I dont think the "dont be a snitch" mentality had a damn thing to do with this. Its a non issue. The no snitching thing came about from the inner city, this factual idea that police target black youth, and that as prisons are overwhelmingly and disproportionatley black and latino males, it makes sense, that people would have this guard up in those cases. If you know police especially those who patrol the inner city are corrupt, racist, and engage in the kind of murderous activity that notorious organizations like NY and LA's finest who will rape, or kill any blacks on site for merely being black. So yeah I can understand and identify with the no snitching idea. Why cooperate in an investigation with police if the police from the start are racist cowards?
This rape at the school had nothing to do with that
middle/ high school kids are totally different from the no snitching idea. The no snitching idea is a compelling idea because it revolves around racist and corrupt and wanton police who murder on sight. A school is a neutral setting so to speak. And presumably the school is made up of multiple races and ethnic groups.
Those kids who didnt do anything didnt do anything, no for fear of being blamed a snitched, but for some other reason not yet suggested
I dont think the "dont be a snitch" mentality had a damn thing to do with this. Its a non issue. The no snitching thing came about from the inner city, this factual idea that police target black youth, and that as prisons are overwhelmingly and disproportionatley black and latino males, it makes sense, that people would have this guard up in those cases. If you know police especially those who patrol the inner city are corrupt, racist, and engage in the kind of murderous activity that notorious organizations like NY and LA's finest who will rape, or kill any blacks on site for merely being black. So yeah I can understand and identify with the no snitching idea. Why cooperate in an investigation with police if the police from the start are racist cowards?
This rape at the school had nothing to do with that
You really think the No Snitch thing had nothing to do with? A year out of highschool, I can tell you, that mentality still exists, and I live in the fucking burbs.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
I didn't read the article, yet. But the mentality of people to not do anything when someone is in need of help is pretty common. I don't know if there's a psych word for it, but let's face it, it's much harder for people to care to act to help than to pretend they don't see anything. It's about responsibility and taking action. We're in the era of "I'm not responsible" for anything mentality. Only looking out for ourselves, which tends to make me ill. Which is probably why I haven't read the article.
I dont think the "dont be a snitch" mentality had a damn thing to do with this. Its a non issue. The no snitching thing came about from the inner city, this factual idea that police target black youth, and that as prisons are overwhelmingly and disproportionatley black and latino males, it makes sense, that people would have this guard up in those cases. If you know police especially those who patrol the inner city are corrupt, racist, and engage in the kind of murderous activity that notorious organizations like NY and LA's finest who will rape, or kill any blacks on site for merely being black. So yeah I can understand and identify with the no snitching idea. Why cooperate in an investigation with police if the police from the start are racist cowards?
This rape at the school had nothing to do with that
You really think the No Snitch thing had nothing to do with? A year out of highschool, I can tell you, that mentality still exists, and I live in the fucking burbs.
I am reasonable certain. I personally dont trust the police. And I personally would feel guilty calling the police if someone broke into my house. I would do it, but I would feel a tinge of guilt.
But I would have no trouble calling it if I saw someone else in need. I would do it immediately.
I think people generally trust the police. I dont think others have the same moral quandry I do.
Maybe the no snitching idea has widened and expanded as you seem to suggest. My point was, the no snitching movement, has very specific origins. for specific reasons.
As I said, I have a view of the police based on experiences I have seen first hand, or have seen on video, have read about etc...but, no question in my mind that if someone was being raped and I happened to come across that, I would immediately help that person, or call the police.
I just dont think middle/highschoolers think in that context. If I call the police i will be a snitch.
Its an easy scapegoat. And as people pointed out, this subject has been part of Psychology 101 for eons and eons. Kitty Genovese certainly didnt live in a time of no snitching, and that didnt stop people from not doing anything to help and save her. Or what about all those Germans during WWII who did nothing as people were burned alive, who kept silent for fear the Nazi's would turn on them. Or what about Matthew Shepard. You know one of those kids had to have had a conscience. And when Matthew was dying, he could have stopped his friends and said, "this isnt right, lets call the cops and save matthew". Or Brandon Teena. Those kids could have called the cops at any point. How about in My Lai or Haditha or Abu Gharaib? Why didnt anyone stop and say "this isnt okay".
once you come to the conclusion this has been going on for decades, maybe even centuries, this idea that people do nothing when others are being hurt or killed, you can rule out the "no snitching" explanation.
also I agree with you about blaming the parents. really, so many things are just out of their control, no matter how well they've raised their child.
the ones that should get the blame, flame and punishments for this are the guys that actually did it.
my thoughts go out to that girl and her family.
