ALL of this, imo, ties back to our baser, instinctual animal instincts. how does our species survive? what social constructs best push forward the group, not the individual? survival of the species in not dependent necessarily on any one individual specifically, but on the overall collective of the species. humans are very much pack animals on many levels, thus bowing to authority, and/or bowing to a group mentality is unsurprising to see time and again, within the norms of behaviors. studying human behavior, and other animal behavior....seeing the vast similarities and differences, is amazingly fascinating. hell, even just observing this board at times, the pack/group mentality is alive and well. there are pros and cons to all behaviors, and that mentality is no exception i believe.
And I would still bet that 999/1000 police do their job and do it well to protect their citizens. Those incidents mentioned are horrific, however, there are good and bad at every job.
And you use an example of a fictional TV show to back up your ideas. Alrighty then.
Yeah... And if you think of the hundreds of interactions with the public everyday that each and every cop has, the total number of interactions have to be mind-boggling... Compare that to the small number of bad (sometimes heinous) incidents, and the percentage has to be a fraction of a percentage point.
And yeah, as soon as someone brings up a TV show as evidence, it really makes an argument valid :roll:
Yeah... I'm an 18 year old kid. I've had a few experiences with the cops for regular things (drinking in a park, parties, what have you). I've never had a bad experience with them. It's a bit of a buzz kill, but they're just doing their job. I've talked to all my friends (black, white, Asian, middle eastern) and all have had similar experiences. Even the ones that got a little roughed up said they deserved it, they were drunk and popping off.
Yes, there are bad cops, just like there are bad people. I'm damn glad there's a decent police presence when I'm walking home, drunk as fuck, at 2 am after a party.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
it's interesting to me that we call ourselves "the feeling mammal", and yet many of us have become more and more detached from emotion as we evolve.
and why in God's name would you feel guilty about calling the cops on someone breaking into your house? Is it because you are assuming a person breaking into your house would defnitely be black? What if the criminal was a white guy/girl? Would you still feel guilty?
Why feel guilty at all? I don't give a shit what colour/sex/type of dog you are if you're breaking into my house, you're getting a beatdown. I treat all idiots equally.
this story is absolutely disgusting. I can't imagine, study or no study, seeing this happen and NOT doing something, at the very least calling the police.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
And I would still bet that 999/1000 police do their job and do it well to protect their citizens. Those incidents mentioned are horrific, however, there are good and bad at every job.
And you use an example of a fictional TV show to back up your ideas. Alrighty then.
Yeah... And if you think of the hundreds of interactions with the public everyday that each and every cop has, the total number of interactions have to be mind-boggling... Compare that to the small number of bad (sometimes heinous) incidents, and the percentage has to be a fraction of a percentage point.
And yeah, as soon as someone brings up a TV show as evidence, it really makes an argument valid :roll:
Yeah... I'm an 18 year old kid. I've had a few experiences with the cops for regular things (drinking in a park, parties, what have you). I've never had a bad experience with them. It's a bit of a buzz kill, but they're just doing their job. I've talked to all my friends (black, white, Asian, middle eastern) and all have had similar experiences. Even the ones that got a little roughed up said they deserved it, they were drunk and popping off.
Yes, there are bad cops, just like there are bad people. I'm damn glad there's a decent police presence when I'm walking home, drunk as fuck, at 2 am after a party.
very well said. I agree completely. Every time I've had a run-in with a cop, it's been deserved on my part.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Yeah, who am I to bitch at a cop who gives me shit for drinking in a park? One's I've talked to have said if the kid is polite and honest, they'll just send him home, which has happened to me every time.
If I sit calling him a pig, I'll probably get fined and thrown in the back of the cruiser.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
Yeah, who am I to bitch at a cop who gives me shit for drinking in a park? One's I've talked to have said if the kid is polite and honest, they'll just send him home, which has happened to me every time.
If I sit calling him a pig, I'll probably get fined and thrown in the back of the cruiser.
i got popped for drunk driving once and i was a complete asshole to this cop. talking shit, yelling about calling lawyers and getting screwed. i give the guy massive credit for not busting my head. he kept his cool and treated me far more decently than he had to.
i seriously doubt he's ever had a run-in with any cops. he just considers himself the only white man who truly understands the plight of the black man, thanks to hip hop and the wire. what that has to do with this story i have no idea. this isn't about race. i don't even know how everyone jumped to the conclusion these were black males. if he wants to talk about the evils of cops and racial profiling... interesting that HE is the one that immediately assumes the perps were all black and were just fighting some war against the evil racist man by not reporting this rape.
