Question for the Ladies

decides2dream

Drowned Out wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

um, no.
you could meet ANYwhere, have an actual conversation with the woman...and then ask her out. perfectly normal. walking up to a stranger, never even so much as exchanging a hello ever before and saying hi...want to go on a date? yea....sorry...weird. so sure, go to a party, go to a bar, chat with a woman on a long long at the market, see someone in starbucks and strike up a conversation...THEN ask for a date. i don't think that's odd at all. and being distrustful? eh, with good reason i think. actually, i am a fairly trusting individual, but yes...i am not an idiot either. it's called being cautious. it's good to exchange a few words, etc....get a vibe from someone, rather than simply getting asked on a date cold. i don't care what you look like, how well you dress or how great a smile you have (and that is ALL you can really get from seeing someone and not having any convo whatsoever) to simply walk up and say, want to go for dinner? yes.....creepy. i actually like to get some feeling for someone first. hell, even in a just friends arrangement, like to actully have a convo with you before i decide to invest some time with you. sheesh.

ok, ya...weird to just ask someone out without a conversation...but what is an acceptable length of convo then? 5 minutes? half an hour? what's the cut off? Are you going to actually talk to the person for that long, or get creeped out that a stranger is trying to have a conversation?
In a situation like the OP's 'friend"....is it going to be acceptable to walk into this salon and try to chat her up for long enough to not be deemed a creep? I think he's probably going to be painted that way before he opens his mouth...simply because he's attracted to her? that's kinda unfair. but hey, whatever....
I'm too shy to approach strangers anyway, regardless of setting...I just think it's a joke that women look down on a guy for being attracted to them...which is basically what this is boils down to. There is no basis to call a person creepy just for asking you out.

that's it. can't say what is 'an acceptible amount of conversation' as it would entirely be dependent on the circumstances imo.


i think this:

ZiggyStar wrote:

The following would work on me:

He should take a flower in to her with his mobile number attached to it (not a whole bunch -- seems too overboard -- just a nice single flower or a few flowers maybe) and say that he's seen her around and a few friends are meeting up at the pub and she should grab a few friends and meet them there.

If she's keen, she'll go....or if she really can't go due to other commitments but is interested, she'll phone/text and try to arrange a different night to meet.

is a workable solution.

point is, in the OP, it was a generalized question, thus what most of us reacted to....not the specifics of his cousin's situation.


asking a total stranger out on a date, point blank, with NO convo at all...whether 5-10 minutes or whatever = bizarre to me. i have had some really great convos with random strangers on very long queues, on trains, at parties, etc. if i were single and there were any interest exhibited, sure....i'd probably accept an invitation. of course, i would meet said person in a public place, have my own transport, etc. but i also would've had at least a small window of time to get even the most general of impressions.

you accuse women here of judging too harshly. i say hardly given the vague scenario in the OP. it's merely being cautious....and even you agree here that it would be 'weird'....doesn't make us "tight asses"...it makes us sensible.

sweet adeline

i just wanna do something special for all the ladies in the world...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFjrbmj0CUc

the wolf

decides2dream wrote:

i think this:

ZiggyStar wrote:

The following would work on me:

He should take a flower in to her with his mobile number attached to it (not a whole bunch -- seems too overboard -- just a nice single flower or a few flowers maybe) and say that he's seen her around and a few friends are meeting up at the pub and she should grab a few friends and meet them there.

If she's keen, she'll go....or if she really can't go due to other commitments but is interested, she'll phone/text and try to arrange a different night to meet.

is a workable solution.

me, as a guy would feel a bit creepy doing this. sending a flower and note with my number is way to stalkerish to me. its got the whole " i know what you look like and where you work but you dont know me" vibe to it. at least if i walk up to her she at least can see me.

Drowned Out

decides2dream wrote:

that's it. can't say what is 'an acceptible amount of conversation' as it would entirely be dependent on the circumstances imo.


i think this:

ZiggyStar wrote:

The following would work on me:

He should take a flower in to her with his mobile number attached to it (not a whole bunch -- seems too overboard -- just a nice single flower or a few flowers maybe) and say that he's seen her around and a few friends are meeting up at the pub and she should grab a few friends and meet them there.

If she's keen, she'll go....or if she really can't go due to other commitments but is interested, she'll phone/text and try to arrange a different night to meet.

is a workable solution.

point is, in the OP, it was a generalized question, thus what most of us reacted to....not the specifics of his cousin's situation.


asking a total stranger out on a date, point blank, with NO convo at all...whether 5-10 minutes or whatever = bizarre to me. i have had some really great convos with random strangers on very long queues, on trains, at parties, etc. if i were single and there were any interest exhibited, sure....i'd probably accept an invitation. of course, i would meet said person in a public place, have my own transport, etc. but i also would've had at least a small window of time to get even the most general of impressions.

you accuse women here of judging too harshly. i say hardly given the vague scenario in the OP. it's merely being cautious....and even you agree here that it would be 'weird'....doesn't make us "tight asses"...it makes us sensible.

well, c'mon....as if the guy is going to walk up and say 'will you go out with me' without trying to start SOME kind of conversation....The few specifics of the OP’s situation that we did get make it obvious that this guy is not going to have much time to talk to the girl…and you're admitting that 5-10 minutes would work if you were interested....are we splittign hairs then?

I found it tight-assed for someone to be saying ‘you’re mentally unstable’ or ‘you’re on drugs’ because they were approached. Maybe I shouldn’t have generalized about the women in this thread; I didn’t want to seem to be attacking Ms.Haiku (not sure why)…but still – women throw the ‘creep’ word around the same way men throw ‘slut’ (or tight ass? )around – as a blanket dismissal of people they don’t know – from opposite ends of the courtship spectrum.

Drowned Out

the wolf wrote:

me, as a guy would feel a bit creepy doing this. sending a flower and note with my number is way to stalkerish to me. its got the whole " i know what you look like and where you work but you dont know me" vibe to it. at least if i walk up to her she at least can see me.

I thought the same thing. seems WAY overboard for someone you don't know at all....how is that better than asking for a phone number or a coffee? I'll never get women

decides2dream

Drowned Out wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

point is, in the OP, it was a generalized question, thus what most of us reacted to....not the specifics of his cousin's situation.


asking a total stranger out on a date, point blank, with NO convo at all...whether 5-10 minutes or whatever = bizarre to me. i have had some really great convos with random strangers on very long queues, on trains, at parties, etc. if i were single and there were any interest exhibited, sure....i'd probably accept an invitation. of course, i would meet said person in a public place, have my own transport, etc. but i also would've had at least a small window of time to get even the most general of impressions.

you accuse women here of judging too harshly. i say hardly given the vague scenario in the OP. it's merely being cautious....and even you agree here that it would be 'weird'....doesn't make us "tight asses"...it makes us sensible.

well, c'mon....as if the guy is going to walk up and say 'will you go out with me' without trying to start SOME kind of conversation....The few specifics of the OP’s situation that we did get make it obvious that this guy is not going to have much time to talk to the girl…and you're admitting that 5-10 minutes would work if you were interested....are we splittign hairs then?

I found it tight-assed for someone to be saying ‘you’re mentally unstable’ or ‘you’re on drugs’ because they were approached. Maybe I shouldn’t have generalized about the women in this thread; I didn’t want to seem to be attacking Ms.Haiku (not sure why)…but still – women throw the ‘creep’ word around the same way men throw ‘slut’ (or tight ass? )around – as a blanket dismissal of people they don’t know – from opposite ends of the courtship spectrum.

btw - i saw no one say "creep".....they said "creepy"....what's the difference? labelling the behavior, not the person. i could think someone looks normal/nice enough, but i would still think it creepy if i never laid eyes on him before, never said as much as hello, and he just out cold asks me on a date.


as to ziggy's suggestion, the only reason i say it might be a workable solution is simply b/c apparently he can't seem to find any excuse to approach the girl in question. would be great if he could go in and make an appointment, but if that's not possible, it IS difficult to walk in and just ask her out, or approach her at work, going into/out of work, etc. see it from the girls' possible viewpoint too. as scb mentioned earlier, he knows where she works. she doesn't know him at ALL. that could be very disconcerting for her. so something a wee bit sweet/sappy, that kinda suggests a 'nice guy'...might work. it might not either. but just walking in and asking her out, idk, seems odd. again, who knows what THIS girl would choose...but the OP asked "ladies, what would you think?"...so all we can do is offer our opinions. if he actually started the thread with his cousin's actual dilemma, i am sure he would've gotten much more constructive/helpful advice from the get-go. he chose not to, and he got appropriate responses to the very vague idea. i did in fact say yes, it would be flattering...but still also creepy.


so yes, guess we are splitting hairs, mostly b/c you came on the attack. reading the posts in context of the thread, and/or in context of what posts they quoted/responded to.....there's no 'tight-ass' BS in em. as i said, it is caution. as a female, even an independent and gregarious female....most of us know and appreciate caution. i think most of us, male and female alike....take severely agressive behavior from an absolute stranger as a wee bit creepy. doesn't mean we think the person is a creep, but we don't know the person to even have an opinion yet, and that's the whole point!


and how it is 'better' that asking for a # or a coffee? simple. you are not fully putting her on the spot. you are making a sweet gesture, and giving her YOUR #, and also a possible time/place to meet, with friends. seems wise really, for the inviter and the invitee. if she's not interested, she just won't call....but perhaps she will be. put on the spot, she might just outright say no. but sure, maybe you just won't ever get women. :roll: seriously, the OP asked WOMEN, and here was a perfect chance for you to 'gain understanding' to help you 'get women'...and yet you utterly dismiss our pov/thoughts....as tight-assed, and incomprehensible. having time to think such an invitation from an utter stranger over may put a girl more at ease, and possibly more apt to accept the invitation. that's all. also, simply skipping the flower but saying/doing all the same actions, also good. the flower was just an ice-breaker....not a deal-breaker. :P

the wolf

Drowned Out wrote:

the wolf wrote:

me, as a guy would feel a bit creepy doing this. sending a flower and note with my number is way to stalkerish to me. its got the whole " i know what you look like and where you work but you dont know me" vibe to it. at least if i walk up to her she at least can see me.

I thought the same thing. seems WAY overboard for someone you don't know at all....how is that better than asking for a phone number or a coffee? I'll never get women

i think there is no "correct" way of doing things with the gals. we lose no matter what

decides2dream

the wolf wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

the wolf wrote:

me, as a guy would feel a bit creepy doing this. sending a flower and note with my number is way to stalkerish to me. its got the whole " i know what you look like and where you work but you dont know me" vibe to it. at least if i walk up to her she at least can see me.

I thought the same thing. seems WAY overboard for someone you don't know at all....how is that better than asking for a phone number or a coffee? I'll never get women

i think there is no "correct" way of doing things with the gals. we lose no matter what

of course, b/c even if you 'get the girl'....you lose of course if you end up marrying her, right? poor guys.....
there is no one right way....just whatever works....and that will be different for everyone and every situation.
who knows, maybe this girl will love being appoached by an utterly random stragner while she is at work, accept his invitation in 2.3 seconds, go on their date, fall madly in love and we'll reading about their marriage, children and subsequent divorce in 5 years! who knows?

_

Drowned Out wrote:

:roll:
Holy. People are WAY too suspicious of one another these days. Yes, there are a lot of weirdos out there…but is it really such a horrible thing to be attracted enough to someone to want to get to know them better?
By the reaction in this thread…as a single guy….the only way I should ever meet someone is thru friends, work, or classes. Some kind of activity where I get to know a woman well before I ask her out. If I approach you as a stranger, I’m a creep :roll: …..so….I guess I’m fucked. I don’t work with any women I’m interested in. I am at home with my kids most evenings, and have a very limited social life. How exactly am I supposed to ever meet a woman if they were all as tight assed as some of you are?
This has got to be the female equivalent of guys that call attractive women sluts based on their clothes or flirtiness. It’s just as sad and non-sensical. Also, I think there is probably a certain amount of tough-talk going on that relates to the ‘slut’ analogy – I think many of the women calling the situation ‘creepy’ would be jello if it were the right guy asking them out….just as most of the loser guys that judge a woman without knowing her are only doing so because they have no chance....and they would jump at a chance with her if she was interested....

First of all, there's a HUGE difference between a woman saying she, personally, would FEEL creeped out and saying the guy IS a creep. People are supposed to have a feeling inside them that tells them when to feel cautious. Maybe, as a guy, you don't understand this, but it keeps many women out of harm's way. How are we supposed to know if we can trust them? We are not critizing the guy, just saying how we would feel - and I believe that was the question. (Why would your feelings be any more legitimate than ours, anyway?) And I don't think this in any way relates to men calling women sluts.

You asked if it's really such a horrible thing to want to get to know someone better based on their physical appearance. Not necessarily. But is it really such a horrible thing if some women don't want to spend their valuable time with someone they know nothing about? Are we supposed to just go out with every guy who ever asks us out????? :? And is it really such a horrible thing if we want to reserve our time for someone who likes us for our minds and hearts instead of just for our looks? I really don't understand how you can fault us for that.

I understand your frustration about not being able to meet people to date. Women have the same problem, you know. I spend most of my time at work and work with very few men my age. Where am I supposed to meet people? There were a lot more opportunites when I was in college, or went out more, or worked with people my age. I know it's difficult. But I'm still not going to go out with any random guy who likes the way I look, even if I think he's good-looking too.

Also, many of us admitted that we'd be flattered. Who wouldn't be? But, once again, it's still not a reason to go out with someone.

_

decides2dream wrote:

um, no.
you could meet ANYwhere, have an actual conversation with the woman...and then ask her out. perfectly normal. walking up to a stranger, never even so much as exchanging a hello ever before and saying hi...want to go on a date? yea....sorry...weird. so sure, go to a party, go to a bar, chat with a woman on a long long at the market, see someone in starbucks and strike up a conversation...THEN ask for a date. i don't think that's odd at all. and being distrustful? eh, with good reason i think. actually, i am a fairly trusting individual, but yes...i am not an idiot either. it's called being cautious. it's good to exchange a few words, etc....get a vibe from someone, rather than simply getting asked on a date cold. i don't care what you look like, how well you dress or how great a smile you have (and that is ALL you can really get from seeing someone and not having any convo whatsoever) to simply walk up and say, want to go for dinner? yes.....creepy. i actually like to get some feeling for someone first. hell, even in a just friends arrangement, like to actully have a convo with you before i decide to invest some time with you. sheesh.

Is it just me, or do many guys seem to have some kind of sense of entitlement (for lack of a better word)? I've known many guys who get upset by women who won't go out with them.

EDIT: Maybe resentment is a better word.

_

Drowned Out wrote:

ok, ya...weird to just ask someone out without a conversation...but what is an acceptable length of convo then? 5 minutes? half an hour? what's the cut off? Are you going to actually talk to the person for that long, or get creeped out that a stranger is trying to have a conversation?
In a situation like the OP's 'friend"....is it going to be acceptable to walk into this salon and try to chat her up for long enough to not be deemed a creep? I think he's probably going to be painted that way before he opens his mouth...simply because he's attracted to her? that's kinda unfair. but hey, whatever....

We still don't really know the context of the OP. How has this guy even become aware of this woman to begin with? A little more context would help.

Drowned Out wrote:

I just think it's a joke that women look down on a guy for being attracted to them...which is basically what this is boils down to.

That is TOTALLY not what it boils down to. Geez... sensitive much?

decides2dream

scb wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

um, no.
you could meet ANYwhere, have an actual conversation with the woman...and then ask her out. perfectly normal. walking up to a stranger, never even so much as exchanging a hello ever before and saying hi...want to go on a date? yea....sorry...weird. so sure, go to a party, go to a bar, chat with a woman on a long long at the market, see someone in starbucks and strike up a conversation...THEN ask for a date. i don't think that's odd at all. and being distrustful? eh, with good reason i think. actually, i am a fairly trusting individual, but yes...i am not an idiot either. it's called being cautious. it's good to exchange a few words, etc....get a vibe from someone, rather than simply getting asked on a date cold. i don't care what you look like, how well you dress or how great a smile you have (and that is ALL you can really get from seeing someone and not having any convo whatsoever) to simply walk up and say, want to go for dinner? yes.....creepy. i actually like to get some feeling for someone first. hell, even in a just friends arrangement, like to actully have a convo with you before i decide to invest some time with you. sheesh.

Is it just me, or do many guys seem to have some kind of sense of entitlement (for lack of a better word)? I've known many guys who get upset by women who won't go out with them.

idk...i think most men, and even women, take it for what it's worth and move on. it's all so individual. i do think some people, do have a sense of entitlement and/or annoyance, especially if they think they 'invested' some time with you, even if just conversation....but again, imo, it simply illustrates why even just a wee bit of preliminary convo is ALWAYS wise.

as to women taking guys to task for being attraced to us physically, i think is an unfair assessment. i don't think anyone is truly doing that. of COURSE initial attraction is based on surfaces, b/c there has to be *something* that attracts you to actually approach someone, at all. that's a-ok. i think many of us here simply are saying that that, in and of itself, really isn't *enough*....to go on a date. a wee bit of banter, a little getting-to-know-you....even on the most preliminary level, does wonders! you might be the most gorgeous person in the world, looking from afar....but up close....hygiene may be severely lacking, you might have THE most annoying voice on the planet - just sticking with the superficials....and beyond that, once you open your mouth and talk, might find you unattractive right-off! so honestly, i take no issue with being judged on looks, being desired or outright rejected on superficials alone, it IS a part of the 'whole package'...but along with it, i personally deem it important to at the vry least see some 'spark' in our convo, some ease and comfort....to actually find you attractive as well to some degree, before accepting a date. why waste anyone's time? it may be great or it may still suck....but that preliminary moment of weighing options benefits everyone.

norm

soulsinging where are you?!?!

Ms. Haiku

You can call me tight assed/prudish- I definitely would win that category if it was an olympic sport

However, the other women on the board are just writing sensible stuff, eh? Talk first, date second. I wasn't getting that the talk-first part was in the OPs original post. Mea culpa

If only the OPs friend would grow his hair out there would come a time when he may want a hair cut, and then blah blah blah . . .

libragirl

If a complete stranger came up to me asking me out? I think I would say no.

LikeAnOcean

Just tell him to put on his best suit before he does it.. good luck!

I'm a guy, but would never take any girl seriously if she did that to me.. at least when considering a dating relationship.

Good looking girls usually don't need to do the asking though and you gotta give the not so attractive ones credit for trying.

decides2dream

Ms. Haiku wrote:

You can call me tight assed/prudish- I definitely would win that category if it was an olympic sport

However, the other women on the board are just writing sensible stuff, eh? Talk first, date second. I wasn't getting that the talk-first part was in the OPs original post. Mea culpa

If only the OPs friend would grow his hair out there would come a time when he may want a hair cut, and then blah blah blah . . .

exactly.
if he's THAt interested.....;)

i didn't think 'women's only' salons even existed anymore. hair salons seem open to both genders as far as i can tell.



and norm.....conor must be off celebrating finishing his exam and all that, otherwise..clearly....he would've been the third post in here. :P

norm

i agree that approaching her at work and asking her out wouldn't go over well, i'm curious...


how is it really that much of a difference if he were to do it at a bar? is it really the setting in which one meets someone that determines the creepiness factor?

Drowned Out

norm wrote:

soulsinging where are you?!?!

EXACTLY what I was just thinking. I need help.
All of d2d's friends are ganging up on me.
Yes, I'm sensitive. I thought chicks dug that?
ah well, mea culpa :roll:

I'll get back to this from home - this is too time consuming a topic for work

Ms. Haiku

norm wrote:

i agree that approaching her at work and asking her out wouldn't go over well, i'm curious...


how is it really that much of a difference if he were to do it at a bar? is it really the setting in which one meets someone that determines the creepiness factor?

I think the asker-outer would have to get an instinctual vibe about the situation. Often times, but not all, people go to bars to meet other people. Sometimes a group of people go to a bar to just hang out with each other, but it's almost an unwritten code that people are freer to talk and be talked with at bars.

At work, the asker-outer really needs to know how the asker-outee acts when she is busy, or when she is available to talk. In this case, the asker-outer needs more information before any action.