Personally, I don't get why it's a huge political issue, because of the mere fact that it will unfortunately happen (and be legal) regardless of who is elected.
I don't get why some pro-life people vote solely on a candidates abortion stance, when they've elected pro life people again and again, and abortions have never been outlawed or reduced by anything that they've ever done in office.
Your last statement is not entirely true - the last wave of conservatism did manage to outlaw late-term abortions and they also cut funding to groups like Planned Parenthood. However, your main point is correct. Republicans in general, once elected, do not push the issue of abortion. There has never been a serious drive to overturn Roe v Wade. I believe this is because they know the social and economic consequences of outlawing abortion. Unwanted births increase poverty and crime - it's as simple as that. Politicians are much smarter than they are sincere (which is not to say they are very smart). The elite in the Republican Party fully support abortion - I can't really prove that, but it makes perfect sense. Sure, Joe Republican from the 3rd district of Oklahoma may really be upset about abortion, and the party bosses need sincere politicians like him to keep the myth of their "Pro-Life" stance going, but it seems naive to me to think Roe v Wade will ever be overturned. Banning late-term abortion was more about politics than it was about a true concern for the unborn. It was just a little bit of red meat to throw to the pro-life voters. The number of abortions that have been banned because of it are a tiny fraction of the overall number.
Personally, the fact that millions of abortions are performed every year doesn't really bother me. I don't know if I could, if I were a woman, have an abortion, but to me it's not the same as murder. A fetus is not a person. If abortion = murder, then there are a whole lot of murderers in our midst.
Personally, I don't get why it's a huge political issue, because of the mere fact that it will unfortunately happen (and be legal) regardless of who is elected.
I don't get why some pro-life people vote solely on a candidates abortion stance, when they've elected pro life people again and again, and abortions have never been outlawed or reduced by anything that they've ever done in office.
Your last statement is not entirely true - the last wave of conservatism did manage to outlaw late-term abortions and they also cut funding to groups like Planned Parenthood. However, your main point is correct. Republicans in general, once elected, do not push the issue of abortion. There has never been a serious drive to overturn Roe v Wade. I believe this is because they know the social and economic consequences of outlawing abortion. Unwanted births increase poverty and crime - it's as simple as that. Politicians are much smarter than they are sincere (which is not to say they are very smart). The elite in the Republican Party fully support abortion - I can't really prove that, but it makes perfect sense. Sure, Joe Republican from the 3rd district of Oklahoma may really be upset about abortion, and the party bosses need sincere politicians like him to keep the myth of their "Pro-Life" stance going, but it seems naive to me to think Roe v Wade will ever be overturned. Banning late-term abortion was more about politics than it was about a true concern for the unborn. It was just a little bit of red meat to throw to the pro-life voters. The number of abortions that have been banned because of it are a tiny fraction of the overall number.
Personally, the fact that millions of abortions are performed every year doesn't really bother me. I don't know if I could, if I were a woman, have an abortion, but to me it's not the same as murder. A fetus is not a person. If abortion = murder, then there are a whole lot of murderers in our midst.
I basically agree with what you said, except for 2 things:
1. They didn't outlaw late-term abortion; they only outlawed one particular way to perform it - the one which would incite the most outrage from the general public & get them the most support. So they haven't really reduced abortion at all - just made it less safe.
2. I still think it's important that we not become complacent about Roe v. Wade.
Regarding your last point, I wish people realized just how many so-called "murderers" were in their midst. They are our mothers, sisters, aunts, grandmothers, doctors, friends, etc.
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Your last statement is not entirely true - the last wave of conservatism did manage to outlaw late-term abortions and they also cut funding to groups like Planned Parenthood. However, your main point is correct. Republicans in general, once elected, do not push the issue of abortion. There has never been a serious drive to overturn Roe v Wade. I believe this is because they know the social and economic consequences of outlawing abortion. Unwanted births increase poverty and crime - it's as simple as that. Politicians are much smarter than they are sincere (which is not to say they are very smart). The elite in the Republican Party fully support abortion - I can't really prove that, but it makes perfect sense. Sure, Joe Republican from the 3rd district of Oklahoma may really be upset about abortion, and the party bosses need sincere politicians like him to keep the myth of their "Pro-Life" stance going, but it seems naive to me to think Roe v Wade will ever be overturned. Banning late-term abortion was more about politics than it was about a true concern for the unborn. It was just a little bit of red meat to throw to the pro-life voters. The number of abortions that have been banned because of it are a tiny fraction of the overall number.
