socialism

i shit and i stink

I'm European, so I always wonder why so many of the Americans here think socialism is such a heinous word - it's most often written on this forum in block capitals and the idea of anyone being a socialist is deplorable.

Surely it's better than anti-socialism, isn't it?

OffHeGoes29

Its not a bad thing, its just that it won't work here in America. Sure most Americans want all the benifts of a socialist government, but don't want to give anything in return. Just think if our taxes were at the same rates in some European countries, people would flip out here in the USA. Not to mention the manditory community service or military service that is required by some governments in Europe. Many Americans would have a hard time dealing with cleaning bed pans for two years in a hospital for practically no pay, or a manditory year in the military.

Europeans are just a better adopted culture for socialism. Most Europeans live modestly compaired to Americans, and it would be hard for the average slob to give up his large house, gas guzzling SUV, and half their pay to taxes. I like the way Europe does things, but that works for Europe, not here. There would be a fundimental change in the way we live here....and I don't ever see that coming....sadly.

catefrances

im a socialist. but im not american.

i shit and i stink

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Its not a bad thing, its just that it won't work here in America. Sure most Americans want all the benifts of a socialist government, but don't want to give anything in return. Just think if our taxes were at the same rates in some European countries, people would flip out here in the USA. Not to mention the manditory community service or military service that is required by some governments in Europe. Many Americans would have a hard time dealing with cleaning bed pans for two years in a hospital for practically no pay, or a manditory year in the military.

Europeans are just a better adopted culture for socialism. Most Europeans live modestly compaired to Americans, and it would be hard for the average slob to give up his large house, gas guzzling SUV, and half their pay to taxes. I like the way Europe does things, but that works for Europe, not here. There would be a fundimental change in the way we live here....and I don't ever see that coming....sadly.

Thanks, I didn't expect a straight answer to my question but that is one of the simplist and most eloquent replies I've seen more. You've cleared the matter up, great post!

OffHeGoes29

i shit and i stink wrote:

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Its not a bad thing, its just that it won't work here in America. Sure most Americans want all the benifts of a socialist government, but don't want to give anything in return. Just think if our taxes were at the same rates in some European countries, people would flip out here in the USA. Not to mention the manditory community service or military service that is required by some governments in Europe. Many Americans would have a hard time dealing with cleaning bed pans for two years in a hospital for practically no pay, or a manditory year in the military.

Europeans are just a better adopted culture for socialism. Most Europeans live modestly compaired to Americans, and it would be hard for the average slob to give up his large house, gas guzzling SUV, and half their pay to taxes. I like the way Europe does things, but that works for Europe, not here. There would be a fundimental change in the way we live here....and I don't ever see that coming....sadly.

Thanks, I didn't expect a straight answer to my question but that is one of the simplist and most eloquent replies I've seen more. You've cleared the matter up, great post!

No.....thank you. One more thing I forgot to add....

Around half of American population would say that they are conservitive or "right wing" or some what center right in their political views. Socialism to them strikes a memory of Communist Russia, which scares them to think that we would go to that (which is not anywhere near the truth). The bottom line is that most Americans don't want the government to control more of their money then they already do. Money = "freedom" so to speak, the freedom to buy the things Americans want. Americans for the most part don't look at whats good for America, they look at whats good for them as individuals. Not all Americans are like this, but there is a large group who do want that lifestyle, and they vote. You may not have to agree with it, but thats what makes this country unique, is the ability to have a financial "freedom" to do what you want. Sometimes it works and sometimes it hurts this country. Call it what you want but I don't see it changing.

Where in Europe are you from?

Songburst

Even the left-wing liberal Americans are still right of center in terms of a global poilitcal spectrum. If the Democrats ran with their platform in Canada, they would make our right-wing party seem like left-wing whackos.

DriftingByTheStorm

Well, i was going to post a new thread about this, but my will is worn, and this thread is as good a place as any:
Aaron Russo: Reflections and Warning, this was Aaron's last on camera interview before he died of cancer. Alex Jones has since re-released it with lots of updated commentary tagged in to help you see the big picture.

Aaron touches on "socialism" somewhere in this vast rambling information session.
I think the take away point on the subject is simply that "socialism" is little more than a buzzword for centrally controlled and planned (via central banking at the command of privately owned elitist wealth) government that uses a bunch of small worthless carrots to get the people to do what the billy club can't do.
Whatever is "offered" to you under the guise of "socialism" will be plundered back from you a thousand fold over through not only taxes, but loss of local sovereignty & autonomy, as well as loss of personal liberty \ individual freedom.

By way of elitist planned and controlled central banking collusion, the men and women at the very itty bitty top of the pyramid (the top 1%, essentially) have restricted (and continue to restrict) your personal liberties by simply denying you the right to live in a "free world" where will and ambition determine your fortune, and turning that world in to one where only those with the "right" political connections get the money, where the system is tilted wholly in favor of those at the top, and where the actual INITIAL FLOW OF CAPITAL is doled out in corporatist fashion only to the institutions with deep connections to "the establishment".

THAT is why "most" Americans are opposed to "socialism", because even though 100 years of social programming, disinformation, and ever tightening media ownership and official propaganda have weakened the American mind to an alarming level -- even though all of the "old timers" are now long gone -- even so, most Americans STILL retain a small ever-dimming collective memory of their countries true and rightful heritage of personal liberty and individual economic freedom.

"Socialism", by taking absolute control (albeit, in fashion most are too incompetent to understand) of the economy, deprives the individual of the freedom, not just to live their life as they please, but to simply even live in a WORLD where such a choice exists. If your entire social system is controlled from the top down, no one needs to put a gun to your head or exert brute militaristic force, you are already controlled and "enslaved", since the very fabric of the world you live in does not, by default, grant you "freedom", as it is being "engineered" right around you. THIS is what the creators of the Matrix were after. The machines were simply an analogue for corporatism itself. The Agents were simply the constructs of the system, the FBI, the IRS, the ATF, any authority which takes its orders on behalf of the corporatist institution itself is manifest in that movie as "agents".

Anyhow.
GO WATCH THAT INTERVIEW WITH AARON, ALL OF YOU.
His words ring so true, it is a shame he never got to complete "his plans" (mentioned in the 8th video above), which (as i gleamed from asking AJ on air) were to actually make a Hollywood movie about the Federal Reserve.

Unfortunately for humanity, Aaron never did recover from his cancer, and he never even got past early pre-production (ie. no script). Sigh.

RIP aaron.
Fuck "socialism".

i shit and i stink

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Well, i was going to post a new thread about this, but my will is worn, and this thread is as good a place as any:
Aaron Russo: Reflections and Warning, this was Aaron's last on camera interview before he died of cancer. Alex Jones has since re-released it with lots of updated commentary tagged in to help you see the big picture.

Aaron touches on "socialism" somewhere in this vast rambling information session.
I think the take away point on the subject is simply that "socialism" is little more than a buzzword for centrally controlled and planned (via central banking at the command of privately owned elitist wealth) government that uses a bunch of small worthless carrots to get the people to do what the billy club can't do.
Whatever is "offered" to you under the guise of "socialism" will be plundered back from you a thousand fold over through not only taxes, but loss of local sovereignty & autonomy, as well as loss of personal liberty \ individual freedom.

By way of elitist planned and controlled central banking collusion, the men and women at the very itty bitty top of the pyramid (the top 1%, essentially) have restricted (and continue to restrict) your personal liberties by simply denying you the right to live in a "free world" where will and ambition determine your fortune, and turning that world in to one where only those with the "right" political connections get the money, where the system is tilted wholly in favor of those at the top, and where the actual INITIAL FLOW OF CAPITAL is doled out in corporatist fashion only to the institutions with deep connections to "the establishment".

THAT is why "most" Americans are opposed to "socialism", because even though 100 years of social programming, disinformation, and ever tightening media ownership and official propaganda have weakened the American mind to an alarming level -- even though all of the "old timers" are now long gone -- even so, most Americans STILL retain a small ever-dimming collective memory of their countries true and rightful heritage of personal liberty and individual economic freedom.

"Socialism", by taking absolute control (albeit, in fashion most are too incompetent to understand) of the economy, deprives the individual of the freedom, not just to live their life as they please, but to simply even live in a WORLD where such a choice exists. If your entire social system is controlled from the top down, no one needs to put a gun to your head or exert brute militaristic force, you are already controlled and "enslaved", since the very fabric of the world you live in does not, by default, grant you "freedom", as it is being "engineered" right around you. THIS is what the creators of the Matrix were after. The machines were simply an analogue for corporatism itself. The Agents were simply the constructs of the system, the FBI, the IRS, the ATF, any authority which takes its orders on behalf of the corporatist institution itself is manifest in that movie as "agents".

Anyhow.
GO WATCH THAT INTERVIEW WITH AARON, ALL OF YOU.
His words ring so true, it is a shame he never got to complete "his plans" (mentioned in the 8th video above), which (as i gleamed from asking AJ on air) were to actually make a Hollywood movie about the Federal Reserve.

Unfortunately for humanity, Aaron never did recover from his cancer, and he never even got past early pre-production (ie. no script). Sigh.

RIP aaron.
Fuck "socialism".

There are just so many Americans who seem to equate 'socialism' with, as you said yourself, "taking absolute control". Do you really think that Europeans are under that yoke?

I don't think that socialism, in the extreme form most Americans refer to it, exists outside of very few countries and there is no fear that it could ever occur again in Europe or North America. I feel, from the things I read on here, that it is just a word Americans use to scare each other and when they want to make lazy and startling objections to things they don't agree with, such as the updating and reform of your health system. They want to make it better for society and everyone starts screaming socialism, the debate seems to become very polarised, either you are a capitalist (and therefore an evil money grabber) or a socialist (and therefore should be dragged up in from on MaCarthy). Of course, that view I see is represented in the media and on web forums like this, I accpet that there is much more reasoned debate going on elsewhere.

However, living in a country which was behind the iron curtain, I have to say that the shit that happened after WW2 was appauling and should never be repeated. Socialism, in that extreme, is evil and people are right to fear its consequences. But then most extremes should be feared...

I think that there is room for socialist thinking within central and right wing governments when we are talking about things that genuinely do good, such as NHS care, free kindergartens and creches for all, etc.

DriftingByTheStorm

i shit and i stink wrote:

There are just so many Americans who seem to equate 'socialism' with, as you said yourself, "taking absolute control". Do you really think that Europeans are under that yoke?

I don't think that socialism, in the extreme form most Americans refer to it, exists outside of very few countries and there is no fear that it could ever occur again in Europe or North America. I feel, from the things I read on here, that it is just a word Americans use to scare each other and when they want to make lazy and startling objections to things they don't agree with, such as the updating and reform of your health system. They want to make it better for society and everyone starts screaming socialism, the debate seems to become very polarised, either you are a capitalist (and therefore an evil money grabber) or a socialist (and therefore should be dragged up in from on MaCarthy). Of course, that view I see is represented in the media and on web forums like this, I accpet that there is much more reasoned debate going on elsewhere.

However, living in a country which was behind the iron curtain, I have to say that the shit that happened after WW2 was appauling and should never be repeated. Socialism, in that extreme, is evil and people are right to fear its consequences. But then most extremes should be feared...

I think that there is room for socialist thinking within central and right wing governments when we are talking about things that genuinely do good, such as NHS care, free kindergartens and creches for all, etc.

Well look, i don't have time for a super in depth response, and i don't want to speak for "most Americans", but i CAN speak as AN American, and this is what I, personally, am opposed to when i hear of ANYthing being kicked around in the media\government under the moniker of "socialism":

Look around at the heaping pile of shit that the US Government has brought upon its citizens, in the name of reform, welfare, and public good. LOOK HOW WELL THEY HAVE FUCKED THIS COUNTRY UP!

Welfare is a breeding ground for unskilled, unmotivated, broken homes -- broken by design, i may add, checks given out under the restriction that a man not be present in the house.

Social Security is ANYTHING BUT. Its broken. WE HAVE PAID BILLIONS AND TRILLIONS IN TO IT, YET IT REMAINS 100% UN FUNDED. Go figure.

The very fucking banking system itself is the epitome of "socialized". ANY time a major bank is in trouble, with VERY few exceptions, it is bailed out and we are told to shut up and like our socialism. YET THE BANKS REMAIN FUCKED.

Public schools are another "stunning" example of the greatness that arguably well intended (i argue NOT) programs gone to shit under the beneficent hand of government.

In fact, JUST ABOUT EVERY "SOCIALIST" PROGRAM IN AMERICA THAT I CAN THINK OF SUCKS A BIG FAT ONE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT. Am i saying NO ONE is benefiting from them? HELL NO. Of COURSE SOMEone benefits, you have to throw a few hand outs to the masses to keep them quiet.

But, ON THE WHOLE, the inherent inequity of these programs, the debt they create, the wealth transfers necessary to sustain them, and the government manipulation required to make them "work" IS BLATANTLY HARMFUL TO THE OVERALL QUALITY OF LIFE IN AMERICA.

When you start trying to talk to an American about INCREASING the amount of "socialism" in their country, they are quite likely to think about all the things that the government here ALREADY FUCKS UP on a routine and astronomically profound basis.

And don't tell me it is just because the programs are "poorly funded". What a hog wash. If there is one thing Obama HAS done good for this country, it should be that he has shown America how truly absurd our "budgets" are, and that they are used ONLY as a measure of social engineering \ control system for putting in to place ELITE APPROVED regimes for the United States. What THEY want funded, they fund. If it is unfunded, you can bet your ass it is likely INTENTIONAL. Why do i say Obama has proved that to us? Because he just doubled the fucking deficit and debt in a matter of months. You had all these bloody liberals screaming that Bush was running the country broke (AND HE WAS!) and yet their "Savior" comes along and DOUBLES DOWN!
If that doesn't show you that there is ALWAYS MONEY for what THEY WANT ... and what they want is a broken USA that must beg for funds and forgiveness, and a super wealthy elite owned banking system that is just happy to give the US that money, AT A PRICE (oh and how)!

So. Before anyone starts asking to heap more bullshit on the pile, saying "we just need to fix our priorities, and it will all work out", ask our self: why does Social Security remain completely unfunded and in jeopardy of bankrupting the entire country? Why are ALL the social programs largely fucked? Because all the government is EVER going to give you is a half rotted carrot dangling just out of reach. Their promises aren't meant to be fulfilled (hasn't Obama shown you all THAT yet !??!) they are just meant to get you to say "okay, sounds like a deal", only for you to find out some time later (or never, as some of this board proves repeatedly) that you have been utterly conned.

And again,
one of THE primary aims of all of this "socialist" chatter has NOTHING to do with these stupid health care "reforms", it is just yet another pretext to move farther and farther away from our LEGITIMATE sovereign Constitutional Republic and in to a Neo-Feudalistic Plutocratic Corporatist World "Socialist" Government that is run exclusively by the elite of the elite, vis a vis their self-owned globalized central banking system.

I realize that you all in Europe may be too busy eating your peanuts off the ground, peanuts that they toss down at your dirty streets from their mansions above, to realize that it is a sick sham, but i assure you it is. Just because your masters give you pretty little uniforms, with nice little accoutrement etc., and even call you by your first name, does NOT mean you aren't still a servant.

I am starting to realize the difference between Europe and America (and i suspect this is largely to do with Europe simply being thankful for being alive after WWII) is that Europe is already in the state of "the final revolution" that Aldous Huxley talked about in Gravity of Light. While Europe, through circumstance, and a healthy deal of manipulation (ya'll were attacked first, the plan for the EU was made first, a LONG time ago) has ALREADY GROWN TO NOT MIND (IN DEED, TO ENJOY) ITS NEW FORM OF SLAVERY, while many in the USA (thanks to a once celebrated heritage of liberty attained through violence at heavy price) ARE STILL QUITE SKEPTICAL and are able to see the correlation between new plans by the establishment increasing in number as proportionally related to their liberties and quality of life decreasing in inverse.

Its not too hard for Americans to see that for every new deal we have been cut, our country has been slowly sinking further and further in to a shit hole, all but yet sacrificed to the alter of world government. Perhaps Europeans -- having LONG had their world fucked up and turned to shit during "those wars" -- simply do not have the "luxury" of this perspective -- that is to say, the ability to see the United States slipping further and further down an irrecoverable hole, and left grasping for the TRUE reasons why this is happening.

I think many Americans ARE starting to piece together those reasons, and THAT is probably why ya'll in Europe are so confused about our animosity towards "socialism", which many here probably RIGHTLY view as just the next big "ism" to be beaten relentlessly over our head, in order to bash out any remaining patriotic sentimentality we may have had to our once glorious American heritage. I bet if you grew up as an American, you probably wouldn't like it either.



damn, i said i didn't have time for an involved response.
lol.

WaveCameCrashin

Right on Drifty.... :idea:

Mortality

Drifting has it right folks.

lukin2006

Songburst wrote:

Even the left-wing liberal Americans are still right of center in terms of a global poilitcal spectrum. If the Democrats ran with their platform in Canada, they would make our right-wing party seem like left-wing whackos.

LOL, never a truer statement.

Smellyman

borrowed from another forum, but I thought was pretty funny.


This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by the electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food and taking drugs which had been determined as safe by the food and drug administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by local, state and federal departments of transportation, stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issued by the federal reserve bank. On the way out the door, I deposited mail I had to be send out via the US postal service, and drop the kids off at the public school.

After work, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to a house that has not burned down in my absence because the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it's valuables thanks to the local police department.

i shit and i stink

So, basically, we're all enjoying being mind slaves in Europe and the world would be much better without any lower classes at all, as they suck everyone elses hard earnt cash away. Nice.

Meanwhile, it sounds like the US government is systematically using social projects to oppress, deceive and get rich. Also nice.

Personally, I've lived in 4 different European countries and Poland is by far the worst as people don't realise how much better things could be. A lot of stuff that should be private and should be better is just accepted as being bad because, maybe you are right Drifting, there is an acceptance of such things because people are glad just to be here and have any freedom at all, even if it is restricted.

England is in a bad state socially but has great health care and so on. The Czech Rep was a nice little place.

Denmark, indeed all of Scandinavia, has a great standard of living, very few lower classes, wonderful education and extremely high taxes.

VINNY GOOMBA

I like what Drifting has to say.

But in direct response to the OP, "socialism" is simply not legal here in America, for one-- at least, not at a federal level. We are a constitutional republic which is supposed to support individual liberty and self-determination, where we are best governed at state, and even better, local levels.

i shit and i stink

By the way, can I just say, I'm not on the 'left'. When you look at the alternative governments available her ein Poland, I think most people just feel 'left out'.

I posted this topic because I wanted to learn a little about why the mention of the very word 'socialism' stirs up such emotions with Americans and some of the responses have really opened my mind up to a lot of stuff I wasn't aware of or didn't really understand. Thanks, it's good to understand how you all think about this stuff.

VINNY GOOMBA

You think it's funny, I think it's HILLARIOUS:

Smellyman wrote:

borrowed from another forum, but I thought was pretty funny.


This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by the electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy (These aren't the guys who subsidize coal and oil making them appear to be cheaper and more efficient than they really are thus stunting the creation of clean, green energy, are they?). I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility (Except for the chlorine, the flouride, and other carcinogenic chemicals in the water supply, BUT ARE TOTALLY SAFE, RIGHT?) After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels (Ahh Censorship, remember that first amendment? It was good while it lasted. Censorship only ensures that you are getting SOMEONE's paid-for perspective, and hardly protects you from anything. Why can't we weed out the messages we don't like on our own by ignoring them, instead of giving them center stage through censorship?) to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed (Because my weather man ALMOST gets it right 40% of the time, and I'm better off predicting the weather from flipping coins and Tarot Cards), built and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration (Which I believe is privately owned, but highly government funded, and they NEVER waste any of our money on pointless research). I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food (who has granted unhealthy genetically modified food a virtual monopoly over the entire food market, and has put small farms out of business by determining that their own state and local governments regulations for growing food just aren't good enough) and taking drugs which had been determined as safe by the food and drug administration (Except for all of the autism that has recently developed out of nowhere, probably due to excessive MERCURY in the vaccines, Cancer on the rise, pushing drugs that treat the symptoms rather than finding the cure, and pushing drugs whose side effects are EXACTLY the condition that the drug is aiming to cure.. Why would they be so dishonest? Could it be that they are PAID to make the decisions that they do to favor their friends in big pharma companies? NEVER! The all-powerful government is GOOD! It really is! One can hope, right?)

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory (Because you never know when everyone in the world's wristwatches, cell phones, computers, might just stop working simultaneously), I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by local, state and federal departments of transportation, stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level (Define quality?) determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issued by the federal reserve bank (Which used to be as good as gold, but now isn't worth the paper it's printed on, and has lost 97% of its value since the creation of the Federal Reserve Bank, who also collects INTEREST on the debt (money) that they issue us.). On the way out the door, I deposited mail I had to be send out via the US postal service (How much money do we spend keeping this afloat, since stamps DO NOT cover its cost to run, and is paid for by taxes elsewhere? Another shining example of how FALSELY cheap it is to run a government agency-- although, I'm not against the Post Office in general, I do believe that there should be competitive private companies allowed to compete-- No, UPS, DHL, and Federal Express are NOT the same animal., and drop the kids off at the public school (No child left behind? How about Field Day-- the best day ever in elementary school? Remember when there were winners and losers? Actual competition? Failure is no longer an option anywhere, whether you're a student or a bank-- unfortunately, failure is inevitable, and because we do NOT allow failure, the entire system is doomed to fail.)

After work, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads (What if private businesses were allowed to competitively bid on roadwork, would it be done more effectively? Wouldn't their be greater incevitive for these companies to complete their projects quicker as time is money?), to a house that has not burned down in my absence because the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection (LOCAL! Now you're onto something!), and which has not been plundered of all it's valuables thanks to the local police department. (The police department is in charge of the expenditures of other local agencies? That's news to me-- Can't remember the last time a police department raided the town hall they make their offices, or busted the fire department for excessive spending. I also wish our police would hold their ground and stay LOCAL instead of taking orders from The Department of Homeland Security, so they'd focus more on protecting and serving rather than patronizing us and ignoring our rights, special thanks to the Patriot Act.

i shit and i stink

and drop the kids off at the public school (No child left behind? How about Field Day-- the best day ever in elementary school? Remember when there were winners and losers? Actual competition? Failure is no longer an option anywhere, whether you're a student or a bank-- unfortunately, failure is inevitable, and because we do NOT allow failure, the entire system is doomed to fail.)

I like the non-competitive idea, it's aimed at getting more 'underachieving' (ie- dangerously inactive/ obese) children into sports. In England the government has made swimming free for all under 16s and my little brother and his friends are not doing much more sport of the back of it. He has also joined a government scheme which gets him playign badminton for free.

The problem with private sports clubs in the UK is the subs kids have to pay each week. Football costs kids about 3 quid a week, plus a little here and there out of mum's pocket for drinks and stuff. So, call it a fiver a week and that is a lot of money to some people (regardless or not of what they would otherwise spend/ waste it on).

Also, some kids start, realise they are not the best and soon give up to goa dn sit on the sofa. National schemes giving kids free sport thrive upon the fact that all kids are involved and that they are not competitive and exclusive.

polaris_x

just because a gov't can't administer the programs properly doesn't mean "socialism" doesn't work ...

i shit and i stink

polaris_x wrote:

just because a gov't can't administer the programs properly doesn't mean "socialism" doesn't work ...

Good point, that is kind of the feeling I got from the longer mail from Drifting, it sounded like the US gov't just wasn't following through on some stuff that was all solid in theory. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

VINNY GOOMBA

i shit and i stink wrote:

and drop the kids off at the public school (No child left behind? How about Field Day-- the best day ever in elementary school? Remember when there were winners and losers? Actual competition? Failure is no longer an option anywhere, whether you're a student or a bank-- unfortunately, failure is inevitable, and because we do NOT allow failure, the entire system is doomed to fail.)

I like the non-competitive idea, it's aimed at getting more 'underachieving' (ie- dangerously inactive/ obese) children into sports. In England the government has made swimming free for all under 16s and my little brother and his friends are not doing much more sport of the back of it. He has also joined a government scheme which gets him playign badminton for free.

The problem with private sports clubs in the UK is the subs kids have to pay each week. Football costs kids about 3 quid a week, plus a little here and there out of mum's pocket for drinks and stuff. So, call it a fiver a week and that is a lot of money to some people (regardless or not of what they would otherwise spend/ waste it on).

Also, some kids start, realise they are not the best and soon give up to goa dn sit on the sofa. National schemes giving kids free sport thrive upon the fact that all kids are involved and that they are not competitive and exclusive.

Sports aren't for everyone. I don't think anyone should be forced to COMPETE in field day. Kids have phys. ed class all year round, to decide whether or not they like sports as well. If kids don't want to run on Field Day and be part of a team that competes to win, they shouldn't have to. But for the kids that do want to do it, let them. My point is, let everyone have their choice. In the end, that's my biggest beef with large, centralized government. It completely eliminates choice in EVERYTHING, and therefore creates monopoly and breeds inefficiency. It's authoritarian, the complete opposite of personal, individual liberty.

If people want the government to provide all of their services for them, that's fine by me. Do it in your own communities, not at a national level-- that way, everyone gets to have their cake, AND YES, EVEN EAT IT TOO! Man, I hate that expression.