My greatest concern is that it will be a shambles of a show trial that ignores all established legal precedent.the ramifications of that could be worse than terrorism itself. None of the prerequisites exist for a fair trial in the case of terrorist captured overseas by intelligence agents.
For example, just for starters what objective proof do we have that the individual who will show up in the courtroom is actually the KSM who planned 911? What do we do if he simply asserts he is not the person the Gov.. claims he is ?
What about chain of evidence ? KSM wasn't captured by civil law enforcement ,but by our military who were fighting a war,not gathering evidence. Did they carefully log every piece of evidence and log every time someone touched it. How will the prosecution refute a claim that evidence was tampered with ?
what about KSM being water-boarded ? In a normal civil trial that would make his confession entirely inadmissible.Even if the jury knows of the confession external to the trial,an honest jury member would have to disregard such information. If the confession is allowed against all precedent,the jury could honestly
disregard it just as they would in any proven instance of police brutality.
A civil defendant has the right to face his accusers. Are we going to force intelligence officers and special agents to reveal their identities in open court ? If we don't,how do we prove that the Gov. witnesses are real people and that they are telling the truth about real people ? The defendant also has the right examine any and all evidence. So why not just let KSM and his defense team examine the the internals of the software and hardware we use to track enemy communications.
These and other factors could all combine create a plausible defense that simply says that all the evidence presented was fabricated by the GOVernment . Such fabrication does occur in much less prominent,so a jury cannot disregard the possibility it could occur in such a high profile case. So how could the Gov. objectively refute such a claim when it employed none of the safeguards used by civil law enforcement ?
I enjoy reading posts in the MT once in a while and don't feel compelled to post here, but I'll make an exception cause this made me shoot cola out of my nose.
My greatest concern is that it will be a shambles of a show trial that ignores all established legal precedent.the ramifications of that could be worse than terrorism itself. None of the prerequisites exist for a fair trial in the case of terrorist captured overseas by intelligence agents.
For example, just for starters what objective proof do we have that the individual who will show up in the courtroom is actually the KSM who planned 911? What do we do if he simply asserts he is not the person the Gov.. claims he is ?
What about chain of evidence ? KSM wasn't captured by civil law enforcement ,but by our military who were fighting a war,not gathering evidence. Did they carefully log every piece of evidence and log every time someone touched it. How will the prosecution refute a claim that evidence was tampered with ?
what about KSM being water-boarded ? In a normal civil trial that would make his confession entirely inadmissible.Even if the jury knows of the confession external to the trial,an honest jury member would have to disregard such information. If the confession is allowed against all precedent,the jury could honestly
disregard it just as they would in any proven instance of police brutality.
A civil defendant has the right to face his accusers. Are we going to force intelligence officers and special agents to reveal their identities in open court ? If we don't,how do we prove that the Gov. witnesses are real people and that they are telling the truth about real people ? The defendant also has the right examine any and all evidence. So why not just let KSM and his defense team examine the the internals of the software and hardware we use to track enemy communications.
These and other factors could all combine create a plausible defense that simply says that all the evidence presented was fabricated by the GOVernment . Such fabrication does occur in much less prominent,so a jury cannot disregard the possibility it could occur in such a high profile case. So how could the Gov. objectively refute such a claim when it employed none of the safeguards used by civil law enforcement ?
...
Busted.
Proof that independent thinking and critical thought is not in his arsenal. His greatest weapon against us 'Liberal, America hating, Kool-Aid drinking, Obama loving, socialist, commie Nazis' is plagerism.
Unless, of course, his name is Shannon Love and he has a vagina. If that is the case... nevermind.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
My greatest concern is that it will be a shambles of a show trial that ignores all established legal precedent.the ramifications of that could be worse than terrorism itself. None of the prerequisites exist for a fair trial in the case of terrorist captured overseas by intelligence agents.
For example, just for starters what objective proof do we have that the individual who will show up in the courtroom is actually the KSM who planned 911? What do we do if he simply asserts he is not the person the Gov.. claims he is ?
What about chain of evidence ? KSM wasn't captured by civil law enforcement ,but by our military who were fighting a war,not gathering evidence. Did they carefully log every piece of evidence and log every time someone touched it. How will the prosecution refute a claim that evidence was tampered with ?
what about KSM being water-boarded ? In a normal civil trial that would make his confession entirely inadmissible.Even if the jury knows of the confession external to the trial,an honest jury member would have to disregard such information. If the confession is allowed against all precedent,the jury could honestly
disregard it just as they would in any proven instance of police brutality.
