c-section vs. natural birth

pickupyourwill

does anyone believe that one is harder than the other?--and why? I had one the natural way but with an epidural--so technically still not 100% natural.

does anyone feel that those having only c-sections are missing out on something? of course, most the time it is beyond the mother's control anyway. the doctor calls most of the shots.

it just seems that so many women today are having c-sections. so hundreds of years ago, what would these women and doctors have done then? would these be some of the women that died in childbirth or had stillborns? I've never really read up on the subject. I think its a great marvel that modern medical science has made it possible for every woman to deliver without losing the mother or baby. I guess I just wish that natural birth was the majority, but it doesn't seem that way anymore. I have no statistics on it, though. anyone else agree or disagree?

decides2dream

pickupyourwill wrote:

does anyone believe that one is harder than the other?--and why? I had one the natural way but with an epidural--so technically still not 100% natural.

does anyone feel that those having only c-sections are missing out on something? of course, most the time it is beyond the mother's control anyway. the doctor calls most of the shots.

it just seems that so many women today are having c-sections. so hundreds of years ago, what would these women and doctors have done then? would these be some of the women that died in childbirth or had stillborns? I've never really read up on the subject. I think its a great marvel that modern medical science has made it possible for every woman to deliver without losing the mother or baby. I guess I just wish that natural birth was the majority, but it doesn't seem that way anymore. I have no statistics on it, though. anyone else agree or disagree?

modern medical science has NOT accomplished that, not even close. more than likely, that will never be possible. have the scientific/medical community made great strides in improving #s for materal and infant mortality? sure. but there still are many, many women who die during childbirth....and many children that are lost as well.

as to your Q: firstly, i have never given birth so i obviously cannot speak from personal experience, only observations and readings. i know a good # of women who have had both c-sections and vaginal deliveries, and overall....most preferred the vaginal. it may hurt more at the time, but it IS the way nature intended, and thus afterwards, better recovery. most with c-sections had a longer recovery period, and with a newborn to take care of, just added to it. that said, all were medically necessary, so you do what ya gotta do.

i have read that c-sections are very much on the rise, and many questions about the medical necessity of them. idk enough about it either way to have a truly formed opinion, but it is curious and i am always interested in more information. that said, i do believe that vaginal births are still the most numerous, and medically desired, form of childbirth.

Claireack

I can't provide any facts and figures but I can tell you what I think.

I had a natural delivery with my son, it was painful but I got through it. I also know a lot of people that have had c-sections. One of my friends had both her children by c-section, both were necessary because she is tiny and has a small pelvis, the first was done as an emergency, the second was planned due to the difficulties with the first birth. Unfortunately, the anaestetic didn't work for the second and despite repeatedly telling the surgeons nothing was done - an inquiry followed.

I guess in my opinion if you can possibly have a natural delivery go for it, but there are cases where a surgical intervention is needed. I do think that having a planned c-section for non-medical grounds isn't a good idea, recovery time etc but sometimes when all else fails it can prevent tragic outcomes.

blackredyellow

I'm a guy, so take it for what it's worth, but...

How did c-sections get such a negative connotation? i mean, I understand that there are few women who choose to have a c-section out of vanity, convenience or whatever, but the VAST majority of them are for medical reasons.

The idea that having a c-section means that you are "missing out on something" makes absolutely no sense to me at all... It seems to me like an elitist attitude that some women have to put themselves above other women.

I don't know if it's insecurity or competition on whatever, but there seems to be a natural tendency for mothers to find any reason to put down other mothers and to elevate themselves some way or another.

Jeanwah

Doctors want more women to choose c-sections due to liability reasons. With surgery, doctors have better control of what's happening vs. the unpredictability of natural birth. That's a fact, and it's why elective c-sections have become so accepted and popular among 1st time pregnant women afraid of the experience of childbirth (many will elect to be put under the knife rather than actually experience the pain of labor).

I had an last minute c-section after 2 hours of pushing. It was the worst experience of my life. How anyone can choose major abdominal surgery over something that happens naturally (not to mention healing is speedier) is beyond me. I had terrible side effects and a long and painful recovery. Sorry, guys, but I think you really need to be a woman to understand this subject fully.

Claireack

blackredyellow wrote:

I don't know if it's insecurity or competition on whatever, but there seems to be a natural tendency for mothers to find any reason to put down other mothers and to elevate themselves some way or another.

Not everyone's like that though, you can only control what happens at the birth to a certain degree. With me, right after I had him I did feel pretty proud of actually managing to give birth so I probably did harp on about it for a while, and in a way I did kind of feel like I was the only who had ever given birth (even though I was on a ward with other women who had too).

Breastfeeding is perhaps just as controversial, if not more. I only managed it for three days due to pain/scabs/baby puking blood, and I did feel like some people looked down on me for giving up. But again it's personal choice, you do what you can.

Incidentally, I have never met a woman who has delivered naturally that has described it a truely spiritual experience, although I have heard of these people. So anyone having a c-section doesn't have to worry about that one.

Heatherj43

I had 2 kids, both C-sections. The first one was in '74 and I was in bad pain and ill for the 2 weeks that followed, but the other was in '78 and I was fine in a few days. The first was an emergency one. The doctors have told me that in an emergency C-section they give a rough estimate about how much anesthetic they should give, but they can plan it better when you know beforehand you are having a c-section. I thought it was just the years that went by that made it so much better the second time.
My youngest is 31, so I am guessing c-sections are even easier these days. Looking back, and if it was my choice, I would have c-sections again.
It helps so the baby don't end up with a weird shaped head and it helps in protecting against a lot that can happen during regular childbirth. You don't get stretched out too!!
It is major surgery however, so its something to be concerned about. I think its safe. They do them so often. But that can be a problem. Like driving, with time we get careless, cuz it becomes so instinctual.
My scar is one that goes up and down. Now your scar will be left to right and below the bikini line.
I am okay with the scar. No one ever notices it unless I point it out and I had to have 2 other abdominal surgeries thru the years and they were able to use that scar to make the new incisions, instead of creating additional scars. I have had a total of 4 abdominal surgeries, but only one scar, that is very faded and just blends in.
My 2 cents. LOL!

soulsinging

Claireack wrote:

blackredyellow wrote:

I don't know if it's insecurity or competition on whatever, but there seems to be a natural tendency for mothers to find any reason to put down other mothers and to elevate themselves some way or another.

Not everyone's like that though, you can only control what happens at the birth to a certain degree. With me, right after I had him I did feel pretty proud of actually managing to give birth so I probably did harp on about it for a while, and in a way I did kind of feel like I was the only who had ever given birth (even though I was on a ward with other women who had too).

Breastfeeding is perhaps just as controversial, if not more. I only managed it for three days due to pain/scabs/baby puking blood, and I did feel like some people looked down on me for giving up. But again it's personal choice, you do what you can.

Am I the only one that thinks it's funny that you started by saying his statement's not accurate and then offered a few examples that completely back up what he said?

soulsinging

Jeanwah wrote:

Sorry, guys, but I think you really need to be a woman to understand this subject fully.

Sigh. Fine. We can never talk about birth, and you can never talk about the male biological imperative to spread one's seed to as many fertile women as possible because you don't have a penis. So stop whining when we cheat, you just don't understand the subject fully.

he still stands

maybe it was just the hospital that we went to... but there was ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that my wife could have gotten a c-section unless she had a medical reason to have one. It is invasive surgery. I can't imagine you could "elect" to do it... but like I said maybe it was the hospital and 10 doctors or so that we saw and not an "industry wide" rule, but I would think that it is at least generally accepted that is the best method.

Medical condition (such as Placenta Previa): C-Section

Ability to have safe/normal delivery: Vaginal delivery

Claireack

soulsinging wrote:

Am I the only one that thinks it's funny that you started by saying his statement's not accurate and then offered a few examples that completely back up what he said?

Yeah I know, I'm a bit contrary. I won't use any examples this time. OK here goes .....

blackredyellow wrote:

I don't know if it's insecurity or competition on whatever, but there seems to be a natural tendency for mothers to find any reason to put down other mothers and to elevate themselves some way or another.

Not everyones like that though.

Wilds

My mother is a widwife.

As a professional she says the biggest problem is that hospitals and doctors choose to perform waaaaaayyyyy more C-sections than they should. Why? Insurance money and convenience.

When a C-section is performed it is quick and easy and covered by insurance to the tune of a higher profit.

Woman pushes for a couple hours, the Dr. says that's enough and they go to C-section.

With that said C-Section is a wonderful thing, it saves the lives of woman and newborns. It is just a shame that an unnecessary surgery is performed when it is not always needed.

Whizbang

I've never had children nor do I want to. That said, I can only speak from the conversations I've had with friends and family who have had varying experiences with child birth - ranging from natural to planned c-sections. And their opinions of both are based on their own experiences.

My sister delivered natural and aside from what she thought at the time as "total bull shit", is proud of her experience. My hair dresser had her first two via c-section - both were premature, issues with her blood levels being toxic and baby in distress. With the medical agreement from her doctor, she opted for natural with her third, believing she truly missed out on an experience. 10hrs of pushing and they had to take her 10lb son via c-section. She thought the natural experience was ridiculous, no need for it, can't believe why women would want to put their bodies and their unborn child through it. Her recovery from all three c-sections were, according to her, a breeze. Another friend was unable to finish naturally with her first child, her recovery after pushing then the c-section was terrible. Her 2nd child, because of her first experience as well as her physical make-up, was a planned c-section. Her 2nd recovery much easier than her first. Two other friends had planned c-sections as their children were breach. Both surgeries were performed by the same doctor. Their recoveries were vastly different based on their own personalities.....some women whimper about a paper cut, others are capable of cutting out their own staples.

My point is that it is a personal decision and I don't think anyone can speak to someone else's experience or judge their decision. Every woman has a horrific birthing story and a wonderful one. Who am I to say they were wrong to choose, ie natural when they complained about ripping, tearing and stitches afterwards? Whether the c-section was medically necessary, for personal or vanity reasons, who am I to say? It is really for no one else to judge but the woman and her doctor.

blondieblue227

Whatever gets the child out safely right?

I do think now that they are given for liability purposes. Because they seem to happen more often.

I’ve often wondered if some where in the future will they’ll be a generation that doesn’t know how to / want to delivery naturally if c-sections become more common.

I know women that beat themselves up for having a c-section. They want to have had that experience. They think they’re less of a woman for having a c-section. That they didn’t do their womanly duty.

If doctors keep an eye on the mom and the baby’s heart rate during the delivery I don’t see what the big deal is.

I was born in 79. My mother had a rough/bad delivery. No c-section. In a hospital.
I have Cerebral Palsy.
So to me, I’m all for c-sections. But of course I would be considering my story.
My younger brother also had a hard time being born. My mom had a c-section with him. he was fine, no CP.

Just something to think about......

pickupyourwill

Everyone had such interesting things to say. Thank you all for shedding more light on the subject. I still want to respond to each post but don't have the time right now.

everything I've just now edited is all irrelevant.

peace & love
cheers to you all!

Satyagraha

this is a great book on the subject, a great short read for anyone who wants to learn about childbirth.

Ina May's Guide to Childbirth
http://www.amazon.com/Ina-Mays-Guide-Childbirth-Gaskin/dp/0553381156

http://www.inamay.com/


c-sections are great in real emergencies!

but with a competent doula or midwife what a doctor thinks is an emergency may not be. frequently they don't want to wait past two hours and suggest there is a problem. much ignorance by the 'experts' we are trained to trust in this area. there is nothing unusual with a birth taking over 12 hours.

in washington state the 'experts' are a bit more knowledgeable on the subject with the influence of a strong doula/midwifery community here and it is acceptable to have your doula/midwife with you in the hospital at the time of birth. (if you choose a hospital birth)

if someone is having a baby the knowledge of what actually goes on inside her body combined with contemplation/meditation on the coming moment is very beneficial. staying calm. . . . .not starting to push until your body is ready.

Push me, pull me... push me, or pull me out

_

Here are a couple of great resources for info and statistcs about c-sections:

http://www.childbirthconnection.org/article.asp?ck=10164

http://www.marchofdimes.com/peristats/default.aspx

Some food for thought:

- The WHO recommends that, for the best outcomes for mothers and babies, populations not have c-section rates higher than 10-15%. Yet the US has a c-section rate of over 30% and private hospitals in Brazil have a c-section rate of over 90%.

- As the rates of c-sections (both primay & repeat) are increasing, the rates of vaginal births after cesarean (VBAC) are decreasing. There are parts of the country where hospitals won't allow women to have vaginal births if they have had a prior c-section, or if they are pregnant with twins or their baby is breech. This is likely due to a lot of things, including lack of trained providers, fear of malpractice lawsuits if something goes wrong, the medicalization of childbirth, etc. The region where you live (see 2nd link above), the location where you deliver, the doctor or midwife you choose, and the type of practice s/he is with can all significantly impact the kind of birth a woman has. (My bias is toward Family Medicine docs for prenatal care & childbirth.)

-C-sections are major surgery with major risk, including death, injury, infecton, longer recovery time, poor outcomes for the baby, and riskier future pregnancies. American women are 2-3 more times likely to die from childbirth if they have c-sections vs. vaginal deliveries. Worldwide, it increases to as much as 10 times more likely. This is all based on population data, of course, and c-sections can be life- and health-saving for some women and babies based on their particular circumstance.

- There's a push to change the language to "cesarean birth" or "abdominal delivery" or some such language that removes the implication of failure that some women may feel if they were not able to give birth naturally.

Very interesting topic!

TravisTheSky

I can highly recommend reading Birthing From Within by Pam England. It's very empowering.

The book is full of what should be Common Sense, knowledge that the last 2 or 3 generations of women have missed out on in this country. It includes some eye-opening statistics about how medical interference often causes a worse outcome. There are some 'art therapy' type of projects that most readers won't be interested in. But the text was an amazing read.


I bought the book 2 years ago when my sister was having her first child. She is a complex mix of conventional and natural approaches, so I gave her the book to influence in any small way I could. (She never mentioned the book, ever, so I guess it had little effect! One of the women in her 'pregnancy yoga' class had her baby almost killed when his skull was pulled off of his brain by a vacuum delivery device. I was horrified, but my sister poo-pooed the event........)

BhagavadGita

Jeanwah wrote:

Doctors want more women to choose c-sections due to liability reasons. With surgery, doctors have better control of what's happening vs. the unpredictability of natural birth. That's a fact, and it's why elective c-sections have become so accepted and popular among 1st time pregnant women afraid of the experience of childbirth (many will elect to be put under the knife rather than actually experience the pain of labor).

I had an last minute c-section after 2 hours of pushing. It was the worst experience of my life. How anyone can choose major abdominal surgery over something that happens naturally (not to mention healing is speedier) is beyond me. I had terrible side effects and a long and painful recovery. Sorry, guys, but I think you really need to be a woman to understand this subject fully.

Well said....

I have a "friend" who actually posted on Facebook the first month of her pregnancy that she was going to make her doctor give her a c-section because she was too afraid of vaginal birth?

WTF?

What doctor would actually do that?

Be careful what you ask for because her baby tried going into pre-mature labor. She has been stuck in bed with IV's and is miserable. I feel bad for her. She will most certainly have a c-section at this point. I guess she gets what she wanted.

I had my naturally (w/ drugs) and it was an experience I will never forget. I am thankful that there was nothing wrong. I would hate to be cut open and then have to go home with a new baby and recovering from a major invasive procedure.

It's not a choice, it's usually because something is going wrong.

JR8805

Having experienced both types of birth, but never "natural childbirth" (which my gynecologist said was so exhausting to her that she didn't really recommend it, but go with whatever you want), I can honestly say that recovery from non-surgical childbirth was a walk in the park compared to recovery from a c-section. I can't imagine having a c-section and post partum depression at the same time because I'm not really good at imagining hell. A c-section is major surgery which takes many weeks to recover from. A vaginal childbirth is what nature intended and takes not many days to recover from.

If a c-section is medically indicated--you or the baby are in big trouble--for godsakes don't think twice--go for it! But, if you're doing it so Aunt Tilly can be there for the delivery, because Big Bubba, your husband/boyfriend thinks you'll be "all stretched out" vaginally if you don't (I recommend stretching his brain to something larger than a size X-small), etc., then I think those are bad, bad reasons to have you and your child go through something which carries such risks when you don't have to.

catefrances

hmmmmm. well ive had 4 children. all vaginally. my first daughter was born in 1986 and was without a doubt the worst experience of my life. i was young and i felt a complete lack of control. i was on my back the entire time and was not allowed to move about the labour ward. my 2nd daughter was born in 1988 and i opted for an epidural. they overdosed me and aside from the giggles that ensued it wasnt the best experience.
fast forward to 1997 when my son was born and i being older decided that this was my show and wed be doing it how i wanted. i opted for no pain killers of any kind and spent my labour walking the halls of the labour ward.i was even admonished for not telling the nursing staff when my water broke .. cause i knew what that would mean for me and i knew that there was no danger in them not knowing anyways. in 1999 whilst pregnant with my youngest daughter i thought giving birth at home would be the way to go. when the time came i wasnt in a good place psychologically and so had her in hospital. but like my son it was a drug free birth and i stayed at home until the last possible moment. finally i got it right.

3 years ago whilst my daughter gave birth to my grandchild i stood by her side and watched as they cut her open layer by layer to deliver the baby by caesarian. un necessarily imo. it was shocking to me. and i couldnt think of anything worse.