To be fair to the poster he was commenting on somebody elses post regarding people avoiding snitch behavior
sadly, i am unsurprised.
there is actually a psych term, which now escapes me, for this very phenomenon. people do 'nothing' b/c they think someone else will do something. that, coupled with fears for themselves. it truly is amazing.
have you never seen the film the accused? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094608/ jodi foster starred. based on a true story of rape and people watching/doing nothing. it truly is not uncommon.
as far as any "blame" for the parents, i'd be careful there. from the article it reads as though the father was to pick his daughter up at the dance, and before that happened friends of hers asked her to another spot to drink. idk what else a parent can do besides arrange to pick up their child at a set time for such an event.
bottomline, it is tragic and disgusting what happened to this girl.
I'm a social worker and I just refer to it as "group think". One college class I was in did an experiment where we got into groups and planned a day that we would, as a group, do something we wouldn't if alone. My group decided to wear pajamas to school. Well, getting to school and to the rest of my group was tough, cuz I was alone therefore no "group think". People looked at me odd and I felt odd. But, once with the group, I felt fine and people didn't look at me so odd, cuz it was obvious a planned thing and not just me being crazy.
People accepted us as a group, but not me alone, and I even accepted myself, if I was with the rest of the group, who was doing what I was doing.
I did see that movie with Jodi Foster. It was quite dramatic.
I am also reminded of my bf and how many times we have fought over me getting involved in something where he thinks we should mind our own business. One instance was when I heard a lady screaming in the house behind me so I stepped out to see if someone was getting hurt. He bitched before I even went out saying things like I will get hurt and someone else will call, etc. I argued back that we are that someone else. By the way, no one was getting hurt, they were horsing around.
Another was when i caught the guy across the street breaking into the 91 yr old lady next to me home. I called cops. Again he said I would become known as the 'cop caller" on the street. I asked him just when I have ever called the cops. We argued but I still did what i could sleep with. It did cause me problems on my street cuz this guy actually helps this lady out, ie, shovels her walk, cuts her grass, rakes leaves, but he does that at a high rate of cash. Anyway, regardless of how he helps her he also has broke into her home at least once and tried to the second time when I caught him. My other neighbors and his wife didn't believe me and I became quite a talk of the town. This just happened a few months back and there is still gossip. I don't give a shit. He did what he did. His wife and I talked and she thinks I am mistaken and how good it is he didn't go to jail cuz of my error. There was no error. I watched him walk out her home once when she wasn't home and then tried to get a second time, when i called the cops.
My kids also do whatever they feel they need to. My daughter and niece once saw a man steal a lady's purse from her arm and then the guy ran into the city of detroit. (We live on the border and its a world of difference on the other side of 8 mile rd.) The girsl didn't care of the danger and went with their car and trapped the guy in an alley with the car while calling and waiting for cops. It was such a dangerous place where they caught him. I was proud and worried.
Geez, I remember so many times the person with me has told me to mind my own business when I saw something that I thought someone needed help. I know the danger but I also know I look at myself in that mirror.
I know that I would want someone to help me if in trouble. Do unto others, etc. That alone would make this world so much better. I know the people who live around me know I will take action, therefore, they feel safer and also won't commit crimes to each other if they think I can see.
To be fair to the poster he was commenting on somebody elses post regarding people avoiding snitch behavior
...
Yeah... that was me.
I wasn't commenting on racial issues, police brutality, inner city poverty, racial injustice or anything like that. I was just commenting on the perception by people... of different races, economic classes, religious backgrounds, urban or suburban lifestyles... that have this moronic impression that it is worse to report a criminal act, than the criminal act itself.
In this specific case, calling the cops wasn't the only option open to them... there were probably several options available. There were adults at the dance, I am guessing. Why couldn't just one of those assholes have gone back into the dance and told someone? I'm also guessing that there were more than one cell phones in the pockets or purses of one of the witnesses... not one of them had the common or moral decency to dial 9-1-1?
