Iran voter Fraud ?

Sludge Factory

Byrnzie wrote:

To suppose that the U.S does not have a hand in this latest unrest in Iran is ludicrous. Pick up a history book. Do your homework.

Listening to people talk about these Iranian elections, anyone could be forgiven for thinking that the U.S backed overthrow of Mossadegh never happened, that Chile 1973 never happened, Guatemala, Panama, South Vietnam.....e.t.c.....e.t.c.....ad infinitum.....


The U.S is firmly behind this unrest in Iran....PERIOD.

What about the UK?

soulsinging

prfctlefts wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,526102,00.html


I'd have to say the fix was in from the start.

I could be wrong though....

That's good news for Iran. This is proof positive that they truly have a western democracy, a la America in 2000.

Byrnzie

Sludge Factory wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

To suppose that the U.S does not have a hand in this latest unrest in Iran is ludicrous. Pick up a history book. Do your homework.

Listening to people talk about these Iranian elections, anyone could be forgiven for thinking that the U.S backed overthrow of Mossadegh never happened, that Chile 1973 never happened, Guatemala, Panama, South Vietnam.....e.t.c.....e.t.c.....ad infinitum.....


The U.S is firmly behind this unrest in Iran....PERIOD.

What about the UK?

Probably.

Byrnzie

Seems this fella was a little over-confident:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,526102,00.html
'Even before the vote counting began, Mousavi declared himself "definitely the winner" based on "all indications from all over Iran." He accused the government of "manipulating the people's vote" to keep Ahmadinejad in power and suggested the reformist camp would stand up to challenge the results.'

Open

Its not about the election anymore its about the regime...

How can you defend this regime? Is your desire to show the US is involved so great that you would defend an absolute joke of a regime which offers its people nothing but repression?

How come you dont include Iran 1979 on your list?

NoK

What is also ludicrous is the western media bias..

Take for example this article in The Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00256.html

The author states:

In an act fraught with symbolic significance, a suicide bomber blew himself up at the mausoleum of the father of Iran's Islamic revolution, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, while unrest continued across Tehran in defiance of a ban on demonstrations.

so let me get this straight.. if the suicide bomber is pro-west then its "an act fraught with symbolic significance" but if its anti-west then its "terrorism".

Lovely.

Byrnzie

Open wrote:

Its not about the election anymore its about the regime...

How can you defend this regime? Is your desire to show the US is involved so great that you would defend an absolute joke of a regime which offers its people nothing but repression?

How come you dont include Iran 1979 on your list?

The regime is none of Americas business. It's the business of Iranians.

soulsinging

NoK wrote:

What is also ludicrous is the western media bias..

Take for example this article in The Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00256.html

The author states:

In an act fraught with symbolic significance, a suicide bomber blew himself up at the mausoleum of the father of Iran's Islamic revolution, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, while unrest continued across Tehran in defiance of a ban on demonstrations.

so let me get this straight.. if the suicide bomber is pro-west then its "an act fraught with symbolic significance" but if its anti-west then its "terrorism".

Lovely.

Yeah, that's pretty fucked.

NoK

Open wrote:

Its not about the election anymore its about the regime...

How can you defend this regime? Is your desire to show the US is involved so great that you would defend an absolute joke of a regime which offers its people nothing but repression?

How come you dont include Iran 1979 on your list?

This argument is similar to the one pro-Iraq war people make. Its not about the WMD's anymore its about toppling Saddam. Similar in the sense that people will keep shifting logic to suit their own argument.

I am all for change of regime in Iran but not when it stinks of Western interference.

Byrnzie

NoK wrote:

Open wrote:

Its not about the election anymore its about the regime...

How can you defend this regime? Is your desire to show the US is involved so great that you would defend an absolute joke of a regime which offers its people nothing but repression?

How come you dont include Iran 1979 on your list?

This argument is similar to the one pro-Iraq war people make. Its not about the WMD's anymore its about toppling Saddam. Similar in the sense that people will keep shifting logic to suit their own argument.

I am all for change of regime in Iran but not when it stinks of Western interference.

Thay'll be talking about mass graves soon. Maybe mass graves containing the bodies of those poor unfortunate Iraqi Republican Guard who were killed by the Iranians during Iraq's U.S backed invasion of Iran.

It's enough to make you dizzy. :?

NoK

Byrnzie wrote:

Thay'll be talking about mass graves soon. Maybe mass graves containing the bodies of those poor unfortunate Iraqi Republican Guard who were killed by the Iranians during Iraq's U.S backed invasion of Iran.

It's enough to make you dizzy. :?

There was also a short period of time during the Iraq-Iran war where the Iranians advanced towards southern areas of Iraq. They eventually stopped and pulled back realising it was more effective to stick to their ground. Anyway my point is that will probably be used as a pretext as well. I hear it already..

"They have shown us that they are interested in occupying Iraqi land, take for example.."

Yup sounds about right.

Open

I get my news out of Iran and i trust them over allegations i hear on this board. You dont want US involvement, that is totally fine. If you want to blame the media for being bias, thats fine too. Dont belittle what the people out in the streets are doing and play them out to be puppets.

The WMD comparison is not valid.

NoK

Open wrote:

Dont belittle what the people out in the streets are doing and play them out to be puppets.

No one belittled them for you to go on the defensive. The intentions of most is likely to be good but I wouldn't trust someone like Mousavi. If you go back in time and listen to what he had to say you will realise why I am saying this. Reformist, my ass, bought by the West, more likely. No one switches from being a hardcore Khomeini supporter to the opposite side in 20 years unless there was money/power involved.

Open wrote:

The WMD comparison is not valid.

Thank you.

Byrnzie

Open wrote:

I get my news out of Iran and i trust them over allegations i hear on this board. You dont want US involvement, that is totally fine. If you want to blame the media for being bias, thats fine too. Dont belittle what the people out in the streets are doing and play them out to be puppets.

The WMD comparison is not valid.

This looks like almost an exact re-run of what happened in Panama - the Western media building up an image of an evil dictator, allegations of a rigged election, protesters being beaten in the streets, e.t.c. The next thing you know the U.S will invade Iran and massacre a few thousand, or a few hundred thousand people in order to bring 'democracy' to the Iranian people.

Some people on this board criticized me for mentioning Panama, saying that it happened 20 years ago and that therefore it is now irrelevant. I say 'Bollocks!'

History is a wonderful thing. What we're seeing in Iran now is all just so fucking predictable.

NoK

Byrnzie wrote:

Open wrote:

I get my news out of Iran and i trust them over allegations i hear on this board. You dont want US involvement, that is totally fine. If you want to blame the media for being bias, thats fine too. Dont belittle what the people out in the streets are doing and play them out to be puppets.

The WMD comparison is not valid.

This looks like almost an exact re-run of what happened in Panama - the Western media building up an image of an evil dictator, allegations of a rigged election, protesters being beaten in the streets, e.t.c. The next thing you know the U.S will invade Iran and massacre a few thousand, or a few hundred thousand people in order to bring 'democracy' to the Iranian people.

Some people on this board criticized me for mentioning Panama, saying that it happened 20 years ago and that therefore it is now irrelevant. I say 'Bollocks!'

History is a wonderful thing. What we're seeing in Iran now is all just so fucking predictable.

Exactly. They are not puppets they have good intentions which are being used for other purposes. Mainly to demonize Iran to the world for future endeavors.

Open

NoK wrote:

Open wrote:

Dont belittle what the people out in the streets are doing and play them out to be puppets.

No one belittled them for you to go on the defensive. The intentions of most is likely to be good but I wouldn't trust someone like Mousavi. If you go back in time and listen to what he had to say you will realise why I am saying this. Reformist, my ass, bought by the West, more likely. No one switches from being a hardcore Khomeini supporter to the opposite side in 20 years unless there was money/power involved.

Open wrote:

The WMD comparison is not valid.

Thank you.

You are right about Mousavi, its like choosing btwn Cheney and Bush. but again, the unrest has morphed from protesting the results to protesting the regime.

