*****The God Bless America Thread******

WaveCameCrashin

This year instead of buying gifts my family and I are discussing going on a vacation after christmas like a trip to the mountains something.
I come from a lower middle class family and we have never done anything besides exchange gifts. So why not just draw names and buy one present for that person and rent a house in the mountains for a 4 day weekend or something. Also I live in the south so we don't get snow.

Jeanwah

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

JR8805 wrote:

I'm for getting rid of Christmas for myself as a shopping excess excuse. In fact, in our family we've done so.

I'm also for getting rid of this consumption-oriented national holiday. It's become more about consumerism and less about religion, togetherness, kindness and love, put together, by far. I call it the "obligation to spend money" holiday.

It all starts with you. My whole family agreed on no presents (except for the little kids), and it was beautiful. It may seem like a ballsy idea, but you have no idea how many of them are going to love it. Save your money, save your time, love your family without pressure from the TV telling you to BUY BUY BUY NOW NOW NOW!

Actually, I've been trying for years to get my family on board. One year, I gave my siblings gift certificates for the charity of their choice. They all looked at me cross-eyed and threw them away (good thing my money went to a general fund). Last year, my daughter and I made gifts and insisted that my siblings not expect my parents to give them gifts as we're all adults. While they did the latter, they were miffed at my small yet thoughtful homemade gifts to them. You can only get so far with materialistic family members unfortunately. :roll:

soulsinging

Jeanwah wrote:

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

It all starts with you. My whole family agreed on no presents (except for the little kids), and it was beautiful. It may seem like a ballsy idea, but you have no idea how many of them are going to love it. Save your money, save your time, love your family without pressure from the TV telling you to BUY BUY BUY NOW NOW NOW!

Actually, I've been trying for years to get my family on board. One year, I gave my siblings gift certificates for the charity of their choice. They all looked at me cross-eyed and threw them away (good thing my money went to a general fund). Last year, my daughter and I made gifts and insisted that my siblings not expect my parents to give them gifts as we're all adults. While they did the latter, they were miffed at my small yet thoughtful homemade gifts to them. You can only get so far with materialistic family members unfortunately. :roll:

I think you're better off with no gift than gifts like that. The charity thing makes people feel guilty and they resent you for it and probably think you're being condescending (like in that episode of Arrested Development). The latter... the sentiment's nice, but it's almost always something you have no idea what to do with after you receive it At least if you do nothing, you're just an Ebenezer Scrooge.

I would just as soon skip Christmas myself. It's such a time drain trying to buy gifts and cards and whatnot.

Cosmo

jlew24asu wrote:

yea I'm fine. truth be told, I dont care much for the song either. but I really could care less that its played and find it funny and even sad that some take offense to a patriotic song being sung at a baseball game.

but what really erked me about your comment was the gross exaggeration with it. do assholes exist everywhere? yes. but I think its safer to assume that the majority of people will not give a flying fuck if someone decides to sit during the song. you implied that some sort of attack was likely. just not true at all.

...
And I don't really care either way about the song. I was just saying that there is a strong possibility that if you do not do as others think you should... they will let you know. I never meant a mob would attack anyone who sits... but, there is a good possibility that a drunk asshole would feel you were disrespecting the nation, our troops, his god and would let you know about it by hurling his half eaten hot dog at the back of your head.
And yes.. the majority of people don't care... just like the majority of people don't smash windshields or set dumpsters on fire after the Lakers Championship... but, there ARE assholes out there who would. I would much rather avoid any interactions with these stupid fucking assholes who think militarism, songs and magnets equatre to Patriotism... so, I stand up with the rest of the crowd to avoid being the exception.
Sheep? Sure... but, I really don't want to risk a shitty confrontation over nothing and would rather just enjoy a nice evening at the ballpark with my friends.

Jeanwah

soulsinging wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

It all starts with you. My whole family agreed on no presents (except for the little kids), and it was beautiful. It may seem like a ballsy idea, but you have no idea how many of them are going to love it. Save your money, save your time, love your family without pressure from the TV telling you to BUY BUY BUY NOW NOW NOW!

Actually, I've been trying for years to get my family on board. One year, I gave my siblings gift certificates for the charity of their choice. They all looked at me cross-eyed and threw them away (good thing my money went to a general fund). Last year, my daughter and I made gifts and insisted that my siblings not expect my parents to give them gifts as we're all adults. While they did the latter, they were miffed at my small yet thoughtful homemade gifts to them. You can only get so far with materialistic family members unfortunately. :roll:

I think you're better off with no gift than gifts like that. The charity thing makes people feel guilty and they resent you for it and probably think you're being condescending (like in that episode of Arrested Development). The latter... the sentiment's nice, but it's almost always something you have no idea what to do with after you receive it At least if you do nothing, you're just an Ebenezer Scrooge.

I would just as soon skip Christmas myself. It's such a time drain trying to buy gifts and cards and whatnot.

Giving a gift of charity makes people feel guilty? What? A gift to whatever cause they feel strong about it would make you feel guilty? I have a daughter who has a disability. Giving to meaningful causes is close to my heart (obviously not my sisters' though...says a lot about them...), and if it just makes you feel awkward, I'd suggest you go spend some time with some less fortunate people. It would change your mind.

soulsinging

Jeanwah wrote:

Giving a gift of charity makes people feel guilty? What? A gift to whatever cause they feel strong about it would make you feel guilty? I have a daughter who has a disability. Giving to meaningful causes is close to my heart (obviously not my sisters' though...says a lot about them...), and if it just makes you feel awkward, I'd suggest you go spend some time with some less fortunate people. It would change your mind.

Not me necessarily. But I know many people that would think it's kind of "showing off." Like "I'm so above your consumerism and I'M donating to charity, so YOU all should too." It's like the people that make a big deal about their community involvement or religious affiliation, it seems kind heavy-handed. I'm not saying you're wrong for doing it, I'm saying I can see how it would make people feel uncomfortable or like you're disapproving of them... and shit, it's true because here you are passing judgment on them for being selfish and consumerist and whatever else for just wanting to enjoy their celebration with family and forget about the world's problems for a bit.

Cosmo

Jeanwah wrote:

Actually, I've been trying for years to get my family on board. One year, I gave my siblings gift certificates for the charity of their choice. They all looked at me cross-eyed and threw them away (good thing my money went to a general fund). Last year, my daughter and I made gifts and insisted that my siblings not expect my parents to give them gifts as we're all adults. While they did the latter, they were miffed at my small yet thoughtful homemade gifts to them. You can only get so far with materialistic family members unfortunately. :roll:

...
A few years ago... I suggested that our family quit buying Christmas presents just because the calendar and Mall store windows told us to. Instead, i suggested that we just 'buy for the kids'... because that's what Christmas is about, right? Kids. And instead of sitting around while our mom was in the kitchen all day... we just bought one of those restaurant dinners so she could sit around and visit... because that's also what Christmas is all about.... family, right?
It is NOT a culture war, as those cable t.v. blowhards tell us it is... it's more about reducing the stress of malls and bills and buying crap that people don't need. The last thing I want for Christmas is my little sister fighting crowds at the mall, stressing out because she is looking for a present for me. She should be at home, with her daughter... making Christmas cookies or something.
We can STILL have Christmas... but it's more about the season and the good things. And the last thing I can imagine Jesus wanting for us ismaterial crap given in His name.

gwfb

So...i'm not american and i'm atheist and these are what i like from America:

Noam Chomsky
Howard Zinn
The Wobblies
DIY zine and your prolific underground scene
Ian Mckaye
The Brooklyn Bridge
The Yosemite National Park

dunkman

Jeanwah wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

I think you're better off with no gift than gifts like that. The charity thing makes people feel guilty and they resent you for it and probably think you're being condescending (like in that episode of Arrested Development). The latter... the sentiment's nice, but it's almost always something you have no idea what to do with after you receive it At least if you do nothing, you're just an Ebenezer Scrooge.

I would just as soon skip Christmas myself. It's such a time drain trying to buy gifts and cards and whatnot.

Giving a gift of charity makes people feel guilty? What? A gift to whatever cause they feel strong about it would make you feel guilty? I have a daughter who has a disability. Giving to meaningful causes is close to my heart (obviously not my sisters' though...says a lot about them...), and if it just makes you feel awkward, I'd suggest you go spend some time with some less fortunate people. It would change your mind.

says a lot about them? sorry, no offence intended, but your above post seems quite pious. Surely just one day of the year you can buy a loved one a nice inexpensive heartfelt gift instead of giving them a charity token or whatever it is you gave them. You're forcing your belief upon them. Because giving to meaningful causes is close to your heart then you that's what you should do... but clearly your sister would rather have a gift and i 100% understand that. Its not materialistic at all... its the one time of the year that i think we should give a guilt-free gift to a loved one... after the 25th of Dec if you want to send an African tribe 6 chickens then thats up to you... and good on you for doing that... I give a set amount to Save The Children every single month... we should all try and do a little bit... but not in the name of someone who doesnt want you to...

Jeanwah

soulsinging wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

Giving a gift of charity makes people feel guilty? What? A gift to whatever cause they feel strong about it would make you feel guilty? I have a daughter who has a disability. Giving to meaningful causes is close to my heart (obviously not my sisters' though...says a lot about them...), and if it just makes you feel awkward, I'd suggest you go spend some time with some less fortunate people. It would change your mind.

Not me necessarily. But I know many people that would think it's kind of "showing off." Like "I'm so above your consumerism and I'M donating to charity, so YOU all should too." It's like the people that make a big deal about their community involvement or religious affiliation, it seems kind heavy-handed. I'm not saying you're wrong for doing it, I'm saying I can see how it would make people feel uncomfortable or like you're disapproving of them... and shit, it's true because here you are passing judgment on them for being selfish and consumerist and whatever else for just wanting to enjoy their celebration with family and forget about the world's problems for a bit.

Oh, please. you sound so arrogant. The point is that Christmas has become a fruitless "give me more STUFF" holiday. Obviously you can't see past the fact that giving others the gift of giving to others something other than an object would put you out. Get over yourself, SS. You'd rather think about "how it makes you look" rather than the good deed you're doing for others. Purely selfish thinking on your part.

decides2dream

dunkman wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

I think you're better off with no gift than gifts like that. The charity thing makes people feel guilty and they resent you for it and probably think you're being condescending (like in that episode of Arrested Development). The latter... the sentiment's nice, but it's almost always something you have no idea what to do with after you receive it At least if you do nothing, you're just an Ebenezer Scrooge.

I would just as soon skip Christmas myself. It's such a time drain trying to buy gifts and cards and whatnot.

Giving a gift of charity makes people feel guilty? What? A gift to whatever cause they feel strong about it would make you feel guilty? I have a daughter who has a disability. Giving to meaningful causes is close to my heart (obviously not my sisters' though...says a lot about them...), and if it just makes you feel awkward, I'd suggest you go spend some time with some less fortunate people. It would change your mind.

says a lot about them? sorry, no offence intended, but your above post seems quite pious. Surely just one day of the year you can buy a loved one a nice inexpensive heartfelt gift instead of giving them a charity token or whatever it is you gave them. You're forcing your belief upon them. Because giving to meaningful causes is close to your heart then you that's what you should do... but clearly your sister would rather have a gift and i 100% understand that. Its not materialistic at all... its the one time of the year that i think we should give a guilt-free gift to a loved one... after the 25th of Dec if you want to send an African tribe 6 chickens then thats up to you... and good on you for doing that... I give a set amount to Save The Children every single month... we should all try and do a little bit... but not in the name of someone who doesnt want you to...

that made me laugh....


and yea, i agree...i give my mother an annual christmas gift that is actually a donation to charity in her name. i try to choose things i know she would support/believe in. i do so b/c i know she doesn't need or want more 'stuff'.....and i know she truly appreciates it. however, i do not do this for anyone else, b/c some could actually use a gift or simply appreicate a well thought out gift for THEM - my sister LOVEs to get gifts, and really...how often, especially as an adult....do you get gifts? usually 2x a year if that.....and still others - most really - give no gifts at all....b/c yea.....most of us don't need more 'stuff'...certainly don't need to give stuff to show you care, nor do i have to make a donation in your name either. i figure most people give to charities they believe in and want to support, and i do the same.....they don't need me to make a donation in their name. there is no one right way to celebrate any holiday....just in ways that are meaningful to you and your family.



btw - i have given my mom the baby chicks for african women...she thought it was great.

soulsinging

Jeanwah wrote:

Oh, please. you sound so arrogant. The point is that Christmas has become a fruitless "give me more STUFF" holiday. Obviously you can't see past the fact that giving others the gift of giving to others something other than an object would put you out. Get over yourself, SS. You'd rather think about "how it makes you look" rather than the good deed you're doing for others. Purely selfish thinking on your part.

So what? That's their problem, not yours.

I couldn't care less about giving or receiving gifts. I've argued with my family for years about skipping the whole gifting thing, because I think it's a pain. But what it comes down to is that that's what they want to do, and Christmas is about THEM and giving something THEY will appreciate, not what YOU think they SHOULD appreciate. It isn't about me wanting more stuff, it's about me wanting to do something that shows my family how much I appreciate them by making them happy. You're giving them a gift that makes YOU happy and telling them that they are bad people if it doesn't make them happy too. That's why the gift is a slap in the face to them. You don't care about what they want or appreciate them for who they are, your whole gift is about telling them that they're petty and selfish and trying to change who they are to something you think is better. And yet you call me arrogant.

Like I said, I'm willing to bet they'd be happier getting no gift from you at all, just your company at the family gathering, than they would be getting a "gift" that reeks of your judgments about how shallow they are... one that says "I know you all are selfish consumers that just want stuff, but IIIIIII am giving the gift of charity to needy people and I'm going to force you to do the same."

JaneNY

There's probably a happy medium in here somewhere. Certain people who have everything they need or want, and can afford to buy whatever they want might appreciate charity given in their name, but that's not everyone. There is someone who does little nice things for me, (like decorate the planter in front of my business), on her own, not by request to me, and is VERY charity and community oriented, so rather than giving her a trinket that she won't want (she's brought back to me things like water bottles before, that I'd given her previously), I mail her a check for $20 or $25 with the name blank for 'the charity of her choice' as a show of appreciation together with a thank you note. I know she'll like that because that's how she is. Not everyone is that way though. Bringing it back to the topic, this woman is definitely something good about America. (And her sons like Pearl Jam too)

callen

tybird wrote:

Woodchuck Hard Apple Cider
Smokey Mountains National Park
Primus
The writings of Robert E. Howard, Howard Zinn, Robert McCammon
Alaska
Dauphin Island, Alabama during Spring or Fall bird migration
Frosty Root Beer
My lovely wife
Grand Teton National Park
The dance and calls of Sandhill Cranes
D.C. Comics
Drive-by Truckers
Christy Canyon

Christy Canyon.....you da man..

RW81233

How about we change this to a "This land is my land" thread so that it can include the leftist bent that most of us (me very included) would like to espouse.

gimmesometruth27

RW81233 wrote:

How about we change this to a "This land is my land" thread so that it can include the leftist bent that most of us (me very included) would like to espouse.

i like this idea but then this thread would devolve into a cyper chest thumping debate about whose version and idea of "land" is the best and why.

RW81233

true but hasn't that already happened?

LikeAnOcean

I love Chicago.. screw the rest of the country. :P

Cosmo

RW81233 wrote:

true but hasn't that already happened?

...
As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there
And that sign said - no tress passin'
But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!
Now that side was made for you and me!

This land is your land, this land is my land
From California, to the New York Island
From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters
This land was made for you and me

In the squares of the city - In the shadow of the steeple
Near the relief office - I see my people
And some are grumblin' and some are wonderin'
If this land's still made for you and me.

gwfb

Cosmo wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

true but hasn't that already happened?

...
As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there
And that sign said - no tress passin'
But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!
Now that side was made for you and me!

This land is your land, this land is my land
From California, to the New York Island
From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters
This land was made for you and me

In the squares of the city - In the shadow of the steeple
Near the relief office - I see my people
And some are grumblin' and some are wonderin'
If this land's still made for you and me.

Heard in Celtic Park ( Home of the best soccer/football team in the world )

This land is your land, this land is my land
From the northern highlands to the western islands
From the hills of Kerry to the streets of (Free) Derry
This land was made for you and me