what's on your mind, right now?

Shyner

Alot

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

no offence, but I don't consider it particularly brave to not have kids nowadays. Maybe in the 60's, but now it's pretty common. 

I generally don't like kids from about age 6 on (except my own-most of the time). I don't mind a couple of my oldest daughter's friends, and a few of my youngest daughter's friends are just quiet cuties (except one who is the fucking tasmanian devil-thank god she moved away). But I love babies. I'm a sucker for a fat baby. People think, as a large 43 year old man, that it's totally bizarre and that I shouldn't like babies, that I need to be in front of a tv yelling at a football referee, but no, if we were at a friend's house watching the superbowl and there was a baby in the other room, I'd be in the room with the baby (I'm the same with human babies as most people are with animal babies). LOL. But school age kids? no thanks. besides my own, can't stand most of them. especially with my daughter being pre-teen. the way she talks when she's with her friends, good god it makes me want to stab myself in the eye with a fork. I just have to remember how stupid I was/sounded at that age, and you just have to laugh. every generation is basically the same, just different technology. 

I've always known I wanted to have a family. if it didn't happen for me, I wouldn't have been devastated, but I always knew my preference was to have kids.  

I love the Louis CK bit from his SNL monologue: "except for my own, I hate kids, little boys in particular. I hate little boys. I guess I'm the opposite of a pedophile". 

No offense taken, but I disagree. Maybe you feel like that because you're a man. Nobody seems to care if men don't have kids. But women are still very much stuck with a stigma if they don't have kids. They are judged. I am victim to that stigma and that judgement every day.

why would I feel like that simply because of my gender? half the people in my life are women (most of the people in my office are females), many of them don't have kids, and I've never heard anything like this before. I don't know of any women who have ever made a comment about another woman's familial status. Not once. And I've heard LOADS of shitty things women say about one another ("no wonder her husband left her" is one of the more recent ones), but never have I heard anything shaming a woman for not having kids. 

Because people don't lay that expectation on men like they do women, so if you don't experience that judgement and stigma then why would you be very aware of it?
I don't think it's fair of you to simply consider what the people in your own life do and then tell me it's not a thing when I'm telling you it is very much a thing in my own experience. But FYI, it's not about women (or men) sitting around just being catty. It goes way beyond that in so many ways, both subtle and not so much.

where did I say it's not a thing? I said I had never heard it/noticed it before. you are telling me what you experience. I am telling you the exact same thing with different results. me drawing from my own experience is just as valid as you doing the same. 

I would most likely be aware of it because of my EQ and relationship with women, just like anything else not directly affecting my gender. But I can obviously admit that it's possible I don't pick up on it. 

what I am aware of is actually the exact opposite: women being shamed FOR having kids by men in the workplace. it can be a massive uphill battle having career when you may have to stay home with a sick child and miss a meeting with a client. My sister had a massive falling out with her last boss because of this. 

You said it doesn't take any bravery to make the decision I did (to me that says you don't think it's a thing), and I'm telling you that it did, and why.

The whole "he's a consummate bachelor and she's an old spinster" concept is very much alive and well FYI. If you don't think so it's because it doesn't affect you directly.

I do agree that babies and careers are also an issue now - a side effect of being closer to female equality, wherein women have all the old expectations placed on them as well as all the new ones. I think that is a very complicated subject.

ok, let's turn this around. I get "judged" all the time for being "the man of the house" and not being the breadwinner, not being a careerist, not being ambitious. Do I face judgment? Yep. from peers, from friends, from people who I barely know. Just this summer, a woman that is a friend of a friend asked me what I do. I told her. She said "do you LOVE it?". I'm like "nope". And she looked at me like i was a fucking alien. 

Do I think I'm brave for going against social norms? that's a big fat nope. Why? Cause I don't give a shit what others think. which is why I'm surprised you consider it to be a brave choice. you seem like the type that is proud of her "I don't give a fuck"ness. but that's just my perception. 

I find your "consummate bachelor" and "spinster" comment to be incredibly outdated. I don't hear that stuff at all. That's like something from Mad Men. But again, this is in my experience. 

why do all of our conversations turn into fiery debates?

I think it is brave for a man to decide to be, say, a stay at home dad given society's persistent stigmas around that.  I also think it's brave for a man or woman to leave their career to do that.
My perspective of bravery is different I guess. You seem to think giving a fuck about what others think is a requirement for bravery. I actually feel the exact opposite. I think it's brave to NOT give a fuck about what others think, in the face of societal expectation. Are you not aware that the vast majority of people DO give a fuck and that's why they bow to the pressure instead of resisting it?

Yeah, I still see and hear comments about how poor women over 40 are going to be alone forever, and oh no, what's wrong with them that they couldn't land a man, and oh no, she's going to regret not having kids after it's too late. And I still observe that men who remain bachelors and childless are often admired and just considered to be playboys. That is true in pop culture especially, but in real life too. I am really surprised you two are denying this is a thing. I think it's really obvious. Is it perhaps that you both ignored by quotation marks around the terms I used? I didn't mean that people literally go around saying those specific words, lol. I assumed you'd understand that.

So many of our conversations turn into "fiery debates" because we care, man. We care.

no, I don't think giving a fuck what others think is a requirement for bravery. I just happen to think, in this context, that neither is brave. I don't consider myself brave for not giving a fuck. I just don't give a fuck. I just don't consider living your life the way you want is brave. I think it's admirable, but I think brave is a stretch. 

I'm not denying it's a thing. yes, it exists in hollywood and pop culture, there is no question about that. All I said was, I have not experienced it in my daily life. It is not something I have ever heard a childless/single woman mention, and yes, I know several. And I talk about deep things when in conversation. And there are many things some of the cattier women in my office say, and that isn't one of them. So it was more the claim that "you experience it daily" had me wondering. If you say so, fine, but it just hasn't been my experience. 

I honestly think that playboy image is dated. I don't find that the image if being a playboy is as alluring as it once was. as each sex's rights and freedoms and societal norms move closer towards the middle, that's how I see it. 

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

dankind said:

I think the general consensus is that if you're a dreamy George Clooney or something and your 40+ and single, cool. Get you some!

If, on the other hand, you're just some regular 40+ schlubby dude without any prospects for even a date, you're pathetic and maybe even a perv. Let's cross the street, kids!

Not my view, mind you. I have two fairly successful friends my age who probably haven't even gone on a date for two years. Other than them both being admittedly lonely at times, I don't think anything is wrong with them. A lot of other folks do, though. And I think that causes them to be very self-conscious. One of them won't even talk to women because he thinks they'll think he's some kind of creep.

I hadn't actually thought of that - the "type" of man you are determines how people view that, but yeah, now that you mention it, that's totally true about men in that age bracket who are single/never married (I'm thinking divorcees are different?). It's not fucking fair. Is that true of being childless too though? What if they are married without children? Do they have dickheads telling them how they better get on it before it's too late, and that they'll regret their decision not to have kids later, and calling them selfish for not having them?

a buddy of mine is my age. just moved back to winnipeg after being in BC for 20 years. never been married, no kids. he was in a common law type situation for years and she had a kid, but then that ended. he went on and on about how he envies me for having a family and whatnot, and I asked him, "do you feel that way because you want a family or because you perceive everyone else around you as having one and you want to be part of the crowd". he didn't really have an answer to that. i mean, he comes across as a guy who loves his independence, but then when he tries to make plans with one of us, and we're busy because because of family or couple obligations, he gets depressed. so I think it's the latter. I don't see anyone telling him he needs to get a woman to be happy, but how knows. 

I can't imagine the effort in trying to find a partner at our age. i hated dating my whole life, it would be hell for me at this age. if my wife ever leaves me, that's it. I'm done. 

PJ_Soul

Lol. M'kay.

Person A: "I'm proud of myself - it was hard for me but I did it anyway. It felt kinda brave!"

Person B and C: "You shouldn't be and it wasn't. It's no big deal and nobody cares."

Person A:

hedonist

So again...it comes down to experience - and (mis)perceptions too, I think.

My own sense of a lack of so-called bravery doesn't dismiss or even minimize someone else believing it's courageous to make the same choice.

hedonist

I've put the kiddo talk aside, and it's all alright.

Loving on Lennon (despite the song's title) - wondering what might've been had that motherfucker Chapman not entered his scene.

What'cha say?

Whistle on, ya SOB.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIYRbbHMesg

Thoughts_Arrive

hedonist said:

I've put the kiddo talk aside, and it's all alright.

Loving on Lennon (despite the song's title) - wondering what might've been had that motherfucker Chapman not entered his scene.

What'cha say?

Whistle on, ya SOB.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIYRbbHMesg

Nobody loves you, Chapman.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

Lol. M'kay.

Person A: "I'm proud of myself - it was hard for me but I did it anyway. It felt kinda brave!"

Person B and C: "You shouldn't be and it wasn't. It's no big deal and nobody cares."

Person A:

I would obviously never say that to a person. what someone else considers a brave act to themselves is fine with me. I'm just saying here, in this conversation, that I have different criteria on what constitutes bravery than you. it's such a subjective term, not sure why it's such a big deal that my criteria differs from yours. 

Ms. Haiku

I had an interview last week with three staff. They requested a follow-up interview next week with eight staff. I'm so excited!

lastexitlondon

^^^  

23scidoo

Ms. Haiku said:

I had an interview last week with three staff. They requested a follow-up interview next week with eight staff. I'm so excited!

Nice!!

BLACK35

My wife sitting at home nursing her foot that she broke yesterday at work. Have to wait for swelling to go down and then surgery on this Saturday morning at 7:00 am

northerndragon

BLACK35 said:

My wife sitting at home nursing her foot that she broke yesterday at work. Have to wait for swelling to go down and then surgery on this Saturday morning at 7:00 am

That truly sucks. I broke my foot earlier this year and it was 3-4 months of torture before the boot came off full time. Wishing her a speedy recovery. 

markymark550

BLACK35 said:

My wife sitting at home nursing her foot that she broke yesterday at work. Have to wait for swelling to go down and then surgery on this Saturday morning at 7:00 am

Hope she has a successful surgery and a quick recovery.

BLACK35

northerndragon said:

BLACK35 said:

My wife sitting at home nursing her foot that she broke yesterday at work. Have to wait for swelling to go down and then surgery on this Saturday morning at 7:00 am

That truly sucks. I broke my foot earlier this year and it was 3-4 months of torture before the boot came off full time. Wishing her a speedy recovery.

Well I hope things healed alright for you. I think this is going to be a long road. I going to skip the part about the 3-4 months of torture and the boot, its already driving her crazy. She is going to end up with some pins and a plate in her foot at the end of all this. 
You most likely won't remember her. But you did meet her & I briefly at Toronto 1 2016. You and Susan were waiting in the GA line up when I bumped into Susan. Thanks for your well wishes. 

northerndragon

BLACK35 said:

northerndragon said:

BLACK35 said:

My wife sitting at home nursing her foot that she broke yesterday at work. Have to wait for swelling to go down and then surgery on this Saturday morning at 7:00 am

That truly sucks. I broke my foot earlier this year and it was 3-4 months of torture before the boot came off full time. Wishing her a speedy recovery.

Well I hope things healed alright for you. I think this is going to be a long road. I going to skip the part about the 3-4 months of torture and the boot, its already driving her crazy. She is going to end up with some pins and a plate in her foot at the end of all this. 
You most likely won't remember her. But you did meet her & I briefly at Toronto 1 2016. You and Susan were waiting in the GA line up when I bumped into Susan. Thanks for your well wishes. 

You're right, all the people I met that day kind of blended together. But everyone I met that day was great. 
My foot is doing well, still not allowed heels but other than that I'm back to doing pretty much everything else. I didn't need surgery but the way I broke it required two months of non weight bearing followed by six more weeks in the boot.
All I can say is if she can get an aircast then go for it. It means she can take it off to shower and just let her foot breathe from time to time. That pretty much saved my sanity.

RogueStoner

northerndragon said:

BLACK35 said:

My wife sitting at home nursing her foot that she broke yesterday at work. Have to wait for swelling to go down and then surgery on this Saturday morning at 7:00 am

That truly sucks. I broke my foot earlier this year and it was 3-4 months of torture before the boot came off full time. Wishing her a speedy recovery. 

It sure was torture! For the rest of us. You sure get cranky when you can't move about freely.
Also...yeah, like you need heels! Sure, go ahead, be greedy. Take it all! The height, the boobs, the sanity. What do I need any of that for?

 

lastexitlondon

On my mind is some people in lost dogs are born trouble makers. Just why?

northerndragon

RogueStoner said:

northerndragon said:l.p.

BLACK35 said:

My wife sitting at home nursing her foot that she broke yesterday at work. Have to wait for swelling to go down and then surgery on this Saturday morning at 7:00 am

That truly sucks. I broke my foot earlier this year and it was 3-4 months of torture before the boot came off full time. Wishing her a speedy recovery. 

It sure was torture! For the rest of us. You sure get cranky when you can't move about freely.
Also...yeah, like you need heels! Sure, go ahead, be greedy. Take it all! The height, the boobs, the sanity. What do I need any of that for?

 

You forgot about the eyebrows.

dankind

northerndragon said:

RogueStoner said:

northerndragon said:l.p.

BLACK35 said:

My wife sitting at home nursing her foot that she broke yesterday at work. Have to wait for swelling to go down and then surgery on this Saturday morning at 7:00 am

That truly sucks. I broke my foot earlier this year and it was 3-4 months of torture before the boot came off full time. Wishing her a speedy recovery. 

It sure was torture! For the rest of us. You sure get cranky when you can't move about freely.
Also...yeah, like you need heels! Sure, go ahead, be greedy. Take it all! The height, the boobs, the sanity. What do I need any of that for?

 

You forgot about the eyebrows.

And I have the hair.