No they wont be talking about mass graves there are plenty of marked graves in cemeteries that attest to the purging this regime did after it took over. One of them belongs to my fathers 15 year old cousin who was caught at a Communist party rally.

Open

Byrnzie wrote:

Open wrote:

I get my news out of Iran and i trust them over allegations i hear on this board. You dont want US involvement, that is totally fine. If you want to blame the media for being bias, thats fine too. Dont belittle what the people out in the streets are doing and play them out to be puppets.

The WMD comparison is not valid.

This looks like almost an exact re-run of what happened in Panama - the Western media building up an image of an evil dictator, allegations of a rigged election, protesters being beaten in the streets, e.t.c. The next thing you know the U.S will invade Iran and massacre a few thousand, or a few hundred thousand people in order to bring 'democracy' to the Iranian people.

Some people on this board criticized me for mentioning Panama, saying that it happened 20 years ago and that therefore it is now irrelevant. I say 'Bollocks!'

History is a wonderful thing. What we're seeing in Iran now is all just so fucking predictable.

Remember this thread in 20 years when you read about all the atrocities committed by this regime in your history book.

Byrnzie

Open wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Open wrote:

I get my news out of Iran and i trust them over allegations i hear on this board. You dont want US involvement, that is totally fine. If you want to blame the media for being bias, thats fine too. Dont belittle what the people out in the streets are doing and play them out to be puppets.

The WMD comparison is not valid.

This looks like almost an exact re-run of what happened in Panama - the Western media building up an image of an evil dictator, allegations of a rigged election, protesters being beaten in the streets, e.t.c. The next thing you know the U.S will invade Iran and massacre a few thousand, or a few hundred thousand people in order to bring 'democracy' to the Iranian people.

Some people on this board criticized me for mentioning Panama, saying that it happened 20 years ago and that therefore it is now irrelevant. I say 'Bollocks!'

History is a wonderful thing. What we're seeing in Iran now is all just so fucking predictable.

Remember this thread in 20 years when you read about all the atrocities committed by this regime in your history book.

Like the U.S government, or even the people of America, give two shits about brutal regimes? If that were the case then how do you explain them installing brutal dictators and death squads all over the world?

I suppose General Pinochet was one of the good guys, right?

And Sadaam was America's friend whilst he was gassing Kurds with U.S supplied chemical weapons.

Tell the people of Guatemala that you're concerned about atrocities committed by brutal regimes and they'll laugh in your face.


Edit: Or is this just an example of how I 'disregard anything that contradicts me, making everything a moral issue with only one black and white possible answer, and believing after cursory research what I'll believe to the end, irrationally defending it against all evidence to the contrary rather than admit ting that I don't know as much as I should before making my decision'?

NoK

Open wrote:

You are right about Mousavi, its like choosing btwn Cheney and Bush. but again, the unrest has morphed from protesting the results to protesting the regime.

No they wont be talking about mass graves there are plenty of marked graves in cemeteries that attest to the purging this regime did after it took over. One of them belongs to my fathers 15 year old cousin who was caught at a Communist party rally.

Open wrote:

Remember this thread in 20 years when you read about all the atrocities committed by this regime in your history book.

I don't think anyone here is arguing in support of this regime. The facts are known that they liquidated everyone who was against the revolution and then went even worse by liquidating anyone they saw as a threat because they were so fearful of an attack against them. All this has already been documented by people such as Fisk in his book "The Great war for civilisation".

Pepe Silvia

NoK wrote:

Open wrote:

Its not about the election anymore its about the regime...

How can you defend this regime? Is your desire to show the US is involved so great that you would defend an absolute joke of a regime which offers its people nothing but repression?

How come you dont include Iran 1979 on your list?

This argument is similar to the one pro-Iraq war people make. Its not about the WMD's anymore its about toppling Saddam. Similar in the sense that people will keep shifting logic to suit their own argument.

I am all for change of regime in Iran but not when it stinks of Western interference.

didn't it come out a year or so ago that we were fucking around in Iran trying to cause unrest inside the country?