Even in this Pearl Jam Message forum... I remember a thread by some douchebag writing about witnessing an armed robbery of a store. When I asked if he'd called 9-1-1, he responded that he wasn't a snitch. When I said I'd drop a dime on their asses in a second... I was called a snitch by many other members. That type of mentality sickens me. The same way the asshole at the flight school in Florida did not report Mohammed Atta and his cohorts taking flying lessons... but, had no interest in take-offs or landings. The flight instructor in Michigan reported this suspecious behaviour... I guess he was a snitch, while the Florida instructor was a stand up guy? Is that the truth?
Yeah... tattling on your brother because I accidentally burned the rug while playing with matches is one thing... and reporting an hour long rape in progress is something else. It's not being a hypocrit... it's being a person who cares about the well being of another human in distress. Leastwise, that's how i see it.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I am also reminded of my bf and how many times we have fought over me getting involved in something where he thinks we should mind our own business. One instance was when I heard a lady screaming in the house behind me so I stepped out to see if someone was getting hurt. He bitched before I even went out saying things like I will get hurt and someone else will call, etc. I argued back that we are that someone else. By the way, no one was getting hurt, they were horsing around.
Another was when i caught the guy across the street breaking into the 91 yr old lady next to me home. I called cops. Again he said I would become known as the 'cop caller" on the street. I asked him just when I have ever called the cops. We argued but I still did what i could sleep with. It did cause me problems on my street cuz this guy actually helps this lady out, ie, shovels her walk, cuts her grass, rakes leaves, but he does that at a high rate of cash. Anyway, regardless of how he helps her he also has broke into her home at least once and tried to the second time when I caught him. My other neighbors and his wife didn't believe me and I became quite a talk of the town. This just happened a few months back and there is still gossip. I don't give a shit. He did what he did. His wife and I talked and she thinks I am mistaken and how good it is he didn't go to jail cuz of my error. There was no error. I watched him walk out her home once when she wasn't home and then tried to get a second time, when i called the cops.
My kids also do whatever they feel they need to. My daughter and niece once saw a man steal a lady's purse from her arm and then the guy ran into the city of detroit. (We live on the border and its a world of difference on the other side of 8 mile rd.) The girsl didn't care of the danger and went with their car and trapped the guy in an alley with the car while calling and waiting for cops. It was such a dangerous place where they caught him. I was proud and worried.
Geez, I remember so many times the person with me has told me to mind my own business when I saw something that I thought someone needed help. I know the danger but I also know I look at myself in that mirror.
I know that I would want someone to help me if in trouble. Do unto others, etc. That alone would make this world so much better. I know the people who live around me know I will take action, therefore, they feel safer and also won't commit crimes to each other if they think I can see.
...
I was driving down the street in my suburban neighborhood, when I saw three teenaged kids outside the schoolyard. There were bicycles and Razor scooters on the ground and a bigger kid was wailing on a smaller kid, curled up in a ball on the sidewalk (the third kid was standing there watching).
So, I pull over, get out and yell at the kids, "Hey!!! Hey, what the Hell is wrong with you?". The fight stops and the kid giving the beat down said the smaller kid was his brother. So, i asked the smaller kid if this was true... he said, yeah the older kid was his big brother.
So... I looked at them and said, "Okay... carry on"... got back in my car and drove off. Brothers of that age fight all the time... I know, I'm a brother that has been on both sides of a fight like that.
Point is... I thought is was something serious.... and I'm glad I stopped. Just in case it was something serious.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I dont think the "dont be a snitch" mentality had a damn thing to do with this. Its a non issue. The no snitching thing came about from the inner city, this factual idea that police target black youth, and that as prisons are overwhelmingly and disproportionatley black and latino males, it makes sense, that people would have this guard up in those cases. If you know police especially those who patrol the inner city are corrupt, racist, and engage in the kind of murderous activity that notorious organizations like NY and LA's finest who will rape, or kill any blacks on site for merely being black. So yeah I can understand and identify with the no snitching idea. Why cooperate in an investigation with police if the police from the start are racist cowards?
This rape at the school had nothing to do with that
Its not helping the cops, its helping the victim. I do not have great feelings about cops, but to give them info to lock up someone who is a threat to myself and people around me is helping me not the cops.
