can't take a team that loses to Boise State seriously, I'll have to be proven wrong but if Boise State can shut down Oregon, the best defense in college football can. Teams can't run against Ohio State. Oregon will need to pass to win
Best defense in college? Maybe on paper against a weak Big 10. And I am a big 10 fan, and as much as I hate OSU, I agree OSU has a pretty good defense, but not better than Florida, Alabama ,and South Carolina to name a few. I would not look past teams like Boise, Utah or TCU, I bet they could not only give OSU a run for thier money, but could beat them. See Oklahoma and Alabama in years past.
Utah beat a deflated Alabama team that had no interest playing in a Sugar Bowl after they lost their chance at a BCS title, while Utah was playing their Super Bowl. Big difference. The same thing will happen this year if Alabama loses Saturday. Hard to get a team to be focused when their dreams are crushed, while it's easy to get a team ready when they are fighting to prove themselves.
Reminds me of a game I saw last year. Texas nothing to play for and Ohio State everything to play for.
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
Reminds me of a game I saw last year. Texas nothing to play for and Ohio State everything to play for.
like if Texas won convincingly and Oklahoma won, Texas had a chance at AP votes for the National Championship because they each had 1 loss and Texas beat them earlier in the year, is that what you are remembering? I win
I'm sure Tressel knows a little bit more about football than you do, it's the reason he makes millions doing what he is doing. Tressel didn't sit on his lead last year vs Texas just holding onto the ball, he was throwing Pryor out at WR, switching QB's in the middle of the series and putting Ohio State in great position to win the game. The reason they lost it was because of a blown coverage by a guy who has blown so many of them he lost his starting position as a senior. Tressel is fine, and he won't be the reason Ohio State may lose the Rose Bowl.
I am fully aware we lost to Purdue, but we didn't lose in a way that Oregon may beat us. Purdue beat us in a way that is Oregon's weakness. I'm sure you watched the game so you know what I'm talking about. Oregon depends on the running game to fuel their offense as they are 7th in the country at rushing, while Ohio State is 5th in the country against the run. They are #2 against the run against rushes outside tackles. So Ohio State's biggest strength is stopping what Oregon needs to win.
The reason Ohio State lost to Purdue is 1) because of 5 turnovers, 2) Purdue is one of the top spread passing teams in the country in which their system is designed to eliminate Ohio State's biggest asset: the defensive pass rush. Purdue's game plan is to pay 50-55 times a game to recievers on 3-8 yard routs which doesn't allow the defensive pass rush time to get to the QB. Purdue ran a perfect gameplan to beat Ohio State.Purdue ran for a total of 20 yards in that win.
So, Oregon and Purdue are very different. If they want Massoli to pass 55 times to beat Ohio State, I like Ohio State's chances. Oregon has rushed for over 200 yards in every game they have played other than Boise. I'll bet anything you want they don't rush for 150 on Ohio State
Ohio State hasn't seen a running offense like Oregon either though. Their last several games have been against teams with anemic running offenses anyway. Do you remember the Navy game? That triple option run sure as hell worked fine against OSU for a while, and those guys aren't a fraction as talented as the Oregon running crew. They are going to move the ball. Not as much as they have, but they will. The question is will the Buckeyes be able to score enough to keep up. Pryor won't be lining up to receive passes this time, and the excuses you give for Texas don't do anything to erase the fact that USC did the exact same thing to the Buckeyes THIS season. It's not as simple as blown coverage. OSU has great defense, but they cannot rely on it to always stop an elite offense running a 2-minute drill. They've shown this many times over, any time they play a non-Big Ten team really. They need to be able to drive and score consistently against Oregon, and I simply don't see that happening the way they've played the last few weeks. The only way OSU has a shot is to have a 2-score lead late in the 4th qtr. Anything less and I guarantee Oregon drives to a win after a Tressel 4th and 1 punt from the 50.
I appreciate what Tressel has done for OSU, but change is needed. Like I said, he owns the Big Ten, but they need someone calling plays for the offense that can make this team competitive with elite programs.
Reminds me of a game I saw last year. Texas nothing to play for and Ohio State everything to play for.
like if Texas won convincingly and Oklahoma won, Texas had a chance at AP votes for the National Championship because they each had 1 loss and Texas beat them earlier in the year, is that what you are remembering? I win
No, I remember a Texas team that felt they should play for the title, and when they did not, could have cared less about playing OSU in another bowl.
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
I'm sure Tressel knows a little bit more about football than you do, it's the reason he makes millions doing what he is doing. Tressel didn't sit on his lead last year vs Texas just holding onto the ball, he was throwing Pryor out at WR, switching QB's in the middle of the series and putting Ohio State in great position to win the game. The reason they lost it was because of a blown coverage by a guy who has blown so many of them he lost his starting position as a senior. Tressel is fine, and he won't be the reason Ohio State may lose the Rose Bowl.
I am fully aware we lost to Purdue, but we didn't lose in a way that Oregon may beat us. Purdue beat us in a way that is Oregon's weakness. I'm sure you watched the game so you know what I'm talking about. Oregon depends on the running game to fuel their offense as they are 7th in the country at rushing, while Ohio State is 5th in the country against the run. They are #2 against the run against rushes outside tackles. So Ohio State's biggest strength is stopping what Oregon needs to win.
The reason Ohio State lost to Purdue is 1) because of 5 turnovers, 2) Purdue is one of the top spread passing teams in the country in which their system is designed to eliminate Ohio State's biggest asset: the defensive pass rush. Purdue's game plan is to pay 50-55 times a game to recievers on 3-8 yard routs which doesn't allow the defensive pass rush time to get to the QB. Purdue ran a perfect gameplan to beat Ohio State.Purdue ran for a total of 20 yards in that win.
So, Oregon and Purdue are very different. If they want Massoli to pass 55 times to beat Ohio State, I like Ohio State's chances. Oregon has rushed for over 200 yards in every game they have played other than Boise. I'll bet anything you want they don't rush for 150 on Ohio State
Ohio State hasn't seen a running offense like Oregon either though. Their last several games have been against teams with anemic running offenses anyway. Do you remember the Navy game? That triple option run sure as hell worked fine against OSU for a while, and those guys aren't a fraction as talented as the Oregon running crew. They are going to move the ball. Not as much as they have, but they will. The question is will the Buckeyes be able to score enough to keep up. Pryor won't be lining up to receive passes this time, and the excuses you give for Texas don't do anything to erase the fact that USC did the exact same thing to the Buckeyes THIS season. It's not as simple as blown coverage. OSU has great defense, but they cannot rely on it to always stop an elite offense running a 2-minute drill. They've shown this many times over, any time they play a non-Big Ten team really. They need to be able to drive and score consistently against Oregon, and I simply don't see that happening the way they've played the last few weeks. The only way OSU has a shot is to have a 2-score lead late in the 4th qtr. Anything less and I guarantee Oregon drives to a win after a Tressel 4th and 1 punt from the 50.
I appreciate what Tressel has done for OSU, but change is needed. Like I said, he owns the Big Ten, but they need someone calling plays for the offense that can make this team competitive with elite programs.
-Michigan was 16th in the Nation coming into their meeting when Ohio State held them to 80 yards total rushing
-Navy runs a triple option, which is not what Oregon runs. Oregon runs a spread option. Big difference.
triple option is run under center and depends on defensive tackles crashing down instead of pass rushing. Spread option depends on linebacks and especially defensive ends. Ohio State has 2 defensive ends that will be selected in the first round of the NFL draft when they decide it's time.
Reminds me of a game I saw last year. Texas nothing to play for and Ohio State everything to play for.
like if Texas won convincingly and Oklahoma won, Texas had a chance at AP votes for the National Championship because they each had 1 loss and Texas beat them earlier in the year, is that what you are remembering? I win
No, I remember a Texas team that felt they should play for the title, and when they did not, could have cared less about playing OSU in another bowl.
well the team I remember from last year was talking about how they were going to crush Ohio State and get the AP National Championship should Oklahoma beat Florida. And you can bet that the AP would have voted for them the same way the 2004 and 2003 BCS titles were split.
-Michigan was 16th in the Nation coming into their meeting when Ohio State held them to 80 yards total rushing
-Navy runs a triple option, which is not what Oregon runs. Oregon runs a spread option. Big difference.
triple option is run under center and depends on defensive tackles crashing down instead of pass rushing. Spread option depends on linebacks and especially defensive ends. Ohio State has 2 defensive ends that will be selected in the first round of the NFL draft when they decide it's time.
Doesn't matter. If one thing has been proven every time OSU takes the field, it's that fast, athletic teams will score. Florida and LSU ran all over Buckeye defenses that were every bit as strong. Texas and USC had no trouble scoring when they needed to. Those quick flips Oregon was doing last night are going to work just fine against OSU. Like I said, OSU will slow them down, but the Ducks are going to score plenty. This game rests on the offense's ability to sustain drives. If they play this game with their usual conservative field position philosophy, the Buckeyes will lose. You keep talking about how Massoli can't pass, can Pryor? He's never even ATTEMPTED 20 passes in a game and Saine and Herron are no James and Blount. If they can't keep moving, Oregon is going to wear the defense down. Another game of 40-20 minute time of possession split and the Buckeyes are goners. The defense cannot hold Oregon indefinitely. This game boils down to how the OSU offense looks. The D can keep them in it, but it cannot win it for them.
-Michigan was 16th in the Nation coming into their meeting when Ohio State held them to 80 yards total rushing
-Navy runs a triple option, which is not what Oregon runs. Oregon runs a spread option. Big difference.
triple option is run under center and depends on defensive tackles crashing down instead of pass rushing. Spread option depends on linebacks and especially defensive ends. Ohio State has 2 defensive ends that will be selected in the first round of the NFL draft when they decide it's time.
Doesn't matter. If one thing has been proven every time OSU takes the field, it's that fast, athletic teams will score. Florida and LSU ran all over Buckeye defenses that were every bit as strong. Texas and USC had no trouble scoring when they needed to. Those quick flips Oregon was doing last night are going to work just fine against OSU. Like I said, OSU will slow them down, but the Ducks are going to score plenty. This game rests on the offense's ability to sustain drives. If they play this game with their usual conservative field position philosophy, the Buckeyes will lose. You keep talking about how Massoli can't pass, can Pryor? He's never even ATTEMPTED 20 passes in a game and Saine and Herron are no James and Blount. If they can't keep moving, Oregon is going to wear the defense down. Another game of 40-20 minute time of possession split and the Buckeyes are goners. The defense cannot hold Oregon indefinitely. This game boils down to how the OSU offense looks. The D can keep them in it, but it cannot win it for them.
USC scored 18 points against Ohio State this year, 7 were given to them when Pryor threw an INT and USC took over on Ohio State' 3 yard line on the first drive of the game. 10 points isn't convincing to me.
Pryor doesn't need to pass because Oregon doesn't stop the run in a way that you need to throw more than 20 times a game.
also, Oregon runs alot of man to man because they blitz alot. Which is why they are 37th in the country in INT's.
Ohio State doesn't blitz often, gets pressure with their DL, and they are able to play zones and drop more guys into coverage. They are #1 in interceptions.
Ohio State wins games with their defensive line. The one team that was able to take that away from Ohio State beat them. Oregon's zone blocking isn't exactly how you stop a fast, athletic defensive line, see the Michigan game. And anyone who wants to tell me that Oregon has better athletes on their line than Michigan is crazy (I'll look it up after I post). Oregon and Michigan runt he same exact block schemes where linemen are asked to block in space. That isn't how to you beat Ohio State
How you beat them is to take your whole O-line out of it, which is what Purdue did. Quick short passes and hope for missed tackles by DB's
If you want to look at the USC game, look at it both ways. Both teams played USC at home, Ohio State did nothing against them, Oregon crushed USC this year. Over 600 yards of offense against a defence that held OSU under 300.
I would also argue the talent on defense at Oregon is better than UM right now, I am a UM fan, I watch them alot.
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
and plus, assuming Oregon will put up 30 points a game and Ohio State will need to score just to keep up is crazy. That 's like in basketball assuming the high flying Suns will put up 120 a night and teams just need to score to keep up- which isn't the case. The high flying Suns came into Cleveland and scored 29 points in the first half because of solid defense.
This isn't about basketball, but you can't assume an offense is going to do whatever they want. That is why they say defense wins championships. The game is set up for offenses to fail. Everything needs to go right in order to score touchdowns- that is why teams celebrate as much as they do after. Defense relies both on your team executing and the other team's shortcomings. This is why defense ALWAYS has an advantage. This is why you see teams speak of defense and not of scoring 50 points a night.
The Florida team of 2006 the LSU team of 2007 and the 2008 USC team all had higher rated defenses than Ohio State. Yes Ohio State's assets those years (aside from 2006) was their defense, but the other 3 teams still had better defenses. That is not the case in this Rose Bowl
If you want to look at the USC game, look at it both ways. Both teams played USC at home, Ohio State did nothing against them, Oregon crushed USC this year. Over 600 yards of offense against a defence that held OSU under 300.
I would also argue the talent on defense at Oregon is better than UM right now, I am a UM fan, I watch them alot.
I'm saying that Michigan has more talent on their O-Line than Oregon does just on recruiting alone. Michigan's defense is horrid, which is why Tressel just toyed with them for half the game. He knew he could just run it at them and they would give up first downs. No need to pass when you are doing whatever you want on the ground
Comparing opponents never works as teams prepare differently for them than they would for eachother. USC is a similar opponent but there are more factors which is why they play the games.
If you want to look at the USC game, look at it both ways. Both teams played USC at home, Ohio State did nothing against them, Oregon crushed USC this year. Over 600 yards of offense against a defence that held OSU under 300.
I would also argue the talent on defense at Oregon is better than UM right now, I am a UM fan, I watch them alot.
I'm saying that Michigan has more talent on their O-Line than Oregon does just on recruiting alone. Michigan's defense is horrid, which is why Tressel just toyed with them for half the game. He knew he could just run it at them and they would give up first downs. No need to pass when you are doing whatever you want on the ground
Comparing opponents never works as teams prepare differently for them than they would for eachother. USC is a similar opponent but there are more factors which is why they play the games.
I don't know about "toying" with them, Michigan had some horrible turnovers and played pretty bad, but in the 4th quarter, they were still in it. I admit OSU had the better team, but it was not a blow out by any means, and OSU was not overly impressive against one of the worst defenses in college. And no matter waht, if it came down to Pryor having to pass the ball, I would be worried.
Either way, I expect it to be a good game.
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
I don't know about "toying" with them, Michigan had some horrible turnovers and played pretty bad, but in the 4th quarter, they were still in it. I admit OSU had the better team, but it was not a blow out by any means, and OSU was not overly impressive against one of the worst defenses in college. And no matter waht, if it came down to Pryor having to pass the ball, I would be worried.
Either way, I expect it to be a good game.
it was close because Tressel doesn't blow teams out. He gets the lead and works the clock. It's like in 2007 when Chris Wells ran for 200 yards. yes the game looked close, but it really wasn't. I don't know how you can say Michigan had a shot this year. Yeah it was close in terms of the scoreboard, but never did Ohio State fear that Michigan would rally off 17 unanswered points in the 4th quarter when they more of less couldn't do much on the previous 15 drives.
I don't know about "toying" with them, Michigan had some horrible turnovers and played pretty bad, but in the 4th quarter, they were still in it. I admit OSU had the better team, but it was not a blow out by any means, and OSU was not overly impressive against one of the worst defenses in college. And no matter waht, if it came down to Pryor having to pass the ball, I would be worried.
Either way, I expect it to be a good game.
it was close because Tressel doesn't blow teams out. He gets the lead and works the clock. It's like in 2007 when Chris Wells ran for 200 yards. yes the game looked close, but it really wasn't. I don't know how you can say Michigan had a shot this year. Yeah it was close in terms of the scoreboard, but never did Ohio State fear that Michigan would rally off 17 unanswered points in the 4th quarter when they more of less couldn't do much on the previous 15 drives.
Tressel could blow teams out, there are a lot of times his teams can't blow them out when he should. UM had 9 less yards total offense and had a few drives where Forcier threw bad passes. One score and it is 21-17, OSU fans are thinking different. This is the first year UM started to run the spread with any form of compentance. As much as I dislike Richrod, I am curious to see how it looks next year, with more of the personel to run it correctly.
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
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Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
Rich Rod's offense wasn't the problem this year. It was his D, or lack there of. Until they fix that, they have serious issues. We saw what the big time programs did to Rich Rods O. Not sure a spread will work in the big ten agaist the big dogs.
If Ohio State can run the ball and control the clock agaist OR, they will have a chance. Tryor actually looked good agaist MI when there were running the read option running attack. If they can continue to do that, that will open up the deep pass. In the Mi game, they could have had 14 more points if they could have hit a couple of passes where the DB was toasted.
Wisconson is 18th in the country in rushing, they ran for 118 vs Ohio State. 29 yards in the 4th quarter when Ohio State was up by 2 scores
and they're a big ten team. big ten offensive play is inferior and what osu has done against big ten teams in a given season is irrelevant when discussing how they will show up on the big state against an ooc opponent. they've dominated everyone in the big ten for 4-5 straight seasons yet been inevtiably humiliated in big games against anyone else. and yes, i consider blowing leads against texas and usc with under 2 minutes twice in the same year to be humiliating.
and you keep whining about defense... how about some talk of osu's offense eh? i've said osu's defense is going to hold up ok against oregon, even if not great. you don't even try to dispute that the offense is sputtering, which is the problem.
and plus, assuming Oregon will put up 30 points a game and Ohio State will need to score just to keep up is crazy. That 's like in basketball assuming the high flying Suns will put up 120 a night and teams just need to score to keep up- which isn't the case. The high flying Suns came into Cleveland and scored 29 points in the first half because of solid defense.
This isn't about basketball, but you can't assume an offense is going to do whatever they want. That is why they say defense wins championships. The game is set up for offenses to fail. Everything needs to go right in order to score touchdowns- that is why teams celebrate as much as they do after. Defense relies both on your team executing and the other team's shortcomings. This is why defense ALWAYS has an advantage. This is why you see teams speak of defense and not of scoring 50 points a night.
The Florida team of 2006 the LSU team of 2007 and the 2008 USC team all had higher rated defenses than Ohio State. Yes Ohio State's assets those years (aside from 2006) was their defense, but the other 3 teams still had better defenses. That is not the case in this Rose Bowl
and my point was that those vaunted ohio state defenses got gouged for over 30 points in every single instance. you can wax poetic about how great osu's defense is against big ten offenses, but when they come to play the big dogs, those guys score plenty. why did those defenses get owned? becos the offense couldnt stay on the field long enough to let the D catch their breath. and this ohio state offense cannot stay on the firled long enough either. that is why they will lose, if they do. not becos oregon will score at will, but becos oregon will be able to drive and score and wear down the defense and ohio state probably will not.
Rich Rod's offense wasn't the problem this year. It was his D, or lack there of. Until they fix that, they have serious issues. We saw what the big time programs did to Rich Rods O. Not sure a spread will work in the big ten agaist the big dogs.
If Ohio State can run the ball and control the clock agaist OR, they will have a chance. Tryor actually looked good agaist MI when there were running the read option running attack. If they can continue to do that, that will open up the deep pass. In the Mi game, they could have had 14 more points if they could have hit a couple of passes where the DB was toasted.
that's exactly my whole point and all i've been saying this whole time... this game for ohio state comes down to how well their offense can keep moving and hang onto the ball. if they have another quarter full of 3-and-outs, they are going down in flames. if they can sustain drives, they can win. it's all about their offense. their defense will keep them in the game for a while, but the offense has to score to win it and allow the defense to hold it.
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Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
Rich Rod's offense wasn't the problem this year. It was his D, or lack there of. Until they fix that, they have serious issues. We saw what the big time programs did to Rich Rods O. Not sure a spread will work in the big ten agaist the big dogs.
If Ohio State can run the ball and control the clock agaist OR, they will have a chance. Tryor actually looked good agaist MI when there were running the read option running attack. If they can continue to do that, that will open up the deep pass. In the Mi game, they could have had 14 more points if they could have hit a couple of passes where the DB was toasted.
that's exactly my whole point and all i've been saying this whole time... this game for ohio state comes down to how well their offense can keep moving and hang onto the ball. if they have another quarter full of 3-and-outs, they are going down in flames. if they can sustain drives, they can win. it's all about their offense. their defense will keep them in the game for a while, but the offense has to score to win it and allow the defense to hold it.
you could say that about every team. jeez, lets go 3 and out all day and win the game. ain't gonna happen.
buckeyes are about power i and a little passing. if they can run the ball, they will be ok. if pryor has to throw 30+ times they are in deep do do. but don't write off the buckeyes just yet and say it's going to be a cakewalk for the ducks.
and plus, assuming Oregon will put up 30 points a game and Ohio State will need to score just to keep up is crazy. That 's like in basketball assuming the high flying Suns will put up 120 a night and teams just need to score to keep up- which isn't the case. The high flying Suns came into Cleveland and scored 29 points in the first half because of solid defense.
This isn't about basketball, but you can't assume an offense is going to do whatever they want. That is why they say defense wins championships. The game is set up for offenses to fail. Everything needs to go right in order to score touchdowns- that is why teams celebrate as much as they do after. Defense relies both on your team executing and the other team's shortcomings. This is why defense ALWAYS has an advantage. This is why you see teams speak of defense and not of scoring 50 points a night.
The Florida team of 2006 the LSU team of 2007 and the 2008 USC team all had higher rated defenses than Ohio State. Yes Ohio State's assets those years (aside from 2006) was their defense, but the other 3 teams still had better defenses. That is not the case in this Rose Bowl
and my point was that those vaunted ohio state defenses got gouged for over 30 points in every single instance. you can wax poetic about how great osu's defense is against big ten offenses, but when they come to play the big dogs, those guys score plenty. why did those defenses get owned? becos the offense couldnt stay on the field long enough to let the D catch their breath. and this ohio state offense cannot stay on the firled long enough either. that is why they will lose, if they do. not becos oregon will score at will, but becos oregon will be able to drive and score and wear down the defense and ohio state probably will not.
so the reason they couldn't do anything against USC last year, Florida and LSU was because of Tressel's playcalling? You should rematch the games if that is your thoughts. The problem was they couldn't stop the edges from getting to the QB which cuts your playbook in half. The same thing happened last year against Penn State. You can't call plays when you don't have time to run them.
When you can't protect your QB you:
1. limit your passing to 4-8 yard routs
2. limit your ability to run
3. become one dimensional
isn't that EXACTLY what happened to Ohio State in 2006, 2007, last year against USC and Penn State? It's called getting pressure without bringing linebackers. Ohio State has that advantage this year. That is why I'm saying Ohio State will win by 10 or more points this year.
I thought it was common knowledge amung Ohio State fans that Alex Boone cost Ohio State 3 big games
and in 2008, Ohio State had no business in the game against LSU. So I'm sorry your were embarrassed, but if you knew Ohio State and college football you couldn't have been that upset when a team that lost a Heisman QB, and 12 seniors, went to the BCS Championship game with a bunch of sophomores and juniors. Most logical Buckeye fans knew that team didn't belong in that game, but the were a beneficiary of circumstances. They got beat by a better team, not because of playcalling or Jim Tressel. Talent prevails sometimes
Rich Rod's offense wasn't the problem this year. It was his D, or lack there of. Until they fix that, they have serious issues. We saw what the big time programs did to Rich Rods O. Not sure a spread will work in the big ten agaist the big dogs.
If Ohio State can run the ball and control the clock agaist OR, they will have a chance. Tryor actually looked good agaist MI when there were running the read option running attack. If they can continue to do that, that will open up the deep pass. In the Mi game, they could have had 14 more points if they could have hit a couple of passes where the DB was toasted.
that's exactly my whole point and all i've been saying this whole time... this game for ohio state comes down to how well their offense can keep moving and hang onto the ball. if they have another quarter full of 3-and-outs, they are going down in flames. if they can sustain drives, they can win. it's all about their offense. their defense will keep them in the game for a while, but the offense has to score to win it and allow the defense to hold it.
you could say that about every team. jeez, lets go 3 and out all day and win the game. ain't gonna happen.
buckeyes are about power i and a little passing. if they can run the ball, they will be ok. if pryor has to throw 30+ times they are in deep do do. but don't write off the buckeyes just yet and say it's going to be a cakewalk for the ducks.
where have i ever written off the buckeyes or said it would be a cakewalk for the ducks? i've just said ohio state has their work cut out for them.
and yes, you can say that about every team, but few teams have struggled with that more than the buckeyes this season, especially bcs-bound teams.
so the reason they couldn't do anything against USC last year, Florida and LSU was because of Tressel's playcalling? You should rematch the games if that is your thoughts. The problem was they couldn't stop the edges from getting to the QB which cuts your playbook in half. The same thing happened last year against Penn State. You can't call plays when you don't have time to run them.
When you can't protect your QB you:
1. limit your passing to 4-8 yard routs
2. limit your ability to run
3. become one dimensional
isn't that EXACTLY what happened to Ohio State in 2006, 2007, last year against USC and Penn State? It's called getting pressure without bringing linebackers. Ohio State has that advantage this year. That is why I'm saying Ohio State will win by 10 or more points this year.
as you pointed out, purdue won doing exactly those things. and the teams osu lost to also did those things very effectively, which nullified their defensive prowess. why can't ohio state do them, especially with the talent they have? but they've never been able to run an effective passing game... and they are going to need to against oregon. this isn't michigan, they need to be able to do more than rushes up the middle in the hopes the defense will wear out. it wasn't just playcalling, it's an entire offensive scheme/philosophy that has been unable to mount a decent passing attack for years.
I thought it was common knowledge amung Ohio State fans that Alex Boone cost Ohio State 3 big games
and in 2008, Ohio State had no business in the game against LSU. So I'm sorry your were embarrassed, but if you knew Ohio State and college football you couldn't have been that upset when a team that lost a Heisman QB, and 12 seniors, went to the BCS Championship game with a bunch of sophomores and juniors. Most logical Buckeye fans knew that team didn't belong in that game, but the were a beneficiary of circumstances. They got beat by a better team, not because of playcalling or Jim Tressel. Talent prevails sometimes
i agree with that, but the point is that ohio state in recent years has played down to opponents, rather than playing up to them. the season before lsu everyone said florida did not belong in the bcs game and in all honesty osu had them outclassed in terms of talent and all else. but florida showed up as underdogs ready to play and they humiliated the buckeyes. osu did not do that to lsu. sure they were outgunned, but so was florida the previous season and they delivered. the buckeyes played as well as could be expected against lsu in a year they really didnt belong, but that doesnt change the fact that they regularly fall flat against elite opponents.
so the reason they couldn't do anything against USC last year, Florida and LSU was because of Tressel's playcalling? You should rematch the games if that is your thoughts. The problem was they couldn't stop the edges from getting to the QB which cuts your playbook in half. The same thing happened last year against Penn State. You can't call plays when you don't have time to run them.
When you can't protect your QB you:
1. limit your passing to 4-8 yard routs
2. limit your ability to run
3. become one dimensional
isn't that EXACTLY what happened to Ohio State in 2006, 2007, last year against USC and Penn State? It's called getting pressure without bringing linebackers. Ohio State has that advantage this year. That is why I'm saying Ohio State will win by 10 or more points this year.
as you pointed out, purdue won doing exactly those things. and the teams osu lost to also did those things very effectively, which nullified their defensive prowess. why can't ohio state do them, especially with the talent they have? but they've never been able to run an effective passing game... and they are going to need to against oregon. this isn't michigan, they need to be able to do more than rushes up the middle in the hopes the defense will wear out. it wasn't just playcalling, it's an entire offensive scheme/philosophy that has been unable to mount a decent passing attack for years.
because Massoli isn't a QB who can throw 50 times a game an be affective. The reason Massoli has success is because they run the ball so well that teams need to play the run. Purdue has a history of guys who are throwers- that's why it's called Quarterback U. Purdue is built to throw it 50 times a game. Painter did it, Brees did it, Orton did it and now Elliot does it. Every year Purdue's QB is top 10 in the country in passing attempts per game. Elliot had 433 attempts this year, and Painter was ranked 3rd and 4th in the nation the last 2 years with over 500 attempts.
That is the difference. Purdue is built for that type of game and they have the system and QB's to do it. Masoli is built for a spread option, not to throw 75% of the time. It's like asking Pryor to do it, either you have the guy to do it or you don't. This is why Cincinnati would beat Ohio State, they run the exact offense Purdue runs.
Purdue is built to play to Ohio State's main weakness this season on defense (DB tackling) and play away from Ohio State's biggest overall strength (defensive line pass rush). Oregon is not.
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why can't ohio state do them, especially with the talent they have? but they've never been able to run an effective passing game...
because Massoli isn't a QB who can throw 50 times a game an be affective. The reason Massoli has success is because they run the ball so well that teams need to play the run. Purdue has a history of guys who are throwers- that's why it's called Quarterback U. Purdue is built to throw it 50 times a game. Painter did it, Brees did it, Orton did it and now Elliot does it. Every year Purdue's QB is top 10 in the country in passing attempts per game. Elliot had 433 attempts this year, and Painter was ranked 3rd and 4th in the nation the last 2 years with over 500 attempts.
That is the difference. Purdue is built for that type of game and they have the system and QB's to do it. Masoli is built for a spread option, not to throw 75% of the time. It's like asking Pryor to do it, either you have the guy to do it or you don't. This is why Cincinnati would beat Ohio State, they run the exact offense Purdue runs.
Purdue is built to play to Ohio State's main weakness this season on defense (DB tackling) and play away from Ohio State's biggest overall strength (defensive line pass rush). Oregon is not.
who gives a shit about massoli and what he can do? i asked why ohio state cannot mount a passing attack.
they've never been able to run an effective passing game
can you define never?
not one season since tressel has been head coach other than troy smith's heisman year, which had as much to do with a weak big ten as anything else. hell, you can even take it back to cooper and the bellisari years.
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Reminds me of a game I saw last year. Texas nothing to play for and Ohio State everything to play for.
like if Texas won convincingly and Oklahoma won, Texas had a chance at AP votes for the National Championship because they each had 1 loss and Texas beat them earlier in the year, is that what you are remembering?
Ohio State hasn't seen a running offense like Oregon either though. Their last several games have been against teams with anemic running offenses anyway. Do you remember the Navy game? That triple option run sure as hell worked fine against OSU for a while, and those guys aren't a fraction as talented as the Oregon running crew. They are going to move the ball. Not as much as they have, but they will. The question is will the Buckeyes be able to score enough to keep up. Pryor won't be lining up to receive passes this time, and the excuses you give for Texas don't do anything to erase the fact that USC did the exact same thing to the Buckeyes THIS season. It's not as simple as blown coverage. OSU has great defense, but they cannot rely on it to always stop an elite offense running a 2-minute drill. They've shown this many times over, any time they play a non-Big Ten team really. They need to be able to drive and score consistently against Oregon, and I simply don't see that happening the way they've played the last few weeks. The only way OSU has a shot is to have a 2-score lead late in the 4th qtr. Anything less and I guarantee Oregon drives to a win after a Tressel 4th and 1 punt from the 50.
I appreciate what Tressel has done for OSU, but change is needed. Like I said, he owns the Big Ten, but they need someone calling plays for the offense that can make this team competitive with elite programs.
No, I remember a Texas team that felt they should play for the title, and when they did not, could have cared less about playing OSU in another bowl.
-Michigan was 16th in the Nation coming into their meeting when Ohio State held them to 80 yards total rushing
-Navy runs a triple option, which is not what Oregon runs. Oregon runs a spread option. Big difference.
triple option is run under center and depends on defensive tackles crashing down instead of pass rushing. Spread option depends on linebacks and especially defensive ends. Ohio State has 2 defensive ends that will be selected in the first round of the NFL draft when they decide it's time.
well the team I remember from last year was talking about how they were going to crush Ohio State and get the AP National Championship should Oklahoma beat Florida. And you can bet that the AP would have voted for them the same way the 2004 and 2003 BCS titles were split.
Doesn't matter. If one thing has been proven every time OSU takes the field, it's that fast, athletic teams will score. Florida and LSU ran all over Buckeye defenses that were every bit as strong. Texas and USC had no trouble scoring when they needed to. Those quick flips Oregon was doing last night are going to work just fine against OSU. Like I said, OSU will slow them down, but the Ducks are going to score plenty. This game rests on the offense's ability to sustain drives. If they play this game with their usual conservative field position philosophy, the Buckeyes will lose. You keep talking about how Massoli can't pass, can Pryor? He's never even ATTEMPTED 20 passes in a game and Saine and Herron are no James and Blount. If they can't keep moving, Oregon is going to wear the defense down. Another game of 40-20 minute time of possession split and the Buckeyes are goners. The defense cannot hold Oregon indefinitely. This game boils down to how the OSU offense looks. The D can keep them in it, but it cannot win it for them.
USC scored 18 points against Ohio State this year, 7 were given to them when Pryor threw an INT and USC took over on Ohio State' 3 yard line on the first drive of the game. 10 points isn't convincing to me.
Pryor doesn't need to pass because Oregon doesn't stop the run in a way that you need to throw more than 20 times a game.
Ohio State doesn't blitz often, gets pressure with their DL, and they are able to play zones and drop more guys into coverage. They are #1 in interceptions.
Ohio State wins games with their defensive line. The one team that was able to take that away from Ohio State beat them. Oregon's zone blocking isn't exactly how you stop a fast, athletic defensive line, see the Michigan game. And anyone who wants to tell me that Oregon has better athletes on their line than Michigan is crazy (I'll look it up after I post). Oregon and Michigan runt he same exact block schemes where linemen are asked to block in space. That isn't how to you beat Ohio State
How you beat them is to take your whole O-line out of it, which is what Purdue did. Quick short passes and hope for missed tackles by DB's
I would also argue the talent on defense at Oregon is better than UM right now, I am a UM fan, I watch them alot.
This isn't about basketball, but you can't assume an offense is going to do whatever they want. That is why they say defense wins championships. The game is set up for offenses to fail. Everything needs to go right in order to score touchdowns- that is why teams celebrate as much as they do after. Defense relies both on your team executing and the other team's shortcomings. This is why defense ALWAYS has an advantage. This is why you see teams speak of defense and not of scoring 50 points a night.
The Florida team of 2006 the LSU team of 2007 and the 2008 USC team all had higher rated defenses than Ohio State. Yes Ohio State's assets those years (aside from 2006) was their defense, but the other 3 teams still had better defenses. That is not the case in this Rose Bowl
I'm saying that Michigan has more talent on their O-Line than Oregon does just on recruiting alone. Michigan's defense is horrid, which is why Tressel just toyed with them for half the game. He knew he could just run it at them and they would give up first downs. No need to pass when you are doing whatever you want on the ground
Comparing opponents never works as teams prepare differently for them than they would for eachother. USC is a similar opponent but there are more factors which is why they play the games.
I don't know about "toying" with them, Michigan had some horrible turnovers and played pretty bad, but in the 4th quarter, they were still in it. I admit OSU had the better team, but it was not a blow out by any means, and OSU was not overly impressive against one of the worst defenses in college. And no matter waht, if it came down to Pryor having to pass the ball, I would be worried.
Either way, I expect it to be a good game.
it was close because Tressel doesn't blow teams out. He gets the lead and works the clock. It's like in 2007 when Chris Wells ran for 200 yards. yes the game looked close, but it really wasn't. I don't know how you can say Michigan had a shot this year. Yeah it was close in terms of the scoreboard, but never did Ohio State fear that Michigan would rally off 17 unanswered points in the 4th quarter when they more of less couldn't do much on the previous 15 drives.
Tressel could blow teams out, there are a lot of times his teams can't blow them out when he should. UM had 9 less yards total offense and had a few drives where Forcier threw bad passes. One score and it is 21-17, OSU fans are thinking different. This is the first year UM started to run the spread with any form of compentance. As much as I dislike Richrod, I am curious to see how it looks next year, with more of the personel to run it correctly.
If Ohio State can run the ball and control the clock agaist OR, they will have a chance. Tryor actually looked good agaist MI when there were running the read option running attack. If they can continue to do that, that will open up the deep pass. In the Mi game, they could have had 14 more points if they could have hit a couple of passes where the DB was toasted.
and they're a big ten team. big ten offensive play is inferior and what osu has done against big ten teams in a given season is irrelevant when discussing how they will show up on the big state against an ooc opponent. they've dominated everyone in the big ten for 4-5 straight seasons yet been inevtiably humiliated in big games against anyone else. and yes, i consider blowing leads against texas and usc with under 2 minutes twice in the same year to be humiliating.
and you keep whining about defense... how about some talk of osu's offense eh? i've said osu's defense is going to hold up ok against oregon, even if not great. you don't even try to dispute that the offense is sputtering, which is the problem.
and my point was that those vaunted ohio state defenses got gouged for over 30 points in every single instance. you can wax poetic about how great osu's defense is against big ten offenses, but when they come to play the big dogs, those guys score plenty. why did those defenses get owned? becos the offense couldnt stay on the field long enough to let the D catch their breath. and this ohio state offense cannot stay on the firled long enough either. that is why they will lose, if they do. not becos oregon will score at will, but becos oregon will be able to drive and score and wear down the defense and ohio state probably will not.
that's exactly my whole point and all i've been saying this whole time... this game for ohio state comes down to how well their offense can keep moving and hang onto the ball. if they have another quarter full of 3-and-outs, they are going down in flames. if they can sustain drives, they can win. it's all about their offense. their defense will keep them in the game for a while, but the offense has to score to win it and allow the defense to hold it.
you could say that about every team. jeez, lets go 3 and out all day and win the game. ain't gonna happen.
buckeyes are about power i and a little passing. if they can run the ball, they will be ok. if pryor has to throw 30+ times they are in deep do do. but don't write off the buckeyes just yet and say it's going to be a cakewalk for the ducks.
so the reason they couldn't do anything against USC last year, Florida and LSU was because of Tressel's playcalling? You should rematch the games if that is your thoughts. The problem was they couldn't stop the edges from getting to the QB which cuts your playbook in half. The same thing happened last year against Penn State. You can't call plays when you don't have time to run them.
When you can't protect your QB you:
1. limit your passing to 4-8 yard routs
2. limit your ability to run
3. become one dimensional
isn't that EXACTLY what happened to Ohio State in 2006, 2007, last year against USC and Penn State? It's called getting pressure without bringing linebackers. Ohio State has that advantage this year. That is why I'm saying Ohio State will win by 10 or more points this year.
and in 2008, Ohio State had no business in the game against LSU. So I'm sorry your were embarrassed, but if you knew Ohio State and college football you couldn't have been that upset when a team that lost a Heisman QB, and 12 seniors, went to the BCS Championship game with a bunch of sophomores and juniors. Most logical Buckeye fans knew that team didn't belong in that game, but the were a beneficiary of circumstances. They got beat by a better team, not because of playcalling or Jim Tressel. Talent prevails sometimes
where have i ever written off the buckeyes or said it would be a cakewalk for the ducks? i've just said ohio state has their work cut out for them.
and yes, you can say that about every team, but few teams have struggled with that more than the buckeyes this season, especially bcs-bound teams.
as you pointed out, purdue won doing exactly those things. and the teams osu lost to also did those things very effectively, which nullified their defensive prowess. why can't ohio state do them, especially with the talent they have? but they've never been able to run an effective passing game... and they are going to need to against oregon. this isn't michigan, they need to be able to do more than rushes up the middle in the hopes the defense will wear out. it wasn't just playcalling, it's an entire offensive scheme/philosophy that has been unable to mount a decent passing attack for years.
i agree with that, but the point is that ohio state in recent years has played down to opponents, rather than playing up to them. the season before lsu everyone said florida did not belong in the bcs game and in all honesty osu had them outclassed in terms of talent and all else. but florida showed up as underdogs ready to play and they humiliated the buckeyes. osu did not do that to lsu. sure they were outgunned, but so was florida the previous season and they delivered. the buckeyes played as well as could be expected against lsu in a year they really didnt belong, but that doesnt change the fact that they regularly fall flat against elite opponents.
because Massoli isn't a QB who can throw 50 times a game an be affective. The reason Massoli has success is because they run the ball so well that teams need to play the run. Purdue has a history of guys who are throwers- that's why it's called Quarterback U. Purdue is built to throw it 50 times a game. Painter did it, Brees did it, Orton did it and now Elliot does it. Every year Purdue's QB is top 10 in the country in passing attempts per game. Elliot had 433 attempts this year, and Painter was ranked 3rd and 4th in the nation the last 2 years with over 500 attempts.
That is the difference. Purdue is built for that type of game and they have the system and QB's to do it. Masoli is built for a spread option, not to throw 75% of the time. It's like asking Pryor to do it, either you have the guy to do it or you don't. This is why Cincinnati would beat Ohio State, they run the exact offense Purdue runs.
Purdue is built to play to Ohio State's main weakness this season on defense (DB tackling) and play away from Ohio State's biggest overall strength (defensive line pass rush). Oregon is not.
can you define never?
who gives a shit about massoli and what he can do? i asked why ohio state cannot mount a passing attack.
not one season since tressel has been head coach other than troy smith's heisman year, which had as much to do with a weak big ten as anything else. hell, you can even take it back to cooper and the bellisari years.