would you want your advisors to come to you and give you the incomplete story or the wrong story and you pass that misinformation on to a concerned public? seeing that you want obama to fail, you feel that is what should have been done i have no doubt.
I would want them or he to tell him or us somthing. It's better than nothing at all. He didn't seem to care about all the facts when one of his homeboys was arrested be fore he called the arresting officers stupid.
you say we can't "interrogate" the suspect. what type of interrogation are you advocating here? waterboarding? how about extraordinary rendition?
Well really I think he shoul have all of his finger nails pulled out :roll: :roll: Of course I don't expect him to be water boarded. I want him to answer some questions. Is that ok ??
o people who think like you will begin to beat the war drums to expand this war.
Oh I see. So we should just ignore this and just pretend like nothing ever happened right. A big fucking joke right ??? you really need to change your username to something else,because the truth is right in front of you yet you choose to ignore it
oh yeah, what the hell is the truth? if the government does not know it i am sure that you don't know it either...
it is not the president's job responsibility to keep a person off of a plane. that is the role of the airline employees as designated by the TSA.
you would want him to tell you something like "ummmm some guy tried to detonate a bomb on a plane five minutes ago....we don't have all of the information so feel free to speculate all you want...hell just make up your own story and put it on the news, because we don't have all of the details yet...he was from yemen, no wait from america...no it was maybe nigeria. he had a passport, no wait he didnt...erm...i will get back to you in a few days when i know something more concrete..." if that is what you want then when you get elected president then you can do it that way. until then deal with the fact that different presidents have different ways of doing things.
he spoke out against that cop because that professor was a friend of his. would you not defend your friend over something so stupid as that whole flap?? probably not...
the suspect will answer questions when the time is right, and according to our legal system. is that ok with you mr jack bauer?????
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I just heard on the news that a lawyer that was on the flight saw this guy with another man in a suit...the man in the suit was talking to the ticket sales lady saying the bomber did not have a passport but need to be on the flight ....they were told to talk to the manager....So if this is true how did this guy even get on the plane with no passport?...bribery?
This was said on the news, then they said he did indeed have a passport, so I have no idea why that guy said he heard he did not. They said that guy in the suit also said the guy was a refuge. None of that appears to be true anymore? Oh, and all of that supposedly happened in Amsterdam.
Thanks for the update
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
I'd like to know why it took Obama's people 3 hrs to notify him and then it took him 3 days to even say anything about it. :wtf: Oh I forgot he was on vacation :roll: Those damn turrist,and I thought there was no war on terror as some on her would like to believe. :roll:
who cares if it took 3 hours to inform him or if it took 3 days to "say anything"...why is this even an issue...?
yeah why rush and speak publicly when not all information is known yet? you risk spreading the wrong info that way. its been 3 days and they still don't know the full story.
obama can't do anything right for some people. had he spoken earlier he would have probably said something that was not true, just like the people that said the guy had no passport when in fact he did.
by the way, war on terror, perfectlefts, YOU CAN NOT WIN A WAR AGAINST A TACTIC!! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!
that would be like me waging a war on willfull ignorance. it can't be won....
You two probably gave old W a hard time when he sat at the school after hearing about the attacks. It is the same type of thing right. They both took their time and waited. Right or wrong? Or since it was George Bush you gave him a hard time about it?
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You two probably gave old W a hard time when he sat at the school after hearing about the attacks. It is the same type of thing right. They both took their time and waited. Right or wrong? Or since it was George Bush you gave him a hard time about it?
sorry dude, but you might recall that 9/11 was a successful attack warranting immediate speech from the chief executive. this was an attempt that failed miserably. no need to jump to conclusions and create a public panic. these are two completely different things entirely. its apples to oranges.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I'd like to know why it took Obama's people 3 hrs to notify him and then it took him 3 days to even say anything about it. :wtf: Oh I forgot he was on vacation :roll: Those damn turrist,and I thought there was no war on terror as some on her would like to believe. :roll:
maybe he wanted to finish reading my pet goat first?
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
You two probably gave old W a hard time when he sat at the school after hearing about the attacks. It is the same type of thing right. They both took their time and waited. Right or wrong? Or since it was George Bush you gave him a hard time about it?
wrong, because 1 actually happened and killed people, the other was stopped before anything happened.
it's like saying a cop got a call about a rape happening and finished his lunch first is the same thing as a cop got a call about a rape suspect being apprehended and finished his lunch first
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
You two probably gave old W a hard time when he sat at the school after hearing about the attacks. It is the same type of thing right. They both took their time and waited. Right or wrong? Or since it was George Bush you gave him a hard time about it?
...
There were huge differences in play here... on September 11, 2001, events were still unfolding. The first crash into the World Trade Center could have been an aviation disaster and information was being sorted out. The second crash was a definate indication that we were facing something other than an accident.
The recent events were closed out. The passenger was subdued and in the custody of law enforcement. Had a second event been carried out withing an hour, the same conclusion would have been revealed... we were under a coordinated attack. And my best guess would be that action would have taken place. But, since this appeared to be a single act and the criminal was under arrest... things are different.
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funny how people forget that it took bush 6 days to even mention the shoe bomber incident....yet they are all over obama for taking 3 days.... :roll: :roll:
The bellowing by Republicans over the Obama administration's supposedly lackadaisical response to the attempted bombing of an airliner over Detroit seems as much about political posturing as legitimate national security concerns.
How else to explain the GOP's relatively quiet reaction eight years ago to President George W. Bush's detached response after a similarly-botched terrorist attack?