I've always maintained that if we started actually punishing parents with jail times for the crimes their children commit that, suddenly, a lot more things that would be in their control that they claim aren't now.
im guessing youre not a parent.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I dont think the "dont be a snitch" mentality had a damn thing to do with this. Its a non issue. The no snitching thing came about from the inner city, this factual idea that police target black youth, and that as prisons are overwhelmingly and disproportionatley black and latino males, it makes sense, that people would have this guard up in those cases. If you know police especially those who patrol the inner city are corrupt, racist, and engage in the kind of murderous activity that notorious organizations like NY and LA's finest who will rape, or kill any blacks on site for merely being black. So yeah I can understand and identify with the no snitching idea. Why cooperate in an investigation with police if the police from the start are racist cowards?
This rape at the school had nothing to do with that
...
WHAT????
You would stand by and NOT do a thing if you witnessed this crime???
I think you would. I think you would call the police to report it. To you, you are doing the right thing... to the criminals (and their peers and families and friends)... you are a SNITCH.
...
I don't know where this black inner city prison thing comes into play here... the thing is... witnesses that did NOT report it to the police.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I dont think the "dont be a snitch" mentality had a damn thing to do with this. Its a non issue. The no snitching thing came about from the inner city, this factual idea that police target black youth, and that as prisons are overwhelmingly and disproportionatley black and latino males, it makes sense, that people would have this guard up in those cases. If you know police especially those who patrol the inner city are corrupt, racist, and engage in the kind of murderous activity that notorious organizations like NY and LA's finest who will rape, or kill any blacks on site for merely being black. So yeah I can understand and identify with the no snitching idea. Why cooperate in an investigation with police if the police from the start are racist cowards?
middle/ high school kids are totally different from the no snitching idea. The no snitching idea is a compelling idea because it revolves around racist and corrupt and wanton police who murder on sight. A school is a neutral setting so to speak. And presumably the school is made up of multiple races and ethnic groups.
Those kids who didnt do anything didnt do anything, no for fear of being blamed a snitched, but for some other reason not yet suggested
I agree. Dialing 911 is no heroic act... but, it should be the LEAST you should do if you ever witness a crime.
depends on the crime.
...
You're right... it does.
Dudes smoking pot in the park... no call.
Dudes raping a chick in the park... call.
Jaywalking, California stop, speeding... no call.
Hit and run, Drive by shooting, 100 MPH in a School Zone... call.
...
Let your moral compass be your guide.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I agree. Dialing 911 is no heroic act... but, it should be the LEAST you should do if you ever witness a crime.
depends on the crime.
...
You're right... it does.
Dudes smoking pot in the park... no call.
Dudes raping a chick in the park... call.
Jaywalking, California stop, speeding... no call.
Hit and run, Drive by shooting, 100 MPH in a School Zone... call.
...
Let your moral compass be your guide.
...
Yeah. It all depends on the person, i guess.
Maybe those witnesses think rape is cool... or that doing something to stop it was uncool. It all depends on their moral compass.
According to my compass... it is criminal... and it is wrong and someone SHOULD have done something. The simplest of things would be dialing 9-1-1.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I dont think the "dont be a snitch" mentality had a damn thing to do with this. Its a non issue. The no snitching thing came about from the inner city, this factual idea that police target black youth, and that as prisons are overwhelmingly and disproportionatley black and latino males, it makes sense, that people would have this guard up in those cases. If you know police especially those who patrol the inner city are corrupt, racist, and engage in the kind of murderous activity that notorious organizations like NY and LA's finest who will rape, or kill any blacks on site for merely being black. So yeah I can understand and identify with the no snitching idea. Why cooperate in an investigation with police if the police from the start are racist cowards?
This rape at the school had nothing to do with that
...
WHAT????
You would stand by and NOT do a thing if you witnessed this crime???
I think you would. I think you would call the police to report it. To you, you are doing the right thing... to the criminals (and their peers and families and friends)... you are a SNITCH.
...
I don't know where this black inner city prison thing comes into play here... the thing is... witnesses that did NOT report it to the police.
Hey buddy, can you read?
heres a direct quote from a previous post: "I would have no trouble calling it if I saw someone else in need. I would do it immediately."
middle/ high school kids are totally different from the no snitching idea. The no snitching idea is a compelling idea because it revolves around racist and corrupt and wanton police who murder on sight. A school is a neutral setting so to speak. And presumably the school is made up of multiple races and ethnic groups.
Those kids who didnt do anything didnt do anything, no for fear of being blamed a snitched, but for some other reason not yet suggested
what reason is that? suggest it...
I dont know, but I sure as hell know it aint a bunch of kids worried about being labeled snitches.
My posts were trying to point out, evidently it failed, that people do this all the time. They witness a crime, and say or do nothing. Or they participate themselves, in a crime, even though they know it isnt good or wise or smart, and do nothing, say nothing, and dont tell anyone anything.
If that idea is accepted, then the snitching explanation for this crime is thrown out.
I dont think the "dont be a snitch" mentality had a damn thing to do with this. Its a non issue. The no snitching thing came about from the inner city, this factual idea that police target black youth, and that as prisons are overwhelmingly and disproportionatley black and latino males, it makes sense, that people would have this guard up in those cases. If you know police especially those who patrol the inner city are corrupt, racist, and engage in the kind of murderous activity that notorious organizations like NY and LA's finest who will rape, or kill any blacks on site for merely being black. So yeah I can understand and identify with the no snitching idea. Why cooperate in an investigation with police if the police from the start are racist cowards?
because a 15 year old girl was being gang raped.
I guess you have trouble reading too, friend. But your my old nemesis so what do I expect. I put out 2 different scenarios. Read my post. Or take a literacy class. I said, if someone robbed my house, I would call the police but would feel guilty. I also said, if I happened on someone being murdered, assaulted, or whatever I would help them, or call the police. So I dont really understand your point.
The no snitching explanation is bogus. Its a cop out.
I dont think the "dont be a snitch" mentality had a damn thing to do with this. Its a non issue. The no snitching thing came about from the inner city, this factual idea that police target black youth, and that as prisons are overwhelmingly and disproportionatley black and latino males, it makes sense, that people would have this guard up in those cases. If you know police especially those who patrol the inner city are corrupt, racist, and engage in the kind of murderous activity that notorious organizations like NY and LA's finest who will rape, or kill any blacks on site for merely being black. So yeah I can understand and identify with the no snitching idea. Why cooperate in an investigation with police if the police from the start are racist cowards?
This rape at the school had nothing to do with that
...
WHAT????
You would stand by and NOT do a thing if you witnessed this crime???
I think you would. I think you would call the police to report it. To you, you are doing the right thing... to the criminals (and their peers and families and friends)... you are a SNITCH.
...
I don't know where this black inner city prison thing comes into play here... the thing is... witnesses that did NOT report it to the police.
Hey buddy, can you read?
heres a direct quote from a previous post: "I would have no trouble calling it if I saw someone else in need. I would do it immediately."
...
In my defense... I was responding to the message... left to go to a meeting and came back to finish it... so, I completely missed your little note of your nobility. But, if you can point out your direct qoute, "I would have no trouble calling it if I saw someone else in need. I would do it immediately." from the paraghaph above... I'll concede your point.
But, I really struck a raw nerve here, didn't I?
I have no fucking idea... where the fuck you are coming from... but, you obviously got some cop problems. My guess is that you got a beat down for something you did or didn't do. I've been there... rousted and cuffed. But, I admit, i said shit to them i probably shouldn't have. I don't hold it against an entire occupation because a couple of dickheads in a black and white bounced my noggin off the hood of their cruiser.
I wasn't talking about some grandeous movement or idea... I'm talking about this moronic attitude within people who feel that anyone who (I'll steer clear of your noble movement, 'Snitch') 'Tattletales' on a criminal... is WORSE than the crime being commited. A 'Rat', a 'Stool Pidgeon', a 'Snitch'... it's all the same... someone who reports on others to the authorities.
And yeah, it has it place... if you call the cops because your neighbor is smoking pot... yeah, okay... a snitch. If you call the cops because you neighbor is cutting the limbs off of a dead prostiture with a chainsaw... not so much.
...
As a side point... you seriously need to smoke some pot, dude. Don't worry... I'll only call the cops on you when I hear that chainsaw fire up.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I have given money to, and protested for the release of Mumia. I have attended a birthday celebration for, and given money to, and protested for the release of leonard peltier. I have given money to, and have spoken out for the release of the WM3.
I also am a sociology major. and as a sociology major I know all about the injustice system, or if a black male was speaking the "just us" system. as I said over 2 million people in prison. over 1 million of those are black males, in prison for nonviolent drug offences.
I am aware of the cases of Amadou Diallo where police shot an unarmed man 41 times, the bullet holes in the soles of his feet indicate they continued to shoot even as he fell, all because they thought his wallet was a gun. I have watched for myself the tape of Rodney King being beaten, I have also seen footage of pigs in Cincinnati beating to death a 300 pound black man, even as he lay on the ground, screaming that they were hurting him.
I know in my hometown that Jeff Luers, set fire to 3 SUV's, simple case of arson, and was sentenced to 22 years.
One of my college professors sons friends (hows that for a namedrop), had psychological problems, and police were called to his street, he was out in the middle of the street. Multiple pigs, with guns, stun guns, mase, batons, handcuffs etc..., and the kid had a knife. The police say the kid lunged at the police. They shot him to death. A kid. Police had so many other options. Why not just mase the guy, he obviously couldnt use a knife if he couldnt see! Or why not just fire a warning shot, or shoot him in the toe or something minor? Why shoot to kill?
As a history buff, I also know that one should pick any social movement, women's liberation and suffrage, civil rights, environmentalism, antiwar, immigration rights, indigeonous rights, labor rights, antiwto and anti nafta/cafta, and in every single movement and social movement, the police view the protestors as threats and in cases like Seattle in 99, or Chicago in 68, or LA in 2000, they blatantly beat the hell out of people, or mase people just for the hell of it.
Police are brutal by nature. I have no respect for someone like that. Someone who carries that much armor (mase, guns, tasers, battons) and feels the need to murder someone because their WALLET looks like a gun? I mean come on!
...
WHAT????
You would stand by and NOT do a thing if you witnessed this crime???
I think you would. I think you would call the police to report it. To you, you are doing the right thing... to the criminals (and their peers and families and friends)... you are a SNITCH.
...
I don't know where this black inner city prison thing comes into play here... the thing is... witnesses that did NOT report it to the police.[/quote]
Hey buddy, can you read?
heres a direct quote from a previous post: "I would have no trouble calling it if I saw someone else in need. I would do it immediately."[/quote]
...
In my defense... I was responding to the message... left to go to a meeting and came back to finish it... so, I completely missed your little note of your nobility. But, if you can point out your direct qoute, "I would have no trouble calling it if I saw someone else in need. I would do it immediately." from the paraghaph above... I'll concede your point.
But, I really struck a raw nerve here, didn't I?
I have no fucking idea... where the fuck you are coming from... but, you obviously got some cop problems. My guess is that you got a beat down for something you did or didn't do. I've been there... rousted and cuffed. But, I admit, i said shit to them i probably shouldn't have. I don't hold it against an entire occupation because a couple of dickheads in a black and white bounced my noggin off the hood of their cruiser.
I wasn't talking about some grandeous movement or idea... I'm talking about this moronic attitude within people who feel that anyone who (I'll steer clear of your noble movement, 'Snitch') 'Tattletales' on a criminal... is WORSE than the crime being commited. A 'Rat', a 'Stool Pidgeon', a 'Snitch'... it's all the same... someone who reports on others to the authorities.
And yeah, it has it place... if you call the cops because your neighbor is smoking pot... yeah, okay... a snitch. If you call the cops because you neighbor is cutting the limbs off of a dead prostiture with a chainsaw... not so much.
...
As a side point... you seriously need to smoke some pot, dude. Don't worry... I'll only call the cops on you when I hear that chainsaw fire up.[/quote]
All you have to do is watch The Wire to realize these guys are all corrupt and as dirty as the so called criminals they try and rid the streets of.
My professor was an antiwar activist during Vietnam. A famous protest subject of a movie, and book, the protest at the U of W Madison Wisconsin, protesting vietnam and the Dow Chemical company's involvement.
Anyways my professor, was beaten randomly, by some of Wisconsins finest, and they held him in a position where his hands were flat against the pavement and they proceeded to smash his hands with battons. As I said, this was the subject of a Pulitzer nominated book and documentary as well.
And I would still bet that 999/1000 police do their job and do it well to protect their citizens. Those incidents mentioned are horrific, however, there are good and bad at every job.
And you use an example of a fictional TV show to back up your ideas. Alrighty then.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
people will always find a way to justify their inaction and indifference. That does not make it right and does not take away the injustice of their action
I've had bad experiences with cops... but, i have also had good experiences.
Bad Cop... in a car with long haired surfers and Mexicans... we get pulled over in my piece of crap VW Van. We're told to sit on the curb while they tear apart my crappy van, looking for drugs. Longhairs must have drugs, right? Wrong. Longhairs are not all stupid enough to drive around in their cop magnet vans with their stash.
So, the white cop (the other was Hispanic) says some shit like, "Look at this one... I can't tell if it's a girl or a boy". So, the longhair... pissed off because his van's interior is on the sidewalk says, "Suck my dick and find out"... thinking he can't do anything to me... I'm a fucking minor. Wrong. Gets cuffs slapped on and bounced off the hood.
Nothing to charge us with... they push around a bit... and let us go, because they can see the scared shitless looks on our faces.
Lesson learned... don't say shit to guys with guns, nightsticks and badges that wil piss them off.
...
Good Cop... up Chaney Trail that leads to Mt. Wilson, overlooking the Los Angeles basin at night... where, during the daylight, you can see the ocean on one side... the high desert on the other. Smoking pot, drinkin beer, under the stars hanging with friends because thre's nothing to do but hang out with your friends, smoking pot and drinking beer under the stars. The light of the city... you can see the planes lined up to come into LAX. Car stereo in on... probably listening to 'Frampton Comes Alive', because that was all we all listened to that Summer. Loud enough to not hear the Sheriff's Cruiser sneak in behind us with his lights out. Spot lights on... Busted. Tell the cops that all we have is the pot in out pockets and the beer in the trunk. They hold us there for a while... please, don't tear apart my bug (the van died, but I salvaged the engine)... he tells us to dump our pot in the dirt. We do. Tells me to kick it around... I do... half-heartedly. He says, "No! Like this!!!" and kicks up the dirt like Lou Pinella arguing with the home plate umpire. I comply. Then, open these cans of beer (almost a case left) one by one and pour it into the dirt where the pot is... er... was. Kick it around. Checks out our reflexes... and tell us to get the Hell out of there and don't come back. Remember, this was back when an ounce of pot was a felony... not a misdemeanor ticket with a 100 dollar maximum fine. We had about 3 cans on us. We were pretty lucky to get out of there... even if it cost us 3 lids, a case of Oly and our papers and pipes. We were pissed for a while... but, looking back, he was just doing his job. I'm glad he let us off.
Lesson learned... not all cops are assholes.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
These stories of gang rape are becoming too frequent its sickening. Its like society is slowly reverting back to animal behaviour. Sometimes these stories make me question my anti-capital punishment stance. As for the people who witnessed this attack and did not report it they are definitely accomplices, because they could have limited the girls suffering from 2 freaking hours to much less.
And I would still bet that 999/1000 police do their job and do it well to protect their citizens. Those incidents mentioned are horrific, however, there are good and bad at every job.
And you use an example of a fictional TV show to back up your ideas. Alrighty then.
i had the same thought... well if it's on tv, it CAN'T be untrue! i mean, i love the wire, but come on...
But, I really struck a raw nerve here, didn't I?
I have no fucking idea... where the fuck you are coming from... but, you obviously got some cop problems. My guess is that you got a beat down for something you did or didn't do. I've been there... rousted and cuffed. But, I admit, i said shit to them i probably shouldn't have. I don't hold it against an entire occupation because a couple of dickheads in a black and white bounced my noggin off the hood of their cruiser.
I wasn't talking about some grandeous movement or idea... I'm talking about this moronic attitude within people who feel that anyone who (I'll steer clear of your noble movement, 'Snitch') 'Tattletales' on a criminal... is WORSE than the crime being commited. A 'Rat', a 'Stool Pidgeon', a 'Snitch'... it's all the same... someone who reports on others to the authorities.
And yeah, it has it place... if you call the cops because your neighbor is smoking pot... yeah, okay... a snitch. If you call the cops because you neighbor is cutting the limbs off of a dead prostiture with a chainsaw... not so much.
...
As a side point... you seriously need to smoke some pot, dude. Don't worry... I'll only call the cops on you when I hear that chainsaw fire up.
i seriously doubt he's ever had a run-in with any cops. he just considers himself the only white man who truly understands the plight of the black man, thanks to hip hop and the wire. what that has to do with this story i have no idea. this isn't about race. i don't even know how everyone jumped to the conclusion these were black males. if he wants to talk about the evils of cops and racial profiling... interesting that HE is the one that immediately assumes the perps were all black and were just fighting some war against the evil racist man by not reporting this rape.
there is actually a psych term, which now escapes me, for this very phenomenon. people do 'nothing' b/c they think someone else will do something. that, coupled with fears for themselves. it truly is amazing.
This was also a famous study, not strictly related to the OP, but interesting nonetheless:
The Milgram experiment was a series of social psychology experiments conducted by Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram, which measured the willingness of study participants to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts that conflicted with their personal conscience. Milgram first described his research in 1963 in an article published in the Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology,[1] and later discussed his findings in greater depth in his 1974 book, Obedience to Authority: An Experimental View.[2]
The experiments began in July 1961, three months after the start of the trial of Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann in Jerusalem. Milgram devised his psychological study to answer the question: "Was it that Eichmann and his accomplices in the Holocaust had mutual intent, in at least with regard to the goals of the Holocaust?" In other words, "Was there a mutual sense of morality among those involved?"
Milgram's testing revealed that it could have been that the millions of accomplices were merely following orders, despite violating their deepest moral beliefs.[3] Milgram summarized the experiment in his 1974 article, "The Perils of Obedience", writing:
The legal and philosophic aspects of obedience are of enormous importance, but they say very little about how most people behave in concrete situations. I set up a simple experiment at Yale University to test how much pain an ordinary citizen would inflict on another person simply because he was ordered to by an experimental scientist. Stark authority was pitted against the subjects' [participants'] strongest moral imperatives against hurting others, and, with the subjects' [participants'] ears ringing with the screams of the victims, authority won more often than not. The extreme willingness of adults to go to almost any lengths on the command of an authority constitutes the chief finding of the study and the fact most urgently demanding explanation.
Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality, relatively few people have the resources needed to resist authority.[4]
The original Simulated Shock Generator and Event Recorder, or shock box, is located in the Archives of the History of American Psychology.
Ah, the good ole days before there were ethical standards... when you could conduct really interesting experiments The Stanford Prison experiment by Zimbardo was also a fascinating look at group dynamics and our willingness to turn blind eyes to brutality.
And I would still bet that 999/1000 police do their job and do it well to protect their citizens. Those incidents mentioned are horrific, however, there are good and bad at every job.
And you use an example of a fictional TV show to back up your ideas. Alrighty then.
Yeah... And if you think of the hundreds of interactions with the public everyday that each and every cop has, the total number of interactions have to be mind-boggling... Compare that to the small number of bad (sometimes heinous) incidents, and the percentage has to be a fraction of a percentage point.
And yeah, as soon as someone brings up a TV show as evidence, it really makes an argument valid :roll:
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Comments
This rape at the school had nothing to do with that
Those kids who didnt do anything didnt do anything, no for fear of being blamed a snitched, but for some other reason not yet suggested
I am reasonable certain. I personally dont trust the police. And I personally would feel guilty calling the police if someone broke into my house. I would do it, but I would feel a tinge of guilt.
But I would have no trouble calling it if I saw someone else in need. I would do it immediately.
I think people generally trust the police. I dont think others have the same moral quandry I do.
Maybe the no snitching idea has widened and expanded as you seem to suggest. My point was, the no snitching movement, has very specific origins. for specific reasons.
As I said, I have a view of the police based on experiences I have seen first hand, or have seen on video, have read about etc...but, no question in my mind that if someone was being raped and I happened to come across that, I would immediately help that person, or call the police.
I just dont think middle/highschoolers think in that context. If I call the police i will be a snitch.
Its an easy scapegoat. And as people pointed out, this subject has been part of Psychology 101 for eons and eons. Kitty Genovese certainly didnt live in a time of no snitching, and that didnt stop people from not doing anything to help and save her. Or what about all those Germans during WWII who did nothing as people were burned alive, who kept silent for fear the Nazi's would turn on them. Or what about Matthew Shepard. You know one of those kids had to have had a conscience. And when Matthew was dying, he could have stopped his friends and said, "this isnt right, lets call the cops and save matthew". Or Brandon Teena. Those kids could have called the cops at any point. How about in My Lai or Haditha or Abu Gharaib? Why didnt anyone stop and say "this isnt okay".
Its more than a no snitching fear.
This type of thing has bee
And anyone with half would understand that
im guessing youre not a parent.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
WHAT????
You would stand by and NOT do a thing if you witnessed this crime???
I think you would. I think you would call the police to report it. To you, you are doing the right thing... to the criminals (and their peers and families and friends)... you are a SNITCH.
...
I don't know where this black inner city prison thing comes into play here... the thing is... witnesses that did NOT report it to the police.
Hail, Hail!!!
because a 15 year old girl was being gang raped.
what reason is that? suggest it...
You're right... it does.
Dudes smoking pot in the park... no call.
Dudes raping a chick in the park... call.
Jaywalking, California stop, speeding... no call.
Hit and run, Drive by shooting, 100 MPH in a School Zone... call.
...
Let your moral compass be your guide.
Hail, Hail!!!
just wanted to clarify
Yeah. It all depends on the person, i guess.
Maybe those witnesses think rape is cool... or that doing something to stop it was uncool. It all depends on their moral compass.
According to my compass... it is criminal... and it is wrong and someone SHOULD have done something. The simplest of things would be dialing 9-1-1.
Hail, Hail!!!
Hey buddy, can you read?
heres a direct quote from a previous post: "I would have no trouble calling it if I saw someone else in need. I would do it immediately."
I dont know, but I sure as hell know it aint a bunch of kids worried about being labeled snitches.
My posts were trying to point out, evidently it failed, that people do this all the time. They witness a crime, and say or do nothing. Or they participate themselves, in a crime, even though they know it isnt good or wise or smart, and do nothing, say nothing, and dont tell anyone anything.
If that idea is accepted, then the snitching explanation for this crime is thrown out.
I guess you have trouble reading too, friend. But your my old nemesis so what do I expect. I put out 2 different scenarios. Read my post. Or take a literacy class. I said, if someone robbed my house, I would call the police but would feel guilty. I also said, if I happened on someone being murdered, assaulted, or whatever I would help them, or call the police. So I dont really understand your point.
The no snitching explanation is bogus. Its a cop out.
In my defense... I was responding to the message... left to go to a meeting and came back to finish it... so, I completely missed your little note of your nobility. But, if you can point out your direct qoute, "I would have no trouble calling it if I saw someone else in need. I would do it immediately." from the paraghaph above... I'll concede your point.
But, I really struck a raw nerve here, didn't I?
I have no fucking idea... where the fuck you are coming from... but, you obviously got some cop problems. My guess is that you got a beat down for something you did or didn't do. I've been there... rousted and cuffed. But, I admit, i said shit to them i probably shouldn't have. I don't hold it against an entire occupation because a couple of dickheads in a black and white bounced my noggin off the hood of their cruiser.
I wasn't talking about some grandeous movement or idea... I'm talking about this moronic attitude within people who feel that anyone who (I'll steer clear of your noble movement, 'Snitch') 'Tattletales' on a criminal... is WORSE than the crime being commited. A 'Rat', a 'Stool Pidgeon', a 'Snitch'... it's all the same... someone who reports on others to the authorities.
And yeah, it has it place... if you call the cops because your neighbor is smoking pot... yeah, okay... a snitch. If you call the cops because you neighbor is cutting the limbs off of a dead prostiture with a chainsaw... not so much.
...
As a side point... you seriously need to smoke some pot, dude. Don't worry... I'll only call the cops on you when I hear that chainsaw fire up.
Hail, Hail!!!
Boondock Saints.
I also am a sociology major. and as a sociology major I know all about the injustice system, or if a black male was speaking the "just us" system. as I said over 2 million people in prison. over 1 million of those are black males, in prison for nonviolent drug offences.
I am aware of the cases of Amadou Diallo where police shot an unarmed man 41 times, the bullet holes in the soles of his feet indicate they continued to shoot even as he fell, all because they thought his wallet was a gun. I have watched for myself the tape of Rodney King being beaten, I have also seen footage of pigs in Cincinnati beating to death a 300 pound black man, even as he lay on the ground, screaming that they were hurting him.
I know in my hometown that Jeff Luers, set fire to 3 SUV's, simple case of arson, and was sentenced to 22 years.
One of my college professors sons friends (hows that for a namedrop), had psychological problems, and police were called to his street, he was out in the middle of the street. Multiple pigs, with guns, stun guns, mase, batons, handcuffs etc..., and the kid had a knife. The police say the kid lunged at the police. They shot him to death. A kid. Police had so many other options. Why not just mase the guy, he obviously couldnt use a knife if he couldnt see! Or why not just fire a warning shot, or shoot him in the toe or something minor? Why shoot to kill?
As a history buff, I also know that one should pick any social movement, women's liberation and suffrage, civil rights, environmentalism, antiwar, immigration rights, indigeonous rights, labor rights, antiwto and anti nafta/cafta, and in every single movement and social movement, the police view the protestors as threats and in cases like Seattle in 99, or Chicago in 68, or LA in 2000, they blatantly beat the hell out of people, or mase people just for the hell of it.
Police are brutal by nature. I have no respect for someone like that. Someone who carries that much armor (mase, guns, tasers, battons) and feels the need to murder someone because their WALLET looks like a gun? I mean come on!
So yeah I have problems with the police.
WHAT????
You would stand by and NOT do a thing if you witnessed this crime???
I think you would. I think you would call the police to report it. To you, you are doing the right thing... to the criminals (and their peers and families and friends)... you are a SNITCH.
...
I don't know where this black inner city prison thing comes into play here... the thing is... witnesses that did NOT report it to the police.[/quote]
Hey buddy, can you read?
heres a direct quote from a previous post: "I would have no trouble calling it if I saw someone else in need. I would do it immediately."[/quote]
...
In my defense... I was responding to the message... left to go to a meeting and came back to finish it... so, I completely missed your little note of your nobility. But, if you can point out your direct qoute, "I would have no trouble calling it if I saw someone else in need. I would do it immediately." from the paraghaph above... I'll concede your point.
But, I really struck a raw nerve here, didn't I?
I have no fucking idea... where the fuck you are coming from... but, you obviously got some cop problems. My guess is that you got a beat down for something you did or didn't do. I've been there... rousted and cuffed. But, I admit, i said shit to them i probably shouldn't have. I don't hold it against an entire occupation because a couple of dickheads in a black and white bounced my noggin off the hood of their cruiser.
I wasn't talking about some grandeous movement or idea... I'm talking about this moronic attitude within people who feel that anyone who (I'll steer clear of your noble movement, 'Snitch') 'Tattletales' on a criminal... is WORSE than the crime being commited. A 'Rat', a 'Stool Pidgeon', a 'Snitch'... it's all the same... someone who reports on others to the authorities.
And yeah, it has it place... if you call the cops because your neighbor is smoking pot... yeah, okay... a snitch. If you call the cops because you neighbor is cutting the limbs off of a dead prostiture with a chainsaw... not so much.
...
As a side point... you seriously need to smoke some pot, dude. Don't worry... I'll only call the cops on you when I hear that chainsaw fire up.[/quote]
All you have to do is watch The Wire to realize these guys are all corrupt and as dirty as the so called criminals they try and rid the streets of.
My professor was an antiwar activist during Vietnam. A famous protest subject of a movie, and book, the protest at the U of W Madison Wisconsin, protesting vietnam and the Dow Chemical company's involvement.
Anyways my professor, was beaten randomly, by some of Wisconsins finest, and they held him in a position where his hands were flat against the pavement and they proceeded to smash his hands with battons. As I said, this was the subject of a Pulitzer nominated book and documentary as well.
And you use an example of a fictional TV show to back up your ideas. Alrighty then.
