I could care less if they play as many shows as Phish & the Dead did, but please diversify your setlists like these bands did. I can't be disappointed with PJ's current setlist diversification, but take it up a notch. Have faith in your WHOLE catalog. It's good shit
First, the question was could PJ tour as much as the Dead and Phish, not could the Dead and Phish pull in the same numbers as PJ outside the US. On the latter half (a question no one asked), you're right - they can't. The biggest reason is that Jerry's dead and Phish aren't currently together.
Second, you're right - Phish played small clubs in Europe. So what - they fit in a Europe tour in addition to a very full US set of tours. The question asked was, can Pearl Jam do as many tour dates? The number of people at shows has no real connection to the number of shows you can book. So, yes, Pearl Jam could do that many shows - it's possible.
The bottom line, though, is that they don't. I'm sure there are many reasons. One of the tops is probably that touring like that is hard. It's one of the reasons Phish took the 00-03 hiatus - they needed some time off the road for many reasons, including spending time with their families.
So, relax, no one is disparaging Pearl Jam - we're all fans.
with the Dead, Phish and PJ: simply put - loyal fans who expect and almost always receive a new show each time via a hell of a catalog, a respect for their roots (great covers) and a real connection with their fans.....which as we all know changes each night as well. That's why the comparisons fly. But there is no way PJ can or would even want to marathon tour. It's just not their style and they have all sorts of other things going on simultaneously.
PS. I am hopeful that all indications point to Phish recording this winter and playing next summer. Man, do I miss those guys. But that's another subject entirely....
Perfect lefts come rolling in...loyal believer since '92
First, the question was could PJ tour as much as the Dead and Phish, not could the Dead and Phish pull in the same numbers as PJ outside the US. On the latter half (a question no one asked), you're right - they can't. The biggest reason is that Jerry's dead and Phish aren't currently together.
Second, you're right - Phish played small clubs in Europe. So what - they fit in a Europe tour in addition to a very full US set of tours. The question asked was, can Pearl Jam do as many tour dates? The number of people at shows has no real connection to the number of shows you can book. So, yes, Pearl Jam could do that many shows - it's possible.
The bottom line, though, is that they don't. I'm sure there are many reasons. One of the tops is probably that touring like that is hard. It's one of the reasons Phish took the 00-03 hiatus - they needed some time off the road for many reasons, including spending time with their families.
So, relax, no one is disparaging Pearl Jam - we're all fans.
I agree.... been thinking about this all night. PJ would have to really plan it out, as far as setlists. The energy on stage is definitely at a different level. I think if they broke out the whole catalogue and actually sat a put some thought into it , it could happen.
It's also a different day an age as far as fans alot have grown up and have real jobs and could afford to travel with the band so I think they could do world wide stints and get many fans veen if it was in Antartica.
phish played basements in europe and you'll be hard pressed to find an australian who even knows who the fuck they are.
the dead went to egypt and maybe 300 people showed up...all existing deadhead trust fund babies from the US.
when pearl jam plays europe, they clean up...same with OZ.
if they played the middle east, bet your ass people would show up.
so the question really is....could those other bands tour like pearl jam does....and the answer is a resounding NO.
Ok well Phish they were a bit more out there for me to understand. But IMO you go around the world and show the dead's logo to people. They will say Jerry Garcia and the Grateful Dead most of the time. lol The dead didn't need to travel the world that much. They tried but the first few times they always had a bunch of different drugs on them. It wasn't worth the risk.
Europe 72 tour it was alot of there friends and family members/girlfriends. But they did play for a decent amount of locals as well.
PJ is a band that can and do very well touring, one of the few. Why cause it's great music for a good amount of people that can and will travel to see them.
I enjoy these Dead/PJ chats that pop up now and then on here.
Before anyone gets all jumpy, I'm just providing the number of shows that Grateful Dead and Phish played over a 10 year period, not saying any band is better than PJ or PJ can't do this or that, I'm just providing stats nothing more nothing less.
It just aint summer without the big ole GD stadium parties. And you could count on the dead to be in your neck of the woods three times a year, for at least two shows each time-like clockwork
for me PJ absolutely filled the void left by Jerrys demise and ultimate passing.
the similarities:
The business model of the fan club
The devotion of the fans to the band (PJ fans are nuts, but dead heads are a WHOLE OTHER THING)
The devotion and respect PJ has for its music and the music of others-mixing up its sets, playing with other musicians etc...
The forgoing of commercial opportunities in favor of "doing their own thing"
But musically, they are on opposite ends of the spectrum.
I dont think PJ could tour as much as the Dead. It would kill them.
Before anyone gets all jumpy, I'm just providing the number of shows that Grateful Dead and Phish played over a 10 year period, not saying any band is better than PJ or PJ can't do this or that, I'm just providing stats nothing more nothing less.
Pearl Jam is the band I wished Grateful Dead to be.
I went to a lot of Dead shows and they were incredible and life changing but I always thought they were missing a huge opportunity by focussing on the hippie hang out zone. I wished they dealt more strongly with issues but they generally refused to take a stance on anything other than supporting some environmental orgs.
I always thought, "the world is going to shit and all you guys are doing is goofing around" That's great but that's why Pearl Jam is way better for me.
Pearl Jam is energizing, they make bold statements, get people thinking and striiring the shit up to try and make something better. They do not waste the opportunity.
Great music and musicianship aside, Pearl Jam are the shit disturbers I wished Grateful Dead would have done more of.
In terms of the touring - PJ fans follow them around because they are musicians and can play songs at will and change up sets. Just what GD did, which is why their scene evolved. PJ is definately heading in that direction and I don't think there is any going back unless they stop touring.
PJ is WAY BETTER.
Pearl Jam is the band I wished Grateful Dead to be.
I went to a lot of Dead shows and they were incredible and life changing but I always thought they were missing a huge opportunity by focussing on the hippie hang out zone. I wished they dealt more strongly with issues but they generally refused to take a stance on anything other than supporting some environmental orgs.
I always thought, "the world is going to shit and all you guys are doing is goofing around" That's great but that's why Pearl Jam is way better for me.
Pearl Jam is energizing, they make bold statements, get people thinking and striiring the shit up to try and make something better. They do not waste the opportunity.
Great music and musicianship aside, Pearl Jam are the shit disturbers I wished Grateful Dead would have done more of.
In terms of the touring - PJ fans follow them around because they are musicians and can play songs at will and change up sets. Just what GD did, which is why their scene evolved. PJ is definately heading in that direction and I don't think there is any going back unless they stop touring.
PJ is WAY BETTER.
The Rex Foundation supported all kinds of charities so I think the GD did what they could, but without creating a frenzy...which is why the band hardly said a word on stage. I dont think you necessarily need to be as bold as PJ are about making some statements and certainly PJ(ev?) are perhaps more at fault(?) for making too much of some things...so there is a fine balance. I'm sure a lot of PJ fans wish the band would say less and sing more
The GD never really alienated their fans in the same way that EV/PJ sometimes do. When the GD "spoke" it was about things affecting all humans (climate change)and not just mostly politics...but who knows in today's charged up climate maybe the GD would have said more...certainly Bobby and the boys have made known who they are supporting in the upcoming election. Times have changed since 1995.
As far as PJ being "better" that's a tough one to prove to me, as it's based on one's personal opinion. Let me just say this...there will never ever be anyone like Garcia again. Kinda hard to describe what he had that made him so damn special, but, I suppose, it really comes down to heart&soul. I'm not saying no one in PJ has that, but certainly not to the extent that JG did...when JG sang and played those delicate notes it literally pierced your skin right to the bone.
No one I can think of today has that magic...but perhaps that's just me, the jaded fan, speaking out
Exactly, and the overall quality of shows would go way down. I saw alot of Dead shows in my day, some were stunning, some rank as some of the worst shows I have ever seen.....
Pearl Jam is the band I wished Grateful Dead to be.
I went to a lot of Dead shows and they were incredible and life changing but I always thought they were missing a huge opportunity by focussing on the hippie hang out zone. I wished they dealt more strongly with issues but they generally refused to take a stance on anything other than supporting some environmental orgs.
I always thought, "the world is going to shit and all you guys are doing is goofing around" That's great but that's why Pearl Jam is way better for me.
Pearl Jam is energizing, they make bold statements, get people thinking and striiring the shit up to try and make something better. They do not waste the opportunity.
Great music and musicianship aside, Pearl Jam are the shit disturbers I wished Grateful Dead would have done more of.
In terms of the touring - PJ fans follow them around because they are musicians and can play songs at will and change up sets. Just what GD did, which is why their scene evolved. PJ is definately heading in that direction and I don't think there is any going back unless they stop touring.
PJ is WAY BETTER.
The Rex Foundation helps a LOT of groups and are not just "supporting some environmental orgs." they have raised a lot of money over the years for several different causes. I ask you to look around on this website before making such broad uneducated statements.
It amazes me how a simple question like can PJ ever tour like GD or Phish still some turns into a "but PJ is better" by some people on here, while I love PJ, I don't live or die by them, I listen to all kinds of music and am very open minded about music. I own over 2,000 LP's and have in my collection, rock, jazz, R&B, Mowtown, classical, Dixieland Jazz, Showtunes, Opera, I even own a few 78's. I saw Grateful Dead over 150 times and Phish over 20 and it was a WAY different scene than PJ, quite frankly I pray that the PJ never turns into that, it's cool just the way it is. I just don't get why some fans get so defensive about things.
I don't think any band could ever tour like the dead or phish again. even if phish were to reunite it wouldn't be the same. Sure, there are still communities and large fanbases for many bands, but high expenses, including ticket prices, it just doesn't seem like that environment could be recreated. People were able to tour with bands in the past by selling goods, etc. Now, every show I hear more and more about horror stories from cops/security in the parking lots. As a result only people with the time and money can tour, defeating the purpose of what touring greats like the dead or phish represented. When Phish reunities, and they will, expect ticket prices to be $75 dollars a show easy.
PJ: 2003 Mansfield: July 2 2004 Boston: Sept 28 & 29 2005 Montreal: Sept 15 2006 Boston: May 24 & 25 2008 Hartford: June 27, Mansfield: June 28, 2010 Boston: May 17 2013 Worcester: Oct 15, Hartford: Oct 25, 2016 Hampton: April 18, Raleigh: April 20 (cancelled), Columbia: April 21. Quebec: May 5. Boston (Fenway): August 7
Yes times they are a chang'n and I don't think PJ would ever want to tour like the GD or Phish. Back in 94 and 95 it didn't matter where they were (GD never followed Phish),it was getting harder for the fans to follow the bands around constantly when you couldn't get a bean burrito or piece of funky jewelery in the circus because of security(the happy police). Myself I love PJ just the way they are. Rock on boys!!!!!!
Peace,
________________________
Too many shows but never enough!
These guys are the fruit of the earth...
"There is a road, no simple highway, between the dawn and the dark of night, and if you go, no one may follow, that path is for your steps alone" Garcia
"No intelligent idea can gain general acceptance unless some stupidity is mixed in with it." Pessoa
"There is a road, no simple highway, between the dawn and the dark of night, and if you go, no one may follow, that path is for your steps alone" Garcia
well, i think that pretty much nails it.
Some of the comments on this thread are right on . . . but make no mistake as the old saying goes, "there is nothing like a Grateful Dead show!" I guess its now "was" . . . but I digress, keeping on topic, i have no clue about phish, so i will say that NO, Pj can't tour like the Dead, not even close, why? well b/c of all the reasons stated already . . .
1996: Hartford; 1998: Hartford, Mansfield I & II
2000: Saratoga, Mansfield I & II; 2003: West Palm, Tampa, Mansfield I & II & III; 2004: Boston I & II; 2005: Montreal; 2006: Albany, Hartford, Boston I & II, East Rutherford; 2007: Lolla
2008: Tampa, MSG I & II, Hartford, Mansfield I & II; 2009: Chicago I & II, Philly I, III & IV; 2010: Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford, Boston & MSG II.
Families seem to actually enjoy touring with them. At least from what I can see side stage this tour. Especially as the kids get older I think theyll want to be more involved.
You don't have teenage kids, do you?
I would rather have a balance of touring and new work than touring alone.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
i suppose they could. i wouldn't want them to though, for their well-being.
i love and respect these guys... they're older, they have families, they can't just be on the road all the time like that. it'd be detrimental i think. and as much as i *love* seeing them live, nothing is worth them risking their health and happiness.
making new music and touring like they're doing is just fine by me
i suppose they could. i wouldn't want them to though, for their well-being.
i love and respect these guys... they're older, they have families, they can't just be on the road all the time like that. it'd be detrimental i think. and as much as i *love* seeing them live, nothing is worth them risking their health and happiness.
making new music and touring like they're doing is just fine by me
EXACTLY.
the band as a whole just seems so damn HAPPY, and seem to have found their *balance* and i would not want to diminish that. i think we get plenty of live love, i've seen them a few times each year, for 6 consecutive years, and that's plenty! they don't need to tour themselves ragged to prove their devotion to their fans, it SHOWS in all they do and the choices they make. and for that, i wish them the best and believe they deserve to have as much of a 'real life' with family and friends, as they so desire. we all deserve that.
Comments
the dead went to egypt and maybe 300 people showed up...all existing deadhead trust fund babies from the US.
when pearl jam plays europe, they clean up...same with OZ.
if they played the middle east, bet your ass people would show up.
so the question really is....could those other bands tour like pearl jam does....and the answer is a resounding NO.
I don't know where to begin with your statement.
Same here, but I'll give it a shot.
First, the question was could PJ tour as much as the Dead and Phish, not could the Dead and Phish pull in the same numbers as PJ outside the US. On the latter half (a question no one asked), you're right - they can't. The biggest reason is that Jerry's dead and Phish aren't currently together.
Second, you're right - Phish played small clubs in Europe. So what - they fit in a Europe tour in addition to a very full US set of tours. The question asked was, can Pearl Jam do as many tour dates? The number of people at shows has no real connection to the number of shows you can book. So, yes, Pearl Jam could do that many shows - it's possible.
The bottom line, though, is that they don't. I'm sure there are many reasons. One of the tops is probably that touring like that is hard. It's one of the reasons Phish took the 00-03 hiatus - they needed some time off the road for many reasons, including spending time with their families.
So, relax, no one is disparaging Pearl Jam - we're all fans.
PS. I am hopeful that all indications point to Phish recording this winter and playing next summer. Man, do I miss those guys. But that's another subject entirely....
I agree.... been thinking about this all night. PJ would have to really plan it out, as far as setlists. The energy on stage is definitely at a different level. I think if they broke out the whole catalogue and actually sat a put some thought into it , it could happen.
It's also a different day an age as far as fans alot have grown up and have real jobs and could afford to travel with the band so I think they could do world wide stints and get many fans veen if it was in Antartica.
would they? no
I have been pretty happy with the touring schedule since 2003-caught them at least once every year since then and that is just perfect.
Ok well Phish they were a bit more out there for me to understand. But IMO you go around the world and show the dead's logo to people. They will say Jerry Garcia and the Grateful Dead most of the time.
Europe 72 tour it was alot of there friends and family members/girlfriends. But they did play for a decent amount of locals as well.
PJ is a band that can and do very well touring, one of the few. Why cause it's great music for a good amount of people that can and will travel to see them.
I enjoy these Dead/PJ chats that pop up now and then on here.
1990-75 shows
1991-123 shows
1992-147 shows
1993-112 shows
1994-126 shows
1995-82 shows
1996-71 shows
1997-79 shows
1998-68 shows
1999-68 shows
2000-57 shows
Before anyone gets all jumpy, I'm just providing the number of shows that Grateful Dead and Phish played over a 10 year period, not saying any band is better than PJ or PJ can't do this or that, I'm just providing stats nothing more nothing less.
4/5,6/9/2003, 9/1/05, 12/7/2005, 7/15,16,18/2006, 8/5/2007
6/24,25/08,6/27/08,6/28/08,6/30/08
9/21,22/2009, 10/4/2009
5/6,7,9/2010, 9/3/2011 9/4/2011, 11/15/2013,
11/16/2013, 12/8/2013, 10/5/2014, 10/12/2014,
4/23, 5/10, 5/12, 8/20, 8/22 2016,
8/8, 8/10, 8/18, 8/20 2018, 5/12, 5/13, 9/20 2022
my desert island disc.
It just aint summer without the big ole GD stadium parties. And you could count on the dead to be in your neck of the woods three times a year, for at least two shows each time-like clockwork
for me PJ absolutely filled the void left by Jerrys demise and ultimate passing.
the similarities:
The business model of the fan club
The devotion of the fans to the band (PJ fans are nuts, but dead heads are a WHOLE OTHER THING)
The devotion and respect PJ has for its music and the music of others-mixing up its sets, playing with other musicians etc...
The forgoing of commercial opportunities in favor of "doing their own thing"
But musically, they are on opposite ends of the spectrum.
I dont think PJ could tour as much as the Dead. It would kill them.
PJ over 50 shows and the years........
1991 - 97
1992 - 129
1993 - 58
1998 - 65
2000 - 75
2003 - 77
2006 - 80
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
I went to a lot of Dead shows and they were incredible and life changing but I always thought they were missing a huge opportunity by focussing on the hippie hang out zone. I wished they dealt more strongly with issues but they generally refused to take a stance on anything other than supporting some environmental orgs.
I always thought, "the world is going to shit and all you guys are doing is goofing around" That's great but that's why Pearl Jam is way better for me.
Pearl Jam is energizing, they make bold statements, get people thinking and striiring the shit up to try and make something better. They do not waste the opportunity.
Great music and musicianship aside, Pearl Jam are the shit disturbers I wished Grateful Dead would have done more of.
In terms of the touring - PJ fans follow them around because they are musicians and can play songs at will and change up sets. Just what GD did, which is why their scene evolved. PJ is definately heading in that direction and I don't think there is any going back unless they stop touring.
PJ is WAY BETTER.
So nowhere close to the Dead or Phish.
Except PJ still plays.
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
The Rex Foundation supported all kinds of charities so I think the GD did what they could, but without creating a frenzy...which is why the band hardly said a word on stage. I dont think you necessarily need to be as bold as PJ are about making some statements and certainly PJ(ev?) are perhaps more at fault(?) for making too much of some things...so there is a fine balance. I'm sure a lot of PJ fans wish the band would say less and sing more
The GD never really alienated their fans in the same way that EV/PJ sometimes do. When the GD "spoke" it was about things affecting all humans (climate change)and not just mostly politics...but who knows in today's charged up climate maybe the GD would have said more...certainly Bobby and the boys have made known who they are supporting in the upcoming election. Times have changed since 1995.
As far as PJ being "better" that's a tough one to prove to me, as it's based on one's personal opinion. Let me just say this...there will never ever be anyone like Garcia again. Kinda hard to describe what he had that made him so damn special, but, I suppose, it really comes down to heart&soul. I'm not saying no one in PJ has that, but certainly not to the extent that JG did...when JG sang and played those delicate notes it literally pierced your skin right to the bone.
No one I can think of today has that magic...but perhaps that's just me, the jaded fan, speaking out
Exactly, and the overall quality of shows would go way down. I saw alot of Dead shows in my day, some were stunning, some rank as some of the worst shows I have ever seen.....
The Rex Foundation helps a LOT of groups and are not just "supporting some environmental orgs." they have raised a lot of money over the years for several different causes. I ask you to look around on this website before making such broad uneducated statements.
http://www.rexfoundation.org/history.html
http://www.rexfoundation.org/history.html
It amazes me how a simple question like can PJ ever tour like GD or Phish still some turns into a "but PJ is better" by some people on here, while I love PJ, I don't live or die by them, I listen to all kinds of music and am very open minded about music. I own over 2,000 LP's and have in my collection, rock, jazz, R&B, Mowtown, classical, Dixieland Jazz, Showtunes, Opera, I even own a few 78's. I saw Grateful Dead over 150 times and Phish over 20 and it was a WAY different scene than PJ, quite frankly I pray that the PJ never turns into that, it's cool just the way it is. I just don't get why some fans get so defensive about things.
4/5,6/9/2003, 9/1/05, 12/7/2005, 7/15,16,18/2006, 8/5/2007
6/24,25/08,6/27/08,6/28/08,6/30/08
9/21,22/2009, 10/4/2009
5/6,7,9/2010, 9/3/2011 9/4/2011, 11/15/2013,
11/16/2013, 12/8/2013, 10/5/2014, 10/12/2014,
4/23, 5/10, 5/12, 8/20, 8/22 2016,
8/8, 8/10, 8/18, 8/20 2018, 5/12, 5/13, 9/20 2022
2003 Mansfield: July 2
2004 Boston: Sept 28 & 29
2005 Montreal: Sept 15
2006 Boston: May 24 & 25
2008 Hartford: June 27, Mansfield: June 28,
2010 Boston: May 17
2013 Worcester: Oct 15, Hartford: Oct 25,
2016 Hampton: April 18, Raleigh: April 20 (cancelled), Columbia: April 21. Quebec: May 5. Boston (Fenway): August 7
EV Solo: Boston 8/2/08, Boston 6/16/11
________________________
Too many shows but never enough!
These guys are the fruit of the earth...
"There is a road, no simple highway, between the dawn and the dark of night, and if you go, no one may follow, that path is for your steps alone" Garcia
well, i think that pretty much nails it.
Some of the comments on this thread are right on . . . but make no mistake as the old saying goes, "there is nothing like a Grateful Dead show!" I guess its now "was" . . . but I digress, keeping on topic, i have no clue about phish, so i will say that NO, Pj can't tour like the Dead, not even close, why? well b/c of all the reasons stated already . . .
2000: Saratoga, Mansfield I & II; 2003: West Palm, Tampa, Mansfield I & II & III; 2004: Boston I & II; 2005: Montreal; 2006: Albany, Hartford, Boston I & II, East Rutherford; 2007: Lolla
2008: Tampa, MSG I & II, Hartford, Mansfield I & II; 2009: Chicago I & II, Philly I, III & IV; 2010: Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford, Boston & MSG II.
You don't have teenage kids, do you?
I would rather have a balance of touring and new work than touring alone.
i love and respect these guys... they're older, they have families, they can't just be on the road all the time like that. it'd be detrimental i think. and as much as i *love* seeing them live, nothing is worth them risking their health and happiness.
making new music and touring like they're doing is just fine by me
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The Dead had all the same stuff going on at their peak.
I would even say they had too much going on. Glad PJ is able to take breaks. The dead should have but when they did it was too late.
BUT
i would never want pearl jam tours to turn into a fucking circus filled with drug addict freaks following them from town to town....fuck that
EXACTLY.
the band as a whole just seems so damn HAPPY, and seem to have found their *balance* and i would not want to diminish that. i think we get plenty of live love, i've seen them a few times each year, for 6 consecutive years, and that's plenty! they don't need to tour themselves ragged to prove their devotion to their fans, it SHOWS in all they do and the choices they make.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow