9/11 Suspects to Face Death Penalty in NYC Trial...

inmytree

prfctlefts wrote:

inmytree wrote:

here you go, my friend...

http://www.virtualgravy.com/copyandpaste.htm

http://www.tips4pc.com/Articles/Video%2 ... to_cut.htm

I hope this help...cut and paste is the greatest thing since sliced bread...

Hey... Thanks man this is the nicest thing anyone has ever done for me on here, Damn I didn't realize it was that easy. Now if I could just find out where the hell that L.A. down load went to. I bet you're probably thinking Oh shit what have I done.

my pleasure...I'm glad you found it helpful...

while we may disagree on nearly everything ( ) we can help each other out...

aerial

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

aerial wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

My greatest concern is that it will be a shambles of a show trial that ignores all established legal precedent.the ramifications of that could be worse than terrorism itself. None of the prerequisites exist for a fair trial in the case of terrorist captured overseas by intelligence agents.

For example, just for starters what objective proof do we have that the individual who will show up in the courtroom is actually the KSM who planned 911? What do we do if he simply asserts he is not the person the Gov.. claims he is ?

What about chain of evidence ? KSM wasn't captured by civil law enforcement ,but by our military who were fighting a war,not gathering evidence. Did they carefully log every piece of evidence and log every time someone touched it. How will the prosecution refute a claim that evidence was tampered with ?

what about KSM being water-boarded ? In a normal civil trial that would make his confession entirely inadmissible.Even if the jury knows of the confession external to the trial,an honest jury member would have to disregard such information. If the confession is allowed against all precedent,the jury could honestly
disregard it just as they would in any proven instance of police brutality.

A civil defendant has the right to face his accusers. Are we going to force intelligence officers and special agents to reveal their identities in open court ? If we don't,how do we prove that the Gov. witnesses are real people and that they are telling the truth about real people ? The defendant also has the right examine any and all evidence. So why not just let KSM and his defense team examine the the internals of the software and hardware we use to track enemy communications.

These and other factors could all combine create a plausible defense that simply says that all the evidence presented was fabricated by the GOVernment . Such fabrication does occur in much less prominent,so a jury cannot disregard the possibility it could occur in such a high profile case. So how could the Gov. objectively refute such a claim when it employed none of the safeguards used by civil law enforcement ?

These are all real concerns (and I don't care how it was posted). Why are enemy combatants given the same rights as American citizens. It nauseates me that we the people of this country have to pay for this foreign terrorist murders defense.

it probably has something to do with the fact that they are human beings, and in the eyes of the law no matter how bad you wish it was not true, but being human trumps nationality or religion.

We are not a lawless country...humans are to obey the laws......if not there is complete chaos!....or could that be Obamas plan?

gimmesometruth27

aerial what the hell are you even talking about? we do have laws and we have a procedure for bringing people to trial and to justice who break those laws.... how f'ing difficult is that for you to understand? we do not have vigilante justice and we do not carry out capital punnishment without a proper trial. taxpayors pay for most defendants that have to use a public defender, but i would not worry because these attorneys representing KSM and his gang are going to be pretty well compensated i am sure....

we can't just execute them on the spot, no matter how hard you want to do that.

also, why in the hell would chaos be the plan of the president of the united states?? answer me why! i am calling you out now and asking why YOU feel that the president wants chaos. please indulge me.

or on second thought, maybe you should stick to the fox thread? is that where you are getting your info about the president wanting chaos?

brandon10

aerial wrote:

Obama says they will be convicted...hmmm so why have a trial... just as you say... Obama could give a rats ass about this country...his main goal is to please the world not his country.....This man is selfserving

brandon10 ...I think the PJ song insignificance was made to describe your posts. Your thoughtless blabber gets old fast.

Do us a favour, when you finally post something that you actually thought up without Glen Beck telling you what to say....let us know. We'll throw a party.

brandon10 ...... Are you trying to hurt my feelings :yawn: or just showing your ignorance?... :oops: .....

Whatever you say Glen............

aerial

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

aerial what the hell are you even talking about? we do have laws and we have a procedure for bringing people to trial and to justice who break those laws.... how f'ing difficult is that for you to understand? we do not have vigilante justice and we do not carry out capital punnishment without a proper trial. taxpayors pay for most defendants that have to use a public defender, but i would not worry because these attorneys representing KSM and his gang are going to be pretty well compensated i am sure....

we can't just execute them on the spot, no matter how hard you want to do that.

also, why in the hell would chaos be the plan of the president of the united states?? answer me why! i am calling you out now and asking why YOU feel that the president wants chaos. please indulge me.

or on second thought, maybe you should stick to the fox thread? is that where you are getting your info about the president wanting chaos?

Why has procedure for convicting enemy combatants changed? It has to benefit someone or it would not be happening. There is an agenda. That’s what I am saying.

Commy

aerial wrote:

Why has procedure for convicting enemy combatants changed? It has to benefit someone or it would not be happening. There is an agenda. That’s what I am saying.

a few things.



first the procedure was illegal under international law. a few international laws, mostly it went against laws set up by the geneva convention. tha'ts probably why it changed.


secondly, what procedure is this that is set up to "convict" them. trials exist for a reason, if the point is guaranteed conviction, why even have a procedure?

Cosmo

prfctlefts wrote:

So what all of you cut and paste shit all the time what's the difference
and I didn't even type out the whole opinion and Cosmo I can think for myself so piss off you're nothing but a jerk who likes to talk shit. All of you should know by now I'm not that articulate. I just thought the author made some really good points,but just as I expected all of you would just focus on the fact that I didn't write it and not the real issue at hand

...
I know you can think for yourself... but, you have yet to show any signs of critical thought.
I simply pointed out the those greatest concerns were NOT your greatest concerns... they were Shannon Love's greatest concerns. If you agree with him, show him a little respect and give him the credit he deserves... instead of trying to make it look like you were the one with the original thoughts.
That's all.

soulsinging

aerial wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

aerial what the hell are you even talking about? we do have laws and we have a procedure for bringing people to trial and to justice who break those laws.... how f'ing difficult is that for you to understand? we do not have vigilante justice and we do not carry out capital punnishment without a proper trial. taxpayors pay for most defendants that have to use a public defender, but i would not worry because these attorneys representing KSM and his gang are going to be pretty well compensated i am sure....

we can't just execute them on the spot, no matter how hard you want to do that.

also, why in the hell would chaos be the plan of the president of the united states?? answer me why! i am calling you out now and asking why YOU feel that the president wants chaos. please indulge me.

or on second thought, maybe you should stick to the fox thread? is that where you are getting your info about the president wanting chaos?

Why has procedure for convicting enemy combatants changed? It has to benefit someone or it would not be happening. There is an agenda. That’s what I am saying.

you know, sometimes things change just becos it's the right thing to do. and open, public trials for the accused are not only the right thing to do, they are the cornerstone of everything america stands for.

Dirtie_Frank

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

So what all of you cut and paste shit all the time what's the difference
and I didn't even type out the whole opinion and Cosmo I can think for myself so piss off you're nothing but a jerk who likes to talk shit. All of you should know by now I'm not that articulate. I just thought the author made some really good points,but just as I expected all of you would just focus on the fact that I didn't write it and not the real issue at hand

when i cut and paste, i paste the text, a link to the article, and the author's name. feel free to check my posts because i always cite what i am pasting. you blatantly stole his/her article and passed it off as your own opinion and work. i know people who have failed classes and faced serious penalties at university for doing less than what you have done here. if you liked what the author said, why not say "i agree with what this person said" and post the link or text and leave it at that? it would have been much better than people thinking you are not capable of your own thought.

i do not know why you are attacking Cosmo. Cosmo is a very intelligent and very even handed poster. It was not just Cosmo that knew you did not write it.

i think the right is afraid of going to a real trial because it is going to come out that the CIA disappeared KSM's two children age 6 and 9 and allegedly brought them to america and tortured them to get info about their father. they are still missing to this day apparently. if this is true this is going to blow up in our faces and may implicate people at the highest levels of our last administration including director of the cia at the time, cheney, rice, and bush.

You have information that the CIA did this?

gimmesometruth27

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

So what all of you cut and paste shit all the time what's the difference
and I didn't even type out the whole opinion and Cosmo I can think for myself so piss off you're nothing but a jerk who likes to talk shit. All of you should know by now I'm not that articulate. I just thought the author made some really good points,but just as I expected all of you would just focus on the fact that I didn't write it and not the real issue at hand

when i cut and paste, i paste the text, a link to the article, and the author's name. feel free to check my posts because i always cite what i am pasting. you blatantly stole his/her article and passed it off as your own opinion and work. i know people who have failed classes and faced serious penalties at university for doing less than what you have done here. if you liked what the author said, why not say "i agree with what this person said" and post the link or text and leave it at that? it would have been much better than people thinking you are not capable of your own thought.

i do not know why you are attacking Cosmo. Cosmo is a very intelligent and very even handed poster. It was not just Cosmo that knew you did not write it.

i think the right is afraid of going to a real trial because it is going to come out that the CIA disappeared KSM's two children age 6 and 9 and allegedly brought them to america and tortured them to get info about their father. they are still missing to this day apparently. if this is true this is going to blow up in our faces and may implicate people at the highest levels of our last administration including director of the cia at the time, cheney, rice, and bush.

You have information that the CIA did this?

i don't personally here at work. but it is out there. widely unreported but its out there. do a search for "khalid sheik muhammad children" and there will be some info on it. i read it the day i posted that.

Dirtie_Frank

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i don't personally here at work. but it is out there. widely unreported but its out there. do a search for "khalid sheik muhammad children" and there will be some info on it. i read it the day i posted that.

Yeah these are credibal sources, wiki, pupetgov, democratic underground, etc. they don't have a left wing agenda do they :roll:.

gimmesometruth27

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i don't personally here at work. but it is out there. widely unreported but its out there. do a search for "khalid sheik muhammad children" and there will be some info on it. i read it the day i posted that.

Yeah these are credibal sources, wiki, pupetgov, democratic underground, etc. they don't have a left wing agenda do they :roll:.

yeah wiki is a lefty socialist website. :roll:

this allegedly happened in 2003. i urge you to search from news sources from then. hint, not american papers or news sources...it takes some digging to find credibility. i found it, and if you are serious about finding it you can too. i urge you to look at the open letter from amnesty international that reports this. page 11 of that letter to be specific. there was also a big report from the guardian uk. don't take my word for it, do some digging because all of us can learn something.

gimmesometruth27

here is the letter from amnesty international to pervez musharaff seeking the whereabouts of KSMs children and telling him of the allegations about the US rendering and torturing the children... see pages 10 and 11.

http://www.talkleft.com/media/khalidsonsamnesty.pdf

Cosmo

The people who are afraid of this guy... that hairy fat-ass, John Belushi look-a-like? Fuck him.
You act like he's the fucking Lord of The Underworld, Sauron in possession of the ring that rules them all, Darth Fucking Vader or Lord Lucifer, himself. He's NOT. He's a hairy fat-ass. What kind of pussies are you that you are so fucking afraid of him?
Guilty... life in prison with the fucking wackos we have in our prisons... we have people who have EATEN people in our prisons. Or please the Death Penalty folks... I'm against it, even for this asshole... I think a life sentence bunking with neo-Nazis with tattooed faces is what he deserves.
And so fucking what if he gets off on a technicality? Are you THAT fucking stupid to believe he'd be released to the streets of Lincoln, Nebraska? He would be shipped off and dropped off in East Bumfucking, Afghanistan... where he would STILL be considered an enemy combatant and a high valued target. I have more than enough faith in the talents and skills of our Ranger and Marine sniper teams.
...
It cracks me up that people are such fucking pussies about this asshole. He is a fat, hairy asshole that does NOT have the Ring that rules them all, a red light sabre and the power of the Dark Side of the Force at his command or sits in the Throne in Hell.

VINNY GOOMBA

Cosmo wrote:

The people who are afraid of this guy... that hairy fat-ass, John Belushi look-a-like? Fuck him.
You act like he's the fucking Lord of The Underworld, Sauron in possession of the ring that rules them all, Darth Fucking Vader or Lord Lucifer, himself. He's NOT. He's a hairy fat-ass. What kind of pussies are you that you are so fucking afraid of him?
Guilty... life in prison with the fucking wackos we have in our prisons... we have people who have EATEN people in our prisons. Or please the Death Penalty folks... I'm against it, even for this asshole... I think a life sentence bunking with neo-Nazis with tattooed faces is what he deserves.
And so fucking what if he gets off on a technicality? Are you THAT fucking stupid to believe he'd be released to the streets of Lincoln, Nebraska? He would be shipped off and dropped off in East Bumfucking, Afghanistan... where he would STILL be considered an enemy combatant and a high valued target. I have more than enough faith in the talents and skills of our Ranger and Marine sniper teams.
...
It cracks me up that people are such fucking pussies about this asshole. He is a fat, hairy asshole that does NOT have the Ring that rules them all, a red light sabre and the power of the Dark Side of the Force at his command or sits in the Throne in Hell.

Agreed.

I think that maybe the biggest issue with bringing these people over here for a civillian trial has yet to be mentioned. I believe that any real evidence that is good enough to convict these people, will also truly expose just how bad our intelligence dropped the ball on the day of and before 9/11.

puremagic

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

You have information that the CIA did this?

Actual copy of excerpt from the unclassified version of the CIA Inspector General's 2004 Torture Report

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/7511



By: JimWhite Monday August 24, 2009 5:49 pm

Fire Dog Lake



On page 51 of the CIA Office of Inspector General report on torture released today, we have this paragraph:


From the unredacted portion we can see that someone, in the course of interrogating Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, said "We're going to kill your children" if anything else happens in the US. Lest anyone think this was an idle threat, it should be noted that KSM was captured and interrogated in March, 2003. In that same month, this report appeared in The Telegraph:

"Two young sons of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the suspected mastermind of the September 11 attacks, are being used by the CIA to force their father to talk.

Yousef al-Khalid, nine, and his brother, Abed al-Khalid, seven, were taken into custody in Pakistan last September when intelligence officers raided a flat in Karachi where their father had been hiding.

Since his children were captured about six months before he was, KSM would have known that the US had access to them.

The article continues:

"Last night CIA interrogators confirmed that the boys were staying at a secret address where they were being encouraged to talk about their father's activities.

"We are handling them with kid gloves. After all, they are only little children," said one official, "but we need to know as much about their father's recent activities as possible. We have child psychologists on hand at all times and they are given the best of care."

Their father, Mohammed, 37, is being interrogated at the Bagram US military base in Afghanistan. He is being held in solitary confinement and subjected to "stress and duress"-style interrogation techniques."

We now know, of course, that KSM's "stress and duress" consisted of, among other things, being waterboarded 183 times.

====

Even With all this, I believe 12 people in a civilian trial can listen to all the evidence and come to a verdict based on the evidence presented.

PearlOfAGirl

Something tells me that this is going to get real ugly... :( What in the world are they thinking??? :shock:

PearlOfAGirl

While watching the news the other day, they had mentioned that this trial will cost millions of dollars. :x Why isn't this a military trial? :think: :wtf:

WaveCameCrashin

HeartShapedBox wrote:

While watching the news the other day, they had mentioned that this trial will cost millions of dollars. :x Why isn't this a military trial? :think: :wtf:

I'll tell you why, Because they want to use this as a platform to try and discredit the Bush administration and the CIA. They are putting their Ideology ahead of our safety.
Not to mention the safety of all the people that work and live in the vacinity of the Federal courthouse. You wouldn't catch me within a 5 mile radius. Not only that,The justice dept ( E. Holder) didn't even tell the Mayor that they were going to do this until the day before they announced it.
This administration needs to wake up and get their head out of their asses because it's not a matter of if but a matter of when they attack us again.

Cosmo

prfctlefts wrote:

HeartShapedBox wrote:

While watching the news the other day, they had mentioned that this trial will cost millions of dollars. :x Why isn't this a military trial? :think: :wtf:

I'll tell you why, Because they want to use this as a platform to try and discredit the Bush administration and the CIA. They are putting their Ideology ahead of our safety.
Not to mention the safety of all the people that work and live in the vacinity of the Federal courthouse. You wouldn't catch me within a 5 mile radius. Not only that,The justice dept ( E. Holder) didn't even tell the Mayor that they were going to do this until the day before they announced it.
This administration needs to wake up and get their head out of their asses because it's not a matter of if but a matter of when they attack us again.

...
Why or how would this happen? Would the U.S. Justice systen take on Iraqi kangaroo court rules?
Did the Unibomber get to read his anti-government manifesto? NO. How about Timmy mcveigh... did he get to air his grievences against the Federal government and their combatant soldiers at the Morro Building? NO. Do Mass Murderers get to express the thrill they got as they squeezed the life out of 6 year old girls? NO!!!
So... why do you fear this guy will get this opportunity?
(my guess... because you FEAR he will).
...
You may be afraid of this fat, hairy... ugly fucking piece of shit... but, I'm not. Fuck him and his fucking buddies. Put their asses in fucking Rikers, San Quentin or Pelican Bay and watch them shit their pants as they sit across the chow table from a fucking skinhead with swastikas tattooed on his face.