I hate the idea of "no snitching". In a post I just posted I wrote about calling the cops on the guy across the street. The "being a snitch" thing is what some of my neighbors are thinking and talking about behind my back, however, he was robbing a 91 yr. old lady, and it appears he has been doing this over a long period of time. She trusted him totally. He took advantage of that. I talked to him before I called and we had a huge argument. I think he did one of the worse things I can imagine, (and I have 2 freinds in jail for murder). She so trusted him. He knew her hours, where she was at all times, and when she'd be home. She thought of him as a grandson. If he'd of admitted it all to me right away, no cops would have been involved. He chose to have it the way I did it. I was not a snitch. He didn't go to jail, but I am quite sure he won't be breaking into her home anymore. I don't see how the cops were helped at all. Actually, they'd rather not do the paper work, etc.
I was helping the old lady and everyone in the neighborhood. I do not want to live in a crime ime infested area.
Yes, I will do my part to keep my area as safe as possible. If everyone would do so and not be a chickenshit, we could have a nice place to live where we feel secure.
Oh, and I am reminded., the guy I called the cops on about the old lady saw 4 guys out one night peering into people's cars for things to steal. He called the cops and they were all caught!
Wouldn't it be nice if that kind of "group think" got contagious around here? You know, peer pressure works both ways. It just doesn't have to be bad things that peers pressure others about, but peers can pressure for good things.
We hear the phrase "peer pressure" a lot when teens get in trouble, but why not use it positive. Lets use pressure to get people to do the right thing. The guy across the street was very proud of himself about calling the cops and the thiefs getting caught. (It was in the newspaper). So, lots of us are prasing him. Aha, good peer pressure!
I have given money to, and protested for the release of Mumia. I have attended a birthday celebration for, and given money to, and protested for the release of leonard peltier. I have given money to, and have spoken out for the release of the WM3.
I also am a sociology major. and as a sociology major I know all about the injustice system, or if a black male was speaking the "just us" system. as I said over 2 million people in prison. over 1 million of those are black males, in prison for nonviolent drug offences.
I am aware of the cases of Amadou Diallo where police shot an unarmed man 41 times, the bullet holes in the soles of his feet indicate they continued to shoot even as he fell, all because they thought his wallet was a gun. I have watched for myself the tape of Rodney King being beaten, I have also seen footage of pigs in Cincinnati beating to death a 300 pound black man, even as he lay on the ground, screaming that they were hurting him.
I know in my hometown that Jeff Luers, set fire to 3 SUV's, simple case of arson, and was sentenced to 22 years.
One of my college professors sons friends (hows that for a namedrop), had psychological problems, and police were called to his street, he was out in the middle of the street. Multiple pigs, with guns, stun guns, mase, batons, handcuffs etc..., and the kid had a knife. The police say the kid lunged at the police. They shot him to death. A kid. Police had so many other options. Why not just mase the guy, he obviously couldnt use a knife if he couldnt see! Or why not just fire a warning shot, or shoot him in the toe or something minor? Why shoot to kill?
As a history buff, I also know that one should pick any social movement, women's liberation and suffrage, civil rights, environmentalism, antiwar, immigration rights, indigeonous rights, labor rights, antiwto and anti nafta/cafta, and in every single movement and social movement, the police view the protestors as threats and in cases like Seattle in 99, or Chicago in 68, or LA in 2000, they blatantly beat the hell out of people, or mase people just for the hell of it.
Police are brutal by nature. I have no respect for someone like that. Someone who carries that much armor (mase, guns, tasers, battons) and feels the need to murder someone because their WALLET looks like a gun? I mean come on!
So yeah I have problems with the police.
In my very first social work class, they split the class half and half between criminal justice students and social work students. Then they put us in groups of 6, half and half. They'd present us with various cases and as a group we'd try to come up with solutions. It was so odd. Right from the start the criminal justice students would usually come up with some form of punishment for whatever the situation was and social work students would come up with therapy, teaching, etc. All of us were in our first class in our fields, yet we'd all think either punishment or some kind of therpuetic help coinciding with whatever our chosen field was. It seemed we all had it within our blood what we were in school for. Like, criminal justice students had the punishment idea already in them before even having classses and social wokers already knew they wanted people to get help.
It was a great experiment for me. I got to see first hand that we all chose our fields out of something that was already within us.
So, I know that cops are thinking punishment from the start. I know its not all of them, but that class showed me its the majority. So, it should be no surprise when we hear of cops over doing it when capturing criminals.
Also, if I had a job that consisted day after day of dealing with people using all the defense mechanisms they have and knowing the desperation most have, I would rather let a judge figure things out and me go home with some kind of sanity and safe. I cannot imagine putting up with all that crap day after day. They don't make enough money to have to try and outwit people all the time.
So, as much as I do not like cops, I do understand why we see the horrendous things they often do.
Its the judges who have to figure it all out. We usually leave them out of it all when discussing these things, yet it is them who let some people go and lock up others. And even they have to put up with all the politics that go on daily in courts.
Its amazing that the justice system works at all. For us, if you happen to get arrested, its a big deal and we want the system to work, yet its doubtful it will ever work and we will get true justice. In the court room, the arena of people who work within them do it all day, every day, its doubtful true justice will ever occur at all.
...
Yeah... that was me.
I wasn't commenting on racial issues, police brutality, inner city poverty, racial injustice or anything like that. I was just commenting on the perception by people... of different races, economic classes, religious backgrounds, urban or suburban lifestyles... that have this moronic impression that it is worse to report a criminal act, than the criminal act itself.
In this specific case, calling the cops wasn't the only option open to them... there were probably several options available. There were adults at the dance, I am guessing. Why couldn't just one of those assholes have gone back into the dance and told someone? I'm also guessing that there were more than one cell phones in the pockets or purses of one of the witnesses... not one of them had the common or moral decency to dial 9-1-1?
Even in this Pearl Jam Message forum... I remember a thread by some douchebag writing about witnessing an armed robbery of a store. When I asked if he'd called 9-1-1, he responded that he wasn't a snitch. When I said I'd drop a dime on their asses in a second... I was called a snitch by many other members. That type of mentality sickens me. The same way the asshole at the flight school in Florida did not report Mohammed Atta and his cohorts taking flying lessons... but, had no interest in take-offs or landings. The flight instructor in Michigan reported this suspecious behaviour... I guess he was a snitch, while the Florida instructor was a stand up guy? Is that the truth?
Yeah... tattling on your brother because I accidentally burned the rug while playing with matches is one thing... and reporting an hour long rape in progress is something else. It's not being a hypocrit... it's being a person who cares about the well being of another human in distress. Leastwise, that's how i see it.
I'm not disagreeing with you just pointing out why he was commenting on snitching. If I was there I wouldn't think twice about calling the cops and I'd probably intervene with a brick to the head of the first guy I come across.
when faced with the chance of harm coming to you in the same way flee vs fight really kicks in.
I was in a similar situation in college (not rape and not even comparing this to rape- rape is 1000 times worse)
a group of 6 friends including myself were walking to the gym in college to go play wally ball (man it is fun). Some guys comes up to one of our friends and jacks him in the face, and hits him one or two more times and kicks him on the ground. None of us do a thing at first, then one of us goes to get in between saying to the guy hey man c'mon stop, he turns and jacks number friend two in the face. By then the rest of us should all have jumped his ass and beat the crap out of him, but we didn't. We were all scared shitless this guy would beat our ass too if we interfered.
One the dude was huge doing the ass kicking, two he was seriously jacked up on something, he walked right through all 5 of us to get to him. No cell phones to call cops or nothing at that point in history so just us and him.
I remember it to this day we all looked at each after wards and said we were were total pussies and let the other two down (we were and did)
But faced with the same situation what would you do?
I think the same sense of preserve thyself was prevalent in each case.
Do those guys have a gun or knife, will they use it on me too? Must surely have been running through their heads (though I have not and won't watch the video). If I do something will they then come to do the same to my family? Will they wait for revenge later? Should I maybe die for a stranger? All questions I am sure they pndered.
I know at the very least I would have called the cops beyond that I can't say what I would do.
I think it is horrid, disgusting what happened, but I don't know what I would have done in this situation at that moment. I'd like to believe I'd go help her, but when push came to shove would I have done it?
I was in a similar situation in college (not rape and not even comparing this to rape- rape is 1000 times worse)
a group of 6 friends including myself were walking to the gym in college to go play wally ball (man it is fun). Some guys comes up to one of our friends and jacks him in the face, and hits him one or two more times and kicks him on the ground. None of us do a thing at first, then one of us goes to get in between saying to the guy hey man c'mon stop, he turns and jacks number friend two in the face. By then the rest of us should all have jumped his ass and beat the crap out of him, but we didn't. We were all scared shitless this guy would beat our ass too if we interfered.
One the dude was huge doing the ass kicking, two he was seriously jacked up on something, he walked right through all 5 of us to get to him. No cell phones to call cops or nothing at that point in history so just us and him.
I remember it to this day we all looked at each after wards and said we were were total pussies and let the other two down (we were and did)
But faced with the same situation what would you do?
I think the same sense of preserve thyself was prevalent in each case.
Do those guys have a gun or knife, will they use it on me too? Must surely have been running through their heads (though I have not and won't watch the video). If I do something will they then come to do the same to my family? Will they wait for revenge later? Should I maybe die for a stranger? All questions I am sure they pndered.
In any defensive situation I would definitely go all in. If my friend was the offender I'd let him take a beat down to learn.
Besides how do you know they wouldn't set on you after they're done with your friend? Its best you fight while you have numbers. And even the biggest guy can go down with one strike. There are many pressure points in the human body that muscle can never protect. But I guess the question remains are you morally capable of inflicting such a strike on another person?
It also depends on how much experience you've had with these types of situations. If you've been in a fight before its exponentially easier to get into another one because you've been tested and know what your capable of.
Plus getting beat down is easier if its happened before
I'm not disagreeing with you just pointing out why he was commenting on snitching. If I was there I wouldn't think twice about calling the cops and I'd probably intervene with a brick to the head of the first guy I come across.
I feel the same way, incidentially. I do not understand the "stand around and do nothing" behavior from a personal perspective, even if there are many social psychological reasons that people fail to intervene (e.g., diffusion of responsbility, fear of social judgment, etc.). How does a person film such a thing using a phone but not dial the damn numbers?! Pretty profane stuff. I'd have an easier time living with myself if I did intervene (and perhaps risk a beating) than if I did squat.
Comments
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Yes, there are bad cops, just like there are bad people. I'm damn glad there's a decent police presence when I'm walking home, drunk as fuck, at 2 am after a party.
and why in God's name would you feel guilty about calling the cops on someone breaking into your house? Is it because you are assuming a person breaking into your house would defnitely be black? What if the criminal was a white guy/girl? Would you still feel guilty?
Why feel guilty at all? I don't give a shit what colour/sex/type of dog you are if you're breaking into my house, you're getting a beatdown. I treat all idiots equally.
this story is absolutely disgusting. I can't imagine, study or no study, seeing this happen and NOT doing something, at the very least calling the police.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
very well said. I agree completely. Every time I've had a run-in with a cop, it's been deserved on my part.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
If I sit calling him a pig, I'll probably get fined and thrown in the back of the cruiser.
i got popped for drunk driving once and i was a complete asshole to this cop. talking shit, yelling about calling lawyers and getting screwed. i give the guy massive credit for not busting my head. he kept his cool and treated me far more decently than he had to.
To be fair to the poster he was commenting on somebody elses post regarding people avoiding snitch behavior
People accepted us as a group, but not me alone, and I even accepted myself, if I was with the rest of the group, who was doing what I was doing.
I did see that movie with Jodi Foster. It was quite dramatic.
Another was when i caught the guy across the street breaking into the 91 yr old lady next to me home. I called cops. Again he said I would become known as the 'cop caller" on the street. I asked him just when I have ever called the cops. We argued but I still did what i could sleep with. It did cause me problems on my street cuz this guy actually helps this lady out, ie, shovels her walk, cuts her grass, rakes leaves, but he does that at a high rate of cash. Anyway, regardless of how he helps her he also has broke into her home at least once and tried to the second time when I caught him. My other neighbors and his wife didn't believe me and I became quite a talk of the town. This just happened a few months back and there is still gossip. I don't give a shit. He did what he did. His wife and I talked and she thinks I am mistaken and how good it is he didn't go to jail cuz of my error. There was no error. I watched him walk out her home once when she wasn't home and then tried to get a second time, when i called the cops.
My kids also do whatever they feel they need to. My daughter and niece once saw a man steal a lady's purse from her arm and then the guy ran into the city of detroit. (We live on the border and its a world of difference on the other side of 8 mile rd.) The girsl didn't care of the danger and went with their car and trapped the guy in an alley with the car while calling and waiting for cops. It was such a dangerous place where they caught him. I was proud and worried.
Geez, I remember so many times the person with me has told me to mind my own business when I saw something that I thought someone needed help. I know the danger but I also know I look at myself in that mirror.
I know that I would want someone to help me if in trouble. Do unto others, etc. That alone would make this world so much better. I know the people who live around me know I will take action, therefore, they feel safer and also won't commit crimes to each other if they think I can see.
Yeah... that was me.
I wasn't commenting on racial issues, police brutality, inner city poverty, racial injustice or anything like that. I was just commenting on the perception by people... of different races, economic classes, religious backgrounds, urban or suburban lifestyles... that have this moronic impression that it is worse to report a criminal act, than the criminal act itself.
In this specific case, calling the cops wasn't the only option open to them... there were probably several options available. There were adults at the dance, I am guessing. Why couldn't just one of those assholes have gone back into the dance and told someone? I'm also guessing that there were more than one cell phones in the pockets or purses of one of the witnesses... not one of them had the common or moral decency to dial 9-1-1?
Even in this Pearl Jam Message forum... I remember a thread by some douchebag writing about witnessing an armed robbery of a store. When I asked if he'd called 9-1-1, he responded that he wasn't a snitch. When I said I'd drop a dime on their asses in a second... I was called a snitch by many other members. That type of mentality sickens me. The same way the asshole at the flight school in Florida did not report Mohammed Atta and his cohorts taking flying lessons... but, had no interest in take-offs or landings. The flight instructor in Michigan reported this suspecious behaviour... I guess he was a snitch, while the Florida instructor was a stand up guy? Is that the truth?
Yeah... tattling on your brother because I accidentally burned the rug while playing with matches is one thing... and reporting an hour long rape in progress is something else. It's not being a hypocrit... it's being a person who cares about the well being of another human in distress. Leastwise, that's how i see it.
Hail, Hail!!!
I was driving down the street in my suburban neighborhood, when I saw three teenaged kids outside the schoolyard. There were bicycles and Razor scooters on the ground and a bigger kid was wailing on a smaller kid, curled up in a ball on the sidewalk (the third kid was standing there watching).
So, I pull over, get out and yell at the kids, "Hey!!! Hey, what the Hell is wrong with you?". The fight stops and the kid giving the beat down said the smaller kid was his brother. So, i asked the smaller kid if this was true... he said, yeah the older kid was his big brother.
So... I looked at them and said, "Okay... carry on"... got back in my car and drove off. Brothers of that age fight all the time... I know, I'm a brother that has been on both sides of a fight like that.
Point is... I thought is was something serious.... and I'm glad I stopped. Just in case it was something serious.
Hail, Hail!!!
I hate the idea of "no snitching". In a post I just posted I wrote about calling the cops on the guy across the street. The "being a snitch" thing is what some of my neighbors are thinking and talking about behind my back, however, he was robbing a 91 yr. old lady, and it appears he has been doing this over a long period of time. She trusted him totally. He took advantage of that. I talked to him before I called and we had a huge argument. I think he did one of the worse things I can imagine, (and I have 2 freinds in jail for murder). She so trusted him. He knew her hours, where she was at all times, and when she'd be home. She thought of him as a grandson. If he'd of admitted it all to me right away, no cops would have been involved. He chose to have it the way I did it. I was not a snitch. He didn't go to jail, but I am quite sure he won't be breaking into her home anymore. I don't see how the cops were helped at all. Actually, they'd rather not do the paper work, etc.
I was helping the old lady and everyone in the neighborhood. I do not want to live in a crime ime infested area.
Yes, I will do my part to keep my area as safe as possible. If everyone would do so and not be a chickenshit, we could have a nice place to live where we feel secure.
Oh, and I am reminded., the guy I called the cops on about the old lady saw 4 guys out one night peering into people's cars for things to steal. He called the cops and they were all caught!
Wouldn't it be nice if that kind of "group think" got contagious around here? You know, peer pressure works both ways. It just doesn't have to be bad things that peers pressure others about, but peers can pressure for good things.
We hear the phrase "peer pressure" a lot when teens get in trouble, but why not use it positive. Lets use pressure to get people to do the right thing. The guy across the street was very proud of himself about calling the cops and the thiefs getting caught. (It was in the newspaper). So, lots of us are prasing him. Aha, good peer pressure!
It was a great experiment for me. I got to see first hand that we all chose our fields out of something that was already within us.
So, I know that cops are thinking punishment from the start. I know its not all of them, but that class showed me its the majority. So, it should be no surprise when we hear of cops over doing it when capturing criminals.
Also, if I had a job that consisted day after day of dealing with people using all the defense mechanisms they have and knowing the desperation most have, I would rather let a judge figure things out and me go home with some kind of sanity and safe. I cannot imagine putting up with all that crap day after day. They don't make enough money to have to try and outwit people all the time.
So, as much as I do not like cops, I do understand why we see the horrendous things they often do.
Its the judges who have to figure it all out. We usually leave them out of it all when discussing these things, yet it is them who let some people go and lock up others. And even they have to put up with all the politics that go on daily in courts.
Its amazing that the justice system works at all. For us, if you happen to get arrested, its a big deal and we want the system to work, yet its doubtful it will ever work and we will get true justice. In the court room, the arena of people who work within them do it all day, every day, its doubtful true justice will ever occur at all.
I'm not disagreeing with you just pointing out why he was commenting on snitching. If I was there I wouldn't think twice about calling the cops and I'd probably intervene with a brick to the head of the first guy I come across.
when faced with the chance of harm coming to you in the same way flee vs fight really kicks in.
I was in a similar situation in college (not rape and not even comparing this to rape- rape is 1000 times worse)
a group of 6 friends including myself were walking to the gym in college to go play wally ball (man it is fun). Some guys comes up to one of our friends and jacks him in the face, and hits him one or two more times and kicks him on the ground. None of us do a thing at first, then one of us goes to get in between saying to the guy hey man c'mon stop, he turns and jacks number friend two in the face. By then the rest of us should all have jumped his ass and beat the crap out of him, but we didn't. We were all scared shitless this guy would beat our ass too if we interfered.
One the dude was huge doing the ass kicking, two he was seriously jacked up on something, he walked right through all 5 of us to get to him. No cell phones to call cops or nothing at that point in history so just us and him.
I remember it to this day we all looked at each after wards and said we were were total pussies and let the other two down (we were and did)
But faced with the same situation what would you do?
I think the same sense of preserve thyself was prevalent in each case.
Do those guys have a gun or knife, will they use it on me too? Must surely have been running through their heads (though I have not and won't watch the video). If I do something will they then come to do the same to my family? Will they wait for revenge later? Should I maybe die for a stranger? All questions I am sure they pndered.
I know at the very least I would have called the cops beyond that I can't say what I would do.
I think it is horrid, disgusting what happened, but I don't know what I would have done in this situation at that moment. I'd like to believe I'd go help her, but when push came to shove would I have done it?
In any defensive situation I would definitely go all in. If my friend was the offender I'd let him take a beat down to learn.
Besides how do you know they wouldn't set on you after they're done with your friend? Its best you fight while you have numbers. And even the biggest guy can go down with one strike. There are many pressure points in the human body that muscle can never protect. But I guess the question remains are you morally capable of inflicting such a strike on another person?
It also depends on how much experience you've had with these types of situations. If you've been in a fight before its exponentially easier to get into another one because you've been tested and know what your capable of.
Plus getting beat down is easier if its happened before
I feel the same way, incidentially. I do not understand the "stand around and do nothing" behavior from a personal perspective, even if there are many social psychological reasons that people fail to intervene (e.g., diffusion of responsbility, fear of social judgment, etc.). How does a person film such a thing using a phone but not dial the damn numbers?! Pretty profane stuff. I'd have an easier time living with myself if I did intervene (and perhaps risk a beating) than if I did squat.