Personally, the fact that millions of abortions are performed every year doesn't really bother me. I don't know if I could, if I were a woman, have an abortion, but to me it's not the same as murder. A fetus is not a person. If abortion = murder, then there are a whole lot of murderers in our midst.
I basically agree with what you said, except for 2 things:
1. They didn't outlaw late-term abortion; they only outlawed one particular way to perform it - the one which would incite the most outrage from the general public & get them the most support. So they haven't really reduced abortion at all - just made it less safe.
2. I still think it's important that we not become complacent about Roe v. Wade.
Regarding your last point, I wish people realized just how many so-called "murderers" were in their midst. They are our mothers, sisters, aunts, grandmothers, doctors, friends, etc.
That being said those who believe in Pro-Life if you found out a friend or family member has had an abortion, do you then think completely different of them? Also do you consider them to be *murderers* too?
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Personally, I don't get why it's a huge political issue, because of the mere fact that it will unfortunately happen (and be legal) regardless of who is elected.
I don't get why some pro-life people vote solely on a candidates abortion stance, when they've elected pro life people again and again, and abortions have never been outlawed or reduced by anything that they've ever done in office.
Your last statement is not entirely true - the last wave of conservatism did manage to outlaw late-term abortions and they also cut funding to groups like Planned Parenthood. However, your main point is correct. Republicans in general, once elected, do not push the issue of abortion. There has never been a serious drive to overturn Roe v Wade. I believe this is because they know the social and economic consequences of outlawing abortion. Unwanted births increase poverty and crime - it's as simple as that. Politicians are much smarter than they are sincere (which is not to say they are very smart). The elite in the Republican Party fully support abortion - I can't really prove that, but it makes perfect sense. Sure, Joe Republican from the 3rd district of Oklahoma may really be upset about abortion, and the party bosses need sincere politicians like him to keep the myth of their "Pro-Life" stance going, but it seems naive to me to think Roe v Wade will ever be overturned. Banning late-term abortion was more about politics than it was about a true concern for the unborn. It was just a little bit of red meat to throw to the pro-life voters. The number of abortions that have been banned because of it are a tiny fraction of the overall number.
Personally, the fact that millions of abortions are performed every year doesn't really bother me. I don't know if I could, if I were a woman, have an abortion, but to me it's not the same as murder. A fetus is not a person. If abortion = murder, then there are a whole lot of murderers in our midst.
I basically agree with what you said, except for 2 things:
1. They didn't outlaw late-term abortion; they only outlawed one particular way to perform it - the one which would incite the most outrage from the general public & get them the most support. So they haven't really reduced abortion at all - just made it less safe.
2. I still think it's important that we not become complacent about Roe v. Wade.
Regarding your last point, I wish people realized just how many so-called "murderers" were in their midst. They are our mothers, sisters, aunts, grandmothers, doctors, friends, etc.
Thanks for correcting me on that with your first point. I was trying to think of another way to say "partial-birth abortion", because that term is so biased sounding, and then I went too far.
As for your second point, I agree. I can't say it's a big issue for me, but it's good to know where you stand and not shy away from it.
Regarding your last point, I wish people realized just how many so-called "murderers" were in their midst. They are our mothers, sisters, aunts, grandmothers, doctors, friends, etc.
That being said those who believe in Pro-Life if you found out a friend or family member has had an abortion, do you then think completely different of them? Also do you consider them to be *murderers* too?
Peace
I obviously can't speak for the so-called "Pro-Life" perspective, but I would hope this knowledge would help people realize that those who have (and/or perform and/or support the right to have) abortions aren't necessarily evil or bad people, but instead that it's a complicated, non-black-or-white, issue/decision, both politically & personally.
I really hope some folks who aren't pro-choice answer your question though.
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Regarding your last point, I wish people realized just how many so-called "murderers" were in their midst. They are our mothers, sisters, aunts, grandmothers, doctors, friends, etc.
That being said those who believe in Pro-Life if you found out a friend or family member has had an abortion, do you then think completely different of them? Also do you consider them to be *murderers* too?
Peace
I obviously can't speak for the so-called "Pro-Life" perspective, but I would hope this knowledge would help people realize that those who have (and/or perform and/or support the right to have) abortions aren't necessarily evil or bad people, but instead that it's a complicated, non-black-or-white, issue/decision, both politically & personally.
I really hope some folks who aren't pro-choice answer your question though.
I hope they do cause I am one of them who had to go through an abortion more than once. Also I don't think of myself as an evil or bad person., far from it
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I hope they do cause I am one of them who had to go through an abortion more than once. Also I don't think of myself as an evil or bad person., far from it
Peace
Wait - are you a man or a woman? I always thought you were a man (in which case your abortion experiences would still be valid, IMO). But now I'm a little confused and curious to get it straight. Either way, you still have always struck me as being far from being an evil or bad person.
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
I hope they do cause I am one of them who had to go through an abortion more than once. Also I don't think of myself as an evil or bad person., far from it
Peace
Wait - are you a man or a woman? I always thought you were a man (in which case your abortion experiences would still be valid, IMO). But now I'm a little confused and curious to get it straight. Either way, you still have always struck me as being far from being an evil or bad person.
I had a feeling that post would cause some confusion however I'm a male. One abortion through my girlfriend in college her parents basically gave her no choice.The other a friend contemplated suicide or an abortion. I helped her through it and stayed with her sometime after she still is thankful how I helped her in her dire straits 25 years ago. They were not pleasant occasions by any means but the women who had them seem to be comfortable with the decision that was made.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I had a feeling that post would cause some confusion however I'm a male. One abortion through my girlfriend in college her parents basically gave her no choice.The other a friend contemplated suicide or an abortion. I helped her through it and stayed with her sometime after she still is thankful how I helped her in her dire straits 25 years ago. They were not pleasant occasions by any means but the women who had them seem to be comfortable with the decision that was made.
Peace
I figured you meant something like that. Thanks for clearing that up! I'm sorry you and your friend & girlfriend had to go through those experiences.
as I said, people are free to feel what they want on abortion, I just find it pretty odd. What thought process rationalizes murdering people for the sake of the cause?
Getting so worked up over this issue that you go and murder an abortion doctor? I dont get it
Some people are fucking crazy.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
as I said, people are free to feel what they want on abortion, I just find it pretty odd. What thought process rationalizes murdering people for the sake of the cause?
Getting so worked up over this issue that you go and murder an abortion doctor? I dont get it
Some people are fucking crazy.
that's about as simple as it gets. you have to try and keep in mind that as shocking and sickening as dr tillers death was, thankfully it's not a regular occurrence. it was the act of a crazy man.
Cause women only care about themselves.They make the final decision to spread there legs when the guy has no condom.So women I dont want to hear that shit it takes 2 .You make the final choice to have sex.By the way I'm the father of 6 with the same woman I have been married since 1985.So make better choices.
...
A Question: Of your 6 kids... how many are daughters?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I belive the one word would be "Life"...because one clearly and scientifically exists. I guess it just depends on when people consider a fetus a human, if ever.
I belive the one word would be "Life"...because one clearly and scientifically exists. I guess it just depends on when people consider a fetus a human, if ever.
I belive the one word would be "Life"...because one clearly and scientifically exists. I guess it just depends on when people consider a fetus a human, if ever.
An acorn is alive... but it's not an oak tree.
OMG!
:shock:
*chills*
really good chills....it's like you are channeling hippiemom. she made an excellent arguement years ago using that same analogy. bit more detailed to truly drive home the pro-choice idea....but in a nutshell, that was/is it.
the possibility of a human being is NOT a human being.
possessing human DNA, alone, does not a person make.
fertilized eggs are pushed out of a woman's body quite often and naturally, and no one is even aware, least of all the woman who's body it occurs within. it is estimated that the majority of sexually active women have t least one miscarriage, aka spontaneous abortion, at least once in their lifetime, unknowingly. it normally would happen so early in the cyce that she simply would be unaware.
Comments
Your last statement is not entirely true - the last wave of conservatism did manage to outlaw late-term abortions and they also cut funding to groups like Planned Parenthood. However, your main point is correct. Republicans in general, once elected, do not push the issue of abortion. There has never been a serious drive to overturn Roe v Wade. I believe this is because they know the social and economic consequences of outlawing abortion. Unwanted births increase poverty and crime - it's as simple as that. Politicians are much smarter than they are sincere (which is not to say they are very smart). The elite in the Republican Party fully support abortion - I can't really prove that, but it makes perfect sense. Sure, Joe Republican from the 3rd district of Oklahoma may really be upset about abortion, and the party bosses need sincere politicians like him to keep the myth of their "Pro-Life" stance going, but it seems naive to me to think Roe v Wade will ever be overturned. Banning late-term abortion was more about politics than it was about a true concern for the unborn. It was just a little bit of red meat to throw to the pro-life voters. The number of abortions that have been banned because of it are a tiny fraction of the overall number.
Personally, the fact that millions of abortions are performed every year doesn't really bother me. I don't know if I could, if I were a woman, have an abortion, but to me it's not the same as murder. A fetus is not a person. If abortion = murder, then there are a whole lot of murderers in our midst.
I basically agree with what you said, except for 2 things:
1. They didn't outlaw late-term abortion; they only outlawed one particular way to perform it - the one which would incite the most outrage from the general public & get them the most support. So they haven't really reduced abortion at all - just made it less safe.
2. I still think it's important that we not become complacent about Roe v. Wade.
Regarding your last point, I wish people realized just how many so-called "murderers" were in their midst. They are our mothers, sisters, aunts, grandmothers, doctors, friends, etc.
That being said those who believe in Pro-Life if you found out a friend or family member has had an abortion, do you then think completely different of them? Also do you consider them to be *murderers* too?
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Thanks for correcting me on that with your first point. I was trying to think of another way to say "partial-birth abortion", because that term is so biased sounding, and then I went too far.
As for your second point, I agree. I can't say it's a big issue for me, but it's good to know where you stand and not shy away from it.
I obviously can't speak for the so-called "Pro-Life" perspective, but I would hope this knowledge would help people realize that those who have (and/or perform and/or support the right to have) abortions aren't necessarily evil or bad people, but instead that it's a complicated, non-black-or-white, issue/decision, both politically & personally.
I really hope some folks who aren't pro-choice answer your question though.
I hope they do cause I am one of them who had to go through an abortion more than once. Also I don't think of myself as an evil or bad person., far from it
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Wait - are you a man or a woman? I always thought you were a man (in which case your abortion experiences would still be valid, IMO). But now I'm a little confused and curious to get it straight. Either way, you still have always struck me as being far from being an evil or bad person.
I had a feeling that post would cause some confusion however I'm a male. One abortion through my girlfriend in college her parents basically gave her no choice.The other a friend contemplated suicide or an abortion. I helped her through it and stayed with her sometime after she still is thankful how I helped her in her dire straits 25 years ago. They were not pleasant occasions by any means but the women who had them seem to be comfortable with the decision that was made.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I figured you meant something like that. Thanks for clearing that up!
Some people are fucking crazy.
for the least they could possibly do
A Question: Of your 6 kids... how many are daughters?
Hail, Hail!!!
I belive the one word would be "Life"...because one clearly and scientifically exists. I guess it just depends on when people consider a fetus a human, if ever.
An acorn is alive... but it's not an oak tree.
OMG!
:shock:
*chills*
really good chills....it's like you are channeling hippiemom. she made an excellent arguement years ago using that same analogy. bit more detailed to truly drive home the pro-choice idea....but in a nutshell, that was/is it.
the possibility of a human being is NOT a human being.
possessing human DNA, alone, does not a person make.
fertilized eggs are pushed out of a woman's body quite often and naturally, and no one is even aware, least of all the woman who's body it occurs within. it is estimated that the majority of sexually active women have t least one miscarriage, aka spontaneous abortion, at least once in their lifetime, unknowingly. it normally would happen so early in the cyce that she simply would be unaware.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow