Criticizing the US in Haiti

gimmesometruth27

aerial wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

aerial wrote:

Why is America EXPECTED to help? Is it because we always come to the aid of the less fortunate....and we are THE country that is always called upon for funds from EVERY other country in time of disaster....is because we help EVERY time we are asked? Now it is EXPECTED from us?

let me ask you one question...is america a leader in this world? my answer would be yes. i am sure you would agree. in times of tragedy and emergency leaders are expected to step up to the plate, put their money where their mouth is, and by god get things done to help. we do it every time, i am PROUD of that part of my country. one of the few things i am proud of here lately. now you are going to sit back and question it when your country has the chance to step up and do some good??? if you were in haiti, what is the closest large economic and military and humanitarian superpower to you? its the usa. it would be fucking stupid to ask for greenland to help and not ask the us which is so close and has the resourses and can get there quickly...

the way i see it, we have two choices as a leader in this world. we can either be a benevolent leader and hlep those in need. or we can be dicks and say "you guys work it out yourselves, we can't be bothered with you problems"...i prefer the former, but its clear some would prefer the latter....

i'm sorry that you think that the US deserves a fucking medal every time we do what is EXPECTED of us.

My point is some are so fast to put down America for being at war and anything else they disagree with (And that’s okay be it there opinion)....but Americans deserve no praise for running to the aid of ALL COUNTRIES in need ?....as we give aid for natural disasters or putting our American solders in harms way for some other countries freedom..... because it is expected of us?.......Why is it EXPECTED from us and not seen as a KIND and GENEROUS offer to help? By the way I am for helping......

i asked if you want a medal. there is a difference between "kind and generous" and doing the right thing. leaders do the right thing. we are leaders in this world, so this help is expected of us. we should respond without expecting praise or a "thank you america" and just do our best to help....you should not expect the world to bow down to the almighty generous USA. we know our place in the world and i personally do not feel the need to place us on a pedestal because we help out in times of disaster. its just something we have always done..if you are lacking in praise maybe try some daily affirmations.

Drowned Out

Has anyone here read the Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism by Naomi Klein?

gimmesometruth27

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i'm not so sure i would ever classify estimates ranging from 40,000 - 200,000 dead a blessing of any sort. more like a tragedy of epic proportions...

I am just saying that this tragedy can turn into something positive. Unless you have a problem with that. :roll:

give me an example of a time in history where 40,000 to 200,000 dead people has had a positive outcome...i can't think of any....

Dirtie_Frank

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i'm not so sure i would ever classify estimates ranging from 40,000 - 200,000 dead a blessing of any sort. more like a tragedy of epic proportions...

I am just saying that this tragedy can turn into something positive. Unless you have a problem with that. :roll:

give me an example of a time in history where 40,000 to 200,000 dead people has had a positive outcome...i can't think of any....

Why are you always so negative. Not hugged enough as a child? I was merely saying that even before the Earthquake Haiti was a horrible place. Now with a stronger UN presence in the country maybe they can rebuild the country to a place where people would want to live. Where people are not eating dirt cookies, like I have read they would do. I wish it could have happend before but it did not. It will not happen overnight but yes I think there can be a positive found in this tragedy. I am sorry all you can see is the negativity.

WaveCameCrashin

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

are gimmie and brynzie the same person ??

no.

i'm sorry that you think that the US deserves a fucking medal every time we do what is EXPECTED of us...do you get a bonus at your job for showing up on time and doing the work you are supposed to do? no i don't, because i am EXPECTED to do those things. if you go above and beyond expectations then you reap the rewards. same thing, if you are fucking up at work you would hear about it in a review. same thing here, we are fucking up other things in this world while we are helping in Haiti. you have to be able to think critically of your country. most intellectuals do that and most dolts are incapable of that. you must see the bad with the good and try to improve the bad while maintaining the good.

people on here that think like you go on and on about all the good we do yet ignore the bad. while you all are busy patting yourself on the back there are a bunch of other countries that hate you for it...for taking credit for things you are EXPECTED to do...

There you go again putting words in my mouth. When did I ever say we deserve a medal ? :roll: I know we have made mistakes but unlike you and others I don't dwell on it 24/7. Just because I don't talk about it or join in on your anti american rhtoric doesn't mean im not engaged or aware of what's going on in the world.What good does it do? Personally I think you like bashing your country because you think it's the cool liberal thing to do.When have you ever had one positive thing to say about your country or anything for that matter? Im proud of my country. Especially when we are able to do things for other countries in need. It makes me feel good to be an American and like Im part of something. It makes me proud of other countries when they are able to help also. I get really tired of people like you always seeing the negative. It's like damn if we do . Damn if we don't. No matter what we do it will never be enough. When have we ever not helped a country in need due to a natrual disaster in the last 50 years? You have to also realize that we can't always fix everyones problems either.
And why are we politicizing a natural disaster anyway? Everyone needs to put there money where there mouth is or heart is and donate what you can.

gimmesometruth27

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

Why are you always so negative. Not hugged enough as a child? I was merely saying that even before the Earthquake Haiti was a horrible place. Now with a stronger UN presence in the country maybe they can rebuild the country to a place where people would want to live. Where people are not eating dirt cookies, like I have read they would do. I wish it could have happend before but it did not. It will not happen overnight but yes I think there can be a positive found in this tragedy. I am sorry all you can see is the negativity.

i'm not being negative, i am being realistic. you wish it happened sooner? sooner than when? there is no good time for this to happen. it is total devestation of the entire fucking country. bodies piled in the streets, elderly sitting in the sun starving and dehydrated waiting for the hand of death, people crushed under tons of concrete and steel rubble, people having arms and legs amputated due to massive crush injuries, not enough clean water or food, dysentery and typhus and death are in the air. what a miserable, terrible existance, waiting to be rescued or for death which ever finds you first...

now are you going to answer my question? when has 40,000 to 200,000 dead ever had a positive outcome???

if not, i think i proved my point...

Dirtie_Frank

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

Why are you always so negative. Not hugged enough as a child? I was merely saying that even before the Earthquake Haiti was a horrible place. Now with a stronger UN presence in the country maybe they can rebuild the country to a place where people would want to live. Where people are not eating dirt cookies, like I have read they would do. I wish it could have happend before but it did not. It will not happen overnight but yes I think there can be a positive found in this tragedy. I am sorry all you can see is the negativity.

i'm not being negative, i am being realistic. you wish it happened sooner? sooner than when? there is no good time for this to happen. it is total devestation of the entire fucking country. bodies piled in the streets, elderly sitting in the sun starving and dehydrated waiting for the hand of death, people crushed under tons of concrete and steel rubble, people having arms and legs amputated due to massive crush injuries, not enough clean water or food, dysentery and typhus and death are in the air. what a miserable, terrible existance, waiting to be rescued or for death which ever finds you first...

now are you going to answer my question? when has 40,000 to 200,000 dead ever had a positive outcome???

if not, i think i proved my point...

I wished the rebuilding happened sooner, not the earthquake. :roll:

Dirtie_Frank

Positive from a tragedy...Well the testing the Nazi's did on the Jewish people brought many medical advances. So there is a tragedy that all these people were tested on and killed but from there we have a lot of medical advances.

WaveCameCrashin

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i'm not so sure i would ever classify estimates ranging from 40,000 - 200,000 dead a blessing of any sort. more like a tragedy of epic proportions...

I am just saying that this tragedy can turn into something positive. Unless you have a problem with that. :roll:

give me an example of a time in history where 40,000 to 200,000 dead people has had a positive outcome...i can't think of any....

That's because you choose not to. You can always turn a negative into a positve. Just an example: What about all the children that are being adopted from Hati ? If it weren't for that earthquake they would still be sitting there hopeless. Now thanks to the Dutch and us these kids will have a chance in life and not have live in poverty for the rest of their lives.

gimmesometruth27

prfctlefts wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

are gimmie and brynzie the same person ??

no.

i'm sorry that you think that the US deserves a fucking medal every time we do what is EXPECTED of us...do you get a bonus at your job for showing up on time and doing the work you are supposed to do? no i don't, because i am EXPECTED to do those things. if you go above and beyond expectations then you reap the rewards. same thing, if you are fucking up at work you would hear about it in a review. same thing here, we are fucking up other things in this world while we are helping in Haiti. you have to be able to think critically of your country. most intellectuals do that and most dolts are incapable of that. you must see the bad with the good and try to improve the bad while maintaining the good.

people on here that think like you go on and on about all the good we do yet ignore the bad. while you all are busy patting yourself on the back there are a bunch of other countries that hate you for it...for taking credit for things you are EXPECTED to do...

There you go again putting words in my mouth. When did I ever say we deserve a medal ? :roll: I know we have made mistakes but unlike you and others I don't dwell on it 24/7. Just because I don't talk about it or join in on your anti american rhtoric doesn't mean im not engaged or aware of what's going on in the world What good does it do? Personally I think you like bashing your country because you think it's the col liberal thing to do.When have you ever had one positive thing to say about your country or anything for that matter. Im proud of my country. Especially when we are able to do things for other countries in need it makes me feel good to be an American and like Im part of something. It makes me proud of other countries when they are able to help to. I get really tired of people like you always seeing the negative. It's like damn if we do . Damn if we don't. No matter what we do it will never be enough. When have we ever not helped a country in need due to a natrual disaster in the last 50 years? You have to also realize that we can't always fix everyones problems either.
And why are we politicizing a natural disaster anyway? Everyone needs to put there money where there mouth is or heart is and donate what you can.

i'm just going to reply to a few of your points...

1. when have i said someting positive? maybe in a post earlier today where i said i am proud of my country's response...

2. its not the cool liberal thing to do by bashing my country. i see things from all sides. something someone like you can not do. if you could you would not fall on your damn sword every time america does something bad. i have never ever seen you criticize your country for anything it has ever done. none of the international law and treaty violations, not the bullshit wars, not the suspension of habeas corpus and extraordinary rendition, nothing.. not once. instead you make excuses for things like the war in iraq and gitmo and abu ghraib, etc...

3. in the last 50 years what have we not helped with?? that's easy. the big quakes in iran and china. if you paid attention like you have said you do you would not need to ask me that.

but if you want to see america through rose colored glasses continue to do so, and continue to make yourself look like a dumbass on the message board be my guest.... :roll:

gimmesometruth27

prfctlefts wrote:

That's because you choose not to. You can always turn a negative into a positve. Just an example: What about all the children that are being adopted from Hati ? If it weren't for that earthquake they would still be sitting there hopeless. Now thanks to the Dutch and us these kids will have a chance in life and not have live in poverty for the rest of their lives.

this does not answer my question. so a few hundred kids get adopted and taken away from their homeland...small amount of good i guess. but not the answer i was looking for.

Dirtie_Frank

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

That's because you choose not to. You can always turn a negative into a positve. Just an example: What about all the children that are being adopted from Hati ? If it weren't for that earthquake they would still be sitting there hopeless. Now thanks to the Dutch and us these kids will have a chance in life and not have live in poverty for the rest of their lives.

this does not answer my question. so a few hundred kids get adopted and taken away from their homeland...small amount of good i guess. but not the answer i was looking for.

Sad to say it is not going to happen in an instant. I guess you want everything now.

rebornFixer

gimme,

Were you referring to the 2008 quake in China? The U.S. certainly offered aid to the Chinese. I cannot recall whether said offer was accepted, though.

WaveCameCrashin

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

That's because you choose not to. You can always turn a negative into a positve. Just an example: What about all the children that are being adopted from Hati ? If it weren't for that earthquake they would still be sitting there hopeless. Now thanks to the Dutch and us these kids will have a chance in life and not have live in poverty for the rest of their lives.

this does not answer my question. so a few hundred kids get adopted and taken away from their homeland...small amount of good i guess. but not the answer i was looking for.

Man your a real peice of shit arent you. So I guess we should just leave them ther since there parents were just killed. Like I said it 's never enough no matter what we do.

WaveCameCrashin

rebornFixer wrote:

gimme,

Were you referring to the 2008 quake in China? The U.S. certainly offered aid to the Chinese. I cannot recall whether said offer was accepted, though.

That's exactly what I was going to say .The same with Iran also. You think that they are going let us. yeah right keep dreamin.

rebornFixer

prfctlefts wrote:

rebornFixer wrote:

gimme,

Were you referring to the 2008 quake in China? The U.S. certainly offered aid to the Chinese. I cannot recall whether said offer was accepted, though.

That's exactly what I was going to say .The same with Iran also. You think that they are going let us. yeah right keep dreamin.

Iran is particularly dicey. Its not going to happen, even if American willingness was/is there. Politics should not trump humanitarian concerns, but they sometimes do.

WaveCameCrashin

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i see things from all sides

Oh really ?? :roll: :roll: That's the funniest thing ive read all week on here.

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i have never ever seen you criticize your country for anything it has ever done.

Do you only hear or read what you want to ? Did I not just explain myself in my last post ? Damn this shit gets old. I feel like Im talking to a wall somtimes around here. I could go into every one of those subjects and give you a reason,but this shit gets old after a while and you will just try and spin it anyway or put words in my mouth like you always do.

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i have never ever seen you criticize your country for anything it has ever done. none of the international law and treaty violations, not the bullshit wars, not the suspension of habeas corpus and extraordinary rendition, nothing.. not once. instead you make excuses for things like the war in iraq and gitmo and abu ghraib, etc...

Why would I when it's our GOVERNMENT thats doing this not us.

gimmesometruth27

prfctlefts wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

That's because you choose not to. You can always turn a negative into a positve. Just an example: What about all the children that are being adopted from Hati ? If it weren't for that earthquake they would still be sitting there hopeless. Now thanks to the Dutch and us these kids will have a chance in life and not have live in poverty for the rest of their lives.

this does not answer my question. so a few hundred kids get adopted and taken away from their homeland...small amount of good i guess. but not the answer i was looking for.

Man your a real peice of shit arent you. So I guess we should just leave them ther since there parents were just killed. Like I said it 's never enough no matter what we do.

wow that's not name calling is it? :roll:

WaveCameCrashin

so... you called me a dumb ass

Dirtie_Frank

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

That's because you choose not to. You can always turn a negative into a positve. Just an example: What about all the children that are being adopted from Hati ? If it weren't for that earthquake they would still be sitting there hopeless. Now thanks to the Dutch and us these kids will have a chance in life and not have live in poverty for the rest of their lives.

this does not answer my question. so a few hundred kids get adopted and taken away from their homeland...small amount of good i guess. but not the answer i was looking for.

My example not good enought to discuss?