Bad Cop... in a car with long haired surfers and Mexicans... we get pulled over in my piece of crap VW Van. We're told to sit on the curb while they tear apart my crappy van, looking for drugs. Longhairs must have drugs, right? Wrong. Longhairs are not all stupid enough to drive around in their cop magnet vans with their stash.
So, the white cop (the other was Hispanic) says some shit like, "Look at this one... I can't tell if it's a girl or a boy". So, the longhair... pissed off because his van's interior is on the sidewalk says, "Suck my dick and find out"... thinking he can't do anything to me... I'm a fucking minor. Wrong. Gets cuffs slapped on and bounced off the hood.
Nothing to charge us with... they push around a bit... and let us go, because they can see the scared shitless looks on our faces.
Lesson learned... don't say shit to guys with guns, nightsticks and badges that wil piss them off.
...
Good Cop... up Chaney Trail that leads to Mt. Wilson, overlooking the Los Angeles basin at night... where, during the daylight, you can see the ocean on one side... the high desert on the other. Smoking pot, drinkin beer, under the stars hanging with friends because thre's nothing to do but hang out with your friends, smoking pot and drinking beer under the stars. The light of the city... you can see the planes lined up to come into LAX. Car stereo in on... probably listening to 'Frampton Comes Alive', because that was all we all listened to that Summer. Loud enough to not hear the Sheriff's Cruiser sneak in behind us with his lights out. Spot lights on... Busted. Tell the cops that all we have is the pot in out pockets and the beer in the trunk. They hold us there for a while... please, don't tear apart my bug (the van died, but I salvaged the engine)... he tells us to dump our pot in the dirt. We do. Tells me to kick it around... I do... half-heartedly. He says, "No! Like this!!!" and kicks up the dirt like Lou Pinella arguing with the home plate umpire. I comply. Then, open these cans of beer (almost a case left) one by one and pour it into the dirt where the pot is... er... was. Kick it around. Checks out our reflexes... and tell us to get the Hell out of there and don't come back. Remember, this was back when an ounce of pot was a felony... not a misdemeanor ticket with a 100 dollar maximum fine. We had about 3 cans on us. We were pretty lucky to get out of there... even if it cost us 3 lids, a case of Oly and our papers and pipes. We were pissed for a while... but, looking back, he was just doing his job. I'm glad he let us off.
Lesson learned... not all cops are assholes.
Hail, Hail!!!
i had the same thought... well if it's on tv, it CAN'T be untrue! i mean, i love the wire, but come on...
i seriously doubt he's ever had a run-in with any cops. he just considers himself the only white man who truly understands the plight of the black man, thanks to hip hop and the wire. what that has to do with this story i have no idea. this isn't about race. i don't even know how everyone jumped to the conclusion these were black males. if he wants to talk about the evils of cops and racial profiling... interesting that HE is the one that immediately assumes the perps were all black and were just fighting some war against the evil racist man by not reporting this rape.
This was also a famous study, not strictly related to the OP, but interesting nonetheless:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
Milgram experiment
The Milgram experiment was a series of social psychology experiments conducted by Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram, which measured the willingness of study participants to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts that conflicted with their personal conscience. Milgram first described his research in 1963 in an article published in the Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology,[1] and later discussed his findings in greater depth in his 1974 book, Obedience to Authority: An Experimental View.[2]
The experiments began in July 1961, three months after the start of the trial of Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann in Jerusalem. Milgram devised his psychological study to answer the question: "Was it that Eichmann and his accomplices in the Holocaust had mutual intent, in at least with regard to the goals of the Holocaust?" In other words, "Was there a mutual sense of morality among those involved?"
Milgram's testing revealed that it could have been that the millions of accomplices were merely following orders, despite violating their deepest moral beliefs.[3] Milgram summarized the experiment in his 1974 article, "The Perils of Obedience", writing:
The legal and philosophic aspects of obedience are of enormous importance, but they say very little about how most people behave in concrete situations. I set up a simple experiment at Yale University to test how much pain an ordinary citizen would inflict on another person simply because he was ordered to by an experimental scientist. Stark authority was pitted against the subjects' [participants'] strongest moral imperatives against hurting others, and, with the subjects' [participants'] ears ringing with the screams of the victims, authority won more often than not. The extreme willingness of adults to go to almost any lengths on the command of an authority constitutes the chief finding of the study and the fact most urgently demanding explanation.
Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality, relatively few people have the resources needed to resist authority.[4]
The original Simulated Shock Generator and Event Recorder, or shock box, is located in the Archives of the History of American Psychology.
Ah, the good ole days before there were ethical standards... when you could conduct really interesting experiments
Yeah... And if you think of the hundreds of interactions with the public everyday that each and every cop has, the total number of interactions have to be mind-boggling... Compare that to the small number of bad (sometimes heinous) incidents, and the percentage has to be a fraction of a percentage point.
And yeah, as soon as someone brings up a TV show as evidence, it really makes an argument valid :roll:
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln