LOST- 6th and Final Season (NO SPOILERS)

spat

Long read here but very good, has 2 parts...

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20387946,00.html#mb

Pepe Silvia

overall, for a tv show, i was happy with the ending.

however....i think they did get a little sloppy at a few points and while i'm glad they left some things up to our imaginations there are some things i wish they had explained.

like when widmore did that experiment on desmond and suddenly he was willing to go and acted like he knew something....maybe he jumped and saw how everything would go and they didn't want to give that away at that point?

and that shot of the island being uderwater, i think it was in the first episode this season? i think it was in the alt timeline.

i think they could've trimmed down the richard episode and split it between another character we never really got much info on or something. same with the jacob/mib episode. how did their mother kill ALL those people??? when mib awoke everyone was dead and the village destroyed, can she turn into a smoke monster, too? does she have some other power? did she kill them all with her bare hands? and jacob obviously had a lot of powers, he could stop people from finding or leaving the island and other things....how did he learn that? and why didn't he bother to tell jack any of it? is there a manual somewhere?

i agree with what was said about widmore's death, it just seemed odd to kill a key character that way. i think they should've had at least part of an episode on him and his story

maybe they could've tried to have explained that wheel thing that would transport you to i forget where in the desert where widmore had cameras

i still don't get the scene at the end of whatever season in the arctic. if it was just a scene to show penny's people found the island why the arctic?

what was the significance of that statue jacob lived in? was it there before him or was it built for him?

but hey, they have us talking about the show and people will continue to do so for a long time

was the car desmond took kate to the concert the car hurley's dad gave him and the one he went on that high speed chase that some of the losties saw on tv?

all that said it is a sci-fi show and it's like arguing how plausible star wars or dune is

LikeAnOcean

rrivers wrote:

There would have been no way to transition from the show to the news without those images. Thank God they put them in!

Just for the record I wasn't arguing that it meant no one survived, just wondering what ABC's thought was. Thanks for the link, Sitar.

I think you secretly love this how more than any of us! You're obsessed with this thread!.. It's ok. You can come out of the closet.

Pepe Silvia

Johnny Sitar wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

i think part of it came from when they were trying to convince jack to come on the plane with them saying he'd die if he stayed and he said "i'm already dead" i took it to mean because of his stab wound by the time they landed somewhere with a hospital it'd be too late. that's the only thing i can think of, i didn't watch the finale until a few days later and had overheard people complaining saying they were all dead the whole time but when i watched it i didn't get that impression at all.

yes, when he said "I'm already dead" he meant it as he wouldn't survive his stab wound.

pfffft it was just a flesh wound :roll:

rrivers

Divka wrote:

rrivers wrote:

a.) Yeah because there was nothing in the finale that could have been cut out to include this. The concert was very vital.

The concert scene was vital! Charlie seeing Claire sitting it the audience was something I really appreciated!

Oh right, I was in tears during that part. So moving.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

rrivers wrote:

Divka wrote:

rrivers wrote:

a.) Yeah because there was nothing in the finale that could have been cut out to include this. The concert was very vital.

The concert scene was vital! Charlie seeing Claire sitting it the audience was something I really appreciated!

Oh right, I was in tears during that part. So moving.

I didn't think it was moving either. I thought it looked creepy.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Pepe Silvia wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

i think part of it came from when they were trying to convince jack to come on the plane with them saying he'd die if he stayed and he said "i'm already dead" i took it to mean because of his stab wound by the time they landed somewhere with a hospital it'd be too late. that's the only thing i can think of, i didn't watch the finale until a few days later and had overheard people complaining saying they were all dead the whole time but when i watched it i didn't get that impression at all.

yes, when he said "I'm already dead" he meant it as he wouldn't survive his stab wound.

pfffft it was just a flesh wound :roll:

my buddy was stabbed in the abdomen a few years ago, and I think he'd argue it was a flesh wound!

Pepe Silvia

Johnny Sitar wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

yes, when he said "I'm already dead" he meant it as he wouldn't survive his stab wound.

pfffft it was just a flesh wound :roll:

my buddy was stabbed in the abdomen a few years ago, and I think he'd argue it was a flesh wound!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

rrivers

Johnny Sitar wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

pfffft it was just a flesh wound :roll:

my buddy was stabbed in the abdomen a few years ago, and I think he'd argue it was a flesh wound!

I work at a trauma center and there is a guy who came in yesterday after stabbing himself in the abdomen with a screwdriver. It was the 9th time since 2007 he's been in after stabbing himself with something. I, too, would argue about it being a flesh wound especially if it was in me.

