North Korea Sentences 2 US Journalists

24

Comments

  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 11,175
    This isn't a hard labor sentence, this is a death sentence. Many people die in these "prisons" and women are raped and are forced to have abortions.

    Unless they are released in some deal I highly doubt they survive the twelve years.
  • edvedderrocks
    edvedderrocks Posts: 1,001
    So sad, what happened to them. I don't think they will ever come back. As a mother, I am also beyond understanding why you would risk so much for your job when you have a child at home. As much as I feel sorry for those ladies, I can't help but think about the little girl crying for her mom.

    Something must be done - thoses people are crazy and totally out of control! I hope everything that can be done will be done.
    "I knew all the rules, but the rules did not know me. Guaranteed."

    1996 Merriweather, MD; 1998 Camden, NJ; 2000 Camden, NJ; 2003 Camden, NJ; 2005 Philly, PA; 2006 Camden, NJ(nights 1 & 2); 2006 Arnhem, NED; 2008 Camden, NJ(nights 1 & 2), Washington DC, MSG(night 2) 2009 Philly Spectrum Shows(nights 1,2,3,4) 2010 Hartford,CT and MSG(night 2)

    ED Solo - 2008 Washington DC, 2009 Philly, PA(nights 1&2)*Met Eddie =)
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    jlew24asu wrote:
    sentencing them to slavery for no reason should never be acceptable. so yea, in this case, imposing our justice is perfectly fine IMO. although I'm not saying war or anything, just that, such treatment should not be excused just because they "arent like us"

    I dont doubt or a second they knew exactly what they were getting involved in. which is why I think they were kidnapped on the China side of the border.

    I really can't help but to see these women as brave for trying to report on something that few would do.

    anyone think we will see a united Korea in the next 50 years?
    ...
    Sentencing to slavery is not acceptable... what if the punishment for espionage was death? Would that be okay?
    Again, I am NOT siding with North Korea or that shithead Kim Jong Il. They are kooky people with kooky laws. I'm just saying that we tell other people to mind their own business when they complain about our Death Penalty, right? What give us the right to tell others what is just or unjust punishment when we reject the opinons of foriegners?
    ...
    And the only reason it is big news here is because they are Americans. Had they been Russian journalists, we'd probably never hear about it except in a tiny, two sentence column in the World News section of the New York Times.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    So it's been said that these people were reporting on refugees along the North Korea border. Maybe, maybe not. Who knows for sure?
    There's been dozens of reported incidents over the years of British 'photographers' detained in remote corners of the world and charged with spying e.t.c. How many of them are innocent and how many do work for M15 or some such organization? The western media will always wash over such incidents, describing those involved as photographers, or tourists e.t.c.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    soulsinging wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    g under p wrote:
    North Korea Sentences 2 US Journalists

    Was this a fair sentence or is this NK playing politics here?

    Peace

    are you asking a serious question? first of all, these journalists are not guilty of anything. second of all, assuming they are, you are asking if 12 years of slavery is fair?

    No, it isn't. But what the hell did these girls expect to happen when they snuck into a fascist dictatorship run by a paranoid psychopath?

    They were lucky not to have been shot on the spot, as happened to a South Korean women who ventured slightly off course in a mountain area a few months back.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7501126.stm

    'A South Korean woman has been shot dead by a North Korean soldier in a special tourism zone in the mountains of North Korean, officials from the North say.

    The 53-year-old is said to have strayed into a restricted area in the Mount Kumgang resort on the east coast...'
  • mca47
    mca47 Posts: 13,337
    North Korea is being the world's biggest instigator right now, there is NO WAY they will get out of jail anytime soon. It doesn't matter if there are sit-downs with them...they are meaning to prove a point.

    And to be honest, this gives them quite a bit of leverage right now. The US (or any other country) isn't going to do shit over two journalists...especially if they were there illegally.

    In a comment made today, NK said that if they had a nuke they'd use it and not feel any remorse...
    Saw what you want about the middle east, but it seems to me NK is just itching to get involved with something...

    These girls are in BAD shape!
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Cosmo wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    sentencing them to slavery for no reason should never be acceptable. so yea, in this case, imposing our justice is perfectly fine IMO. although I'm not saying war or anything, just that, such treatment should not be excused just because they "arent like us"

    I dont doubt or a second they knew exactly what they were getting involved in. which is why I think they were kidnapped on the China side of the border.

    I really can't help but to see these women as brave for trying to report on something that few would do.

    anyone think we will see a united Korea in the next 50 years?
    ...
    Sentencing to slavery is not acceptable... what if the punishment for espionage was death? Would that be okay?
    Again, I am NOT siding with North Korea or that shithead Kim Jong Il. They are kooky people with kooky laws. I'm just saying that we tell other people to mind their own business when they complain about our Death Penalty, right? What give us the right to tell others what is just or unjust punishment when we reject the opinons of foriegners?
    ...

    but thats the point...they aren't guilty of espionage...or anything for that matter. so no, the death penalty would not be ok.
    Cosmo wrote:
    And the only reason it is big news here is because they are Americans. Had they been Russian journalists, we'd probably never hear about it except in a tiny, two sentence column in the World News section of the New York Times.

    um yea so?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    So it's been said that these people were reporting on refugees along the North Korea border. Maybe, maybe not. Who knows for sure?
    There's been dozens of reported incidents over the years of British 'photographers' detained in remote corners of the world and charged with spying e.t.c. How many of them are innocent and how many do work for M15 or some such organization? The western media will always wash over such incidents, describing those involved as photographers, or tourists e.t.c.

    wow, always stretching for something aren't you..whatever it takes to make the "west" look bad. ca we do no right?
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    jlew24asu wrote:
    but thats the point...they aren't guilty of espionage...or anything for that matter. so no, the death penalty would not be ok.

    um yea so?
    ...
    First point. I am not legitimizing the North Korean justice system... i believe it to be a farce.
    That being said, regardless of what I think of their courts, the fact remains, it it their courts. Their courts found the two journalists guilty and sentenced them according to their laws (which I also believe are ridiculous). Since i don't think North Koreans have any business telling us how we should run our courts and which punishment should be imposed... I don't have any business telling them how to run theirs. All I can do is voice an opinion and try to get my government to negotiate their release.
    ...
    And the second part... if these journalists were not American... and were North Korean, Russian, Iranian or Chinese journalists... then, you wouldn't have any problems with it? Becasuse that is how I read your response.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Cosmo wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    but thats the point...they aren't guilty of espionage...or anything for that matter. so no, the death penalty would not be ok.

    um yea so?
    ...
    First point. I am not legitimizing the North Korean justice system... i believe it to be a farce.
    That being said, regardless of what I think of their courts, the fact remains, it it their courts. Their courts found the two journalists guilty and sentenced them according to their laws (which I also believe are ridiculous). Since i don't think North Koreans have any business telling us how we should run our courts and which punishment should be imposed... I don't have any business telling them how to run theirs.All I can do is voice an opinion and try to get my government to negotiate their release.


    well when they basically sentence our citizens to death for NO reason at all, they make it our business. which is exactly what they are trying to do. I'm not saying we should jump into all out war over this, but there should be consequences.


    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    And the second part... if these journalists were not American... and were North Korean, Russian, Iranian or Chinese journalists... then, you wouldn't have any problems with it? Becasuse that is how I read your response.

    of course I would care. if a Russian or Iranian get kidnapped and sentenced to death, I'll support them in getting their citizens back, but thats their problem, not mine.

    not sure why you would I assume I wouldnt have a problem with others going through this.
  • Underground Ear
    Underground Ear Posts: 25
    I've read the entire thread up to this point and I'm glad to see an intelligent discussion regarding the captivity of Laura Ling and Euna Lee going on here. I am one of the people involved in the support effort and activism for Laura and Euna. I'm going to be detailing out efforts in another thread where you can find links to join as not to hijack the discussion here.

    Yes, what they were doing was risky- they are journalists and if you are familiar with the work that Laura Ling has done with Current TV Vanguard Series you'll see that many of her stories involve exposing the suffering of others in hopes to tell the truth. I'm sure they knew there was a risk of being detained and I'm sure China knew they were in China. Their lives are at risk in the hard labor sentence they have been given. It is likely though that the ladies will be kept from these camps as bargaining chip- if they die there- NK has nothing.

    There were two other people with Laura and Euna when they were kidnapped. The two other people are staying out of the limelight as much as possible for obvious reasons- their account is that they did not cross the boarder (which is an ongoing debate between China and North Korea, as to what country owns the river) but were taken by guards who crossed the river after them.

    Current TV is still censoring posts regarding the ladies because we as Americans take freedom of speech for granted and tend to think it means we can say whatever flies from the top of our hot heads to anyone without consequence. There is obvious high political tension with the threats of continued nuclear missiles and it's a world concern where as I must say it is true that the journalists are out shined by this threat- it does not mean that we lie down and die.

    North Korea is using the bully tactic. They have gone against prior agreements, fired off missile after missile and threatened war on anyone who opposes this. So what I hear is: "We're getting ready for war, and if you try to stop us, we're going to war." North Korea is a poor country with many sufferings. They have used others captives as negotiation tools in the past to gain aid to their country and this is likely one of those cases.
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    but thats the point...they aren't guilty of espionage...or anything for that matter. so no, the death penalty would not be ok.

    um yea so?
    ...
    First point. I am not legitimizing the North Korean justice system... i believe it to be a farce.
    That being said, regardless of what I think of their courts, the fact remains, it it their courts. Their courts found the two journalists guilty and sentenced them according to their laws (which I also believe are ridiculous). Since i don't think North Koreans have any business telling us how we should run our courts and which punishment should be imposed... I don't have any business telling them how to run theirs.All I can do is voice an opinion and try to get my government to negotiate their release.


    well when they basically sentence our citizens to death for NO reason at all, they make it our business. which is exactly what they are trying to do. I'm not saying we should jump into all out war over this, but there should be consequences.


    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    And the second part... if these journalists were not American... and were North Korean, Russian, Iranian or Chinese journalists... then, you wouldn't have any problems with it? Becasuse that is how I read your response.

    of course I would care. if a Russian or Iranian get kidnapped and sentenced to death, I'll support them in getting their citizens back, but thats their problem, not mine.

    not sure why you would I assume I wouldnt have a problem with others going through this.

    ...And what consequences would be appropriate?

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    g under p wrote:

    ...And what consequences would be appropriate?

    Peace

    hell if I know. probably none given the complexity of the situation. sanctions is really the only option I see...but those should be given for breaking the armistice agreement, not this.
  • flywallyfly
    flywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    It's terrible that these women are being used for propaganda. Also messsed up that the U.S. has no ground to stand on anymore after we have grabbed men from all over the world, flown them to Gitmo, and held them for years with no trial.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    flywallyfly wrote:
    It's terrible that these women are being used for propaganda. Also messsed up that the U.S. has no ground to stand on anymore after we have grabbed men from all over the world, flown them to Gitmo, and held them for years with no trial.

    What goes around comes around.
  • Underground Ear
    Underground Ear Posts: 25
    Byrnzie wrote:
    flywallyfly wrote:
    It's terrible that these women are being used for propaganda. Also messsed up that the U.S. has no ground to stand on anymore after we have grabbed men from all over the world, flown them to Gitmo, and held them for years with no trial.

    What goes around comes around.


    These two women do not owe this debt to the world. They are not going to pay for the crimes of the U.S. gov has committed. Even if Nk said "We're keeping them b/c of all the detainees in Gitmo" it still wouldn't make up for the people who were detained in ways that are not acceptable to the detainment laws we employ in the U.S. Who the hell was surprised when Bush did something horrible?

    Pre-packed cliches that allow shrugging of the shoulders is ignorance - makes it easier tho.
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    astra do
    you see what jlew is talking about now ?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Astra wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    flywallyfly wrote:
    It's terrible that these women are being used for propaganda. Also messsed up that the U.S. has no ground to stand on anymore after we have grabbed men from all over the world, flown them to Gitmo, and held them for years with no trial.

    What goes around comes around.


    These two women do not owe this debt to the world. They are not going to pay for the crimes of the U.S. gov has committed. Even if Nk said "We're keeping them b/c of all the detainees in Gitmo" it still wouldn't make up for the people who were detained in ways that are not acceptable to the detainment laws we employ in the U.S. Who the hell was surprised when Bush did something horrible?

    Pre-packed cliches that allow shrugging of the shoulders is ignorance - makes it easier tho.


    Because of the behaviour of the U.S these past 6 years, you now have no moral high-ground from which to condemn the treatment of these individuals.

    You reap what you sow.
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Because of the behaviour of the U.S these past 6 years, you now have no moral high-ground from which to condemn the treatment of these individuals.

    You reap what you sow


    :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Good I hope you never need our help.
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    that was real dirty for you to do that I'll make sure to report that one to the mods for you ok.

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