On December 22, 2001, Richard Reid -- known more infamously as the shoe bomber -- failed in his attempt to blow up a Miami-bound jet using explosives hidden in his shoe. Coming less than four months after September 11, there already were deep concerns about a potential attack during the upcoming holiday break. Nevertheless, President Bush did not directly address the foiled plot for six days, according to an extensive review of newspaper records from that time period. And when he did, it was only in passing.
The day of the attempted attack, for example, the Associated Press reported that "White House officials" were monitoring the situation throughout the afternoon and that "President Bush received two briefings" on the matter while at Camp David for the holidays. Spokesman Scott McClellan, meanwhile, told reporters that administration officials were consulting with acting Massachusetts Gov. Jane Swift -- the plane Reid boarded made an emergency landing at Boston's Logan International Airport.
"The White House has been monitoring the situation since early on today," McClellan said, according to a Washington Post article published on December 23. The lead statement came from Swift, who lauded the "heroic acts" of "the flight attendants and passengers who helped subdue the suspect."
Little changed in the days ahead. The Washington Post, citing administration sources, also reported on Sunday December 23 that Bush would seek an increase in domestic security funds as the centerpiece of his 2003 budget request. On Monday December 24, CNN reported that Bush called members of the U.S. military stationed overseas to pass along holiday wishes. He was joined at Camp David that day by "the extended Bush clan... including the President's parents, the former President and the First Lady."
That same day, The New York Post quoted Thomas Kinton, interim executive director of the Massachusetts Port Authority, discussing how Reid was ultimately subdued. In addition, U.S. Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.), was quoted saying: "The message here... is that terrorists are going to hit us again." The final edition of USA Today that day reported that: "A White House spokesman said President Bush was monitoring the incident." As for an on-the-record comment, The Boston Globe noted that: "Bush has not issued any statements about the incident."
By Wednesday, December 26, Bush had left Camp David and was en route via Air Force One to his ranch in Crawford, Texas, according to ABC News. While there, another equally pressing national security concern entered his radar: Osama bin Laden released another videotape. On the scene in Crawford, then CNN correspondent Major Garrett was asked whether the administration had any reaction.
"No, Wolf," he said to host Wolf Blitzer. "The White House is really a bit hamstrung in this regard. First of all, it didn't expect the tape to be released. Second of all, many senior advisers are not here with the president at the Crawford ranch. Many of them are taking what the president considers to be a well-deserved vacation. And they're scattered around the country. They're trying to get in touch with each other."
By the end of the day, a response was issued -- but from a deputy press secretary and not the president himself. "The Bush administration says Osama bin Laden's latest statements are -- quote -- "terrorist propaganda,'" relayed Blitzer.
"That itself is a story, Wolf," Major Garrett remarked. "Because the White House really feels that now if it responded in any more formal way, any more lengthy way, it would be he elevating bin Laden in a way that's simply not in the United States's or its coalition partners' overall interest."
The real kicker came the next day -- Thursday December 27. CNN led off its report by noting that the president "decided to keep quiet" about "the latest bin Laden tape" in what was a "quiet day at the Western White House." Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, however, held a press conference in which he announced -- to the amazement of some observers -- that he'd "stopped chasing" reports on the terrorist leader.
In that press conference, Rumsfeld was also asked about Richard Reid -- now five days after the incident. "That's a matter that's in the hands of the law enforcement people and not the Department of Defense," he said. "And I don't have anything I would want to add."
It would be another day before Bush himself publicly mentioned the shoe bomber. In a press conference on December 28, in Crawford, the president said that incident was proof that "the country has been on alert."
"A stewardess on an American Airlines flight - or a flight attendant on an American Airlines flight - was vigilant, saw something amiss and responded," he added. "It's an indication that the culture of America has shifted to one of alertness, and I'm grateful for the flight attendant's response, as I'm sure the passengers on that airplane."
And so there you have it. The Bush White House downplayed not just the Reid incident (handing over lead responsibilities to federal law enforcement officials) but also consciously deflected attention away from bin Laden out of concern about elevating his latest antics.
In contrast to that response, the current White House has been quite active. The attempted bombing of the plane over Detroit occurred on December 25. That night, Obama convened a secure conference call with his Homeland Security and counter-terrorism advisers. He did the same the next morning and the morning after that. On the 27th, the president dispatched his press secretary, Robert Gibbs, and the head of the Department of Homeland Security, Janet Napolitano, to the Sunday shows to take questions on the matter. And on December 28, he gave a public statement while still on site in Hawaii.
Obama may not have worn a tie while giving those remarks (which has annoyed more than a few conservatives). But he did host a public address specifically on the situation (which Bush did not do). And while Napolitano may have gaffed during the first round of interviews by proclaiming that the system worked, it was nothing worse than what then-Attorney General John Ashcroft said about Richard Reid back in 2001.
"Throughout the war on terrorism, our military and intelligence officials have made a concerted effort to share appropriate information with the public in order to enlist their assistance," Ashcroft said, in remarks highlighted by ABC News. "We've asked citizens to be vigilant, to be alert to any possible threat. The success of this strategy was made clear by yesterday's indictment of Richard Reid, who may very well have succeeded in destroying American Airlines Flight Number 63, as the indictment charges, had it not been for the courage and attentiveness of the citizen passengers and crew."
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
funny how people forget that it took bush 6 days to even mention the shoe bomber incident....yet they are all over obama for taking 3 days.... :roll: :roll:
Ya' see... this is a big part of the problem. As an extremist moderate with socialistic libertarian leanings, my views balance out somewhere near the middle. I came to despise Clinton (after campaigning for him,) and always despised Bush(es). So, I was always dismayed when I heard the Bushies go on and on about "....But Clinton did worse," and I find it just as distasteful when the Obama supporters now do it with things like, "...But it took George 6 days instead of 3." Is W really the standard you want to hold your guy to, and excuse/accept everything as long as you feel you can make the argument that your guy wasn't quite as bad? Is that really where we want to be? Really?
This is our fuckin' lives, Folks. "Not as bad as Bush" doesn't fuckin' cut it. Defending the Dem wing of the RubupliCrat party against the GOP wing doesn't fuckin' cut it. And vice-versa. We need to stop aligning, especially when it comes to our votes, out of hate and fear.
And, just to be clear, aside from the tangential issue of Napolitano being an utter tool from Day 1 of her tenure, I have no major problems with President Obama on this. No system can be 100% successful, and the real failures occurred overseas and outside of US gov't control. We need to crack the whip or block flights from these nations if they don't get their shit together, but it's ridiculous to get overly pissy with the President at this point.
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funny how people forget that it took bush 6 days to even mention the shoe bomber incident....yet they are all over obama for taking 3 days.... :roll: :roll:
Ya' see... this is a big part of the problem. As an extremist moderate with socialistic libertarian leanings, my views balance out somewhere near the middle. I came to despise Clinton (after campaigning for him,) and always despised Bush(es). So, I was always dismayed when I heard the Bushies go on and on about "....But Clinton did worse," and I find it just as distasteful when the Obama supporters now do it with things like, "...But it took George 6 days instead of 3." Is W really the standard you want to hold your guy to, and excuse/accept everything as long as you feel you can make the argument that your guy wasn't quite as bad? Is that really where we want to be? Really?
This is our fuckin' lives, Folks. "Not as bad as Bush" doesn't fuckin' cut it. Defending the Dem wing of the RubupliCrat party against the GOP wing doesn't fuckin' cut it. And vice-versa. We need to stop aligning, especially when it comes to our votes, out of hate and fear.
And, just to be clear, aside from the tangential issue of Napolitano being an utter tool from Day 1 of her tenure, I have no major problems with President Obama on this. No system can be 100% successful, and the real failures occurred overseas and outside of US gov't control. We need to crack the whip or block flights from these nations if they don't get their shit together, but it's ridiculous to get overly pissy with the President at this point.
isn't a moderate in themiddle? an extremist would be on one side or the other, so extremist moderate does not make any sense to me. isn't socialistic and libertarian an oxymoron? socialistic is on the left and libertarian is on the right, with those two terms you can't be both, rather its a contradiction. if you will read the thread you will see that people were blaming obama for taking 3 days to address this. i posted this article to show that their guy took 6 days to respond and not one republican made an issue that it took so long and the circumstances are completely different and back then it was much worse with everyone being so paranoid of being attacked again. so spare me your lamenting. it is how it is and the situation in this country is what it is. this "stop aligning" come together rah rah crap is not going to work. the republicans have made it clear that they are not on board for anything other than every man for themselves, lower taxes, no gay marriage, and increased military spending, and NO to anything the dems or obama suggests. they sit back and point fingers at the current president just like others sit back and point fingers at the prior one that fucked everything up so terribly.
if you are going to quote me, can you refute my article or not? or are you just going to sit back and complain about it?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
isn't a moderate in themiddle? an extremist would be on one side or the other, so extremist moderate does not make any sense to me. isn't socialistic and libertarian an oxymoron? socialistic is on the left and libertarian is on the right, with those two terms you can't be both, rather its a contradiction.
Look... there are certain positions I hold that people on the left would consider far right (or libertarian, which often is at odds with what is considered 'right wing',) and there are certain views of mine that people on the right would consider far left (or socialist.) So, if you put all of my extreme political thoughts on a scale, it would balance out somewhere near the middle, making me a moderate. Get it?
if you will read the thread you will see that people were blaming obama for taking 3 days to address this.
And if one read between the lines, which weren't that close together, one could see my disdain for them raising that issue.
so spare me your lamenting.
I'm sorry you feel that way.
it is how it is and the situation in this country is what it is.
Unfortunately, you are correct. Unfortunately, you are part of the problem, IMO, and part of the masses who allow the masters of both wings of our one party system to keep pitting people against each other while stealing our rights and money.
this "stop aligning" come together rah rah crap is not going to work.
Evidently not :(
the republicans have made it clear that they are not on board for anything other than every man for themselves, lower taxes, no gay marriage, and increased military spending, and NO to anything the dems or obama suggests.
Yeah... just like the Dems a short time back. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!!! Not to mention that you do realize the position of almost the entire Dem leadership, including President Obama, when it comes to gay marriage, don't you? Don't know why supporters of the Dem power structure feel they have any legitimacy in bringing up gay marriage as if there is a meaningful difference between the parties, but enough of that.
they sit back and point fingers at the current president just like others sit back and point fingers at the prior one that fucked everything up so terribly.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM!!!
if you are going to quote me, can you refute my article or not? or are you just going to sit back and complain about it?
The latter, since there's not much there to refute. However, is any of it germane? Not in my opinion, but... yeah... it is one more point for the "We're not as bad as Bush" side. WoooHoooo :roll:
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~~~~~~~
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RNDM NYC 2012 TOTD SF 2016
isn't a moderate in themiddle? an extremist would be on one side or the other, so extremist moderate does not make any sense to me. isn't socialistic and libertarian an oxymoron? socialistic is on the left and libertarian is on the right, with those two terms you can't be both, rather its a contradiction.
Look... there are certain positions I hold that people on the left would consider far right (or libertarian, which often is at odds with what is considered 'right wing',) and there are certain views of mine that people on the right would consider far left (or socialist.) So, if you put all of my extreme political thoughts on a scale, it would balance out somewhere near the middle, making me a moderate. Get it?
if you will read the thread you will see that people were blaming obama for taking 3 days to address this.
And if one read between the lines, which weren't that close together, one could see my disdain for them raising that issue.
so spare me your lamenting.
I'm sorry you feel that way.
it is how it is and the situation in this country is what it is.
Unfortunately, you are correct. Unfortunately, you are part of the problem, IMO, and part of the masses who allow the masters of both wings of our one party system to keep pitting people against each other while stealing our rights and money.
this "stop aligning" come together rah rah crap is not going to work.
Evidently not :(
the republicans have made it clear that they are not on board for anything other than every man for themselves, lower taxes, no gay marriage, and increased military spending, and NO to anything the dems or obama suggests.
Yeah... just like the Dems a short time back. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!!! Not to mention that you do realize the position of almost the entire Dem leadership, including President Obama, when it comes to gay marriage, don't you? Don't know why supporters of the Dem power structure feel they have any legitimacy in bringing up gay marriage as if there is a meaningful difference between the parties, but enough of that.
they sit back and point fingers at the current president just like others sit back and point fingers at the prior one that fucked everything up so terribly.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM!!!
if you are going to quote me, can you refute my article or not? or are you just going to sit back and complain about it?
The latter, since there's not much there to refute. However, is any of it germane? Not in my opinion, but... yeah... it is one more point for the "We're not as bad as Bush" side. WoooHoooo :roll:
i'm not going waste my time with this response. i don't need you to tell me what the problem is. if i am part of the problem, then so are you because i do not see you doing anything about it other than pointing out the obvious.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Whatever... I'm just speaking from the heart, as were you. Didn't mean to be overly bombastic, and hope it didn't come across that way.
i don't need you to tell me what the problem is.
You can't handle the truth. You want me on that wall... you NEED me on that wall :twisted:
if i am part of the problem, then so are you because i do not see you doing anything about it other than pointing out the obvious.
I vote EVERY November, and for ALL federal offices and most state offices I vote Green, Libertarian, etc. instead of GOP or Dem. I spend significant amounts of time trying to get others to do the same. Don't know what else I'm supposed to do, but am open to suggestions.
Last Philly Spectrum Show - Halloween 2009
MSG 1 & 2 2010
Montreal 2011
Missoula 2012
Seattle 2013
Denver 2014
Central Park NYC 2015
Sunrise 2016
Wrigley 2 2016 Seattle 1 2018
~~~~~~~
EV NYC 2 2011
RNDM NYC 2012 TOTD SF 2016
you started this thread, and you seem to be most concerned about obama's delayed response. do you care to comment on my article?
No not really, because what Bush did is in the past,and if anything I would think Obama would have learned something from all the mistakes that the Bush administration made,but apparently not. Then again Obama and Nepalatano wont even use the words Muslim,Islamic,Terrorist,War on terror.Do they even know who were at war with? :?
can anyone tell me what would have changed if Obama went on TV or whatever and mentioned this right away? how would life be any different?
believe me, i think there's plenty to be critical of Obama on but this just seems like nit picking. it seems reasonable he wanted to have some information first before having a million questions cast at him and fox screaming al qaeda is trying to attack us and trying to whip everybody into a panic.
to me wanting to do some investigating before making a statement is far different from being told the country is under attack, not someone TRIED to do something and is in custody but we are currently being attacked, right now.
another key difference is Obama wasn't going to be doing any of the investigating himself, he was waiting for a report with information and facts so he had more to go on than speculation and 'i don't know' s when asked questions if he came right out and said it. Bush, on the other hand, DID have a role to play. he was told we were under attack, so it was HIS responsibility to decide what to do about it, after all, he is the decider, right?? and because he was a rich yuppy loaf with no real experience or sense he had no idea what to do, i'm not even sure i would know what to do but i wouldn't just sit around and wait for someone else to do it, which is what happened. Cheney and Rumsfeld called the shots that day, it was them who finally scrambled fighter jets, not Bush.
i know all presidents are just a figurehead and work towards certain interests depending on who funded their campaigns and invested in them but i really believe Bush let others do a bulk of the work and make a lot of the decisions, at least his first term and most of his 2nd. hell, he even admitted he doesn't read about things or look into them, he just relies on those around him telling him what he needs to know. i think it was paul oneil who compalined about him being so uninterested and unquestioning
phew, rant over!
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
you started this thread, and you seem to be most concerned about obama's delayed response. do you care to comment on my article?
No not really, because what Bush did is in the past,and if anything I would think Obama would have learned something from all the mistakes that the Bush administration made,but apparently not. Then again Obama and Nepalatano wont even use the words Muslim,Islamic,Terrorist,War on terror.Do they even know who were at war with? :?
if you think what happened in the past has no bearing on current events then i can't help you. exactly how is the way obama handled this situation a mistake?? you can not even compare obama's reaction or lack thereof to bush's.
are you such a sheep that you need your leader/shepherd to guide you at the slightest possibility that something might be amiss?
by the way, exactly who are we at war with anyway? i don't know anymore. it just seems like if you are brown and from another country we will fight you....
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
by the way, exactly who are we at war with anyway? i don't know anymore. it just seems like if you are brown and from another country we will fight you....
even ainstain cant answer this
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you started this thread, and you seem to be most concerned about obama's delayed response. do you care to comment on my article?
No not really, because what Bush did is in the past,and if anything I would think Obama would have learned something from all the mistakes that the Bush administration made,but apparently not. Then again Obama and Nepalatano wont even use the words Muslim,Islamic,Terrorist,War on terror.Do they even know who were at war with? :?
if you think what happened in the past has no bearing on current events then i can't help you. exactly how is the way obama handled this situation a mistake?? you can not even compare obama's reaction or lack thereof to bush's.
are you such a sheep that you need your leader/shepherd to guide you at the slightest possibility that something might be amiss?
by the way, exactly who are we at war with anyway? i don't know anymore. it just seems like if you are brown and from another country we will fight you....
I never said that. But the facts are this. Yemen is a hot bed for terrorist and it's getting bigger by the day.This guys father who is a prominent figure in the banking world in NIgeria notified our embassy 5 times. He told them that he was very concerned that his son was becoming indoctranated by Muslim extremist and he was afraid of what he might do. The feds even had info on this guy,but did not share it with the CIA or the NCTC.(sound familiar) He should have been placed on the no fly list.
Also according to recent reports alqeda is claiming responsibility for this attempted attack. The two terrorist that planed this attack were released from gitmo and also went through a rehab program in Saudi Arabia.
I hope your not serious about your last statment,because that's absurd.
From what was being said this morning Janet Napolitano droped the ball on this one. Heard it on Cnn and Fox. Then the lady taking Larry Kings place was trying to blame it on Bush and making excuses for Janet.....
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
I know for myself I do not want to give up privacy for flying. I don't want to go through whole body scans. Where will it stop? By doing this crap you are giving in to them regardless, and the terrorists have won because they will have instilled fear. The correct answer is to just make the current system work, but no we have these knee-jerk reactions and only make things worse for those that obey the laws.
But that is what this country is becoming. Instead on focusing how to enforce what is already on the books we try to jam more more more down the citizens throats. It is happening in every aspect, not just terror prevention. Enforce the laws that are already made, make the programs works that are already made, hire competent people to do both. It is that simple.
Whatever... I'm just speaking from the heart, as were you. Didn't mean to be overly bombastic, and hope it didn't come across that way.
i don't need you to tell me what the problem is.
You can't handle the truth. You want me on that wall... you NEED me on that wall :twisted:
if i am part of the problem, then so are you because i do not see you doing anything about it other than pointing out the obvious.
I vote EVERY November, and for ALL federal offices and most state offices I vote Green, Libertarian, etc. instead of GOP or Dem. I spend significant amounts of time trying to get others to do the same. Don't know what else I'm supposed to do, but am open to suggestions.
Voting Libertarian is a great start to correcting the problem. We need to clean up Washington by getting some of these lifer Senators and Representatives out.
Voting Libertarian is a great start to correcting the problem. We need to clean up Washington by getting some of these lifer Senators and Representatives out.
that would be a start, but the last time i looked the libertarian message and platform is not exactly connecting with the population at large, so any libertarian is going to have a difficult time winning anything on a national level..
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I know for myself I do not want to give up privacy for flying. I don't want to go through whole body scans. Where will it stop? By doing this crap you are giving in to them regardless, and the terrorists have won because they will have instilled fear. The correct answer is to just make the current system work, but no we have these knee-jerk reactions and only make things worse for those that obey the laws.
But that is what this country is becoming. Instead on focusing how to enforce what is already on the books we try to jam more more more down the citizens throats. It is happening in every aspect, not just terror prevention. Enforce the laws that are already made, make the programs works that are already made, hire competent people to do both. It is that simple.
tell me, how would you go about "making the current system work"?
I never said that. But the facts are this. Yemen is a hot bed for terrorist and it's getting bigger by the day.This guys father who is a prominent figure in the banking world in NIgeria notified our embassy 5 times. He told them that he was very concerned that his son was becoming indoctranated by Muslim extremist and he was afraid of what he might do. The feds even had info on this guy,but did not share it with the CIA or the NCTC.(sound familiar) He should have been placed on the no fly list.
Also according to recent reports alqeda is claiming responsibility for this attempted attack. The two terrorist that planed this attack were released from gitmo and also went through a rehab program in Saudi Arabia.
I hope your not serious about your last statment,because that's absurd.
so, what does this have to do with your complaint about Obama not address the issue for 3 whole days...?
I know for myself I do not want to give up privacy for flying. I don't want to go through whole body scans. Where will it stop? By doing this crap you are giving in to them regardless, and the terrorists have won because they will have instilled fear. The correct answer is to just make the current system work, but no we have these knee-jerk reactions and only make things worse for those that obey the laws.
But that is what this country is becoming. Instead on focusing how to enforce what is already on the books we try to jam more more more down the citizens throats. It is happening in every aspect, not just terror prevention. Enforce the laws that are already made, make the programs works that are already made, hire competent people to do both. It is that simple.
tell me, how would you go about "making the current system work"?
I love how some think everything is so simple...
Really... if it was that easy to just "make the current system work", then we wouldn't have problems with health care, welfare, airport security, social security or just about any of the other big issues of today.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I never said that. But the facts are this. Yemen is a hot bed for terrorist and it's getting bigger by the day.This guys father who is a prominent figure in the banking world in NIgeria notified our embassy 5 times. He told them that he was very concerned that his son was becoming indoctranated by Muslim extremist and he was afraid of what he might do. The feds even had info on this guy,but did not share it with the CIA or the NCTC.(sound familiar) He should have been placed on the no fly list.
Also according to recent reports alqeda is claiming responsibility for this attempted attack. The two terrorist that planed this attack were released from gitmo and also went through a rehab program in Saudi Arabia.
I hope your not serious about your last statment,because that's absurd.
so, what does this have to do with your complaint about Obama not address the issue for 3 whole days...?
absolutely nothing! this is just another whiny bitch-and-moan-about-obama thread. we should just make one big bitch-about-obama thread so people can go gripe there and not derail other threads with their blind hatred of everything obama....
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I know for myself I do not want to give up privacy for flying. I don't want to go through whole body scans. Where will it stop? By doing this crap you are giving in to them regardless, and the terrorists have won because they will have instilled fear. The correct answer is to just make the current system work, but no we have these knee-jerk reactions and only make things worse for those that obey the laws.
But that is what this country is becoming. Instead on focusing how to enforce what is already on the books we try to jam more more more down the citizens throats. It is happening in every aspect, not just terror prevention. Enforce the laws that are already made, make the programs works that are already made, hire competent people to do both. It is that simple.
I understand the privacy concerns with full body scanners that project the image of an unclothed body, but new software can project a stylized image rather than an actual picture onto a computer screen, highlighting the area of the body where suspicious objects can be concealed.
Under the current system, how exactly would airport security detect chemicals hidden in a person's underwear?
I never said that. But the facts are this. Yemen is a hot bed for terrorist and it's getting bigger by the day.This guys father who is a prominent figure in the banking world in NIgeria notified our embassy 5 times. He told them that he was very concerned that his son was becoming indoctranated by Muslim extremist and he was afraid of what he might do. The feds even had info on this guy,but did not share it with the CIA or the NCTC.(sound familiar) He should have been placed on the no fly list.
Also according to recent reports alqeda is claiming responsibility for this attempted attack. The two terrorist that planed this attack were released from gitmo and also went through a rehab program in Saudi Arabia.
I hope your not serious about your last statment,because that's absurd.
so, what does this have to do with your complaint about Obama not address the issue for 3 whole days...?
absolutely nothing! this is just another whiny bitch-and-moan-about-obama thread. we should just make one big bitch-about-obama thread so people can go gripe there and not derail other threads with their blind hatred of everything obama....
:eh: Maybe you need to go back and read the thread titile. it has everything to do with it. :roll:
Comments
oh yeah, what the hell is the truth? if the government does not know it i am sure that you don't know it either...
it is not the president's job responsibility to keep a person off of a plane. that is the role of the airline employees as designated by the TSA.
you would want him to tell you something like "ummmm some guy tried to detonate a bomb on a plane five minutes ago....we don't have all of the information so feel free to speculate all you want...hell just make up your own story and put it on the news, because we don't have all of the details yet...he was from yemen, no wait from america...no it was maybe nigeria. he had a passport, no wait he didnt...erm...i will get back to you in a few days when i know something more concrete..." if that is what you want then when you get elected president then you can do it that way. until then deal with the fact that different presidents have different ways of doing things.
he spoke out against that cop because that professor was a friend of his. would you not defend your friend over something so stupid as that whole flap?? probably not...
the suspect will answer questions when the time is right, and according to our legal system. is that ok with you mr jack bauer?????
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
You two probably gave old W a hard time when he sat at the school after hearing about the attacks. It is the same type of thing right. They both took their time and waited. Right or wrong? Or since it was George Bush you gave him a hard time about it?
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
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10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
sorry dude, but you might recall that 9/11 was a successful attack warranting immediate speech from the chief executive. this was an attempt that failed miserably. no need to jump to conclusions and create a public panic. these are two completely different things entirely. its apples to oranges.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
maybe he wanted to finish reading my pet goat first?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
wrong, because 1 actually happened and killed people, the other was stopped before anything happened.
it's like saying a cop got a call about a rape happening and finished his lunch first is the same thing as a cop got a call about a rape suspect being apprehended and finished his lunch first
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
There were huge differences in play here... on September 11, 2001, events were still unfolding. The first crash into the World Trade Center could have been an aviation disaster and information was being sorted out. The second crash was a definate indication that we were facing something other than an accident.
The recent events were closed out. The passenger was subdued and in the custody of law enforcement. Had a second event been carried out withing an hour, the same conclusion would have been revealed... we were under a coordinated attack. And my best guess would be that action would have taken place. But, since this appeared to be a single act and the criminal was under arrest... things are different.
Hail, Hail!!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/2 ... 06307.html
The bellowing by Republicans over the Obama administration's supposedly lackadaisical response to the attempted bombing of an airliner over Detroit seems as much about political posturing as legitimate national security concerns.
How else to explain the GOP's relatively quiet reaction eight years ago to President George W. Bush's detached response after a similarly-botched terrorist attack?
On December 22, 2001, Richard Reid -- known more infamously as the shoe bomber -- failed in his attempt to blow up a Miami-bound jet using explosives hidden in his shoe. Coming less than four months after September 11, there already were deep concerns about a potential attack during the upcoming holiday break. Nevertheless, President Bush did not directly address the foiled plot for six days, according to an extensive review of newspaper records from that time period. And when he did, it was only in passing.
The day of the attempted attack, for example, the Associated Press reported that "White House officials" were monitoring the situation throughout the afternoon and that "President Bush received two briefings" on the matter while at Camp David for the holidays. Spokesman Scott McClellan, meanwhile, told reporters that administration officials were consulting with acting Massachusetts Gov. Jane Swift -- the plane Reid boarded made an emergency landing at Boston's Logan International Airport.
"The White House has been monitoring the situation since early on today," McClellan said, according to a Washington Post article published on December 23. The lead statement came from Swift, who lauded the "heroic acts" of "the flight attendants and passengers who helped subdue the suspect."
Little changed in the days ahead. The Washington Post, citing administration sources, also reported on Sunday December 23 that Bush would seek an increase in domestic security funds as the centerpiece of his 2003 budget request. On Monday December 24, CNN reported that Bush called members of the U.S. military stationed overseas to pass along holiday wishes. He was joined at Camp David that day by "the extended Bush clan... including the President's parents, the former President and the First Lady."
That same day, The New York Post quoted Thomas Kinton, interim executive director of the Massachusetts Port Authority, discussing how Reid was ultimately subdued. In addition, U.S. Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.), was quoted saying: "The message here... is that terrorists are going to hit us again." The final edition of USA Today that day reported that: "A White House spokesman said President Bush was monitoring the incident." As for an on-the-record comment, The Boston Globe noted that: "Bush has not issued any statements about the incident."
By Wednesday, December 26, Bush had left Camp David and was en route via Air Force One to his ranch in Crawford, Texas, according to ABC News. While there, another equally pressing national security concern entered his radar: Osama bin Laden released another videotape. On the scene in Crawford, then CNN correspondent Major Garrett was asked whether the administration had any reaction.
"No, Wolf," he said to host Wolf Blitzer. "The White House is really a bit hamstrung in this regard. First of all, it didn't expect the tape to be released. Second of all, many senior advisers are not here with the president at the Crawford ranch. Many of them are taking what the president considers to be a well-deserved vacation. And they're scattered around the country. They're trying to get in touch with each other."
By the end of the day, a response was issued -- but from a deputy press secretary and not the president himself. "The Bush administration says Osama bin Laden's latest statements are -- quote -- "terrorist propaganda,'" relayed Blitzer.
"That itself is a story, Wolf," Major Garrett remarked. "Because the White House really feels that now if it responded in any more formal way, any more lengthy way, it would be he elevating bin Laden in a way that's simply not in the United States's or its coalition partners' overall interest."
The real kicker came the next day -- Thursday December 27. CNN led off its report by noting that the president "decided to keep quiet" about "the latest bin Laden tape" in what was a "quiet day at the Western White House." Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, however, held a press conference in which he announced -- to the amazement of some observers -- that he'd "stopped chasing" reports on the terrorist leader.
In that press conference, Rumsfeld was also asked about Richard Reid -- now five days after the incident. "That's a matter that's in the hands of the law enforcement people and not the Department of Defense," he said. "And I don't have anything I would want to add."
It would be another day before Bush himself publicly mentioned the shoe bomber. In a press conference on December 28, in Crawford, the president said that incident was proof that "the country has been on alert."
"A stewardess on an American Airlines flight - or a flight attendant on an American Airlines flight - was vigilant, saw something amiss and responded," he added. "It's an indication that the culture of America has shifted to one of alertness, and I'm grateful for the flight attendant's response, as I'm sure the passengers on that airplane."
And so there you have it. The Bush White House downplayed not just the Reid incident (handing over lead responsibilities to federal law enforcement officials) but also consciously deflected attention away from bin Laden out of concern about elevating his latest antics.
In contrast to that response, the current White House has been quite active. The attempted bombing of the plane over Detroit occurred on December 25. That night, Obama convened a secure conference call with his Homeland Security and counter-terrorism advisers. He did the same the next morning and the morning after that. On the 27th, the president dispatched his press secretary, Robert Gibbs, and the head of the Department of Homeland Security, Janet Napolitano, to the Sunday shows to take questions on the matter. And on December 28, he gave a public statement while still on site in Hawaii.
Obama may not have worn a tie while giving those remarks (which has annoyed more than a few conservatives). But he did host a public address specifically on the situation (which Bush did not do). And while Napolitano may have gaffed during the first round of interviews by proclaiming that the system worked, it was nothing worse than what then-Attorney General John Ashcroft said about Richard Reid back in 2001.
"Throughout the war on terrorism, our military and intelligence officials have made a concerted effort to share appropriate information with the public in order to enlist their assistance," Ashcroft said, in remarks highlighted by ABC News. "We've asked citizens to be vigilant, to be alert to any possible threat. The success of this strategy was made clear by yesterday's indictment of Richard Reid, who may very well have succeeded in destroying American Airlines Flight Number 63, as the indictment charges, had it not been for the courage and attentiveness of the citizen passengers and crew."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
This is our fuckin' lives, Folks. "Not as bad as Bush" doesn't fuckin' cut it. Defending the Dem wing of the RubupliCrat party against the GOP wing doesn't fuckin' cut it. And vice-versa. We need to stop aligning, especially when it comes to our votes, out of hate and fear.
And, just to be clear, aside from the tangential issue of Napolitano being an utter tool from Day 1 of her tenure, I have no major problems with President Obama on this. No system can be 100% successful, and the real failures occurred overseas and outside of US gov't control. We need to crack the whip or block flights from these nations if they don't get their shit together, but it's ridiculous to get overly pissy with the President at this point.
MSG 1 & 2 2010
Montreal 2011
Missoula 2012
Seattle 2013
Denver 2014
Central Park NYC 2015
Sunrise 2016
Wrigley 2 2016
Seattle 1 2018
~~~~~~~
EV NYC 2 2011
RNDM NYC 2012
TOTD SF 2016
Highlights Of Last Spectrum Show
Mike DESTROYING in Seattle 2013
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" - HST
Instagram (great concert shots of many bands): concertaholic
isn't a moderate in themiddle? an extremist would be on one side or the other, so extremist moderate does not make any sense to me. isn't socialistic and libertarian an oxymoron? socialistic is on the left and libertarian is on the right, with those two terms you can't be both, rather its a contradiction. if you will read the thread you will see that people were blaming obama for taking 3 days to address this. i posted this article to show that their guy took 6 days to respond and not one republican made an issue that it took so long and the circumstances are completely different and back then it was much worse with everyone being so paranoid of being attacked again. so spare me your lamenting. it is how it is and the situation in this country is what it is. this "stop aligning" come together rah rah crap is not going to work. the republicans have made it clear that they are not on board for anything other than every man for themselves, lower taxes, no gay marriage, and increased military spending, and NO to anything the dems or obama suggests. they sit back and point fingers at the current president just like others sit back and point fingers at the prior one that fucked everything up so terribly.
if you are going to quote me, can you refute my article or not? or are you just going to sit back and complain about it?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
MSG 1 & 2 2010
Montreal 2011
Missoula 2012
Seattle 2013
Denver 2014
Central Park NYC 2015
Sunrise 2016
Wrigley 2 2016
Seattle 1 2018
~~~~~~~
EV NYC 2 2011
RNDM NYC 2012
TOTD SF 2016
Highlights Of Last Spectrum Show
Mike DESTROYING in Seattle 2013
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" - HST
Instagram (great concert shots of many bands): concertaholic
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/30/opini ... .html?_r=1
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
MSG 1 & 2 2010
Montreal 2011
Missoula 2012
Seattle 2013
Denver 2014
Central Park NYC 2015
Sunrise 2016
Wrigley 2 2016
Seattle 1 2018
~~~~~~~
EV NYC 2 2011
RNDM NYC 2012
TOTD SF 2016
Highlights Of Last Spectrum Show
Mike DESTROYING in Seattle 2013
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" - HST
Instagram (great concert shots of many bands): concertaholic
No not really, because what Bush did is in the past,and if anything I would think Obama would have learned something from all the mistakes that the Bush administration made,but apparently not. Then again Obama and Nepalatano wont even use the words Muslim,Islamic,Terrorist,War on terror.Do they even know who were at war with? :?
believe me, i think there's plenty to be critical of Obama on but this just seems like nit picking. it seems reasonable he wanted to have some information first before having a million questions cast at him and fox screaming al qaeda is trying to attack us and trying to whip everybody into a panic.
to me wanting to do some investigating before making a statement is far different from being told the country is under attack, not someone TRIED to do something and is in custody but we are currently being attacked, right now.
another key difference is Obama wasn't going to be doing any of the investigating himself, he was waiting for a report with information and facts so he had more to go on than speculation and 'i don't know' s when asked questions if he came right out and said it. Bush, on the other hand, DID have a role to play. he was told we were under attack, so it was HIS responsibility to decide what to do about it, after all, he is the decider, right?? and because he was a rich yuppy loaf with no real experience or sense he had no idea what to do, i'm not even sure i would know what to do but i wouldn't just sit around and wait for someone else to do it, which is what happened. Cheney and Rumsfeld called the shots that day, it was them who finally scrambled fighter jets, not Bush.
i know all presidents are just a figurehead and work towards certain interests depending on who funded their campaigns and invested in them but i really believe Bush let others do a bulk of the work and make a lot of the decisions, at least his first term and most of his 2nd. hell, he even admitted he doesn't read about things or look into them, he just relies on those around him telling him what he needs to know. i think it was paul oneil who compalined about him being so uninterested and unquestioning
phew, rant over!
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
if you think what happened in the past has no bearing on current events then i can't help you. exactly how is the way obama handled this situation a mistake?? you can not even compare obama's reaction or lack thereof to bush's.
are you such a sheep that you need your leader/shepherd to guide you at the slightest possibility that something might be amiss?
by the way, exactly who are we at war with anyway? i don't know anymore. it just seems like if you are brown and from another country we will fight you....
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I never said that. But the facts are this. Yemen is a hot bed for terrorist and it's getting bigger by the day.This guys father who is a prominent figure in the banking world in NIgeria notified our embassy 5 times. He told them that he was very concerned that his son was becoming indoctranated by Muslim extremist and he was afraid of what he might do. The feds even had info on this guy,but did not share it with the CIA or the NCTC.(sound familiar) He should have been placed on the no fly list.
Also according to recent reports alqeda is claiming responsibility for this attempted attack. The two terrorist that planed this attack were released from gitmo and also went through a rehab program in Saudi Arabia.
I hope your not serious about your last statment,because that's absurd.
I know for myself I do not want to give up privacy for flying. I don't want to go through whole body scans. Where will it stop? By doing this crap you are giving in to them regardless, and the terrorists have won because they will have instilled fear. The correct answer is to just make the current system work, but no we have these knee-jerk reactions and only make things worse for those that obey the laws.
But that is what this country is becoming. Instead on focusing how to enforce what is already on the books we try to jam more more more down the citizens throats. It is happening in every aspect, not just terror prevention. Enforce the laws that are already made, make the programs works that are already made, hire competent people to do both. It is that simple.
Voting Libertarian is a great start to correcting the problem. We need to clean up Washington by getting some of these lifer Senators and Representatives out.
that would be a start, but the last time i looked the libertarian message and platform is not exactly connecting with the population at large, so any libertarian is going to have a difficult time winning anything on a national level..
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
tell me, how would you go about "making the current system work"?
I love how some think everything is so simple...
so, what does this have to do with your complaint about Obama not address the issue for 3 whole days...?
Really... if it was that easy to just "make the current system work", then we wouldn't have problems with health care, welfare, airport security, social security or just about any of the other big issues of today.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I understand the privacy concerns with full body scanners that project the image of an unclothed body, but new software can project a stylized image rather than an actual picture onto a computer screen, highlighting the area of the body where suspicious objects can be concealed.
Under the current system, how exactly would airport security detect chemicals hidden in a person's underwear?
:eh: Maybe you need to go back and read the thread titile. it has everything to do with it. :roll: