In the lyrics of NOT FOR YOU it doesn't say except for Target!
Sony might have been a nesseccary avenue to get albums out..THEY ARE A RECORD COMPANY! A whole lot differant than Target!
I go way back with PJ and I always liked them for their alternative to conventional ways. Its just upsetting.
The Target deal is also a necessary avenue to get albums out. You have to understand that now Pearl Jam is their own record company. They don't have anyone like Sony to make the deals with Target and Best Buy on their behalf. They do it all.
I'm not quite sure what you would have them do...not sell the album in major retailers? They want the album to be available for purchase, and that means making deals with corporations, as they've done their entire career.
You should just be happy they only aligned themselves with one retailer for this release, instead of being in bed with EVERYONE from Best Buy to Wal-mart - like Sony was on their behalf for many many years.
Now explain the commercial. Do they have to do that?
In fact, Cameron Crowe filming a commercial to sell the new album at Target is really no different than the videos that were done for Alive and Even Flow back in the day. They were made to help sell Ten. Sony probably even paid MTV to put them on the air initially.
Why go, Animal? Foxy Mop in my tree, no way. Gods' Dice Get Right Come back amongst the waves yellow moon. https://www.instagram.com/knowcode/
In fact, Cameron Crowe filming a commercial to sell the new album at Target is really no different than the videos that were done for Alive and Even Flow back in the day. They were made to help sell Ten. Sony probably even paid MTV to put them on the air initially.
I am sorry if you don't see the differance between making a live music video for a "music station" That supposed to be about music than selling a product for Target. Huge differance!
In fact, Cameron Crowe filming a commercial to sell the new album at Target is really no different than the videos that were done for Alive and Even Flow back in the day. They were made to help sell Ten. Sony probably even paid MTV to put them on the air initially.
I am sorry if you don't see the differance between making a live music video for a "music station" That supposed to be about music than selling a product for Target. Huge differance!
Its their own product! They are doing it for them, not Target.
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I am sorry if you don't see the differance between making a live music video for a "music station" That supposed to be about music than selling a product for Target. Huge differance!
Now explain the commercial. Do they have to do that?
Did you have a problem with the Yield commercials? This isn't new territory, and it is possible that they had to do it to secure the deal they wanted with Target...who knows...
In fact, Cameron Crowe filming a commercial to sell the new album at Target is really no different than the videos that were done for Alive and Even Flow back in the day. They were made to help sell Ten. Sony probably even paid MTV to put them on the air initially.
I am sorry if you don't see the differance between making a live music video for a "music station" That supposed to be about music than selling a product for Target. Huge differance!
First off... even you had to say "supposed to be about" because we all know MTV is not about the music. Even when Grunge peaked, it wasn't about the music. Someone brought up Not For You earlier. That song is aimed at the business side of the music industry. Companies like MTV specifically. At Soldier Field in 1995 Eddie made fun of Q101 for using the line all over Chicago on their ads when the 'joke was on them because it's not for them'.
And why do you need to say selling a product? The product is fairly clear. It is called 'Backspacer'. Did you watch the Yield commercial I linked above? It's the same shit. Did you freak out like this eleven years ago?
[and there is no 'a' in difference.]
Why go, Animal? Foxy Mop in my tree, no way. Gods' Dice Get Right Come back amongst the waves yellow moon. https://www.instagram.com/knowcode/
In fact, Cameron Crowe filming a commercial to sell the new album at Target is really no different than the videos that were done for Alive and Even Flow back in the day. They were made to help sell Ten. Sony probably even paid MTV to put them on the air initially.
I am sorry if you don't see the differance between making a live music video for a "music station" That supposed to be about music than selling a product for Target. Huge differance!
there is no difference. it's the same exact thing. all this does is specify that you can buy the album at target. mtv back then was a visual representation of radio. and don't forget those are businesses. band's (most often labels) have to fork over the money to get a song on the radio/video on mtv to generate the buzz to get the album sold. and the album is still gonna be sold at independent record stores. target just happens to be the corporate location that met the terms that the band set. the fact that the band isnt on a label anymore means if they dont set a deal with a big chain store...the album becomes a lot more difficult for people in certain parts of the country to get.
i remember you...i was gonna vote for you one time...but voting isn't cool so i stayed home and got trashed on listerine.
In fact, Cameron Crowe filming a commercial to sell the new album at Target is really no different than the videos that were done for Alive and Even Flow back in the day. They were made to help sell Ten. Sony probably even paid MTV to put them on the air initially.
I am sorry if you don't see the differance between making a live music video for a "music station" That supposed to be about music than selling a product for Target. Huge differance!
You DO realize that EVERY video is an ad for their product, right?
Is this still seriously being discussed? :shock:
It makes me laugh that this debate is going on, essentially regarding whether Pearl Jam are entitled to maximize their profits. Does anyone else realize how absurd of a debate this is?
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EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I read an article about David Grohl and the Foo Fighters when their last album had dropped and he was talking about doing promos for Wal-Mart and how before they were so against it, but after the years go by you catch yourselves doing things you wouldn't dare to do in the beginning. I don't blame the guys. I just look at it as another way to promote great music. Not enough people listen to decent music anymore, and I think it will help spread the word that music is actually being made that people put the time into and it's not just being pumped out to make money. Nor is it all talentless people who use key equalizers *cough Taylor Swift cough*.
Is this still seriously being discussed? :shock:
It makes me laugh that this debate is going on, essentially regarding whether Pearl Jam are entitled to maximize their profits. Does anyone else realize how absurd of a debate this is?
Although they are ENTITLED to do that...this deal doesnt accomplish that....
IN effect, they are willingly limiting which stores can carry this album. They decided not to sell it at Walmart, K Mart, Best Buy, Costco, etc....
This deal does NOT maximize their profits....a deal with ALL of those places would do that.
Is this still seriously being discussed? :shock:
It makes me laugh that this debate is going on, essentially regarding whether Pearl Jam are entitled to maximize their profits. Does anyone else realize how absurd of a debate this is?
Although they are ENTITLED to do that...this deal doesnt accomplish that....
IN effect, they are willingly limiting which stores can carry this album. They decided not to sell it at Walmart, K Mart, Best Buy, Costco, etc....
This deal does NOT maximize their profits....a deal with ALL of those places would do that.
Hm. You're right.. I'm out of ideas. Could it have to do with not being able to meet the demand of selling at all those big-box retailers while doing this without Sony's help?
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Do people realize that the production cost of an album is often in the millions$$$$$$. Being unsigned Pearl Jam LLC. puts up the initial investment and they want to get a relatively fast return. What is the big mystery??? If people on this board do not make smart life decisions that is their business and if PJ wants to
conduct their affairs a certain way that is PJ's business.
Is this still seriously being discussed? :shock:
It makes me laugh that this debate is going on, essentially regarding whether Pearl Jam are entitled to maximize their profits. Does anyone else realize how absurd of a debate this is?
Although they are ENTITLED to do that...this deal doesnt accomplish that....
IN effect, they are willingly limiting which stores can carry this album. They decided not to sell it at Walmart, K Mart, Best Buy, Costco, etc....
This deal does NOT maximize their profits....a deal with ALL of those places would do that.
Hm. You're right.. I'm out of ideas. Could it have to do with not being able to meet the demand of selling at all those big-box retailers while doing this without Sony's help?
It is like a guarantee. That is why Best Buy got stuck with a million copies of Chinese Democracy
Like someone mentioned earlier, look at it this way..
Instead of making deals with Sony, Walmart, Best Buy, Circuit City, Kmart, Target, and so on, they are only making a deal exclusively with Target this time and handling the deal themselves.
Do people realize that the production cost of an album is often in the millions$$$$$$. Being unsigned Pearl Jam LLC. puts up the initial investment and they want to get a relatively fast return. What is the big mystery??? If people on this board do not make smart life decisions that is their business and if PJ wants to
conduct their affairs a certain way that is PJ's business.
Pearl Jam LLC can afford it. Don't worry. Stone owns his own studio. I'm tired of people around here always acting like the band is gonna be homeless and their kids will go hungry if they don't make enough money. They've got money. Don't worry. They know there is a big enough crowd out there that will buy anything they put out and they won't go broke (look at the $140-200--depending on where you bought it--Ten box set... it's an album we all already HAD and we still plunked down 10X the cost of a single CD for it and they made out just fine).
The only people losing money here are the Pearl Jam fans who have to shell out for plane tickets, hotels, and rental cars when they don't play your state more than once every 10 years. That's IF you want to see them in concert. Which unfortunately I'm passing on for this year (again). Oh yeah, and buying the album twice on Ten Club and Target (when they announce what sort of bonus Target-only material will be available, which you know it will).
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Yes! They are extremly Rich and Ed makes the biggest cut (Kim Neely). An album that does as well as Ten that alone makes you a millionare forget the huge success of VS.
That's whats confusing to me...Back in the days of ten and vs they had huge popularity (They didn't need a commercial) and didn't want the attention....now their like begging for it?
how are they " begging" for it?? not trying to start an argument, i'd just really like to know what they, as a band are doing that makes you feel like they're begging for attention? going on Conan? doing some interviews? striking a distribution deal with a big box store? seriously...i'd love some answers because i don't see anything drastically different. ok---they made a commercial. they've had commercials in the past. anyone??
Just want to ask those on this thread their feelings about the following:
1) Is selling exclusively thru Target (plus mom-n-pop stores and online) selling out?
2) Is having "Bud Light Presents Pearl Jam" selling out?
3) Is having huge screens on 2 sides of the stage which say "Verizon Wireless" selling out?
4) Is having fliers handed out at venues with PJ's photo, and "Verizon Wireless" on it selling out?
Not looking for a lecture. Just looking for a yes or no on each of the four.
1. No - strategic business alliance, burden still on the band since they've paid out of pocket to record and produce the album while retaining complete artistic control and ownership of said material and controlling distribution channels.
2. Yes - the band can afford its' current touring production while still making a more than generous net income off ticket and merchandise sales, merchandise being the significant source of income.
3. No - Verizon Wireless paid for said screens, while the band demanded the fans in attendance not be charged for text requests/comments broadcast on the screens AND not be spammed by Verizon after the concert. the screens weren't in use during the concert and were in no way involved on the production side.
4. No - strategic business alliance, the posters/fliers handed out were used to promote the live bootlegs recorded on Verizon's mobile recording studio, which made for free samples of audio/video to be uploaded for free to the fans at no cost to the band/production while giving Verizon the opportunity to demonstrate said browsing technology at the venue to the concertgoers.
Post edited by 100 Pacer on
To quote the 10C from Newsletter #8: "Please understand we have a lot of members and it is very hard to please everybody. If you are one of those unhappy people...please call 1-900-IDN-TCAR."
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
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1. No - strategic business alliance, burden still on the band since they've paid out of pocket to record and produce the album while retaining complete artistic control and ownership of said material while controlling distribution channels.
2. Yes - the band can afford its' current touring production while still making a more than generous net income off ticket and merchandise sales, merchandise being the significant source of income.
3. No - Verizon Wireless paid for said screens, while the band demanded the fans in attendance not be charged for text requests/comments broadcast on the screens AND not be spammed by Verizon after the concert. the screens weren't in use during the concert and were in no way involved on the production side.
4. No - strategic business alliance, the posters/fliers handed out were used to promote the live bootlegs recorded on Verizon's mobile recording studio, which made for free samples of audio/video to be uploaded for free to the fans at no cost to the band/production while giving Verizon the opportunity to demonstrate said browsing technology at the venue to the concertgoers.
Comments
Now explain the commercial. Do they have to do that?
How is this commercial any different than the recent ones for the re-release of Ten? Or for that matter... Check out this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzjOXidORYg
In fact, Cameron Crowe filming a commercial to sell the new album at Target is really no different than the videos that were done for Alive and Even Flow back in the day. They were made to help sell Ten. Sony probably even paid MTV to put them on the air initially.
Foxy Mop in my tree, no way.
Gods' Dice Get Right
Come back amongst the waves yellow moon.
https://www.instagram.com/knowcode/
I am sorry if you don't see the differance between making a live music video for a "music station" That supposed to be about music than selling a product for Target. Huge differance!
Its their own product! They are doing it for them, not Target.
Did you have a problem with the Yield commercials? This isn't new territory, and it is possible that they had to do it to secure the deal they wanted with Target...who knows...
PM me with any comments or suggestions for the app - or weigh in <a href="http://forums.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=167611
">here</a>.
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First off... even you had to say "supposed to be about" because we all know MTV is not about the music. Even when Grunge peaked, it wasn't about the music. Someone brought up Not For You earlier. That song is aimed at the business side of the music industry. Companies like MTV specifically. At Soldier Field in 1995 Eddie made fun of Q101 for using the line all over Chicago on their ads when the 'joke was on them because it's not for them'.
And why do you need to say selling a product? The product is fairly clear. It is called 'Backspacer'. Did you watch the Yield commercial I linked above? It's the same shit. Did you freak out like this eleven years ago?
[and there is no 'a' in difference.]
Foxy Mop in my tree, no way.
Gods' Dice Get Right
Come back amongst the waves yellow moon.
https://www.instagram.com/knowcode/
That was awesome! I actually went to Target today and bought a gigantic pack of toilet paper (Charmin mega rolls on sale)...
Funny thing about the Yield commercial is that people thought THAT was selling out back in the day. Pearl Jam on a TV commercial?
The most important thing about this thread (since everything else has already all been said) that no one has mentioned is SPONSORSHIP.
With an -or at the end of sponsor.
Don't you remember the "Sponsored by No One" tour?? Spelling, people.
New Mexico Pearl Jam Fans (New Mexico, USA) on Facebook!
Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever even heard my name.
I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit,
And then you bought one."
wait, wrong band...
there is no difference. it's the same exact thing. all this does is specify that you can buy the album at target. mtv back then was a visual representation of radio. and don't forget those are businesses. band's (most often labels) have to fork over the money to get a song on the radio/video on mtv to generate the buzz to get the album sold. and the album is still gonna be sold at independent record stores. target just happens to be the corporate location that met the terms that the band set. the fact that the band isnt on a label anymore means if they dont set a deal with a big chain store...the album becomes a lot more difficult for people in certain parts of the country to get.
which is a laugh, because Sony sponsored the whole thing.
PM me with any comments or suggestions for the app - or weigh in <a href="http://forums.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=167611
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if you really understood what it means, then you wouldnt be upset with it.
Nuclear fission
You DO realize that EVERY video is an ad for their product, right?
Why have they done any video?
Nuclear fission
It makes me laugh that this debate is going on, essentially regarding whether Pearl Jam are entitled to maximize their profits. Does anyone else realize how absurd of a debate this is?
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Although they are ENTITLED to do that...this deal doesnt accomplish that....
IN effect, they are willingly limiting which stores can carry this album. They decided not to sell it at Walmart, K Mart, Best Buy, Costco, etc....
This deal does NOT maximize their profits....a deal with ALL of those places would do that.
Nuclear fission
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
conduct their affairs a certain way that is PJ's business.
It is like a guarantee. That is why Best Buy got stuck with a million copies of Chinese Democracy
Instead of making deals with Sony, Walmart, Best Buy, Circuit City, Kmart, Target, and so on, they are only making a deal exclusively with Target this time and handling the deal themselves.
Pearl Jam LLC can afford it. Don't worry. Stone owns his own studio. I'm tired of people around here always acting like the band is gonna be homeless and their kids will go hungry if they don't make enough money. They've got money. Don't worry. They know there is a big enough crowd out there that will buy anything they put out and they won't go broke (look at the $140-200--depending on where you bought it--Ten box set... it's an album we all already HAD and we still plunked down 10X the cost of a single CD for it and they made out just fine).
The only people losing money here are the Pearl Jam fans who have to shell out for plane tickets, hotels, and rental cars when they don't play your state more than once every 10 years.
New Mexico Pearl Jam Fans (New Mexico, USA) on Facebook!
That's whats confusing to me...Back in the days of ten and vs they had huge popularity (They didn't need a commercial) and didn't want the attention....now their like begging for it?
how are they " begging" for it?? not trying to start an argument, i'd just really like to know what they, as a band are doing that makes you feel like they're begging for attention? going on Conan? doing some interviews? striking a distribution deal with a big box store? seriously...i'd love some answers because i don't see anything drastically different. ok---they made a commercial. they've had commercials in the past. anyone??
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
1) Is selling exclusively thru Target (plus mom-n-pop stores and online) selling out?
2) Is having "Bud Light Presents Pearl Jam" selling out?
3) Is having huge screens on 2 sides of the stage which say "Verizon Wireless" selling out?
4) Is having fliers handed out at venues with PJ's photo, and "Verizon Wireless" on it selling out?
Not looking for a lecture. Just looking for a yes or no on each of the four.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
1. No - strategic business alliance, burden still on the band since they've paid out of pocket to record and produce the album while retaining complete artistic control and ownership of said material and controlling distribution channels.
2. Yes - the band can afford its' current touring production while still making a more than generous net income off ticket and merchandise sales, merchandise being the significant source of income.
3. No - Verizon Wireless paid for said screens, while the band demanded the fans in attendance not be charged for text requests/comments broadcast on the screens AND not be spammed by Verizon after the concert. the screens weren't in use during the concert and were in no way involved on the production side.
4. No - strategic business alliance, the posters/fliers handed out were used to promote the live bootlegs recorded on Verizon's mobile recording studio, which made for free samples of audio/video to be uploaded for free to the fans at no cost to the band/production while giving Verizon the opportunity to demonstrate said browsing technology at the venue to the concertgoers.
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore - 2025: Hollywood X2, Atlanta 2, Nashville X2, Pittsburgh X2
well said.
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
yes to all four. But I stand by the position that they sold out the second they signed with Sony, and I don't think that's a bad thing at all.
PM me with any comments or suggestions for the app - or weigh in <a href="http://forums.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=167611
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1) what does this have to do with the music?
2) what does this have to do with the music?
3) what does this have to do with the music?
4) what does this have to do with the music?
am i the only one that got into this band because of their amazing music and not their bullshit political stances? :roll: