Video: Glenn Beck refuses to define "White Culture"

aerial

I see your point. But this is why it was so effective, even though it was "struck down by the Supreme COurt" it is still being used in many places.

I guess it's governed by activists like Jesse Jackson and white guilt. The PR is bad, so let's make sure we look good. BUt it doesn't matter if it's a law or not, it's reality.[/quote]

No arguing that. There are definitely those that abuse the system and to an extent I've no doubt some companies just do it to cover their asses in case they don't hire someone and that person sues. But I think this is an issue of putting the cart before the horse. I truly believe this sort of thing was and has been necessary to an extent, and that it will increasingly disappear over the next generation or two. Self-imposed hiring guidelines are hardly an evil thing, and as a free market guy, surely you can't be that upset over companies choosing to do this based on market forces like the possibility of bad PR? It's the cost of doing business. Besides, lawsuits like that are harder and harder to win anymore, it's just that we only hear about the most absurd stories in the news because of people like Jackson and Sharpton. Overall, I think this is a problem that is going to solve itself. We've made a lot of progress in 40 years, and another 40 could render these concerns moot. But I don't think the problem is affirmative action itself, which is a legit business practice. It's publicity hounds abusing the system... and I don't think a fe bad apples are cause to condemn what has largely been a pretty good social policy of rectifying past discrimination that has effectively revolutionized the American workplace for the better on the whole.

Of course, the great irony will be that in 40 years whites will be a minority as much as blacks, and latinos and hispanics will be the majority. Then we'll get to hear folks like Buchanan saying how unfair hispanic prejudice is and how we need affirmative action to get whites back to work [/quote]



I Think Buchanan is saying how long do whites have to pay for the slavery era or be accused of holding the black man down. What else do they want and when will it be over? Seeing that
everyone today agrees slavery was an atrousity. Wrongs in History should not be used as an excuse today. Be yellow black or white we are all equal.

soulsinging

aerial wrote:

I Think Buchanan is saying how long do whites have to pay for the slavery era or be accused of holding the black man down. What else do they want and when will it be over? Seeing that
everyone today agrees slavery was an atrousity. Wrongs in History should not be used as an excuse today. Be yellow black or white we are all equal.

And I'm saying AT LEAST until all those of the generation that grew up under Jim Crow have passed on. How long before you forget 9/11 and let the Arab world off the hook for that atrocity? I bet you carry that mistrust to your grave, as you should. Let's give the black community the same consideration. Until there are no blacks alive that remember living white neighbors hosing them down in the streets, they're entitled to a bit of a grudge and mistrust. Just like we're entitled to not trust the Arab world until they can prove over the long haul that something like 9/11 is not going to happen again.

rebornFixer

History should never be forgotten ... But remembering is different from a refusal to move on.

rebornFixer

soulsinging wrote:

aerial wrote:

I Think Buchanan is saying how long do whites have to pay for the slavery era or be accused of holding the black man down. What else do they want and when will it be over? Seeing that
everyone today agrees slavery was an atrousity. Wrongs in History should not be used as an excuse today. Be yellow black or white we are all equal.

And I'm saying AT LEAST until all those of the generation that grew up under Jim Crow have passed on. How long before you forget 9/11 and let the Arab world off the hook for that atrocity? I bet you carry that mistrust to your grave, as you should. Let's give the black community the same consideration. Until there are no blacks alive that remember living white neighbors hosing them down in the streets, they're entitled to a bit of a grudge and mistrust. Just like we're entitled to not trust the Arab world until they can prove over the long haul that something like 9/11 is not going to happen again.

Personally, I don't think that anyone is "entitled" to any emotional reaction. Feel free to try to persuade me that "healthy cultural paranoia" is a good thing ... Maybe insofar as it could help a black individual recognize a bona fide instance of discrimination and then do something about this. However, this is different from having such a large chip on one's shoulder that one starts seeing "the enemy" in situations where said enemy does not exist. It might come as a surprise to you that some non-minorities know what prejudice feels like, soulsinging. Some of your comments about "whites" are as ranty and inflammatory as the remarks about black people that set you off.

soulsinging

rebornFixer wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

aerial wrote:

I Think Buchanan is saying how long do whites have to pay for the slavery era or be accused of holding the black man down. What else do they want and when will it be over? Seeing that
everyone today agrees slavery was an atrousity. Wrongs in History should not be used as an excuse today. Be yellow black or white we are all equal.

And I'm saying AT LEAST until all those of the generation that grew up under Jim Crow have passed on. How long before you forget 9/11 and let the Arab world off the hook for that atrocity? I bet you carry that mistrust to your grave, as you should. Let's give the black community the same consideration. Until there are no blacks alive that remember living white neighbors hosing them down in the streets, they're entitled to a bit of a grudge and mistrust. Just like we're entitled to not trust the Arab world until they can prove over the long haul that something like 9/11 is not going to happen again.

Personally, I don't think that anyone is "entitled" to any emotional reaction. Feel free to try to persuade me that "healthy cultural paranoia" is a good thing ... Maybe insofar as it could help a black individual recognize a bona fide instance of discrimination and then do something about this. However, this is different from having such a large chip on one's shoulder that one starts seeing "the enemy" in situations where said enemy does not exist. It might come as a surprise to you that some non-minorities know what prejudice feels like, soulsinging. Some of your comments about "whites" are as ranty and inflammatory as the remarks about black people that set you off.

feel free to enlighten me.

aerial

feel free to enlighten me.

There used to be a time you could not get a decent job if you had an over abundance of tattoos. You would be labeled a rebel, lawbreaker, or maybe a bad ass biker
All Long haired men were considered dirty hippies, and could not find good employment until they cut their hair.
Unwed Mothers were considered to be a disgrace.
The jews who lived thru the holocaust.

One for today would be the elderly, senior citizens

rebornFixer

soulsinging wrote:

And I'm saying AT LEAST until all those of the generation that grew up under Jim Crow have passed on. How long before you forget 9/11 and let the Arab world off the hook for that atrocity? I bet you carry that mistrust to your grave, as you should. Let's give
feel free to enlighten me.

I don't know what you're asking. Enlighten you about what? I said my piece.

soulsinging

rebornFixer wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

And I'm saying AT LEAST until all those of the generation that grew up under Jim Crow have passed on. How long before you forget 9/11 and let the Arab world off the hook for that atrocity? I bet you carry that mistrust to your grave, as you should. Let's give
feel free to enlighten me.

I don't know what you're asking. Enlighten you about what? I said my piece.

All this prejudice you've been subjected to as a white man. All the times you got pulled over for DWB.

I never said cultural paranoia is a good thing or that the black community is correct not to trust white America. I think we have come a very long way and a lot of the mistrust is unjustified now. But I also think it's perfectly understandable that they do have a bit of paranoia and that ranting and whining about how they should be grateful to us and just get over it is not going to help anything. We should just shut our mouths and prove them wrong through our actions, lead by example. Not by throwing white male rage fits about how we're so oppressed and blacks have it made here. Actions speak far louder than words and those tantrums help nothing.

rebornFixer

soulsinging wrote:

I never said cultural paranoia is a good thing or that the black community is correct not to trust white America. I think we have come a very long way and a lot of the mistrust is unjustified now. But I also think it's perfectly understandable that they do have a bit of paranoia and that ranting and whining about how they should be grateful to us and just get over it is not going to help anything. We should just shut our mouths and prove them wrong through our actions, lead by example. Not by throwing white male rage fits about how we're so oppressed and blacks have it made here. Actions speak far louder than words and those tantrums help nothing.

At the risk of being accused of having a "white man rage fit" or tantrum, I will share ...
I grew up in a northern community that was largely aboriginal ... I am part aboriginal myself, but a small part. I got bullied, physically attacked, and harassed for being white, as did other people in my family. So yes, I actually DO know what these manifestations of racism feel like, on a personal and emotional level. I went on to marry an aborginal woman and I have learned how to appreciate and value a culture that I feel suits many of my values better than mainstream white society does. But in order to do this, I had to move past experiences like being beaten to the point of suffering broken bones. Can I understand why some people get incredibly bitter after being victimized for what they look like? Absolutely. But if one fails to move past these sorts of experiences, what happens? One stays bitter, angry, and ultimately powerless ... There is a lot to be learned from suffering. Is this the same thing as my ancestors being enslaved? Absolutely not. I will point out, though, that in some ways, being a direct victim is a lot worse than inheriting a history legacy. Many blacks in the U.S. in fact belong to the middle class. Many are actually quite wealthy. How many white men are poor? Millions. I personally know several people that have been on the receiving end of affirmative action policies that likely left them unemployed. Like cincy said, its not a myth. You can dismiss all this as whining, or you could attempt to see that some human experiences (like injustice or prejudice) are probably universal. Sure, I don't doubt that a lot of ranting comes from privedged people who are just being defensive. I'd be wary of painting everyone with that brush, though, lest you inadvertently do what you are railing so hard against.

soulsinging

rebornFixer wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

I never said cultural paranoia is a good thing or that the black community is correct not to trust white America. I think we have come a very long way and a lot of the mistrust is unjustified now. But I also think it's perfectly understandable that they do have a bit of paranoia and that ranting and whining about how they should be grateful to us and just get over it is not going to help anything. We should just shut our mouths and prove them wrong through our actions, lead by example. Not by throwing white male rage fits about how we're so oppressed and blacks have it made here. Actions speak far louder than words and those tantrums help nothing.

At the risk of being accused of having a "white man rage fit" or tantrum, I will share ...
I grew up in a northern community that was largely aboriginal ... I am part aboriginal myself, but a small part. I got bullied, physically attacked, and harassed for being white, as did other people in my family. So yes, I actually DO know what these manifestations of racism feel like, on a personal and emotional level. I went on to marry an aborginal woman and I have learned how to appreciate and value a culture that I feel suits many of my values better than mainstream white society does. But in order to do this, I had to move past experiences like being beaten to the point of suffering broken bones. Can I understand why some people get incredibly bitter after being victimized for what they look like? Absolutely. But if one fails to move past these sorts of experiences, what happens? One stays bitter, angry, and ultimately powerless ... There is a lot to be learned from suffering. Is this the same thing as my ancestors being enslaved? Absolutely not. I will point out, though, that in some ways, being a direct victim is a lot worse than inheriting a history legacy. Many blacks in the U.S. in fact belong to the middle class. Many are actually quite wealthy. How many white men are poor? Millions. I personally know several people that have been on the receiving end of affirmative action policies that likely left them unemployed. Like cincy said, its not a myth. You can dismiss all this as whining, or you could attempt to see that some human experiences (like injustice or prejudice) are probably universal. Sure, I don't doubt that a lot of ranting comes from privedged people who are just being defensive. I'd be wary of painting everyone with that brush, though, lest you inadvertently do what you are railing so hard against.

What is a largely aboriginal northern community? I'm confused... I've never heard that term. What does it mean? That sounds pretty horrific.

rebornFixer

soulsinging wrote:

What is a largely aboriginal northern community? I'm confused... I've never heard that term. What does it mean? That sounds pretty horrific.

It means a community where aboriginal people were the numerical majority ... I grew up in northern Saskatchewan, in Canada. You've never heard what term before? Did I stop using the English language? There's nothing to define, unless you don't know what the word aboriginal means.

gimmesometruth27

rebornFixer wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

What is a largely aboriginal northern community? I'm confused... I've never heard that term. What does it mean? That sounds pretty horrific.

It means a community where aboriginal people were the numerical majority ... I grew up in northern Saskatchewan, in Canada. You've never heard what term before? Did I stop using the English language? There's nothing to define, unless you don't know what the word aboriginal means.

forgive my ignorance but i did not know what you meant either. i am not familiar with northern saskatchewan. i would think most americans were clueless as well. no need to be standoffish. he was just asking the question i did not know how to ask.

rebornFixer

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

forgive my ignorance but i did not know what you meant either. i am not familiar with northern saskatchewan. i would think most americans were clueless as well. no need to be standoffish. he was just asking the question i did not know how to ask.

Fair enough ... I probably came off as a prick and I apologize. My experiences are probably fairly unique, I admit, but I still don't get the view that all white folks are super-priveledged, sheltered, ignorant of other cultures, and immune to discrimination ... These ideas come up a lot and they are bogus from my perspective, I suppose because these ideas are really pretty far from my own experiences. I dunno. I've been on this board forever and have a lot of respect for soulsinging after reading so many of his posts ... But do some people really think that certain cultural or racial groups don't have to deal with adversity? I am probably reading too much into what he said, granted. Oh well. Back to talking about Glenn Beck and his fake crying.

soulsinging

rebornFixer wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

forgive my ignorance but i did not know what you meant either. i am not familiar with northern saskatchewan. i would think most americans were clueless as well. no need to be standoffish. he was just asking the question i did not know how to ask.

Fair enough ... I probably came off as a prick and I apologize. My experiences are probably fairly unique, I admit, but I still don't get the view that all white folks are super-priveledged, sheltered, ignorant of other cultures, and immune to discrimination ... These ideas come up a lot and they are bogus from my perspective, I suppose because these ideas are really pretty far from my own experiences. I dunno. I've been on this board forever and have a lot of respect for soulsinging after reading so many of his posts ... But do some people really think that certain cultural or racial groups don't have to deal with adversity? I am probably reading too much into what he said, granted. Oh well. Back to talking about Glenn Beck and his fake crying.

No. But I do think that in the USA, white europeans do not have to deal with anything remotely approaching what black americans do. I'm sorry for what you went through, but they have little to do with race relations in the US. and that is what i was discussing. i never meant to imply that no white/caucasian person has ever had it bad. i was speaking solely to white america vs black america. i'm sorry if i did not make that clear.

catefrances

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

rebornFixer wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

What is a largely aboriginal northern community? I'm confused... I've never heard that term. What does it mean? That sounds pretty horrific.

It means a community where aboriginal people were the numerical majority ... I grew up in northern Saskatchewan, in Canada. You've never heard what term before? Did I stop using the English language? There's nothing to define, unless you don't know what the word aboriginal means.

forgive my ignorance but i did not know what you meant either. i am not familiar with northern saskatchewan. i would think most americans were clueless as well. no need to be standoffish. he was just asking the question i did not know how to ask.

haha funnily enough i thought i was reading the postings of an indigenous australian living in the northern territory til i saw the word saskatchewan.

soulsinging

catefrances wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

rebornFixer wrote:

It means a community where aboriginal people were the numerical majority ... I grew up in northern Saskatchewan, in Canada. You've never heard what term before? Did I stop using the English language? There's nothing to define, unless you don't know what the word aboriginal means.

forgive my ignorance but i did not know what you meant either. i am not familiar with northern saskatchewan. i would think most americans were clueless as well. no need to be standoffish. he was just asking the question i did not know how to ask.

haha funnily enough i thought i was reading the postings of an indigenous australian living in the northern territory til i saw the word saskatchewan.

yeah, there aren't many northern aboriginal communities in the usa so i was hopelessly confused. i was wondering if there was some rash of anti-white sentiment in the maine lumberjack community or alaskan eskimos or something.

inmytree

damn...all these posts and I still can't find a definition of "white culture"....

RW81233

A. That's because race doesn't exist biologically, it's all a figment of our social imagination. So basically what constitutes who is/was white has never been the same here in the US or elsewhere. In other words if we can't define what White is, then how can we have a White Culture?

B. The difference between all the white "indentured servants" and black "slaves" is that, partially through skin color, the former have been allowed access to upward social mobility, whereas the latter are still oppressed because of the color of their skin. More to the point, and agreeing with soulsinging, would any of you who are "white" ever want to switch the color of your skin, have your median average income drop from 45k to 30k (does this mean all whites are rich and all blacks poor - no, but you have a 30% chance of living in poverty if you are black vs. 10% if white according to the 2000 census), move to housing which reflects what you can now afford, and deal with the social stigmatism (like DWB, getting followed around stores while shopping, always having to prove you were a "safe" black, etc.) that comes with being a 'racial' minority in America. Of course you would get the benefit of BET, Miss Black America Beauty pageants, HBCUs, so I guess we'll call it even - so no complaining if you chose that option. If you wouldn't want to switch then that is the definition of unearned privilege from "White Culture".

rebornFixer

inmytree wrote:

damn...all these posts and I still can't find a definition of "white culture"....

Well, like I stated earlier, I am not so sure that its easy to come up with a concise verbal definition of ANY culture.
What's black culture? Hip-hop and saying "aks" instead of "ask"? No, because those are stereotypes that probably do not describe a majority of African American individuals. Just like NASCAR and trailer parks. soulsinging is right in that there is a shared culture history there that does not exist for Caucasian groups in North America, perhaps ... But there's more to having a culture than one pivotal event in a group's history. Seriously, define any given culture in an truly inclusive way without using racial/physical variables ... Its not easy to put into words.

Flutter Girl

I'm sure you are already aware I'm referring to section 2 in the Constitution, of course..
There are lots of letters showing their distaste for slavery and actually specifically refer to the three-fifths rule and it's purpose..For instance, Gouverneur Morris, who assisted James Madison throughout the entire process of drafting the Constitution, and was on the committee that decided on it's final draft, described slavery as a "nefarious institution...The curse of heaven on states where it prevails." He also argued that congressional representationshould be based on "one for every 40,000 free inhabitants." He was a vehement opponent of slavery and opposed the three-fifths compromise cos he felt it wuld still allow the southern states enough representation to keep slavery going indefinately.

Madison, himself, said in a speech that slavery was a great evil, but to show what I mean about why he wrote the second section the way he did, rather than include freedom for slaves right off the bat, it was because he knew the weight of keeping the union together and creating the United States- "Great as the evil is, a dismemberment of the union would be worse."

In 1786 George Washington wrote- "I can only say there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do, to see a plan adopted for the abolition of it."

In 1819, John Adam's wrote in a letter- Every measure of prudence, therefore, ought to be assumed for the eventual total extirpation of slavery from the United States...I have, through my whole life, held the practice of slavery in abhorrence."

1789, Franklin wrote- "Slavery is such an atrocious debasement of human nature."

There are many more speeches and letters referring to it..

At the time Jefferson declared that all men were free and equal, about half a million were not.
He was attempting to protest the wrongs of slavery, right there in our Declaration of Independence. Adam's believed that the passages condemning slavery were the best parts of the Declaration. Yet the southern states strongly opposed Jefferson's position and would not vote for independence as long as those passages were included, so the position was stricken from the final draft.

Actually there was even a 20 year time limit put on the importation of slaves in the Constituton. Article 1, Section 9 was written to ban the slave trade in 1808. And the words 'slavery" and "slave" were deliberately left out of the document.

In the Federalist, Madison wrote- "It ought to be considered as a great point gained in favor of humanity, that a period of twenty years may terminate forever within these States, a traffic which has so long and so loudly upbraided the barbarism of modern policy"

I really never quite understood why there are some blacks that intentionally chose to not celebrate the 4th of July. Had we not declared independence, we would have continued to be a British territory and slavery would have continued here for far longer than it did. It should be a celebration of the first step toward ending slavery in the United States.

In any case, yes, they were very involved in it, did actively take a stand, and it was a very strong position against it that they held. The people who tell people otherwise should research and learn this country's history before speaking like a voice of authority on the subject because unfortunately, it has become popular belief that they were either a bunch of KKK types, or as you have been led to believe, just didn't care.

---

In re to the person saying that this is not a Christian nation..I'm not religious, nor am I pushing any Christian agenda, but the great majority of this country is some form of Christian. By great majority, I mean nearly 80%. so this actually is essentially a Christian nation.