ok, ya...weird to just ask someone out without a conversation...but what is an acceptable length of convo then? 5 minutes? half an hour? what's the cut off? Are you going to actually talk to the person for that long, or get creeped out that a stranger is trying to have a conversation?
In a situation like the OP's 'friend"....is it going to be acceptable to walk into this salon and try to chat her up for long enough to not be deemed a creep? I think he's probably going to be painted that way before he opens his mouth...simply because he's attracted to her? that's kinda unfair. but hey, whatever....
We still don't really know the context of the OP. How has this guy even become aware of this woman to begin with? A little more context would help.
um, no.
you could meet ANYwhere, have an actual conversation with the woman...and then ask her out. perfectly normal. walking up to a stranger, never even so much as exchanging a hello ever before and saying hi...want to go on a date? yea....sorry...weird. so sure, go to a party, go to a bar, chat with a woman on a long long at the market, see someone in starbucks and strike up a conversation...THEN ask for a date. i don't think that's odd at all. and being distrustful? eh, with good reason i think. actually, i am a fairly trusting individual, but yes...i am not an idiot either. it's called being cautious. it's good to exchange a few words, etc....get a vibe from someone, rather than simply getting asked on a date cold. i don't care what you look like, how well you dress or how great a smile you have (and that is ALL you can really get from seeing someone and not having any convo whatsoever) to simply walk up and say, want to go for dinner? yes.....creepy. i actually like to get some feeling for someone first. hell, even in a just friends arrangement, like to actully have a convo with you before i decide to invest some time with you. sheesh.
Is it just me, or do many guys seem to have some kind of sense of entitlement (for lack of a better word)? I've known many guys who get upset by women who won't go out with them.
idk...i think most men, and even women, take it for what it's worth and move on. it's all so individual. i do think some people, do have a sense of entitlement and/or annoyance, especially if they think they 'invested' some time with you, even if just conversation....but again, imo, it simply illustrates why even just a wee bit of preliminary convo is ALWAYS wise.
as to women taking guys to task for being attraced to us physically, i think is an unfair assessment. i don't think anyone is truly doing that. of COURSE initial attraction is based on surfaces, b/c there has to be *something* that attracts you to actually approach someone, at all. that's a-ok. i think many of us here simply are saying that that, in and of itself, really isn't *enough*....to go on a date. a wee bit of banter, a little getting-to-know-you....even on the most preliminary level, does wonders! you might be the most gorgeous person in the world, looking from afar....but up close....hygiene may be severely lacking, you might have THE most annoying voice on the planet - just sticking with the superficials....and beyond that, once you open your mouth and talk, might find you unattractive right-off! so honestly, i take no issue with being judged on looks, being desired or outright rejected on superficials alone, it IS a part of the 'whole package'...but along with it, i personally deem it important to at the vry least see some 'spark' in our convo, some ease and comfort....to actually find you attractive as well to some degree, before accepting a date. why waste anyone's time? it may be great or it may still suck....but that preliminary moment of weighing options benefits everyone.
You can call me tight assed/prudish- I definitely would win that category if it was an olympic sport
However, the other women on the board are just writing sensible stuff, eh? Talk first, date second. I wasn't getting that the talk-first part was in the OPs original post. Mea culpa
If only the OPs friend would grow his hair out there would come a time when he may want a hair cut, and then blah blah blah . . .
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
You can call me tight assed/prudish- I definitely would win that category if it was an olympic sport
However, the other women on the board are just writing sensible stuff, eh? Talk first, date second. I wasn't getting that the talk-first part was in the OPs original post. Mea culpa
If only the OPs friend would grow his hair out there would come a time when he may want a hair cut, and then blah blah blah . . .
exactly.
if he's THAt interested.....;)
i didn't think 'women's only' salons even existed anymore. hair salons seem open to both genders as far as i can tell.
and norm.....conor must be off celebrating finishing his exam and all that, otherwise..clearly....he would've been the third post in here. :P
i agree that approaching her at work and asking her out wouldn't go over well, i'm curious...
how is it really that much of a difference if he were to do it at a bar? is it really the setting in which one meets someone that determines the creepiness factor?
