socialism

13

Comments

  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    Youre freedom is cut down from an Americans by having less disposable income. Money is freedom. More of your hard earned dollars go to the government to run socialism. Taxes duh.

    Gasoline cost me so freaking much more when I just went to Toronto. More stolen disposable income. What are gas prices like in Europe? I will give you Canada is my favorite socialist nation, but still, its no USA.[/quote]

    actually, depends are how you look at things. canadians have less debt than americans, less bankrupt people. gas prices in canada are not that much higher than in american it just we use litres not gallons so it might look higher. (not saying it is not higher but not that much)[/quote]

    A gallon is a lot larger than a litre. It actually looks like 3 times less than Americas gas until you see how many freaking litres a gas tank holds. It costs me 30 dollars to fill up here and just over 50 to fill up in Canada. Approaching twice as much.[/quote]

    do the conversion. you will see that we pay maybe 25 cents more than you do per gallon.
  • SongburstSongburst Posts: 1,195
    edited August 2009
    Mortality wrote:
    Are you seriously going to say the telephone isnt American. It doesnt matter where a person is born, it matters what nation gives them the means to carry out their dream. America, by far, is the place someone wants come if they are going to invent something; from a product to a business. It is undeniable.

    Wasnt Insulin invented before your country went to socialized medicine??
    I'd buy that the telephone is American -- it is claimed to be a Canadian invention in lots of engineering texts though.

    Insulin was developed before socialized medicine. It was immediately licensed to the US Government to get it mass-produced and circulated as quickly as possible. I guess they should have held onto it and exploited the discovery for billions though because that would have been the profitable thing to do.
    Post edited by Songburst on
    1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
  • Socialism is only working in those countries because the people believe it is working. In reality, the people governing the socialist countries are winning and the working class is losing. They have to pay extremely high taxes and dont have all the freedoms Americans have. They are content, but their citizens arent inventing the automobile, the airplane, the computer, ELECTRICITY. Those are purely American inventions, come on, think it through.

    Anyone from Sweeden (or any other Socialist Euro) want to take time away from being shackled to your government and being too stupid to invent anything of purpose to respond to this guy...

    :roll:[/quote]

    I lived in Denmark and it was a-okay. An absolutely model society and a wonderful, wonderful place to live.
    I pitched up, got a tax number all the stuff within a couple of days and was ready to go (all the paperwork literally took half an hour in the office). They had buses on time, a library full of free internet terminals long before the idea even hit other places I've been to, great healthcare, fair wages, great education, a 5 day a week free course in Danish language that I could attend to university entance proficiency level... plus great booze and loose women.

    Seriously, about the inventions.....! Is that for real? America invented electricity? :lol: Was that just before the Greeks worked it out? :roll:
    Europe and America have invented and developed the world between them, you can't claim that socialism or otherwise had any bearing on whether the TV comes from the UK, radio from Italy and contact lenses from Czech Rep, can you? Advanced societies, regardless of their systems of power, will always invent and advance - usually, in the past, when war created the need.
    we're all going to the same place...
  • MortalityMortality Posts: 156
    Soooo are you just going to ignore the actual socialist saying that Obama's health care plan is nothing of the sort?

    Absolutely, because if he said that he is a moron. Not because I think Obamas plan is socialist, but because Obama has no plan. He is some random politician who has no idea how to run a medical business. There is a house bill which is definitely socialist, but no one knows what Obamas actual plan is, because he himself has no clue what his plan is.
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    also you have not mentioned that candians have less debt than americans. less people going bankrupt. how is the housing thing in american. is everyone homelss. there is a differences between having money and having credit.
  • MortalityMortality Posts: 156
    fife wrote:
    also you have not mentioned that candians have less debt than americans. less people going bankrupt. how is the housing thing in american. is everyone homelss. there is a differences between having money and having credit.

    No crap!! Why do you think we are in this mess??? Because of socialized programs that gave the poor people huge mortgages on houses way too expensive for them to afford. Because of socialized programs that gave large loans and credit cards to people who could never pay it back. When they couldnt pay, the entire system crashed.

    I lived in NYC for a year, and I have never seen as many homeless people as I have in Montreal. On their knees in banks begging for my money while im at the ATM.
  • I think we might be going off topic a bit here, arguing about if America or Canada is better at turning pints into gallons.

    Maybe some Canadians can tell us if the word 'socialism' is such a faux pas over there... does it have the same undertones as it does for a lot of Americans?
    we're all going to the same place...
  • MortalityMortality Posts: 156
    I think we might be going off topic a bit here, arguing about if America or Canada is better at turning pints into gallons.

    Maybe some Canadians can tell us if the word 'socialism' is such a faux pas over there... does it have the same undertones as it does for a lot of Americans?

    Its just insane to me that in 2009 socialism is still up for debate. It has been debunked! Marx was wrong, people have their own motives. Not everyone can be on the same page. Even if they are for a day, a year, 100 years, eventually individual freedom overpowers it. You guys think on small time lines. The last big revolution of freedom was America breaking away from England. There is no more land to run to. The next big revolution will be when a large rebellious group, probably of Americans, are able to inhabit the moon or another planet, and start their own republic. Think outside the box guys. It is only a matter of time and technology.
  • Mortality wrote:
    fife wrote:
    also you have not mentioned that candians have less debt than americans. less people going bankrupt. how is the housing thing in american. is everyone homelss. there is a differences between having money and having credit.

    No crap!! Why do you think we are in this mess??? Because of socialized programs that gave the poor people huge mortgages on houses way too expensive for them to afford. Because of socialized programs that gave large loans and credit cards to people who could never pay it back. When they couldnt pay, the entire system crashed.

    I lived in NYC for a year, and I have never seen as many homeless people as I have in Montreal. On their knees in banks begging for my money while im at the ATM.

    Doesn't sound very socialist to me... the very idea of socialism here in Poland during the old days didn't allow loans and mortgages. You are suggesting that the promotion of private ownership equals socialism. I may be politically a little undereducated, which is why I started this thread, but I'm not so confused that I think that means socialism. Ask a few Poles here about mortgages, they are literally just getting into the idea now after decades of being completely ignorant to their existence. Even well-educated Poles of the older generations are still suspicious of them.
    we're all going to the same place...
  • MortalityMortality Posts: 156
    Mortality wrote:
    fife wrote:
    also you have not mentioned that candians have less debt than americans. less people going bankrupt. how is the housing thing in american. is everyone homelss. there is a differences between having money and having credit.

    No crap!! Why do you think we are in this mess??? Because of socialized programs that gave the poor people huge mortgages on houses way too expensive for them to afford. Because of socialized programs that gave large loans and credit cards to people who could never pay it back. When they couldnt pay, the entire system crashed.

    I lived in NYC for a year, and I have never seen as many homeless people as I have in Montreal. On their knees in banks begging for my money while im at the ATM.

    Doesn't sound very socialist to me... the very idea of socialism here in Poland during the old days didn't allow loans and mortgages. You are suggesting that the promotion of private ownership equals socialism. I may be politically a little undereducated, which is why I started this thread, but I'm not so confused that I think that means socialism. Ask a few Poles here about mortgages, they are literally just getting into the idea now after decades of being completely ignorant to their existence. Even well-educated Poles of the older generations are still suspicious of them.

    American politics are so far advanced that we have a non-socialist government with one party determined to add as many socialized programs into it as possible. We have become half baked and that is our only problem, we cant decide which side of the fence to fall on. One one hand, we fall on the socialist side and become like the rest of the world. On the other, we fall on the side of individual freedom and a republic, which would return us back on the path we took for 200 years before socialism appeared here.
  • Mortality wrote:

    No crap!! Why do you think we are in this mess??? Because of socialized programs that gave the poor people huge mortgages on houses way too expensive for them to afford. Because of socialized programs that gave large loans and credit cards to people who could never pay it back. When they couldnt pay, the entire system crashed.

    I lived in NYC for a year, and I have never seen as many homeless people as I have in Montreal. On their knees in banks begging for my money while im at the ATM.

    Doesn't sound very socialist to me... the very idea of socialism here in Poland during the old days didn't allow loans and mortgages. You are suggesting that the promotion of private ownership equals socialism. I may be politically a little undereducated, which is why I started this thread, but I'm not so confused that I think that means socialism. Ask a few Poles here about mortgages, they are literally just getting into the idea now after decades of being completely ignorant to their existence. Even well-educated Poles of the older generations are still suspicious of them.[/quote]

    American politics are so far advanced that we have a non-socialist government with one party determined to add as many socialized programs into it as possible. We have become half baked and that is our only problem, we cant decide which side of the fence to fall on. One one hand, we fall on the socialist side and become like the rest of the world. On the other, we fall on the side of individual freedom and a republic, which would return us back on the path we took for 200 years before socialism appeared here.[/quote]

    Those mortgages were still not socialist and that is exactly why I started the thread... because I read on here that everything bad in America is instantly labelled 'socialist' by some people whether it is or not. It's a panic button argument. I'm not a socialist, I just wonder why so many people label everything they don't like as socialist just because that is the easiest put down.

    By the way, I don't mean to be rude or unnecessarily polemic here, but I don't really think that 'American politics are so far advanced' compared to the rest of the world. We are all doing the best we can and some nations have been doing it for a very long time.
    we're all going to the same place...
  • MortalityMortality Posts: 156

    By the way, I don't mean to be rude or unnecessarily polemic here, but I don't really think that 'American politics are so far advanced' compared to the rest of the world. We are all doing the best we can and some nations have been doing it for a very long time.

    Dont get me wrong, advanced in a bad way lol. Advanced in a way that the public can not fully understand the entirety of what is going on. Simple is good when it comes to government. The sub-prime mortgage program wasnt a socialist program to help poor people get mortgages they couldnt afford? Im sorry, but I think you are mistaken. It sounded like a great idea, but it collapsed in a way everyone should have saw coming because it was stated all along. Give people mortgages they couldnt afford! :lol: How did they think it was going to end?
  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    In America, where I grew up, all the teachers, parents.....everybody, always say America is the best place on earth because of our "freedoms". Sadly this gets worked into the brain a little too much for some people and they become bat shit crazy patriots who think American way is the only way. (some in this thread ~cough~)

    Then you go out and realize many countries have much more freedom, dual citizenship, no double taxes, just as easy to start business (or easier), make money. etc. etc. Some in the US think only Americans can do this. Yet most Americans don't even have passports and don't know shit.
  • MortalityMortality Posts: 156
    edited August 2009
    .
    Post edited by Mortality on
  • MortalityMortality Posts: 156
    Smellyman wrote:
    In America, where I grew up, all the teachers, parents.....everybody, always say America is the best place on earth because of our "freedoms". Sadly this gets worked into the brain a little too much for some people and they become bat shit crazy patriots who think American way is the only way. (some in this thread ~cough~)

    Then you go out and realize many countries have much more freedom, dual citizenship, no double taxes, just as easy to start business (or easier), make money. etc. etc. Some in the US think only Americans can do this. Yet most Americans don't even have passports and don't know shit.

    LOL youre in Hong Kong spouting this nonsense? Half of that country is communist.

    You are really just making this all up. Teachers do nothing but bash America. We treated the natives bad, we treat the earth bad. Every kids movie makes American business the enemy. You are totally just making that up, so strange.
  • ledveddermanledvedderman Posts: 7,761
    Mortality wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:
    In America, where I grew up, all the teachers, parents.....everybody, always say America is the best place on earth because of our "freedoms". Sadly this gets worked into the brain a little too much for some people and they become bat shit crazy patriots who think American way is the only way. (some in this thread ~cough~)

    Then you go out and realize many countries have much more freedom, dual citizenship, no double taxes, just as easy to start business (or easier), make money. etc. etc. Some in the US think only Americans can do this. Yet most Americans don't even have passports and don't know shit.

    LOL youre in Hong Kong spouting this nonsense? Half of that country is communist.

    You are really just making this all up. Teachers do nothing but bash America. We treated the natives bad, we treat the earth bad. Every kids movie makes American business the enemy. You are totally just making that up, so strange.

    We treated the natives bad...True
    We treat the Earth bad...True

    Are you saying neither of these are true????

    I think if that's what you believe, you are the one making stuff up
  • MortalityMortality Posts: 156
    Mortality wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:
    In America, where I grew up, all the teachers, parents.....everybody, always say America is the best place on earth because of our "freedoms". Sadly this gets worked into the brain a little too much for some people and they become bat shit crazy patriots who think American way is the only way. (some in this thread ~cough~)

    Then you go out and realize many countries have much more freedom, dual citizenship, no double taxes, just as easy to start business (or easier), make money. etc. etc. Some in the US think only Americans can do this. Yet most Americans don't even have passports and don't know shit.

    LOL youre in Hong Kong spouting this nonsense? Half of that country is communist.

    You are really just making this all up. Teachers do nothing but bash America. We treated the natives bad, we treat the earth bad. Every kids movie makes American business the enemy. You are totally just making that up, so strange.

    We treated the natives bad...True
    We treat the Earth bad...True

    Are you saying neither of these are true????

    I think if that's what you believe, you are the one making stuff up

    What the hell are you talking about? I was calling that guy out for making things up. He said teachers bring us up to love America when the exact opposite is true.
  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    Mortality wrote:
    Mortality wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:
    In America, where I grew up, all the teachers, parents.....everybody, always say America is the best place on earth because of our "freedoms". Sadly this gets worked into the brain a little too much for some people and they become bat shit crazy patriots who think American way is the only way. (some in this thread ~cough~)

    Then you go out and realize many countries have much more freedom, dual citizenship, no double taxes, just as easy to start business (or easier), make money. etc. etc. Some in the US think only Americans can do this. Yet most Americans don't even have passports and don't know shit.

    LOL youre in Hong Kong spouting this nonsense? Half of that country is communist.

    You are really just making this all up. Teachers do nothing but bash America. We treated the natives bad, we treat the earth bad. Every kids movie makes American business the enemy. You are totally just making that up, so strange.

    What the hell are you talking about? I was calling that guy out for making things up. He said teachers bring us up to love America when the exact opposite is true.

    Hopefully that is true now and they teach more in reality. It certainly wasn't the case when I was growing up.

    You certainly are spouting all the talking points about teahcers bashing America though.

    Hong Kong is one of the biggest economies in the world. Lots of cash and very high quality of life. Explain why it is half communist please.....

    you need to get out more. Do you have a passport?
  • MortalityMortality Posts: 156
    Smellyman wrote:

    Hong Kong is one of the biggest economies in the world. Lots of cash and very high quality of life. Explain why it is half communist please.....

    you need to get out more. Do you have a passport?

    Hong Kong isnt communist, I said half of that country. China is communist. Yes I have a passport, I just went to the Toronto show. I go to Montreal all the time and I have been to Italy. Not only do teachers base in reality, they stress that America is the bad guys. Im only 23 so HS is pretty recent to me, and I know that I was brought up to hate America. I only recently began to love America when I snapped out of it and realized we are all spoiled rotten in this country. Yeah, you have to work hard, but you awarded well if you do.
  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    Mortality wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:

    Hong Kong is one of the biggest economies in the world. Lots of cash and very high quality of life. Explain why it is half communist please.....

    you need to get out more. Do you have a passport?

    Hong Kong isnt communist, I said half of that country. China is communist. Yes I have a passport, I just went to the Toronto show. I go to Montreal all the time and I have been to Italy. Not only do teachers base in reality, they stress that America is the bad guys. Im only 23 so HS is pretty recent to me, and I know that I was brought up to hate America. I only recently began to love America when I snapped out of it and realized we are all spoiled rotten in this country. Yeah, you have to work hard, but you awarded well if you do.

    did you snap out of it around the time you started to watch fox news.....
  • MortalityMortality Posts: 156
    Smellyman wrote:
    Mortality wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:

    Hong Kong is one of the biggest economies in the world. Lots of cash and very high quality of life. Explain why it is half communist please.....

    you need to get out more. Do you have a passport?

    Hong Kong isnt communist, I said half of that country. China is communist. Yes I have a passport, I just went to the Toronto show. I go to Montreal all the time and I have been to Italy. Not only do teachers base in reality, they stress that America is the bad guys. Im only 23 so HS is pretty recent to me, and I know that I was brought up to hate America. I only recently began to love America when I snapped out of it and realized we are all spoiled rotten in this country. Yeah, you have to work hard, but you awarded well if you do.

    did you snap out of it around the time you started to watch fox news.....

    HAHA good one. I have watched that, no more than any other channel though, and I can un-biasedly say that it is bad, but no worse than the liberal agenda stations. I dont associate with a party. I always seem to be arguing with everyone because everyone is on one side or the other. I wouldnt say Im in the middle, just on a different side for every issue.
  • Mortality wrote:

    The sub-prime mortgage program wasnt a socialist program to help poor people get mortgages they couldnt afford? Im sorry, but I think you are mistaken. It sounded like a great idea, but it collapsed in a way everyone should have saw coming because it was stated all along. Give people mortgages they couldnt afford! :lol: How did they think it was going to end?

    It was a terrible idea, agreed, but not a socialist one. There is a difference between schemes aimed at the lower end of the wealth scale and socialism. After Communism collapsed here in 1990 people were finally able to buy their own properties, there was a huge sale of state held assets, everything from the houses people lived in to the allotments they had as gardens. Fanny Mac and other private mega-lenders offering people mortgages as a road to ownership is nothing like socialism, it's the American dream.
    we're all going to the same place...
  • Mortality wrote:
    Did a Canadian invent the automobile, airplane, telephone, electricity, computer, or assembly line? DId a Canadian spaceship travel to outerspace? None of that matters though, as long as the people are content, thats all a socialist nation cares about.

    These posts always crack me up. As if they were all invented or discovered in the USA :lol:
  • IrishGuy wrote:
    Mortality wrote:
    Did a Canadian invent the automobile, airplane, telephone, electricity, computer, or assembly line? DId a Canadian spaceship travel to outerspace? None of that matters though, as long as the people are content, thats all a socialist nation cares about.

    These posts always crack me up. As if they were all invented or discovered in the USA :lol:

    These always crack me up, as if they werent.
  • Mortality wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:

    Hong Kong is one of the biggest economies in the world. Lots of cash and very high quality of life. Explain why it is half communist please.....

    you need to get out more. Do you have a passport?

    Hong Kong isnt communist, I said half of that country. China is communist. Yes I have a passport, I just went to the Toronto show. I go to Montreal all the time and I have been to Italy. Not only do teachers base in reality, they stress that America is the bad guys. Im only 23 so HS is pretty recent to me, and I know that I was brought up to hate America. I only recently began to love America when I snapped out of it and realized we are all spoiled rotten in this country. Yeah, you have to work hard, but you awarded well if you do.

    +1
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • Mortality wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:

    Hong Kong is one of the biggest economies in the world. Lots of cash and very high quality of life. Explain why it is half communist please.....

    you need to get out more. Do you have a passport?

    Hong Kong isnt communist, I said half of that country. China is communist. Yes I have a passport, I just went to the Toronto show. I go to Montreal all the time and I have been to Italy. Not only do teachers base in reality, they stress that America is the bad guys. Im only 23 so HS is pretty recent to me, and I know that I was brought up to hate America. I only recently began to love America when I snapped out of it and realized we are all spoiled rotten in this country. Yeah, you have to work hard, but you awarded well if you do.

    Were you all hating America when you took the pledge of allegiance at school in the mornings?
    we're all going to the same place...
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Mortality wrote:
    I love when perfectly viable points are brushed aside as talking points. They are talking points for a reason. Canadians pay higher taxes, period. Did it help them create anything? No it just made everyone content. Did a Canadian invent the automobile, airplane, telephone, electricity, computer, or assembly line? DId a Canadian spaceship travel to outerspace? None of that matters though, as long as the people are content, thats all a socialist nation cares about.

    A canadian DID invent the telephone and the CANADarm is one of the most significant developments in space history ... but why make this a pissing contest!?

    here is an innovation index:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... tion_Index

    yes - the US is second but your overall score is closer to Canada (6th) than it is to South Korea (which also has universal health care) ... look at the other countries on that list - Sweden is 3rd ...

    the american way promotes a prosperity gap that often leads to crime issues:

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... tal-crimes - guess who's number 1?
  • polaris_x wrote:
    Mortality wrote:
    I love when perfectly viable points are brushed aside as talking points. They are talking points for a reason. Canadians pay higher taxes, period. Did it help them create anything? No it just made everyone content. Did a Canadian invent the automobile, airplane, telephone, electricity, computer, or assembly line? DId a Canadian spaceship travel to outerspace? None of that matters though, as long as the people are content, thats all a socialist nation cares about.

    A canadian DID invent the telephone and the CANADarm is one of the most significant developments in space history ... but why make this a pissing contest!?

    here is an innovation index:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... tion_Index

    yes - the US is second but your overall score is closer to Canada (6th) than it is to South Korea (which also has universal health care) ... look at the other countries on that list - Sweden is 3rd ...

    the american way promotes a prosperity gap that often leads to crime issues:

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... tal-crimes - guess who's number 1?

    Alexander Graham Bell was born on March 3, 1847 in Edinburgh, Scotland. In 1870, Bell and his family moved to Canada.

    Antonio Meucci moved to Cuba then to America in his thirties and was an Italian, born and raised in Italy.

    Neither was Canadian or American. Niether ever claimed to be American or Canadian. You are both/all wrong. End of...

    Now, can we PLEASE stop just comparing Canada and America and get somewhere close to the topic?!
    we're all going to the same place...
  • Smellyman wrote:
    Do you have a passport?


    Such an elitist bullshit comment. Get over yourself. There are lots of people that will never have the means to travel outside their country.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Alexander Graham Bell was born on March 3, 1847 in Edinburgh, Scotland. In 1870, Bell and his family moved to Canada.

    Antonio Meucci moved to Cuba then to America in his thirties and was an Italian, born and raised in Italy.

    Neither was Canadian or American. Niether ever claimed to be American or Canadian. You are both/all wrong. End of...

    Now, can we PLEASE stop just comparing Canada and America and get somewhere close to the topic?!

    yeah - it definitely can be argued if bell was truly a canadian - but my primary point was that he's out to lunch in his beliefs ...
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