing the faults of other country's in the region need not detract from your discussions of how much you all loath Israel, and second, perhaps we could gain a better understanding of where Israel is coming from if we take a realistic view of who the neighbors it has to deal with actually are.

The situation with Syria is more complex than you make it out to be. Speaking of recent peace discussions, I believe there were reports that Olmert offered Assad the land back in exchange for peace. Then, the israelis voted in Netanyahu before the peace discussions went from indirect (mediated through Turkey) to direct. And we both know what Netanyahu said about the Golan Heights. To remind you in case you forgot "the Golan will remain in our hands". For me at least, that is a strategic way of delaying peace. One administration starts some discussions, then the next says fuck off, then the one after starts from scratch, etc..

With regards to Lebanon, SSNP are a waste of time so there is no point discussing them. The only "grip" they have of the country is the grip on their balls. Perhaps they rose to prominence when Syria was occupying Lebanon but their aspirations have quickly faded after Syria pulled out. You should note that SSNP are Lebanese and not Syrians though. With regards to the assassinations, they have stopped for now (probably due to the better relations between the two countries) but even when they were going on it was believed that rogue elements within the Syrian security services were behind the attacks and not the government itself. Regardless, this is all assumption and nothing has been proven yet. Lets just say that in Lebanon no one would be shocked if they proved the Syrians were behind it but no one would be shocked if they proved Mossad was either. While it is more likely that the Syrians were behind it (be it rogue elements or government), Mossad have done many similar things before. One example would be that of Elie Hobeika. Hariri was a powerful man with friends in high places, killing him was beneficial for both Syria and Israel as weird as that may sound.

With regards to Hizbullah, I think this is one huge discussion that would probably be deserving of its own thread. Because as a zionist, your mention of Hizbullah would probably be in a negative sense but lets not forget that in 2006 the war they fought was much cleaner than the one the IDF did. For a person who quotes targeting military instead of civilians, I would refer you to the number of military vs civilians killed on both sides. I will also note that they are a Lebanese organisation and not Syrian. As for them having control over the country, well I'll just call bullshit on that because I've been there and lived there and they seem to be happy with what they have.

Byrnzie

flywallyfly wrote:

yosi wrote:

flywallyfly wrote:

I dont understand how they can "discipline" a war crime with a bad note sticky in their file. That is like a giant middle finger pointed at the Palestinians. No wonder those IDF idiots continue to murder at will.

How much can you tell me about the IDF without first looking anything up?

From just what you have written lately i believe my knowledge is limited to them saving Haitians and abused puppies.

By the way, Alan Desrhowitz is disgrace of a human being. And the fact that he teaches at Harvard despite being found guilty of plagiarism and lying shows just what a sorry state American academia is in.

Byrnzie

yosi wrote:

Leaving aside your comparison, which has nothing to do with anything discussed so far in this thread, NO, they should simply stop lynching people in the street without trial.

Don't let anyone ever accuse you of trying to change the subject Yosi.

By the way, Israel carries out illegal, extra-judicial assassinations which are considered crimes against humanity.

And I wonder what Mordachai Vennunu would make of your high regard for the Israeli justice system?

rebornFixer

NoK,

Saying Hizbollah fought a cleaner war in 2006 kinda overlooks the huge disparity in technology and weapons quality between the two forces. Are you arguing that Hizbollah attempted to avoid killing Israeli non-combatants, or are you just keeping score based on casualties? Hizbollah appeared to be trying to kill as many Israelis as possible. If you want to argue that the onus should have been on Israel to minimize collateral damage, OK. I am going to assume that you are not distorting Hizbollah's motives. They launched as many rockets at civilian areas as they could, and saying that this is "clean" is pretty odd.

fuck

rebornFixer wrote:

NoK,

Saying Hizbollah fought a cleaner war in 2006 kinda overlooks the huge disparity in technology and weapons quality between the two forces. Are you arguing that Hizbollah attempted to avoid killing Israeli non-combatants, or are you just keeping score based on casualties? Hizbollah appeared to be trying to kill as many Israelis as possible. If you want to argue that the onus should have been on Israel to minimize collateral damage, OK. I am going to assume that you are not distorting Hizbollah's motives. They launched as many rockets at civilian areas as they could, and saying that this is "clean" is pretty odd.

It's actually disturbing how so many people today can justify actual criminal actions on the basis of the supposed "motive" of the other side.

NoK

rebornFixer wrote:

NoK,

Saying Hizbollah fought a cleaner war in 2006 kinda overlooks the huge disparity in technology and weapons quality between the two forces. Are you arguing that Hizbollah attempted to avoid killing Israeli non-combatants, or are you just keeping score based on casualties? Hizbollah appeared to be trying to kill as many Israelis as possible. If you want to argue that the onus should have been on Israel to minimize collateral damage, OK. I am going to assume that you are not distorting Hizbollah's motives. They launched as many rockets at civilian areas as they could, and saying that this is "clean" is pretty odd.

The huge disparity in technology and weapons quality only makes it worse for the Israelis when you look at the numbers. Guided missiles my ass, unless by guided they mean guided straight to a civilians living room. They seem to have highly sophisticated weapons yet killed 10:1 civilians vs. hizbullah fighters. On the other hand, for a group that is trying so hard to target Israeli civilians, Hizbullah killed 117 IDF and 43 israeli civilians. It doesn't really matter what you want to believe when it comes to motives because its obvious you side with the israelis when it comes to moral high-ground. The numbers say it all and I think that added insult to injury to the israelis in 2006.

rebornFixer

NoK wrote:

rebornFixer wrote:

NoK,

Saying Hizbollah fought a cleaner war in 2006 kinda overlooks the huge disparity in technology and weapons quality between the two forces. Are you arguing that Hizbollah attempted to avoid killing Israeli non-combatants, or are you just keeping score based on casualties? Hizbollah appeared to be trying to kill as many Israelis as possible. If you want to argue that the onus should have been on Israel to minimize collateral damage, OK. I am going to assume that you are not distorting Hizbollah's motives. They launched as many rockets at civilian areas as they could, and saying that this is "clean" is pretty odd.

The huge disparity in technology and weapons quality only makes it worse for the Israelis when you look at the numbers. Guided missiles my ass, unless by guided they mean guided straight to a civilians living room. They seem to have highly sophisticated weapons yet killed 10:1 civilians vs. hizbullah fighters. On the other hand, for a group that is trying so hard to target Israeli civilians, Hizbullah killed 117 IDF and 43 israeli civilians. It doesn't really matter what you want to believe when it comes to motives because its obvious you side with the israelis when it comes to moral high-ground. The numbers say it all and I think that added insult to injury to the israelis in 2006.

If you think the numbers say it all, then you completely missed my point about motives. By the way, Lebanese officials estimate around 500 Hizbollah dead, and about 1200 Lebanese civilians (wikipedia). 1200 civilians is deplorable, but that is hardly a 10:1 ratio.