EXACTLY what I was just thinking. I need help.
All of d2d's friends are ganging up on me.
Yes, I'm sensitive. I thought chicks dug that?
ah well, mea culpa :roll:
I'll get back to this from home - this is too time consuming a topic for work
i agree that approaching her at work and asking her out wouldn't go over well, i'm curious...
how is it really that much of a difference if he were to do it at a bar? is it really the setting in which one meets someone that determines the creepiness factor?
I think the asker-outer would have to get an instinctual vibe about the situation. Often times, but not all, people go to bars to meet other people. Sometimes a group of people go to a bar to just hang out with each other, but it's almost an unwritten code that people are freer to talk and be talked with at bars.
At work, the asker-outer really needs to know how the asker-outee acts when she is busy, or when she is available to talk. In this case, the asker-outer needs more information before any action.
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
i agree that approaching her at work and asking her out wouldn't go over well, i'm curious...
how is it really that much of a difference if he were to do it at a bar? is it really the setting in which one meets someone that determines the creepiness factor?
i think what helps is at a bar, #1....you kinda expect it. after that, you are on 'neutral gorund'...out to socialize, drink, etc. the atmosphere just lends itself more to being approached, and having some time to have a conversation. i also suggested even meeting someone in a market, at a starbucks, etc.....as long as you can stirke up convo. meeting her at her work wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing at all, IF he were in for a haircut! again, a bit more time to assess each other, and yes....have a more natural conversation. it is simply the lack of time coupled with the surprise factor of being approached, cold, while at work.....that really sets it off for me. also, many of us were responding to the initial post, not the subsequent one with the actual details of the girl, the hair salon, etc. a bar, a market, etc....all are on equal footing and a wee bit of time for conversation...also the ability to walk away...so it's setting and context imo.
if a random guy just stops me cold on the street for a convo, will give me a lot more pause than a guy doing so in the bookstore ior in a bar. i wouldn;t necessarily think 'creepy' in the first scenario and not the others, would depend on the convo to follow in all scenarios....but the first, just a bit more awkward/weird. so setting does come into play.
also, in THIS particular scenario - approaching her at work, cold.....not going for a haircut, just coming in, which means to some degree he saw her elsewhere, or was looking in at her, etc...so just at the very least, wee bit more awkward, if not possibly creepy.
drowned....oh stop. :P
you took issue, basicall,y with ms. haiku's words....and she explained herself already. even her post, in context of ONLT the OP, perhaps rash?...but still fitting. any other comments, all sensible. and yea....your tight-ass comment annoyed me. so sure, all even. it has nothing to do with 'friends' and everything to do with being female, knowing what it feels like, being cautious and sensible. and you had to call that tight-assed.
EXACTLY what I was just thinking. I need help.
All of d2d's friends are ganging up on me.
Yes, I'm sensitive. I thought chicks dug that?
ah well, mea culpa :roll:
I'll get back to this from home - this is too time consuming a topic for work
EXACTLY what I was just thinking. I need help.
All of d2d's friends are ganging up on me.
Yes, I'm sensitive. I thought chicks dug that?
ah well, mea culpa :roll:
I'll get back to this from home - this is too time consuming a topic for work
funny too...b/c out of all my "friends" posting in this thread, the only one i have every actually met and had a few drinks with? that would be drowned out. so so much for that arguement....;)
and norm, we need to do so in HAWAII!
i am off for the weekend, have fun kiddies......and as to the topic, go make an appointment for a haircut!
He's fucked...I gave him the low down and his balls are now busted!
He saw her walking past her workplace and saw what he liked but didn't know how to go about talking to her without looking like a stalker or something. He said she's attractive, doesn't know if she's his type but would like to get to know her to find out. Only problem is he struggling to find a way to do it. I feel sorry for him cuz the longer he waits, the more likely it is she'll get a man if she already doesn't have one.
I suggested to just to go in and talk to her...say something like she caught his eye as he was walking by and kind of go from there.
First of all, there's a HUGE difference between a woman saying she, personally, would FEEL creeped out and saying the guy IS a creep. People are supposed to have a feeling inside them that tells them when to feel cautious. Maybe, as a guy, you don't understand this, but it keeps many women out of harm's way. How are we supposed to know if we can trust them? We are not critizing the guy, just saying how we would feel - and I believe that was the question. (Why would your feelings be any more legitimate than ours, anyway?) And I don't think this in any way relates to men calling women sluts..
Didn't say my feelings were any more legitimate. The creepy vs creep / behaviour vs trait thing is semantics - I'm talking about a woman's 'approachability', if you will...
Harm's way? Know if you can trust them? They're asking you out, not forcing themselves on you....you're right, I don't understand this. I think ALL people are overly cautious of strangers in general. Seriously, what does it hurt to give someone the benefit of the doubt? Unless you're in some dark alley when he stops you, or he is right 'in your space' ACTING threatening, there is no reason to feel threatened...I don't know why you'd assume the worst if you were in a public place and he was asking you out!....I'm not saying you have to go out with the person, just don't instantly get your back up over an awkward approach.
as for the slut comment... I stand by what I said, but I'm diggin enough holes for now That would be derailment number...what? 5?
You asked if it's really such a horrible thing to want to get to know someone better based on their physical appearance. Not necessarily. But is it really such a horrible thing if some women don't want to spend their valuable time with someone they know nothing about? Are we supposed to just go out with every guy who ever asks us out????? :? And is it really such a horrible thing if we want to reserve our time for someone who likes us for our minds and hearts instead of just for our looks? I really don't understand how you can fault us for that..
you know what? We love women for their hearts...we could gaze longingly at your hearts forever
seriously....I'm not implying that men are entitled to a date just because they asked, I don't see how you're getting that from what I've said. But with the philosophy in this post, you can only ever date within your existing social circle.....people that already know you enough to like you for a reason other than the initial attraction. how else would they like you for your heart and mind? Unless...of course....we could read minds. Which has been scientifically proven to be what women want from men
I understand your frustration about not being able to meet people to date. Women have the same problem, you know. I spend most of my time at work and work with very few men my age. Where am I supposed to meet people? There were a lot more opportunites when I was in college, or went out more, or worked with people my age. I know it's difficult. But I'm still not going to go out with any random guy who likes the way I look, even if I think he's good-looking too..Also, many of us admitted that we'd be flattered. Who wouldn't be? But, once again, it's still not a reason to go out with someone.
of course not. But this is where the communication breakdown came into all of this...there IS going to be at least SOME banter involved....AND...body language, charisma, all the superficial stuff d2d mentioned...the instantaneous first impression. I think most of the women here are picturing worst case scenario...some ugly, bathed-in-cologne, crass fool, who just wants sex interrupting them at the worst possible time, ....and I'm picturing my worst case: lil old me being shot down with great malice by a stranger that I had an innocent crush on.
I'd be creeped out. I'd have to know the person first. And I'd use the first excuse I could think of to get away from the interaction.
If he is interested, he should get one of his female friends to go in and get her nails done, and maybe try to find out something about the one he's interested in. For all he knows she's already married or in a relationship.
R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
I'd be creeped out. I'd have to know the person first. And I'd use the first excuse I could think of to get away from the interaction.
If he is interested, he should get one of his female friends to go in and get her nails done, and maybe try to find out something about the one he's interested in. For all he knows she's already married or in a relationship.
Why does it matter if she's already married or in a relationship? That's just a chance he's taking and something he'll find out if he talks to her. Shouldn't be something that stops him from approaching her!
Why does it matter if she's already married or in a relationship? That's just a chance he's taking and something he'll find out if he talks to her. Shouldn't be something that stops him from approaching her!
I agree. Shouldn't stop him from trying. He just needs to go in and put his balls on the line and ask her out!
First of all, there's a HUGE difference between a woman saying she, personally, would FEEL creeped out and saying the guy IS a creep. People are supposed to have a feeling inside them that tells them when to feel cautious. Maybe, as a guy, you don't understand this, but it keeps many women out of harm's way. How are we supposed to know if we can trust them? We are not critizing the guy, just saying how we would feel - and I believe that was the question. (Why would your feelings be any more legitimate than ours, anyway?) And I don't think this in any way relates to men calling women sluts..
Didn't say my feelings were any more legitimate. The creepy vs creep / behaviour vs trait thing is semantics - I'm talking about a woman's 'approachability', if you will...
Harm's way? Know if you can trust them? They're asking you out, not forcing themselves on you....you're right, I don't understand this. I think ALL people are overly cautious of strangers in general. Seriously, what does it hurt to give someone the benefit of the doubt? Unless you're in some dark alley when he stops you, or he is right 'in your space' ACTING threatening, there is no reason to feel threatened...I don't know why you'd assume the worst if you were in a public place and he was asking you out!....I'm not saying you have to go out with the person, just don't instantly get your back up over an awkward approach.
as for the slut comment... I stand by what I said, but I'm diggin enough holes for now That would be derailment number...what? 5?
You asked if it's really such a horrible thing to want to get to know someone better based on their physical appearance. Not necessarily. But is it really such a horrible thing if some women don't want to spend their valuable time with someone they know nothing about? Are we supposed to just go out with every guy who ever asks us out????? :? And is it really such a horrible thing if we want to reserve our time for someone who likes us for our minds and hearts instead of just for our looks? I really don't understand how you can fault us for that..
you know what? We love women for their hearts...we could gaze longingly at your hearts forever
seriously....I'm not implying that men are entitled to a date just because they asked, I don't see how you're getting that from what I've said. But with the philosophy in this post, you can only ever date within your existing social circle.....people that already know you enough to like you for a reason other than the initial attraction. how else would they like you for your heart and mind? Unless...of course....we could read minds. Which has been scientifically proven to be what women want from men
I understand your frustration about not being able to meet people to date. Women have the same problem, you know. I spend most of my time at work and work with very few men my age. Where am I supposed to meet people? There were a lot more opportunites when I was in college, or went out more, or worked with people my age. I know it's difficult. But I'm still not going to go out with any random guy who likes the way I look, even if I think he's good-looking too..Also, many of us admitted that we'd be flattered. Who wouldn't be? But, once again, it's still not a reason to go out with someone.
of course not. But this is where the communication breakdown came into all of this...there IS going to be at least SOME banter involved....AND...body language, charisma, all the superficial stuff d2d mentioned...the instantaneous first impression. I think most of the women here are picturing worst case scenario...some ugly, bathed-in-cologne, crass fool, who just wants sex interrupting them at the worst possible time, ....and I'm picturing my worst case: lil old me being shot down with great malice by a stranger that I had an innocent crush on.
Men will never understand women? After being around them for 31 years I'm lost more than ever. I know we all think on a different level but damn, WTF? They are like rubix cubes and I've never solved one to date.
Men will never understand women? After being around them for 31 years I'm lost more than ever. I know we all think on a different level but damn, WTF? They are like rubix cubes and I've never solved one to date.
I've been known to have this effect on women.
I'm glad this was your response, cause I put more effort into that response than most 'relationships' I've been in recently, and I didn't want to continue. I gave up a long time ago...why do you think I'm always here with you losers?
he should just walk in there and ask her out. it makes her intrigued right from the start and already has the in and can go from there. to make it no so creepy he should get a haircut from there and then as he walking out ask her out.
Post edited by Gary Carter on
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Comments
We still don't really know the context of the OP. How has this guy even become aware of this woman to begin with? A little more context would help.
That is TOTALLY not what it boils down to. Geez... sensitive much?
idk...i think most men, and even women, take it for what it's worth and move on. it's all so individual. i do think some people, do have a sense of entitlement and/or annoyance, especially if they think they 'invested' some time with you, even if just conversation....but again, imo, it simply illustrates why even just a wee bit of preliminary convo is ALWAYS wise.
as to women taking guys to task for being attraced to us physically, i think is an unfair assessment. i don't think anyone is truly doing that. of COURSE initial attraction is based on surfaces, b/c there has to be *something* that attracts you to actually approach someone, at all. that's a-ok. i think many of us here simply are saying that that, in and of itself, really isn't *enough*....to go on a date. a wee bit of banter, a little getting-to-know-you....even on the most preliminary level, does wonders! you might be the most gorgeous person in the world, looking from afar....but up close....hygiene may be severely lacking, you might have THE most annoying voice on the planet - just sticking with the superficials....and beyond that, once you open your mouth and talk, might find you unattractive right-off! so honestly, i take no issue with being judged on looks, being desired or outright rejected on superficials alone, it IS a part of the 'whole package'...but along with it, i personally deem it important to at the vry least see some 'spark' in our convo, some ease and comfort....to actually find you attractive as well to some degree, before accepting a date. why waste anyone's time? it may be great or it may still suck....but that preliminary moment of weighing options benefits everyone.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
However, the other women on the board are just writing sensible stuff, eh? Talk first, date second. I wasn't getting that the talk-first part was in the OPs original post. Mea culpa
If only the OPs friend would grow his hair out there would come a time when he may want a hair cut, and then blah blah blah . . .
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
I'm a guy, but would never take any girl seriously if she did that to me.. at least when considering a dating relationship.
Good looking girls usually don't need to do the asking though and you gotta give the not so attractive ones credit for trying.
exactly.
if he's THAt interested.....;)
i didn't think 'women's only' salons even existed anymore. hair salons seem open to both genders as far as i can tell.
and norm.....conor must be off celebrating finishing his exam and all that, otherwise..clearly....he would've been the third post in here. :P
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
how is it really that much of a difference if he were to do it at a bar? is it really the setting in which one meets someone that determines the creepiness factor?
EXACTLY what I was just thinking. I need help.
All of d2d's friends are ganging up on me.
Yes, I'm sensitive. I thought chicks dug that?
ah well, mea culpa :roll:
I'll get back to this from home - this is too time consuming a topic for work
At work, the asker-outer really needs to know how the asker-outee acts when she is busy, or when she is available to talk. In this case, the asker-outer needs more information before any action.
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
i think what helps is at a bar, #1....you kinda expect it. after that, you are on 'neutral gorund'...out to socialize, drink, etc. the atmosphere just lends itself more to being approached, and having some time to have a conversation. i also suggested even meeting someone in a market, at a starbucks, etc.....as long as you can stirke up convo. meeting her at her work wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing at all, IF he were in for a haircut! again, a bit more time to assess each other, and yes....have a more natural conversation. it is simply the lack of time coupled with the surprise factor of being approached, cold, while at work.....that really sets it off for me. also, many of us were responding to the initial post, not the subsequent one with the actual details of the girl, the hair salon, etc. a bar, a market, etc....all are on equal footing and a wee bit of time for conversation...also the ability to walk away...so it's setting and context imo.
if a random guy just stops me cold on the street for a convo, will give me a lot more pause than a guy doing so in the bookstore ior in a bar. i wouldn;t necessarily think 'creepy' in the first scenario and not the others, would depend on the convo to follow in all scenarios....but the first, just a bit more awkward/weird. so setting does come into play.
also, in THIS particular scenario - approaching her at work, cold.....not going for a haircut, just coming in, which means to some degree he saw her elsewhere, or was looking in at her, etc...so just at the very least, wee bit more awkward, if not possibly creepy.
drowned....oh stop. :P
you took issue, basicall,y with ms. haiku's words....and she explained herself already. even her post, in context of ONLT the OP, perhaps rash?...but still fitting. any other comments, all sensible. and yea....your tight-ass comment annoyed me. so sure, all even. it has nothing to do with 'friends' and everything to do with being female, knowing what it feels like, being cautious and sensible. and you had to call that tight-assed.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
actually i think he's started his job so if he's hazed like first year associates usually are we may neversee him again! :shock:
funny too...b/c out of all my "friends" posting in this thread, the only one i have every actually met and had a few drinks with? that would be drowned out.
and norm, we need to do so in HAWAII!
i am off for the weekend, have fun kiddies......and as to the topic, go make an appointment for a haircut!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Might work....might not....worth a try!
★ 2009 - Sydney, Brisbane, Auckland, Christchurch ★
★ 2011 - EV Newcastle, Melbourne 1, Melbourne 2 ★
He saw her walking past her workplace and saw what he liked but didn't know how to go about talking to her without looking like a stalker or something. He said she's attractive, doesn't know if she's his type but would like to get to know her to find out. Only problem is he struggling to find a way to do it. I feel sorry for him cuz the longer he waits, the more likely it is she'll get a man if she already doesn't have one.
I suggested to just to go in and talk to her...say something like she caught his eye as he was walking by and kind of go from there.
Why yes...yes I do! and you?
Always!
★ 2009 - Sydney, Brisbane, Auckland, Christchurch ★
★ 2011 - EV Newcastle, Melbourne 1, Melbourne 2 ★
Well, yes, I have a tight ass. And I thought guys dug that!
Harm's way? Know if you can trust them? They're asking you out, not forcing themselves on you....you're right, I don't understand this. I think ALL people are overly cautious of strangers in general. Seriously, what does it hurt to give someone the benefit of the doubt? Unless you're in some dark alley when he stops you, or he is right 'in your space' ACTING threatening, there is no reason to feel threatened...I don't know why you'd assume the worst if you were in a public place and he was asking you out!....I'm not saying you have to go out with the person, just don't instantly get your back up over an awkward approach.
as for the slut comment... I stand by what I said, but I'm diggin enough holes for now
you know what? We love women for their hearts...we could gaze longingly at your hearts forever
seriously....I'm not implying that men are entitled to a date just because they asked, I don't see how you're getting that from what I've said. But with the philosophy in this post, you can only ever date within your existing social circle.....people that already know you enough to like you for a reason other than the initial attraction. how else would they like you for your heart and mind? Unless...of course....we could read minds. Which has been scientifically proven to be what women want from men
of course not. But this is where the communication breakdown came into all of this...there IS going to be at least SOME banter involved....AND...body language, charisma, all the superficial stuff d2d mentioned...the instantaneous first impression. I think most of the women here are picturing worst case scenario...some ugly, bathed-in-cologne, crass fool, who just wants sex interrupting them at the worst possible time, ....and I'm picturing my worst case: lil old me being shot down with great malice by a stranger that I had an innocent crush on.
If he is interested, he should get one of his female friends to go in and get her nails done, and maybe try to find out something about the one he's interested in. For all he knows she's already married or in a relationship.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
Why does it matter if she's already married or in a relationship? That's just a chance he's taking and something he'll find out if he talks to her. Shouldn't be something that stops him from approaching her!
I agree. Shouldn't stop him from trying. He just needs to go in and put his balls on the line and ask her out!
★ 2009 - Sydney, Brisbane, Auckland, Christchurch ★
★ 2011 - EV Newcastle, Melbourne 1, Melbourne 2 ★
I think I'm going to just become a lesbian.
Me too
Men will never understand women? After being around them for 31 years I'm lost more than ever. I know we all think on a different level but damn, WTF?
You're hanging around the wrong chicks!
★ 2009 - Sydney, Brisbane, Auckland, Christchurch ★
★ 2011 - EV Newcastle, Melbourne 1, Melbourne 2 ★
I'm glad this was your response, cause I put more effort into that response than most 'relationships' I've been in recently, and I didn't want to continue. I gave up a long time ago...why do you think I'm always here with you losers?
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Sammi: Wanna just break up?