A civil defendant has the right to face his accusers. Are we going to force intelligence officers and special agents to reveal their identities in open court ? If we don't,how do we prove that the Gov. witnesses are real people and that they are telling the truth about real people ? The defendant also has the right examine any and all evidence. So why not just let KSM and his defense team examine the the internals of the software and hardware we use to track enemy communications.
These and other factors could all combine create a plausible defense that simply says that all the evidence presented was fabricated by the GOVernment . Such fabrication does occur in much less prominent,so a jury cannot disregard the possibility it could occur in such a high profile case. So how could the Gov. objectively refute such a claim when it employed none of the safeguards used by civil law enforcement ?
Unless, of course, his name is Shannon Love and he has a vagina. If that is the case... nevermind.
I can't find on that site if Shannon Love is male or female. Shannon, originally was a male name.
Not that I believe our friend here is this Shannon Love person, but just on the name alone we can't rule it out.
...
Actually... you are correct. Shannon is one of those names that is gender neutral, like Pat or Chris or Jean. And the more I read Shannon Love's blog... I figured out he is a guy. An older guy... probably Viet Nam Era... and pretty well versed. Opposite of many of my points of view, but I think I'd like to discuss things with him.
Definately... NOT our guy. For one, he understands why the Bail-outs were required and why Executives deserve the pay they get and I'm guessing doesn't listen to Pearl Jam. And I have a feeling, Shannon doesn't seem to be the kind of person who'd watch FOX News for anything other than fuel for humourous commentary about broadcast 'journalism'.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
KSM should not be tried in a federal court. HE should be tried in a military tribunal. This is a vey bad decision on the part of Obama and Holder. Not only that it Unconstitutional. wtf is this president thinking ? What's going to happen if he walks on a technicality ? :x :x :x
so he should be tried in a military court to guarantee conviction?
why even have a trial?
Obama says they will be convicted...hmmm so why have a trial... just as you say... Obama could give a rats ass about this country...his main goal is to please the world not his country.....This man is selfserving...
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
KSM should not be tried in a federal court. HE should be tried in a military tribunal. This is a vey bad decision on the part of Obama and Holder. Not only that it Unconstitutional. wtf is this president thinking ? What's going to happen if he walks on a technicality ? :x :x :x
so he should be tried in a military court to guarantee conviction?
why even have a trial?
Obama says they will be convicted...hmmm so why have a trial... just as you say... Obama could give a rats ass about this country...his main goal is to please the world not his country.....This man is selfserving...
I think the PJ song insignificance was made to describe your posts. Your thoughtless blabber gets old fast.
Do us a favour, when you finally post something that you actually thought up without Glen Beck telling you what to say....let us know. We'll throw a party.
Obama says they will be convicted...hmmm so why have a trial
tell me aerial, what would you have preferred your president to say? that he has no faith in the justice system?
damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
the GOP is shitting themselves at the thought of KSM's trial being held in the fed court system. i wonder why that might be aerial? why are they so damn afraid? isn't there already over 300 tried and convicted terrorists currently in custody, including those responsible for the 93 WTC bombing?
of course it wouldn't have anything to do with all the lies that were told by bush and co, and more of them being made public now, would it?
So what all of you cut and paste shit all the time what's the difference
and I didn't even type out the whole opinion and Cosmo I can think for myself so piss off you're nothing but a jerk who likes to talk shit. All of you should know by now I'm not that articulate. I just thought the author made some really good points,but just as I expected all of you would just focus on the fact that I didn't write it and not the real issue at hand
So what all of you cut and paste shit all the time what's the difference
and I didn't even type out the whole opinion and Cosmo I can think for myself so piss off you're nothing but a jerk who likes to talk shit. All of you should know by now I'm not that articulate. I just thought the author made some really good points,but just as I expected all of you would just focus on the fact that I didn't write it and not the real issue at hand
The difference is we post the link and we don't fucking change words to make the article our own. Just as you expected? If you describe yourself as 'not that articulate', and realize you'd probably get busted...why not just post the bloody link? Some people here are 'not so articulate', hell english isn't even their first language. They don't do this....others, like me, have zero education and are taking the time to learn about the topics we're posting in, and to put some actual thought into our replies, so it's a bit of a piss off when someone pulls this kind of shit.
So what all of you cut and paste shit all the time what's the difference
and I didn't even type out the whole opinion and Cosmo I can think for myself so piss off you're nothing but a jerk who likes to talk shit. All of you should know by now I'm not that articulate. I just thought the author made some really good points,but just as I expected all of you would just focus on the fact that I didn't write it and not the real issue at hand
when i cut and paste, i paste the text, a link to the article, and the author's name. feel free to check my posts because i always cite what i am pasting. you blatantly stole his/her article and passed it off as your own opinion and work. i know people who have failed classes and faced serious penalties at university for doing less than what you have done here. if you liked what the author said, why not say "i agree with what this person said" and post the link or text and leave it at that? it would have been much better than people thinking you are not capable of your own thought.
i do not know why you are attacking Cosmo. Cosmo is a very intelligent and very even handed poster. It was not just Cosmo that knew you did not write it.
i think the right is afraid of going to a real trial because it is going to come out that the CIA disappeared KSM's two children age 6 and 9 and allegedly brought them to america and tortured them to get info about their father. they are still missing to this day apparently. if this is true this is going to blow up in our faces and may implicate people at the highest levels of our last administration including director of the cia at the time, cheney, rice, and bush.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
i think the right is afraid of going to a real trial because it is going to come out that the CIA disappeared KSM's two children age 6 and 9 and allegedly brought them to america and tortured them to get info about their father. they are still missing to this day apparently. if this is true this is going to blow up in our faces and may implicate people at the highest levels of our last administration including director of the cia at the time, cheney, rice, and bush.
I just cannot imagine a positive outcome to this. As one of the comments below the plagiarized article points out – there are two possible outcomes: KSM will be executed….or, to show the world that the US justice system is actually just and that the methods used to capture, detain, and gain info about him are unacceptable, he will be set free. Either way he wins. He gets executed; he’s a martyr who could inspire radicals the world over. He walks and it could be Rodney King x1000 in the US. That said, this cannot be swept under the rug any longer. I just hope this is done by the book, and not used as another way for the US to manipulate their own systems, people, and world opinion. If (when) he’s found guilty and executed, will this not set very dangerous precedents in American law, considering the methods used to convict?
And you’re right, if the alleged details of his kids’ disappearance are made common knowledge, this could all backfire in the US AND ignite the muslim world.
i think the right is afraid of going to a real trial because it is going to come out that the CIA disappeared KSM's two children age 6 and 9 and allegedly brought them to america and tortured them to get info about their father. they are still missing to this day apparently. if this is true this is going to blow up in our faces and may implicate people at the highest levels of our last administration including director of the cia at the time, cheney, rice, and bush.
I just cannot imagine a positive outcome to this. As one of the comments below the plagiarized article points out – there are two possible outcomes: KSM will be executed….or, to show the world that the US justice system is actually just and that the methods used to capture, detain, and gain info about him are unacceptable, he will be set free. Either way he wins. He gets executed; he’s a martyr who could inspire radicals the world over. He walks and it could be Rodney King x1000 in the US. That said, this cannot be swept under the rug any longer. I just hope this is done by the book, and not used as another way for the US to manipulate their own systems, people, and world opinion. If (when) he’s found guilty and executed, will this not set very dangerous precedents in American law, considering the methods used to convict?
And you’re right, if the alleged details of his kids’ disappearance are made common knowledge, this could all backfire in the US AND ignite the muslim world.
i think you are right here. there is no good outcome. if he gets off it will be rodney king times a million. if he is executed he will ba a martyr and an inspiration to the next several generation of jihadis. BUT we will have nobody to blame but the people that screwed up the investigation and the case. everything we did to him is severely illegal and most of it is against the geneva convention and international law so maybe bush and cheney will become accomplices after the fact and see their own trial?
i did a google search fos Khalid shiek mohammad kids and a bunch of articles popped up. nothing was official looking though. it was too much for me to go through here at work. if i find anythig reputable i will post it. anyone else is welcome to look into that claim and post it for us if they are so inclined.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
So what all of you cut and paste shit all the time what's the difference
and I didn't even type out the whole opinion and Cosmo I can think for myself so piss off you're nothing but a jerk who likes to talk shit. All of you should know by now I'm not that articulate. I just thought the author made some really good points,but just as I expected all of you would just focus on the fact that I didn't write it and not the real issue at hand
you have only yourself to blame....if you posted the link along with your cut and paste job, the merits of the article would be discussed, not your passing off something as your own...
also, why you do even come here...? you cry and moan when called out...for some reason you want to get personal and call names...seriously, what grade are you in...?
so much for due process. yeah lets martyr them and encourage more terrorists, what a brilliant idea.
Obviously you don't get it... They could all walk on a technicality such as their miranda rights never being read to them. Which would not happen in a M.T. And not to mention this is exactly what he wants. They will use this trial for nothing more than propaganda so that he can become a martyr and that will create more Jihadist. It will also bring the pain back to the families that lost loved ones on 911,but Im sure you and the rest of the lefties on here could care less about how the families feel. You're all more worried about the KSM's feelings or fox news.
Not all Gitmo detainees will be tried in civilian courts, but there's enough evidence to bring KSM to trial in a civilian court. If the FBI, the military and our intelligence agencies work together with DOJ, there will be no missteps on technicalities.
If we look at this trial as bringing justice to the victims and survivors of 9/11 we will be successful. If we turn this trial into a political circus of conservatives vs liberals, Obama vs Bush/Cheney for posturing toward a 2012 election, then America will have failed itself as a democracy, it will have failed itself as a civilized nation of the world, and, more importantly it will have failed its citizens.
We have lost several opportunities to show the people of America and the world, that democracy is more than a word, let's not lose another one.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
So what all of you cut and paste shit all the time what's the difference
and I didn't even type out the whole opinion and Cosmo I can think for myself so piss off you're nothing but a jerk who likes to talk shit. All of you should know by now I'm not that articulate. I just thought the author made some really good points,but just as I expected all of you would just focus on the fact that I didn't write it and not the real issue at hand
when i cut and paste, i paste the text, a link to the article, and the author's name. feel free to check my posts because i always cite what i am pasting. you blatantly stole his/her article and passed it off as your own opinion and work. i know people who have failed classes and faced serious penalties at university for doing less than what you have done here. if you liked what the author said, why not say "i agree with what this person said" and post the link or text and leave it at that? it would have been much better than people thinking you are not capable of your own thought.
i do not know why you are attacking Cosmo. Cosmo is a very intelligent and very even handed poster. It was not just Cosmo that knew you did not write it.
i think the right is afraid of going to a real trial because it is going to come out that the CIA disappeared KSM's two children age 6 and 9 and allegedly brought them to america and tortured them to get info about their father. they are still missing to this day apparently. if this is true this is going to blow up in our faces and may implicate people at the highest levels of our last administration including director of the cia at the time, cheney, rice, and bush.
Honestly I don't know how to cut and paste and I did not blatantly steel the link to make it look like my own words.All I know how to do is post a link. Don't you think I knew while I was posting it that you and everyone here were smart enough to realize that those weren't my own words. I was not trying to insult anyone's intelligence. I just thought the author brought up really good points on why KSM and the others shouldn't be tried in a civilian court. I wanted to get others opinions on those points. Im very capable of my own thought Im just not good at writing. I smoked way to much and never went to class.Or was always surfing. I never graduated from high school. I got my GED. So for what it's worth next time If I borrow form another link I will be sure to post by xyz.
As far as Cosmo goes He always attacks me. Or is very condescending towards my post. Just go look at the Heroes thread. Im suprised he didn't attack my grandfather who is a decorated WWII vet .I was a little harsh,and so for that Cosmo I apologize but you do say things sometimes that are really unnecessary .
So what all of you cut and paste shit all the time what's the difference
and I didn't even type out the whole opinion and Cosmo I can think for myself so piss off you're nothing but a jerk who likes to talk shit. All of you should know by now I'm not that articulate. I just thought the author made some really good points,but just as I expected all of you would just focus on the fact that I didn't write it and not the real issue at hand
you have only yourself to blame....if you posted the link along with your cut and paste job, the merits of the article would be discussed, not your passing off something as your own...
also, why you do even come here...? you cry and moan when called out...for some reason you want to get personal and call names...seriously, what grade are you in...?
You're one to talk about calling people names. :roll: You make fun of all the people that attend the Tea parties all the time by calling them Tea baggers. So actually you're insulting others that post here that attend the tea parties and me.But that's ok cos I would rather be a Tea bagger than to be the one getting tea bagged
So what all of you cut and paste shit all the time what's the difference
and I didn't even type out the whole opinion and Cosmo I can think for myself so piss off you're nothing but a jerk who likes to talk shit. All of you should know by now I'm not that articulate. I just thought the author made some really good points,but just as I expected all of you would just focus on the fact that I didn't write it and not the real issue at hand
you have only yourself to blame....if you posted the link along with your cut and paste job, the merits of the article would be discussed, not your passing off something as your own...
also, why you do even come here...? you cry and moan when called out...for some reason you want to get personal and call names...seriously, what grade are you in...?
Oh please spare me... You're one to talk about calling people names. :roll:
i think the right is afraid of going to a real trial because it is going to come out that the CIA disappeared KSM's two children age 6 and 9 and allegedly brought them to america and tortured them to get info about their father. they are still missing to this day apparently. if this is true this is going to blow up in our faces and may implicate people at the highest levels of our last administration including director of the cia at the time, cheney, rice, and bush.
I just cannot imagine a positive outcome to this. As one of the comments below the plagiarized article points out – there are two possible outcomes: KSM will be executed….or, to show the world that the US justice system is actually just and that the methods used to capture, detain, and gain info about him are unacceptable, he will be set free. Either way he wins. He gets executed; he’s a martyr who could inspire radicals the world over. He walks and it could be Rodney King x1000 in the US. That said, this cannot be swept under the rug any longer. I just hope this is done by the book, and not used as another way for the US to manipulate their own systems, people, and world opinion. If (when) he’s found guilty and executed, will this not set very dangerous precedents in American law, considering the methods used to convict?
And you’re right, if the alleged details of his kids’ disappearance are made common knowledge, this could all backfire in the US AND ignite the muslim world.
I can also see this trial going on for years. I mean I imagine most of the shit that went down in Afghanistan is classified not to mention Guantanamo bay. So what happens when his lawyers tried to subpoena a classified document, or try to get Dick Cheney to testify? If they wanted to stall, they could spend years doing that kind of thing.
Honestly I don't know how to cut and paste and I did not blatantly steel the link to make it look like my own words.All I know how to do is post a link. Don't you think I knew while I was posting it that you and everyone here were smart enough to realize that those weren't my own words. I was not trying to insult anyone's intelligence. I just thought the author brought up really good points on why KSM and the others shouldn't be tried in a civilian court. I wanted to get others opinions on those points. Im very capable of my own thought Im just not good at writing. I smoked way to much and never went to class.Or was always surfing. I never graduated from high school. I got my GED. So for what it's worth next time If I borrow form another link I will be sure to post by xyz.
Man, seriously….if you’re trying to apologize, stop defending what you did, esp with lies! This is not even the first time you've done this. I remember a thread in which you posted something that read like it was written by someone else...I called you on it, and the thread was locked shortly thereafter.
You don’t know how to cut and paste? Then how do you know how to post a link? You’re saying you typed all of that out?
You didn’t blatantly steal the link to make it look like your own words? Then why is the word “our” in “our greatest concern”, changed to “MY”…..pretty fucking blatant in my books. I’m sure if I looked deeper there would be other edits.
I don’t doubt that you are capable of thinking for yourself, and it’s important to have opposing views on the board; otherwise it’s just a circle jerk of like-minded people nodding approvals to every post, with no debate…but man…you’re not winning any credibility by posting others’ thoughts as your own, then denying AND defending your actions.
My HS experience is the same as yours, minus the GED…I brought it up originally to point out that poli sci, foreign affairs, world history etc are not topics that I (and I’d guess the majority of posters here) have spent years studying, yet we manage to formulate our own thoughts and avoid name calling…not to give you an excuse for your actions.
You don’t know how to cut and paste? Then how do you know how to post a link? You’re saying you typed all of that out?
Honestly I really don't know how to cut and paste. just ask Drifting he tried to explain it to me but I didn't' understand wtf he was talking about. And yes I did type all that out and it took me like 15 minutes. Not to mention I bought one of the digital down loads from the goods secetion and I can't even find the damn thing on my pc.
You didn’t blatantly steal the link to make it look like your own words? Then why is the word “our” in “our greatest concern”, changed to “MY”…..pretty fucking blatant in my books. I’m sure if I looked deeper there would be other edits.
Look man I told you for the 3rd time, everyone on this board knows that Im not that articulate nor do I have a law degree. So If you think that those were my intentions you're sadly mistaken.The op ed piece has 15 paragraphs I copied 4 from it because they were excellent points Imo. And if you want to ream me for it than go ahead. and yeah I have read others opinions and then use my own words after looking at the facts.I would be willing to bet people do this all the time on here in one form or another. Maybe Im wrong
You don’t know how to cut and paste? Then how do you know how to post a link? You’re saying you typed all of that out?
Honestly I really don't know how to cut and paste. just ask Drifting he tried to explain it to me but I didn't' understand wtf he was talking about. And yes I did type all that out and it took me like 15 minutes. Not to mention I bought one of the digital down loads from the goods secetion and I can't even find the damn thing on my pc.
I don't know why you're arguing; I'm not doing this just to make you look like an idiot - in fact, I feel kinda bad about the whole thing. but I wont' just let this kinda stuff fly, for the reasons i've already stated....and no, I dont' think anyone else does that here...not any of the regs anyway. If they do, they're better at it.
anyway, I'm not gonna keep rubbin your nose in it. keep on keepin on amigo...just give credit where its due and no worries.
You didn’t blatantly steal the link to make it look like your own words? Then why is the word “our” in “our greatest concern”, changed to “MY”…..pretty fucking blatant in my books. I’m sure if I looked deeper there would be other edits.
Look man I told you for the 3rd time, everyone on this board knows that Im not that articulate nor do I have a law degree. So If you think that those were my intentions you're sadly mistaken.The op ed piece has 15 paragraphs I copied 4 from it because they were excellent points Imo. And if you want to ream me for it than go ahead. and yeah I have read others opinions and then use my own words after looking at the facts.I would be willing to bet people do this all the time on here in one form or another. Maybe Im wrong
Obama says they will be convicted...hmmm so why have a trial... just as you say... Obama could give a rats ass about this country...his main goal is to please the world not his country.....This man is selfserving
brandon10 ...I think the PJ song insignificance was made to describe your posts. Your thoughtless blabber gets old fast.
Do us a favour, when you finally post something that you actually thought up without Glen Beck telling you what to say....let us know. We'll throw a party.
brandon10 ...... Are you trying to hurt my feelings :yawn: or just showing your ignorance?... :oops: .....
Post edited by aerial on
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
I hope this help...cut and paste is the greatest thing since sliced bread...
Hey... Thanks man this is the nicest thing anyone has ever done for me on here, Damn I didn't realize it was that easy. Now if I could just find out where the hell that L.A. down load went to. I bet you're probably thinking Oh shit what have I done.
My greatest concern is that it will be a shambles of a show trial that ignores all established legal precedent.the ramifications of that could be worse than terrorism itself. None of the prerequisites exist for a fair trial in the case of terrorist captured overseas by intelligence agents.
For example, just for starters what objective proof do we have that the individual who will show up in the courtroom is actually the KSM who planned 911? What do we do if he simply asserts he is not the person the Gov.. claims he is ?
What about chain of evidence ? KSM wasn't captured by civil law enforcement ,but by our military who were fighting a war,not gathering evidence. Did they carefully log every piece of evidence and log every time someone touched it. How will the prosecution refute a claim that evidence was tampered with ?
what about KSM being water-boarded ? In a normal civil trial that would make his confession entirely inadmissible.Even if the jury knows of the confession external to the trial,an honest jury member would have to disregard such information. If the confession is allowed against all precedent,the jury could honestly
disregard it just as they would in any proven instance of police brutality.
A civil defendant has the right to face his accusers. Are we going to force intelligence officers and special agents to reveal their identities in open court ? If we don't,how do we prove that the Gov. witnesses are real people and that they are telling the truth about real people ? The defendant also has the right examine any and all evidence. So why not just let KSM and his defense team examine the the internals of the software and hardware we use to track enemy communications.
These and other factors could all combine create a plausible defense that simply says that all the evidence presented was fabricated by the GOVernment . Such fabrication does occur in much less prominent,so a jury cannot disregard the possibility it could occur in such a high profile case. So how could the Gov. objectively refute such a claim when it employed none of the safeguards used by civil law enforcement ?
These are all real concerns (and I don't care how it was posted). Why are enemy combatants given the same rights as American citizens. It nauseates me that we the people of this country have to pay for this foreign terrorist murders defense.
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
Obama says they will be convicted...hmmm so why have a trial
tell me aerial, what would you have preferred your president to say? that he has no faith in the justice system?
damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
the GOP is shitting themselves at the thought of KSM's trial being held in the fed court system. i wonder why that might be aerial? why are they so damn afraid? isn't there already over 300 tried and convicted terrorists currently in custody, including those responsible for the 93 WTC bombing?
of course it wouldn't have anything to do with all the lies that were told by bush and co, and more of them being made public now, would it?
That is not the point here....This has never been done in the history of our country...If they had to do this (BIG IF) why not do it behind closed doors...you know the way they wrote the latest healthcare bill?..... Seems they do not care about the security of our country....
Post edited by aerial on
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
My greatest concern is that it will be a shambles of a show trial that ignores all established legal precedent.the ramifications of that could be worse than terrorism itself. None of the prerequisites exist for a fair trial in the case of terrorist captured overseas by intelligence agents.
For example, just for starters what objective proof do we have that the individual who will show up in the courtroom is actually the KSM who planned 911? What do we do if he simply asserts he is not the person the Gov.. claims he is ?
What about chain of evidence ? KSM wasn't captured by civil law enforcement ,but by our military who were fighting a war,not gathering evidence. Did they carefully log every piece of evidence and log every time someone touched it. How will the prosecution refute a claim that evidence was tampered with ?
what about KSM being water-boarded ? In a normal civil trial that would make his confession entirely inadmissible.Even if the jury knows of the confession external to the trial,an honest jury member would have to disregard such information. If the confession is allowed against all precedent,the jury could honestly
disregard it just as they would in any proven instance of police brutality.
A civil defendant has the right to face his accusers. Are we going to force intelligence officers and special agents to reveal their identities in open court ? If we don't,how do we prove that the Gov. witnesses are real people and that they are telling the truth about real people ? The defendant also has the right examine any and all evidence. So why not just let KSM and his defense team examine the the internals of the software and hardware we use to track enemy communications.
These and other factors could all combine create a plausible defense that simply says that all the evidence presented was fabricated by the GOVernment . Such fabrication does occur in much less prominent,so a jury cannot disregard the possibility it could occur in such a high profile case. So how could the Gov. objectively refute such a claim when it employed none of the safeguards used by civil law enforcement ?
These are all real concerns (and I don't care how it was posted). Why are enemy combatants given the same rights as American citizens. It nauseates me that we the people of this country have to pay for this foreign terrorist murders defense.
it probably has something to do with the fact that they are human beings, and in the eyes of the law no matter how bad you wish it was not true, but being human trumps nationality or religion.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Comments
I enjoy reading posts in the MT once in a while and don't feel compelled to post here, but I'll make an exception cause this made me shoot cola out of my nose.
That is some funny shit. "YOUR greatest concern"
Thank you for the laugh.
Busted.
Proof that independent thinking and critical thought is not in his arsenal. His greatest weapon against us 'Liberal, America hating, Kool-Aid drinking, Obama loving, socialist, commie Nazis' is plagerism.
Unless, of course, his name is Shannon Love and he has a vagina. If that is the case... nevermind.
Hail, Hail!!!
I can't find on that site if Shannon Love is male or female. Shannon, originally was a male name.
Not that I believe our friend here is this Shannon Love person, but just on the name alone we can't rule it out.
hahahahahahaha
Actually... you are correct. Shannon is one of those names that is gender neutral, like Pat or Chris or Jean. And the more I read Shannon Love's blog... I figured out he is a guy. An older guy... probably Viet Nam Era... and pretty well versed. Opposite of many of my points of view, but I think I'd like to discuss things with him.
Definately... NOT our guy. For one, he understands why the Bail-outs were required and why Executives deserve the pay they get and I'm guessing doesn't listen to Pearl Jam. And I have a feeling, Shannon doesn't seem to be the kind of person who'd watch FOX News for anything other than fuel for humourous commentary about broadcast 'journalism'.
Hail, Hail!!!
I think the PJ song insignificance was made to describe your posts. Your thoughtless blabber gets old fast.
Do us a favour, when you finally post something that you actually thought up without Glen Beck telling you what to say....let us know. We'll throw a party.
damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
the GOP is shitting themselves at the thought of KSM's trial being held in the fed court system. i wonder why that might be aerial? why are they so damn afraid? isn't there already over 300 tried and convicted terrorists currently in custody, including those responsible for the 93 WTC bombing?
of course it wouldn't have anything to do with all the lies that were told by bush and co, and more of them being made public now, would it?
and I didn't even type out the whole opinion and Cosmo I can think for myself so piss off you're nothing but a jerk who likes to talk shit. All of you should know by now I'm not that articulate. I just thought the author made some really good points,but just as I expected all of you would just focus on the fact that I didn't write it and not the real issue at hand
when i cut and paste, i paste the text, a link to the article, and the author's name. feel free to check my posts because i always cite what i am pasting. you blatantly stole his/her article and passed it off as your own opinion and work. i know people who have failed classes and faced serious penalties at university for doing less than what you have done here. if you liked what the author said, why not say "i agree with what this person said" and post the link or text and leave it at that? it would have been much better than people thinking you are not capable of your own thought.
i do not know why you are attacking Cosmo. Cosmo is a very intelligent and very even handed poster. It was not just Cosmo that knew you did not write it.
i think the right is afraid of going to a real trial because it is going to come out that the CIA disappeared KSM's two children age 6 and 9 and allegedly brought them to america and tortured them to get info about their father. they are still missing to this day apparently. if this is true this is going to blow up in our faces and may implicate people at the highest levels of our last administration including director of the cia at the time, cheney, rice, and bush.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
And you’re right, if the alleged details of his kids’ disappearance are made common knowledge, this could all backfire in the US AND ignite the muslim world.
i think you are right here. there is no good outcome. if he gets off it will be rodney king times a million. if he is executed he will ba a martyr and an inspiration to the next several generation of jihadis. BUT we will have nobody to blame but the people that screwed up the investigation and the case. everything we did to him is severely illegal and most of it is against the geneva convention and international law so maybe bush and cheney will become accomplices after the fact and see their own trial?
i did a google search fos Khalid shiek mohammad kids and a bunch of articles popped up. nothing was official looking though. it was too much for me to go through here at work. if i find anythig reputable i will post it. anyone else is welcome to look into that claim and post it for us if they are so inclined.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
you have only yourself to blame....if you posted the link along with your cut and paste job, the merits of the article would be discussed, not your passing off something as your own...
also, why you do even come here...? you cry and moan when called out...for some reason you want to get personal and call names...seriously, what grade are you in...?
Not all Gitmo detainees will be tried in civilian courts, but there's enough evidence to bring KSM to trial in a civilian court. If the FBI, the military and our intelligence agencies work together with DOJ, there will be no missteps on technicalities.
If we look at this trial as bringing justice to the victims and survivors of 9/11 we will be successful. If we turn this trial into a political circus of conservatives vs liberals, Obama vs Bush/Cheney for posturing toward a 2012 election, then America will have failed itself as a democracy, it will have failed itself as a civilized nation of the world, and, more importantly it will have failed its citizens.
We have lost several opportunities to show the people of America and the world, that democracy is more than a word, let's not lose another one.
Honestly I don't know how to cut and paste and I did not blatantly steel the link to make it look like my own words.All I know how to do is post a link. Don't you think I knew while I was posting it that you and everyone here were smart enough to realize that those weren't my own words. I was not trying to insult anyone's intelligence. I just thought the author brought up really good points on why KSM and the others shouldn't be tried in a civilian court. I wanted to get others opinions on those points. Im very capable of my own thought Im just not good at writing. I smoked way to much and never went to class.Or was always surfing. I never graduated from high school. I got my GED. So for what it's worth next time If I borrow form another link I will be sure to post by xyz.
As far as Cosmo goes He always attacks me. Or is very condescending towards my post. Just go look at the Heroes thread. Im suprised he didn't attack my grandfather who is a decorated WWII vet .I was a little harsh,and so for that Cosmo I apologize but you do say things sometimes that are really unnecessary .
You're one to talk about calling people names. :roll: You make fun of all the people that attend the Tea parties all the time by calling them Tea baggers. So actually you're insulting others that post here that attend the tea parties and me.But that's ok cos I would rather be a Tea bagger than to be the one getting tea bagged
edit...
I can also see this trial going on for years. I mean I imagine most of the shit that went down in Afghanistan is classified not to mention Guantanamo bay. So what happens when his lawyers tried to subpoena a classified document, or try to get Dick Cheney to testify? If they wanted to stall, they could spend years doing that kind of thing.
You don’t know how to cut and paste? Then how do you know how to post a link? You’re saying you typed all of that out?
You didn’t blatantly steal the link to make it look like your own words? Then why is the word “our” in “our greatest concern”, changed to “MY”…..pretty fucking blatant in my books. I’m sure if I looked deeper there would be other edits.
I don’t doubt that you are capable of thinking for yourself, and it’s important to have opposing views on the board; otherwise it’s just a circle jerk of like-minded people nodding approvals to every post, with no debate…but man…you’re not winning any credibility by posting others’ thoughts as your own, then denying AND defending your actions.
My HS experience is the same as yours, minus the GED…I brought it up originally to point out that poli sci, foreign affairs, world history etc are not topics that I (and I’d guess the majority of posters here) have spent years studying, yet we manage to formulate our own thoughts and avoid name calling…not to give you an excuse for your actions.
:? Not sure what that means.
Look man I told you for the 3rd time, everyone on this board knows that Im not that articulate nor do I have a law degree. So If you think that those were my intentions you're sadly mistaken.The op ed piece has 15 paragraphs I copied 4 from it because they were excellent points Imo. And if you want to ream me for it than go ahead. and yeah I have read others opinions and then use my own words after looking at the facts.I would be willing to bet people do this all the time on here in one form or another. Maybe Im wrong
I don't know why you're arguing; I'm not doing this just to make you look like an idiot - in fact, I feel kinda bad about the whole thing. but I wont' just let this kinda stuff fly, for the reasons i've already stated....and no, I dont' think anyone else does that here...not any of the regs anyway. If they do, they're better at it.
anyway, I'm not gonna keep rubbin your nose in it. keep on keepin on amigo...just give credit where its due and no worries.
here you go, my friend...
http://www.virtualgravy.com/copyandpaste.htm
http://www.tips4pc.com/Articles/Video%2 ... to_cut.htm
I hope this help...cut and paste is the greatest thing since sliced bread... :thumbup:
Hey... Thanks man this is the nicest thing anyone has ever done for me on here,
These are all real concerns (and I don't care how it was posted). Why are enemy combatants given the same rights as American citizens. It nauseates me that we the people of this country have to pay for this foreign terrorist murders defense.
it probably has something to do with the fact that they are human beings, and in the eyes of the law no matter how bad you wish it was not true, but being human trumps nationality or religion.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."