I figured the guy just finished the finale of Lost and couldn't take it anymore.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Pepe Silvia wrote:

overall, for a tv show, i was happy with the ending.

however....i think they did get a little sloppy at a few points and while i'm glad they left some things up to our imaginations there are some things i wish they had explained.

like when widmore did that experiment on desmond and suddenly he was willing to go and acted like he knew something....maybe he jumped and saw how everything would go and they didn't want to give that away at that point?

and that shot of the island being uderwater, i think it was in the first episode this season? i think it was in the alt timeline.

i think they could've trimmed down the richard episode and split it between another character we never really got much info on or something. same with the jacob/mib episode. how did their mother kill ALL those people??? when mib awoke everyone was dead and the village destroyed, can she turn into a smoke monster, too? does she have some other power? did she kill them all with her bare hands? and jacob obviously had a lot of powers, he could stop people from finding or leaving the island and other things....how did he learn that? and why didn't he bother to tell jack any of it? is there a manual somewhere?

i agree with what was said about widmore's death, it just seemed odd to kill a key character that way. i think they should've had at least part of an episode on him and his story

maybe they could've tried to have explained that wheel thing that would transport you to i forget where in the desert where widmore had cameras

i still don't get the scene at the end of whatever season in the arctic. if it was just a scene to show penny's people found the island why the arctic?

what was the significance of that statue jacob lived in? was it there before him or was it built for him?

but hey, they have us talking about the show and people will continue to do so for a long time

was the car desmond took kate to the concert the car hurley's dad gave him and the one he went on that high speed chase that some of the losties saw on tv?

all that said it is a sci-fi show and it's like arguing how plausible star wars or dune is

I wouldn't be surprised if the shot of the island under water in the sideways world meant that the island was dead, just as the losties were in that world. Remember, in this show, the island wasn't just a place, but its own character.

I think showing the statue that Jacob lived in served a purpose in showing the viewer different time periods, differentiating between when the statue was whole and when it was just a big foot.

Asking about Jacob and MIB's murderous mom is like asking about God's mom. Blasphemer! I think she was meant to be a total mystery. She was introduced so late in the series, there couldn't be much done about her character development. Their biological mother, however, should have had some hand in the saving of the island though. Obviously, she was something special to give birth to Island God and Island Devil at the same time!

Who Princess

Pepe Silvia wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

pfffft it was just a flesh wound :roll:

my buddy was stabbed in the abdomen a few years ago, and I think he'd argue it was a flesh wound!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

I knew what you were talking about. :ugeek:

At least we didn't have Smokey beating Jack to a bloody pulp and then Jack says "Is that the best you can do?" :roll:

eeriepadave

Lost explained in 3 minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HWECQa23Cs

MayDay10

here is a good post making its rounds from a guy on another board i frequent who works for bad robot

Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

drsluggo

MayDay10 wrote:

here is a good post making its rounds from a guy on another board i frequent who works for bad robot

This is a really good post - one thing I would mention is a friend of mine had read that there are a lot of questions as to whether the original author does work for Bad Robot or not, but its a fun read nonetheless.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

MayDay10 wrote:

here is a good post making its rounds from a guy on another board i frequent who works for bad robot

utterly fabulous. thanks for sharing.

rrivers

Thanks for that post. Very interesting.

Penny and Desmond are in the church, right? They weren't in season 1.

MayDay10

rrivers wrote:

Thanks for that post. Very interesting.

Penny and Desmond are in the church, right? They weren't in season 1.

I thought about that too. Didnt Desmond appear in one of Jack's flashbacks in Season 1? Then immediately as an Island character in Season 2 premier. No Penny though until the 2nd Season.

that post does make me feel better about the series. Apparently the guy (he is on a Buffalo Bills board) does work for Bad Robot, but didnt have anything to do with writing Lost. He posted this and later had the mods delete it because it spread so far quickly.... people even found it translated in different languages.... and it kind of undermines the producers and writers of the show a bit
A funny thing is the Lost thread there is like 88 pages and all remnants of his post was deleted. Then someone posted it in that thread attempting to share it with everyone.

pjsteelerfan

MayDay10 wrote:

rrivers wrote:

Thanks for that post. Very interesting.

Penny and Desmond are in the church, right? They weren't in season 1.

I thought about that too. Didnt Desmond appear in one of Jack's flashbacks in Season 1? Then immediately as an Island character in Season 2 premier. No Penny though until the 2nd Season.

that post does make me feel better about the series. Apparently the guy (he is on a Buffalo Bills board) does work for Bad Robot, but didnt have anything to do with writing Lost. He posted this and later had the mods delete it because it spread so far quickly.... people even found it translated in different languages.... and it kind of undermines the producers and writers of the show a bit
A funny thing is the Lost thread there is like 88 pages and all remnants of his post was deleted. Then someone posted it in that thread attempting to share it with everyone.

Has it been confirmed he worked for bad robot? I posted a link to this same thing from a different message board on here a few days ago. Some of what he wrote was a little off, but it was a very good read.

rrivers

MayDay10 wrote:

rrivers wrote:

Thanks for that post. Very interesting.

Penny and Desmond are in the church, right? They weren't in season 1.

I thought about that too. Didnt Desmond appear in one of Jack's flashbacks in Season 1? Then immediately as an Island character in Season 2 premier. No Penny though until the 2nd Season.

that post does make me feel better about the series. Apparently the guy (he is on a Buffalo Bills board) does work for Bad Robot, but didnt have anything to do with writing Lost. He posted this and later had the mods delete it because it spread so far quickly.... people even found it translated in different languages.... and it kind of undermines the producers and writers of the show a bit
A funny thing is the Lost thread there is like 88 pages and all remnants of his post was deleted. Then someone posted it in that thread attempting to share it with everyone.

Juliet wasn't in the first season either. I still enjoyed reading it. I do agree it undermines the Lost producers and writers.

spat

Vincent explained! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI4mWmvZ1xg&NR=1

get the tissues ready, you'll be crying (from laughter)