I don't know about that. I don't think they trade him for nothing.
He still has value. He's still one of the best defenders in the game, young, and has 4 more years under contract. There's always a coach or gm who thinks they can fix certain players. Might take a 3 team deal, but I think he gets moved.
How about Mattise yesterday? The Olympics is a great experience for him. 2 for 3 from three point range too. He'll end up being one of the better 3 and D guys in the league if he improves his % a bit this offseason. Really hope he's not included a Simmons trade...
How about Mattise yesterday? The Olympics is a great experience for him. 2 for 3 from three point range too. He'll end up being one of the better 3 and D guys in the league if he improves his % a bit this offseason. Really hope he's not included a Simmons trade...
Yeah he can absolutely in no way at all be included in a Simmons trade.
How about Mattise yesterday? The Olympics is a great experience for him. 2 for 3 from three point range too. He'll end up being one of the better 3 and D guys in the league if he improves his % a bit this offseason. Really hope he's not included a Simmons trade...
You mean the guy who is a worse version of the guy everyone wants to trade? Always best to be a backup in Philly.
I get that they almost are forced to trade Simmons now, but you have to make sure your team is going be better if do you trade him and that is going to be quite difficult to do. I think if you trade Simmons you are going to need 3 new starters. You sure as heck can't have a starting backcourt of Damian Lilliard and Seth Curry. That would be brutal defensively. I think Curry needs to be your 6th man. He was exposed defensively in the playoffs. So if you trade Simmons you got Embiid and Harris and need a whole lot around those two.
How about Mattise yesterday? The Olympics is a great experience for him. 2 for 3 from three point range too. He'll end up being one of the better 3 and D guys in the league if he improves his % a bit this offseason. Really hope he's not included a Simmons trade...
Yeah he can absolutely in no way at all be included in a Simmons trade.
I'd hate to give up Maxey too but of the two, he's more expendable because you'd still have an elite perimeter defender with Mattise.
Odds are they might have to give up both which would suck.
How about Mattise yesterday? The Olympics is a great experience for him. 2 for 3 from three point range too. He'll end up being one of the better 3 and D guys in the league if he improves his % a bit this offseason. Really hope he's not included a Simmons trade...
Yeah he can absolutely in no way at all be included in a Simmons trade.
I'd hate to give up Maxey too but of the two, he's more expendable because you'd still have an elite perimeter defender with Mattise.
Odds are they might have to give up both which would suck.
Ya see, I don't know about that and that sounds like ourselves selling ourselves short. Ben Simmons is a really, really good basketball player. I don't think you'd necessarily have to give up either/both to get something good. Otherwise, I think Simmons is here.
How about Mattise yesterday? The Olympics is a great experience for him. 2 for 3 from three point range too. He'll end up being one of the better 3 and D guys in the league if he improves his % a bit this offseason. Really hope he's not included a Simmons trade...
Yeah he can absolutely in no way at all be included in a Simmons trade.
I'd hate to give up Maxey too but of the two, he's more expendable because you'd still have an elite perimeter defender with Mattise.
Odds are they might have to give up both which would suck.
Ya see, I don't know about that and that sounds like ourselves selling ourselves short. Ben Simmons is a really, really good basketball player. I don't think you'd necessarily have to give up either/both to get something good. Otherwise, I think Simmons is here.
I hope I'm wrong! Just saying, it wouldn't surprise me if they swing for the fences for a Lillard mega deal and give up a haul like that plus draft picks. Brooklyn wanted something similar 6 months ago and his value hasn't exactly gone up since then...
For Philadelphia specifically, it would be hard to draw up a better fit to play next to Joel Embiid in Philadelphia's quest to win a title. Lillard is basically an elite offense by himself, a pull-up shooter with preposterous range who consistently draws hard traps and attention out to halfcourt, a pick-and-roll monster who punishes the slightest misread from an opposing defense. Last year was actually a down year for Lillard as a pull-up shooter, and he still managed to make over 37 percent of his 8.1 pull-up threes attempted per game, and when teams sell out too hard to stop his outside shooting, Lillard will go by guys off-the-dribble and either score or get fouled on his way to the rim. He's one of the league's elite free-throw shooters, ranking in the top 10 by volume and second overall in efficiency last season.
Lillard would be a dream partner for Embiid, dragging defenders away from the paint with his shooting and capable of creating easier looks for Embiid with the attention he draws out of the pick-and-roll. It would force Embiid to do more work on the move, but Embiid showed he was willing to do that during his brief time with Jimmy Butler in 2018-19. On the other end of the partnership, Lillard having more open looks created for him when teams send doubles at Embiid would create more catch-and-shoot looks and closeout attacking opportunities. It would take some time for both guys to get comfortable in a new setup, but the apex version of Embiid/Lillard would be a nightmare for opponents to deal with.
A lot of the value Embiid would provide for Lillard, mind you, would be on the defensive end. Lillard has graded out as one of the least impactful defenders in the league pretty consistently in Portland, a fact that has contributed to the Blazers' inability to rise past their current place in the Western Conference playoff picture. He's far from the only culprit, but he has been hunted by opponents even in recent Team USA exhibition games, and could stand to play with a dominant defensive anchor like Embiid. The big guy could clean up for his issues at the point of attack and allow him to save some energy for the defensive end by carrying the offense the way Sixers fans have already seen him do.
That brings us to price, which is going to be significant no matter where Lillard (theoretically) gets sent. It is going to take most of Philadelphia's war chest to get a deal done, and in all likelihood, it would fundamentally change how the Sixers look and function to go after Lillard.
Ben Simmons and (I presume) an assortment of first-round picks will be the starting point, but I don't think it will be the endpoint, both because of recent star-trade precedent and Simmons' hard-to-place value on the open market. The James Harden trade talks, where Houston demanded picks and young players on top of Ben Simmons, are a good frame of reference, as is Milwaukee's pick-heavy trade to acquire Jrue Holiday last offseason. The Blazers would almost certainly come into talks asking for Simmons, every draft pick and swap that isn't nailed down, and Philadelphia's most promising young players, Tyrese Maxey and Matisse Thybulle.
Where would or could the Sixers draw the line? They balked at add-ons in Harden talks last summer, backing Maxey to go on to big things in the future. Bringing an in-his-prime point guard to the team might change that calculus, or it could give them the incentive to try to hold on to Maxey and develop him as Lillard's understudy. You could also argue that Thybulle is even more valuable in a Simmons-less future built around Lillard, where he'd potentially slide into the starting lineup immediately and take on the top defensive assignments every night. On the other hand, he's a familiar face as a guy who played his college ball in the Pacific Northwest, and a player who can help Portland try to continue winning games right now even as they rebuild in a post-Lillard future. Trading most (or at least some) of your capable depth players would be a tough pill to swallow on top of the rest, but trading for a high-level offensive star is the sort of opportunity you do that for.
(A team with Embiid and Lillard might initially lack depth, but that is the sort of partnership and situation that can draw buyout players and veteran free agents to the team on cheaper deals to go ring-chasing. Depth can be found and made up for, star power cannot.)
The most important factor, one could argue, is exactly where Lillard wants to end up. As we have seen in other recent examples, player preference is a huge driver of these star deals, with franchises wary to cross powerful agents and players who are forcing their way out. That hasn't done much to undercut trade value, and given Lillard's hero status in Portland, the Blazers would almost certainly get raked over the coals by their own fanbase if they traded Lillard against his wishes just because.
Would Lillard want to come to Philly and play with Embiid? That's an open question at the moment, and it should be noted that he is an Oakland, California native who has never played further east than the state of Utah, where he played his college ball at Weber State. East Coast living might not be for him, though it would make sense from a basketball perspective for Lillard to seek an opportunity in the Eastern Conference to escape the meat grinder of his current conference.
Ultimately, Lillard wants to win, and a deal to the Sixers would provide him an A-list partner to play with, a softer conference to attack in the regular season, and a chance to potentially draw more talent moving forward. It would cost the Sixers quite a bit, especially because Lillard is locked up and under contract for four seasons, free agency not a concern until 2025. But that's a feature for Philadelphia, not a bug, ensuring their most important players are here well into the future.
"I haven't made any firm decision on what my future will be," Lillard said following Team USA practice.
When asked about the start of next season, Lillard said he "expects to be" in a Portland uniform, per Marc J. Spears of ESPN.
A report earlier Friday from TrueHoop's Henry Abbott stated that the 31-year-old guard would ask for a trade, citing a source close to Lillard.
While Lillard rebuffed the notion that he was seeking an immediate exit, the six-time All-Star admitted he doesn't believe the roster can compete for a title as constructed, even with a new coach in Chauncey Billups.
"I don't disagree that maybe Chauncey can change our team and make us a better team," Lillard said, courtesy of USA Today's Mark Medina. "But I think if you look at our team as it is, I don't see how you say, 'This is a championship team, we just need a new coach.'"
His assessment of the squad runs contrary to that of team president Neil Olshey. Following former head coach Terry Stotts' departure, Olshey said Portland's playoff elimination and its poor defense last season "was not a product of the roster," according to Dan Feldman of NBC Sports.
Lillard confirmed that he would speak to Olshey and Billups in a meeting in Las Vegas soon, adding, "There's a conversation to be had," according to Begley.
Lillard has spent all nine seasons of his career in Portland since the team drafted him sixth overall in 2012. The Weber State product's future with the team has been cast into doubt since the Trail Blazers set out to replace Stotts, whom they mutually parted ways with in June.
Earlier in July, Lillard said that words were being put in his mouth amid a flurry of trade rumors. That came weeks after reports that the Trail Blazers' coaching search and concern over their ability to contend for a title could push Lillard to leave Portland.
Yeah he’s basically saying make big moves or I’m out. And I really don’t see how they make any big moves. Only thing that sucks about it is that Morey will probably have to hang on to Ben longer now because Dame will probably hold out as long as possible. Maybe another James Harden situation. Don’t think he makes it to the deadline though.
I enjoyed watching Giannis and the Bucks win. I'm not anti-process but jeez I keep seeing ex-Sixers play crucial roles in helping all these teams win championships or get to the finals. I think it's not the "process" that is the problem - it's all the ridiculous decisions along the way.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Except Hinkie sold the idea that you had to have lottery picks to win Championships. And all evidence in the last 20 years shows it's just not true. Yet a large portion of Sixers fans bought into it even as they were in the midst of the 2nd worst season in NBA history. They still think Hinkie was a god. I get it, some, like one guy here, refuse to admit they were wrong because their just stubborn. I admire their stubbornness but yea Hinkie and his followers were wrong. Who was the last team to win a Championship whose top players were lottery picks by their own team? And Cleveland doesn't even count since they didn't win until LeBron came back as a free agent. I think you have to go back a ways but would have to look it up.
Who was the last team to win a Championship whose top players were lottery picks by their own team? And Cleveland doesn't even count since they didn't win until LeBron came back as a free agent. I think you have to go back a ways but would have to look it up.
Basically his whole argument is based on revisionist history with the use of hindsight. But, cool, doesn't say shit 99% but then drops in occasionally to eat his own. The Utah Jazz are much more superior for drafting the Jokic in the 2nd round of the draft. They totally knew he'd turn into the MVP of the league. And still hilarious due to the irony of calling Philly fans trash for eating their own, yet exemplifying it yourself. Too funny. And I'm sure very, very enjoyable at parties.
Plain and simple - without Hinkie this team would not have Embiid or Simmons, nor the luxury of talking about even being a contender.
2021: Bucks win with their non-lottery pick player as their superstar
2020: Lakers because they are in LA and people want to go there.
2019: Raptors win with their best player being someone that they wouldn’t have been able to attain if it wasn’t for Derozen, a lottery pick of theirs.
2018: Warriors win with their superstar lottery pick
2017: Warriors win with their superstar lottery pick
2016: Cavs win with their 2 best players being #1 overall picks of their own
2015: Warriors win with their superstar lottery pick
2014: Spurs win with a combination of a best player that was not a lottery pick, but also an aging core of some of the winningest players and coach in pro sports history
2012 and 2013: The Heat win for several reasons. Firstly, because they are located in Miami and people like to go there. Also, their 2nd best player was a lottery pick of theirs and was also instrumental in recruiting their best and 3rd best players to come there.
2011: Mavs win with their superstar lottery pick
2009 and 2010: Kobe is a bit of a strange situation. We all know that he should have been a lottery pick, but he fell because his parents were very vocal that he would only play for certain teams. The Nets in particular had their sights on him at #8.
2008: Celtics win with their superstar lottery pick, and other stars that likely would not have been attainable if not for the recruiting of said lottery pick
2007: Spurs win with their superstar #1 overall pick
2006: Miami wins with an all-time great Finals performance from their superstar lottery pick
2005: Spurs win with their superstar #1 overall pick
2004: Pistons win because sometimes the world is a strange place
2003: Spurs win with their superstar #1 overall pick
2000-2002: Lakers win because they are in LA and were able to use that as leverage to obtain the greatest basketball coach of all-time, and 2 of the greatest basketball players of all-time (remember, Kobe only ended up there because mommy and daddy said it was okay)
1999: The Spurs won with their superstar #1 overall pick
1990-1998: The Bulls and Rockets win with their #3 and #1 overall picks
Basically his whole argument is based on revisionist history with the use of hindsight. But, cool, doesn't say shit 99% but then drops in occasionally to eat his own. The Utah Jazz are much more superior for drafting the Jokic in the 2nd round of the draft. They totally knew he'd turn into the MVP of the league. And still hilarious due to the irony of calling Philly fans trash for eating their own, yet exemplifying it yourself. Too funny. And I'm sure very, very enjoyable at parties.
Plain and simple - without Hinkie this team would not have Embiid or Simmons, nor the luxury of talking about even being a contender.
haha argue Simmons sucks and he should be traded for a bag of balls but give Hinkie credit for him being available to Sixers. great logic
and I only drop in occasionally anymore because one guy in here likes to be a tattle tale when someone does the same thing he has been doing for over a decade.
Haha, next argument will be about the head coach. We'll talk about the Bucks hiring the "right" coach, who was a Pop assistant. "Should've hired the other one!" Ya know what we need? A DeLorean with a flux capacitor!
Comments
I get that they almost are forced to trade Simmons now, but you have to make sure your team is going be better if do you trade him and that is going to be quite difficult to do. I think if you trade Simmons you are going to need 3 new starters. You sure as heck can't have a starting backcourt of Damian Lilliard and Seth Curry. That would be brutal defensively. I think Curry needs to be your 6th man. He was exposed defensively in the playoffs. So if you trade Simmons you got Embiid and Harris and need a whole lot around those two.
Odds are they might have to give up both which would suck.
Lillard, Curry, Thybulle, Harris, and Embiid would be an unbelievably ridiculous lineup, especially if Mattise improves his 3pt% a bit.
https://www.phillyvoice.com/nba-trade-rumors-damian-lillard-trade-request-blazers-sixers-ben-simmons-tyrese-maxey-matisse-thybulle/
For Philadelphia specifically, it would be hard to draw up a better fit to play next to Joel Embiid in Philadelphia's quest to win a title. Lillard is basically an elite offense by himself, a pull-up shooter with preposterous range who consistently draws hard traps and attention out to halfcourt, a pick-and-roll monster who punishes the slightest misread from an opposing defense. Last year was actually a down year for Lillard as a pull-up shooter, and he still managed to make over 37 percent of his 8.1 pull-up threes attempted per game, and when teams sell out too hard to stop his outside shooting, Lillard will go by guys off-the-dribble and either score or get fouled on his way to the rim. He's one of the league's elite free-throw shooters, ranking in the top 10 by volume and second overall in efficiency last season.
Lillard would be a dream partner for Embiid, dragging defenders away from the paint with his shooting and capable of creating easier looks for Embiid with the attention he draws out of the pick-and-roll. It would force Embiid to do more work on the move, but Embiid showed he was willing to do that during his brief time with Jimmy Butler in 2018-19. On the other end of the partnership, Lillard having more open looks created for him when teams send doubles at Embiid would create more catch-and-shoot looks and closeout attacking opportunities. It would take some time for both guys to get comfortable in a new setup, but the apex version of Embiid/Lillard would be a nightmare for opponents to deal with.A lot of the value Embiid would provide for Lillard, mind you, would be on the defensive end. Lillard has graded out as one of the least impactful defenders in the league pretty consistently in Portland, a fact that has contributed to the Blazers' inability to rise past their current place in the Western Conference playoff picture. He's far from the only culprit, but he has been hunted by opponents even in recent Team USA exhibition games, and could stand to play with a dominant defensive anchor like Embiid. The big guy could clean up for his issues at the point of attack and allow him to save some energy for the defensive end by carrying the offense the way Sixers fans have already seen him do.
That brings us to price, which is going to be significant no matter where Lillard (theoretically) gets sent. It is going to take most of Philadelphia's war chest to get a deal done, and in all likelihood, it would fundamentally change how the Sixers look and function to go after Lillard.
Ben Simmons and (I presume) an assortment of first-round picks will be the starting point, but I don't think it will be the endpoint, both because of recent star-trade precedent and Simmons' hard-to-place value on the open market. The James Harden trade talks, where Houston demanded picks and young players on top of Ben Simmons, are a good frame of reference, as is Milwaukee's pick-heavy trade to acquire Jrue Holiday last offseason. The Blazers would almost certainly come into talks asking for Simmons, every draft pick and swap that isn't nailed down, and Philadelphia's most promising young players, Tyrese Maxey and Matisse Thybulle.
Where would or could the Sixers draw the line? They balked at add-ons in Harden talks last summer, backing Maxey to go on to big things in the future. Bringing an in-his-prime point guard to the team might change that calculus, or it could give them the incentive to try to hold on to Maxey and develop him as Lillard's understudy. You could also argue that Thybulle is even more valuable in a Simmons-less future built around Lillard, where he'd potentially slide into the starting lineup immediately and take on the top defensive assignments every night. On the other hand, he's a familiar face as a guy who played his college ball in the Pacific Northwest, and a player who can help Portland try to continue winning games right now even as they rebuild in a post-Lillard future. Trading most (or at least some) of your capable depth players would be a tough pill to swallow on top of the rest, but trading for a high-level offensive star is the sort of opportunity you do that for.
(A team with Embiid and Lillard might initially lack depth, but that is the sort of partnership and situation that can draw buyout players and veteran free agents to the team on cheaper deals to go ring-chasing. Depth can be found and made up for, star power cannot.)
The most important factor, one could argue, is exactly where Lillard wants to end up. As we have seen in other recent examples, player preference is a huge driver of these star deals, with franchises wary to cross powerful agents and players who are forcing their way out. That hasn't done much to undercut trade value, and given Lillard's hero status in Portland, the Blazers would almost certainly get raked over the coals by their own fanbase if they traded Lillard against his wishes just because.
Would Lillard want to come to Philly and play with Embiid? That's an open question at the moment, and it should be noted that he is an Oakland, California native who has never played further east than the state of Utah, where he played his college ball at Weber State. East Coast living might not be for him, though it would make sense from a basketball perspective for Lillard to seek an opportunity in the Eastern Conference to escape the meat grinder of his current conference.
Ultimately, Lillard wants to win, and a deal to the Sixers would provide him an A-list partner to play with, a softer conference to attack in the regular season, and a chance to potentially draw more talent moving forward. It would cost the Sixers quite a bit, especially because Lillard is locked up and under contract for four seasons, free agency not a concern until 2025. But that's a feature for Philadelphia, not a bug, ensuring their most important players are here well into the future.
https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/2172849
Lillard denies planning to request trade: No 'firm decision' on future
"It's not true" that Damian Lillard plans to request a trade from the Portland Trail Blazers, he told reporters Friday, according to SNY's Ian Begley.
"I haven't made any firm decision on what my future will be," Lillard said following Team USA practice.
When asked about the start of next season, Lillard said he "expects to be" in a Portland uniform, per Marc J. Spears of ESPN.
A report earlier Friday from TrueHoop's Henry Abbott stated that the 31-year-old guard would ask for a trade, citing a source close to Lillard.
While Lillard rebuffed the notion that he was seeking an immediate exit, the six-time All-Star admitted he doesn't believe the roster can compete for a title as constructed, even with a new coach in Chauncey Billups.
"I don't disagree that maybe Chauncey can change our team and make us a better team," Lillard said, courtesy of USA Today's Mark Medina. "But I think if you look at our team as it is, I don't see how you say, 'This is a championship team, we just need a new coach.'"
His assessment of the squad runs contrary to that of team president Neil Olshey. Following former head coach Terry Stotts' departure, Olshey said Portland's playoff elimination and its poor defense last season "was not a product of the roster," according to Dan Feldman of NBC Sports.
Lillard confirmed that he would speak to Olshey and Billups in a meeting in Las Vegas soon, adding, "There's a conversation to be had," according to Begley.
Lillard has spent all nine seasons of his career in Portland since the team drafted him sixth overall in 2012. The Weber State product's future with the team has been cast into doubt since the Trail Blazers set out to replace Stotts, whom they mutually parted ways with in June.
Earlier in July, Lillard said that words were being put in his mouth amid a flurry of trade rumors. That came weeks after reports that the Trail Blazers' coaching search and concern over their ability to contend for a title could push Lillard to leave Portland.
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
have you forgotten this guy?
Plain and simple - without Hinkie this team would not have Embiid or Simmons, nor the luxury of talking about even being a contender.
2020: Lakers because they are in LA and people want to go there.
2018: Warriors win with their superstar lottery pick
2017: Warriors win with their superstar lottery pick
2016: Cavs win with their 2 best players being #1 overall picks of their own
2015: Warriors win with their superstar lottery pick
2014: Spurs win with a combination of a best player that was not a lottery pick, but also an aging core of some of the winningest players and coach in pro sports history
2012 and 2013: The Heat win for several reasons. Firstly, because they are located in Miami and people like to go there. Also, their 2nd best player was a lottery pick of theirs and was also instrumental in recruiting their best and 3rd best players to come there.
2009 and 2010: Kobe is a bit of a strange situation. We all know that he should have been a lottery pick, but he fell because his parents were very vocal that he would only play for certain teams. The Nets in particular had their sights on him at #8.
2007: Spurs win with their superstar #1 overall pick
2006: Miami wins with an all-time great Finals performance from their superstar lottery pick
2005: Spurs win with their superstar #1 overall pick
2004: Pistons win because sometimes the world is a strange place
2003: Spurs win with their superstar #1 overall pick
2000-2002: Lakers win because they are in LA and were able to use that as leverage to obtain the greatest basketball coach of all-time, and 2 of the greatest basketball players of all-time (remember, Kobe only ended up there because mommy and daddy said it was okay)
1999: The Spurs won with their superstar #1 overall pick
1990-1998: The Bulls and Rockets win with their #3 and #1 overall picks
and I only drop in occasionally anymore because one guy in here likes to be a tattle tale when someone does the same thing he has been doing for over a decade.