seriously, if the target cds work for this and the ten club ones don't.... i'm buying a 2nd one from target.
take that, pearl jam!!! ; )
I think the 10c members will get the option of the downloads too
I just think it's strange they (10club) didn't announce the download(s) as a perk to buying/pre-ordering the cd.... given the way we all salivate over every thing this band does!!! : )
but, whatevah... as i said, i'll buy a second copy if it means getting to download a couple of extra shows.
Ok lets ban the N word (although the term the "n-word" should be equally offensive since we all know what you are saying) and lets ban the word gay. Lets also ban the word hetero and straight, because I am sure people could be offended by that. We should also ban the word Northerner because all people from the north are not the same. And lets stop labeling people as repub or dems because I find offense in that.
you see where this is going? I have the freedom of speech, you do not have the right to be not offended. That is just how it is.
OK You are missing my point but ok. I’ll leave it at that.
I thought I understood your point. using the word gay as a negative is wrong. I get it.
My point is that we have the right to say things that offend other people. they have the right to ignore it.
If you start banning words people find offensive, you are opening a can of worms. Anything will be offensive to someone.
Ok lets ban the N word (although the term the "n-word" should be equally offensive since we all know what you are saying) and lets ban the word gay. Lets also ban the word hetero and straight, because I am sure people could be offended by that. We should also ban the word Northerner because all people from the north are not the same. And lets stop labeling people as repub or dems because I find offense in that.
you see where this is going? I have the freedom of speech, you do not have the right to be not offended. That is just how it is.
OK You are missing my point but ok. I’ll leave it at that.
I thought I understood your point. using the word gay as a negative is wrong. I get it.
My point is that we have the right to say things that offend other people. they have the right to ignore it.
If you start banning words people find offensive, you are opening a can of worms. Anything will be offensive to someone.
I’m sorry but that’s where I think you are wrong, we live in a society and no one should have the right to offend or hurt other people.
is it an unfortunate reality, yes sure, is it ok? absolutely not.
"Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV
OK You are missing my point but ok. I’ll leave it at that.
I thought I understood your point. using the word gay as a negative is wrong. I get it.
My point is that we have the right to say things that offend other people. they have the right to ignore it.
If you start banning words people find offensive, you are opening a can of worms. Anything will be offensive to someone.
I’m sorry but that’s where I think you are wrong, we live in a society and no one should have the right to offend or hurt other people.
is it an unfortunate reality, yes sure, is it ok? absolutely not.
I am offended by that. please stop saying that. thank you.
and the original post wasnt trying to offend gay people. You interpreted as an insult. He wasnt trying to hurt anyone feelings. His INTENTION was not to insult.
All the albums will have this "eBridge" technology:
"The album is also encoded with Sony's DADC's eBridge technology allowing fans to unlock extra content.The Target release will bump users to a vault of eleven concerts from which two can be selected."
We'll also have a new t-shirt to buy ...
"An organic cotton t-shirt will also be sold at the big retailer, with proceeds going to Feeding America."
and I see what youre saying but was it really necessary to call someone out on a board in a thread not pertaining to said subject of homophobia and make THIS BIG A DEAL out of it? I say no..and that was my point of making light of it..jesus...I cant even count the number of times Ive been called Dego..you think I take so much offense? come on
Petrocs,
No one accused anyone of homophobia, I’m sure the guy that said it is not a homophobe, it’s just a matter of thinking before you speak or type.
But I see now that in your opinion people should use whatever word they chose without any regard, I don’t agree with that, I would feel ashamed if I heard any of my kids use that word in that context and I wouldn’t assume that they are homophobes just that they didn’t know better.
Would I walk out of a movie because of it? Probably not but I would definitely think it’s wrong.
A lot of young people use that word without meaning to offend anyone, without meaning any harm, it doesn’t make it right though, that’s all I’m saying.
Actually, I think this is a good thing. It means the word is devalued as a homophobic slur. The irony is, when the word police point out that it's offensive, then it gives the word back it's original negative value. I hate when people assign words some intrinsic value with no regard to context. Like this: If a male friend of mine does something effeminite, and I say, "Dude, you're so gay," that at least has some context of homophobia, as if actually being gay was somehow wrong. If I see a lame movie and say, "that movie was gay," there is ABSOLUTELY NO ASSOCIATION WITH HOMOSEXUALITY. I am not saying that the movie is somehow attracted to other movies of the same gender, I'm just saying it's lame. Words only have the meanings we assign them. It is exactly like someone being offended by a curse word in and of itself. Words aren't intrinsically bad or good. It's their intent.
Actually, I think this is a good thing. It means the word is devalued as a homophobic slur. The irony is, when the word police point out that it's offensive, then it gives the word back it's original negative value. I hate when people assign words some intrinsic value with no regard to context. Like this: If a male friend of mine does something effeminite, and I say, "Dude, you're so gay," that at least has some context of homophobia, as if actually being gay was somehow wrong. If I see a lame movie and say, "that movie was gay," there is ABSOLUTELY NO ASSOCIATION WITH HOMOSEXUALITY. I am not saying that the movie is somehow attracted to other movies of the same gender, I'm just saying it's lame. Words only have the meanings we assign them. It is exactly like someone being offended by a curse word in and of itself. Words aren't intrinsically bad or good. It's their intent.
... If I see a lame movie and say, "that movie was gay," there is ABSOLUTELY NO ASSOCIATION WITH HOMOSEXUALITY. I am not saying that the movie is somehow attracted to other movies of the same gender, I'm just saying it's lame. ...
But how would you feel if someone who is gay was standing nearby and heard you associate something "lame" with the lifestyle they were given no choice to lead?
... If I see a lame movie and say, "that movie was gay," there is ABSOLUTELY NO ASSOCIATION WITH HOMOSEXUALITY. I am not saying that the movie is somehow attracted to other movies of the same gender, I'm just saying it's lame. ...
But how would you feel if someone who is gay was standing nearby and heard you associate something "lame" with the lifestyle they were given no choice to lead?
I would expect them to either ignore me or realize the context I was using the word in. Cant always worry about what other people think.
... If I see a lame movie and say, "that movie was gay," there is ABSOLUTELY NO ASSOCIATION WITH HOMOSEXUALITY. I am not saying that the movie is somehow attracted to other movies of the same gender, I'm just saying it's lame. ...
But how would you feel if someone who is gay was standing nearby and heard you associate something "lame" with the lifestyle they were given no choice to lead?
I would expect them to either ignore me or realize the context I was using the word in. Cant always worry about what other people think.
well then you are just incredibly insensitive and there is nothing that anyone can say that will change your mind about using 'gay' as an insult.
seriously, if the target cds work for this and the ten club ones don't.... i'm buying a 2nd one from target.
take that, pearl jam!!! ; )
I think the 10c members will get the option of the downloads too
I just think it's strange they (10club) didn't announce the download(s) as a perk to buying/pre-ordering the cd.... given the way we all salivate over every thing this band does!!! : )
but, whatevah... as i said, i'll buy a second copy if it means getting to download a couple of extra shows.
I may do the same- I may wait and see what shows are available-
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
well then you are just incredibly insensitive and there is nothing that anyone can say that will change your mind about using 'gay' as an insult.
No, you are just overly sensitive and people need to adjust what words they use as to not hurt your feelings.
no, i'm not overly sensitive and my feelings have not been hurt. i am annoyed, however, that you seem to be championing using 'gay' as an insult as an exercise in free-speech. it's not about free speech, it's about you protecting your own position of power and privilege. no one is challenging your right to say what you want, but it goes both ways and everyone else has the right to point out that it's a shitty thing to say.
I would expect them to either ignore me or realize the context I was using the word in. Cant always worry about what other people think.[/quote]
well then you are just incredibly insensitive and there is nothing that anyone can say that will change your mind about using 'gay' as an insult.[/quote]
the guy cannot be reached with reason.... time to let it go. we all tried.
well then you are just incredibly insensitive and there is nothing that anyone can say that will change your mind about using 'gay' as an insult.
the guy cannot be reached with reason.... time to let it go. we all tried.
I dont go around insulting anyone, not my style. But I will defend anyone's right to say anything. If someone says something that I find insulting or offensive, I move on and dont let it bother me. More important things to worry about.
... If I see a lame movie and say, "that movie was gay," there is ABSOLUTELY NO ASSOCIATION WITH HOMOSEXUALITY. I am not saying that the movie is somehow attracted to other movies of the same gender, I'm just saying it's lame. ...
But how would you feel if someone who is gay was standing nearby and heard you associate something "lame" with the lifestyle they were given no choice to lead?
Well, as I said (in all caps no less) it's not associated with their lifestyle in any way.
Do you actually know anyone who is gay? You seem to have many more preconceived notions about how gay people are than any of the so-called "insensitive" people on this board. Not all gay people are super-senitive people who can't even stand to hear the word "gay" with no respect to the context it's used without getting offended. My gay friends couldn't give two shits about some random person using gay to mean lame. They're a little more thick-skinned than that. Now if what you meant to say is if I was standing next to some hyper-sensitive gay person who got offended without even paying attention to the context it was used, then no I wouldn't care what they thought. It is a reflection of their inferrence, not my implications.
I would expect them to either ignore me or realize the context I was using the word in. Cant always worry about what other people think.
well then you are just incredibly insensitive and there is nothing that anyone can say that will change your mind about using 'gay' as an insult.[/quote]
the guy cannot be reached with reason.... time to let it go. we all tried.[/quote]
Seriously, don't pull the whole "We're using reason and you're not" routine... It's pretty clear that there's a fundamental difference in opinion here, and I think both sides are pretty reasonable, just different. You think that words have some sort of intrinsic value that somehow exist outside of context of usage, and some disagree with this. You're opinion is no more valid or reasonable.
My gay friends couldn't give two shits about some random person using gay to mean lame.
Same here. It's one thing to be disappointed in his choice of language and move on. It's another to derail an entire thread with a language ettiquette lesson. Some people are really wimpy when it comes to foul language, slurs and insults. They're just words. Get over it!
Some people are really wimpy when it comes to foul language, slurs and insults. They're just words. Get over it!
i guess i just feel like if someone posted something about "being 'jewed' out of something" or mentioned 'CP time', or anything to that effect using any other slur (no matter what the intention :roll: ), there would be a lot less people defending it.
My response would have been, you dont understand the meaning of that word amongst my friends and I and I find it extremely rude and insulting for you to come over to us and basically tell us that we are rude and disrespectful people based on a private conversation that contain a word that you dont use the same way as we do. Could you kindly leave so we can get back to our conversation that you are not a part of. Thanks.
funny that most of the requested live shows on this thread ARE indeed available out there....
And there are good recordings out there of those shows
I'm expecting these vault shows to be the more popular shows like randalls island 96 or seattle 00 or state college. This isn't geared to us "die hard" fans. Its more so for bringing in new fans to the mix.
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
funny that most of the requested live shows on this thread ARE indeed available out there....
And there are good recordings out there of those shows
I'm expecting these vault shows to be the more popular shows like randalls island 96 or seattle 00 or state college. This isn't geared to us "die hard" fans. Its more so for bringing in new fans to the mix.
Thats what I think too, but I would not mind if they put out some of those pre 2000 shows in better quality, or with a better mix. Or if they put out those rumored PJ shows that took place in the summer of 2007.
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
funny that most of the requested live shows on this thread ARE indeed available out there....
And there are good recordings out there of those shows
I'm expecting these vault shows to be the more popular shows like randalls island 96 or seattle 00 or state college. This isn't geared to us "die hard" fans. Its more so for bringing in new fans to the mix.
I hate to argue but there is no way any of the Vault shows will be shows that were previously released as official boots by the band..
It is just counterintuitive to the Vault concept 'nuf said..
As far as there being version "out there" of some of the shows I requested and other people suggested, I agree..
But we are talking Soundboards baby.. soundboards...!
Its a bootlleg collectors thing.. you wouldn't understand unless you were a fanatic like many of us...
"This here's a REQUEST!"
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford
funny that most of the requested live shows on this thread ARE indeed available out there....
And there are good recordings out there of those shows
I'm expecting these vault shows to be the more popular shows like randalls island 96 or seattle 00 or state college. This isn't geared to us "die hard" fans. Its more so for bringing in new fans to the mix.
I hate to argue but there is no way any of the Vault shows will be shows that were previously released as official boots by the band..
It is just counterintuitive to the Vault concept 'nuf said..
As far as there being version "out there" of some of the shows I requested and other people suggested, I agree..
But we are talking Soundboards baby.. soundboards...!
Its a bootlleg collectors thing.. you wouldn't understand unless you were a fanatic like many of us...
While I do agree that we will probably see a whole bunch of shows available that never previously were, I would think that all the ones that have been available in recent years (maybe the 2000 tour, but definitely 2003 on) will be available just because they are already mixed and probably very easy to include.
Comments
I just think it's strange they (10club) didn't announce the download(s) as a perk to buying/pre-ordering the cd.... given the way we all salivate over every thing this band does!!! : )
but, whatevah... as i said, i'll buy a second copy if it means getting to download a couple of extra shows.
I thought I understood your point. using the word gay as a negative is wrong. I get it.
My point is that we have the right to say things that offend other people. they have the right to ignore it.
If you start banning words people find offensive, you are opening a can of worms. Anything will be offensive to someone.
"We're running out of beer, too?" EV 6/19/08
I’m sorry but that’s where I think you are wrong, we live in a society and no one should have the right to offend or hurt other people.
is it an unfortunate reality, yes sure, is it ok? absolutely not.
I am offended by that. please stop saying that. thank you.
"We're running out of beer, too?" EV 6/19/08
"We're running out of beer, too?" EV 6/19/08
http://www.fmqb.com/article.asp?id=1440190
All the albums will have this "eBridge" technology:
"The album is also encoded with Sony's DADC's eBridge technology allowing fans to unlock extra content.The Target release will bump users to a vault of eleven concerts from which two can be selected."
We'll also have a new t-shirt to buy ...
"An organic cotton t-shirt will also be sold at the big retailer, with proceeds going to Feeding America."
Don't you do it, too.
Exactly.
"We're running out of beer, too?" EV 6/19/08
But how would you feel if someone who is gay was standing nearby and heard you associate something "lame" with the lifestyle they were given no choice to lead?
Don't you do it, too.
I would expect them to either ignore me or realize the context I was using the word in. Cant always worry about what other people think.
"We're running out of beer, too?" EV 6/19/08
well then you are just incredibly insensitive and there is nothing that anyone can say that will change your mind about using 'gay' as an insult.
I may do the same- I may wait and see what shows are available-
No, you are just overly sensitive and people need to adjust what words they use as to not hurt your feelings.
"We're running out of beer, too?" EV 6/19/08
no, i'm not overly sensitive and my feelings have not been hurt. i am annoyed, however, that you seem to be championing using 'gay' as an insult as an exercise in free-speech. it's not about free speech, it's about you protecting your own position of power and privilege. no one is challenging your right to say what you want, but it goes both ways and everyone else has the right to point out that it's a shitty thing to say.
well then you are just incredibly insensitive and there is nothing that anyone can say that will change your mind about using 'gay' as an insult.[/quote]
the guy cannot be reached with reason.... time to let it go. we all tried.
I dont go around insulting anyone, not my style. But I will defend anyone's right to say anything. If someone says something that I find insulting or offensive, I move on and dont let it bother me. More important things to worry about.
"We're running out of beer, too?" EV 6/19/08
Do you actually know anyone who is gay? You seem to have many more preconceived notions about how gay people are than any of the so-called "insensitive" people on this board. Not all gay people are super-senitive people who can't even stand to hear the word "gay" with no respect to the context it's used without getting offended. My gay friends couldn't give two shits about some random person using gay to mean lame. They're a little more thick-skinned than that. Now if what you meant to say is if I was standing next to some hyper-sensitive gay person who got offended without even paying attention to the context it was used, then no I wouldn't care what they thought. It is a reflection of their inferrence, not my implications.
and yeah, "knock it off".
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
well then you are just incredibly insensitive and there is nothing that anyone can say that will change your mind about using 'gay' as an insult.[/quote]
the guy cannot be reached with reason.... time to let it go. we all tried.[/quote]
Seriously, don't pull the whole "We're using reason and you're not" routine... It's pretty clear that there's a fundamental difference in opinion here, and I think both sides are pretty reasonable, just different. You think that words have some sort of intrinsic value that somehow exist outside of context of usage, and some disagree with this. You're opinion is no more valid or reasonable.
Same here. It's one thing to be disappointed in his choice of language and move on. It's another to derail an entire thread with a language ettiquette lesson. Some people are really wimpy when it comes to foul language, slurs and insults. They're just words. Get over it!
Thanks for posting that, I hadn't seen that one, I had seen the other two.
i guess i just feel like if someone posted something about "being 'jewed' out of something" or mentioned 'CP time', or anything to that effect using any other slur (no matter what the intention :roll: ), there would be a lot less people defending it.
My response would have been, you dont understand the meaning of that word amongst my friends and I and I find it extremely rude and insulting for you to come over to us and basically tell us that we are rude and disrespectful people based on a private conversation that contain a word that you dont use the same way as we do. Could you kindly leave so we can get back to our conversation that you are not a part of. Thanks.
"We're running out of beer, too?" EV 6/19/08
and still jonesing for another show....
"the waiting drove me mad..."
And there are good recordings out there of those shows
I'm expecting these vault shows to be the more popular shows like randalls island 96 or seattle 00 or state college. This isn't geared to us "die hard" fans. Its more so for bringing in new fans to the mix.
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
I know it's out there but it is very poor quality.
Thats what I think too, but I would not mind if they put out some of those pre 2000 shows in better quality, or with a better mix. Or if they put out those rumored PJ shows that took place in the summer of 2007.
I hate to argue but there is no way any of the Vault shows will be shows that were previously released as official boots by the band..
It is just counterintuitive to the Vault concept 'nuf said..
As far as there being version "out there" of some of the shows I requested and other people suggested, I agree..
But we are talking Soundboards baby.. soundboards...!
Its a bootlleg collectors thing.. you wouldn't understand unless you were a fanatic like many of us...
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford
While I do agree that we will probably see a whole bunch of shows available that never previously were, I would think that all the ones that have been available in recent years (maybe the 2000 tour, but definitely 2003 on) will be available just because they are already mixed and probably very easy to include.
"We're running out of beer, too?" EV 6/19/08