Internet sales tax, yea or nay?

2»

Comments

  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,370
    brianlux said:
    I'm not opposed to raising taxes in theory, as long as they are spent the way they are supposed to be - but that's the problem.  They're not used as intended. In America, they're used to make the rich richer and the bombs bigger.

    And here in Maryland, state taxes are used to give everything to the I-270 corridor (Frederick to DC) and nothing to the other 95% of the state that's poor, has terrible roads, and little to no public services.
    This!
    Here is the thing.  What if the existing taxes were just used appropriately ... then there'd be no reason to keep raising them.

    And what's wrong with expecting government to live within their means.  How many of you can go to your employer and say "you know boss, I can't live within my means, give me more money".


    Your first statement is not true.  The value of the dollar fluctuates short term and increases long term.  Costs of materials and labor moves with the economy and inflation.  There are other things to consider such as population growth, urban sprawl, demand & need for services, performance, maintenance, etc. A public school does not cost the same to build, operate, or maintain today as it did 75 years ago.  If we never raised taxes, we couldn't build new schools, fund the programs they offer, or keep existing schools up to date as technology and knowledge advance.  Do you want our kids learning from textbooks printed in 1920?  Do you want them sitting in rotten wooden desks made over a century ago?
    Taxes aren't the big bad wolf everyone makes them out to be if they are used properly.  The problem is taxes arent used properly, we are lied to about their use, and we are taxed for things which we never see any resources or services.  And the idiots in Congress and the media have the idiots who listen to them pointing fingers at the wrong culprits.  The lady buying cigarettes with food stamps isn't the problem.  It's the asshole in Congress, the pharmaceutical CEO, the bank CFO, that are all running away laughing their asses off while we point fingers at those these taxes & services were designed for in the first place.
    I agree with your points. Cost of schools go up, along with everything else.
    But here’s what I don’t get. When the cost of everything goes up, then you’re paying more taxes already, right? I mean, if you pay 10% tax on something that costs $100, then 20 years down the road that same thing costs $150, that 10% tax is getting more. And with higher population there’s more people paying tax too, so increased population shouldn’t be a reason to increase taxes, because there’s already more being taxed.

    So if the government is using all the money efficiently, why would there ever be a reason to raise taxes? Inflation, cost of living and population growth to me don’t seem like any reason, because they all lead to more taxes naturally.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,370
    Reminds me of tipping.
    i remember 30 years ago the standard tip was 10%, now its at least 20% due to “cost of living.” But why?
    30 years ago a meal was $5 and you tipped 10% (or 50 cents). Now that meal is going to cost close to $20 and you tip 20% (or $4). The tip has increased much faster than the cost of living has. Taxes have done the same thing.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 23,264
    mace1229 said:
    Reminds me of tipping.
    i remember 30 years ago the standard tip was 10%, now its at least 20% due to “cost of living.” But why?
    30 years ago a meal was $5 and you tipped 10% (or 50 cents). Now that meal is going to cost close to $20 and you tip 20% (or $4). The tip has increased much faster than the cost of living has. Taxes have done the same thing.
    I don't mind tipping more.   Maybe wait staff in high end restaurants do well but servers etc. working most eateries just get by.  I've known a bunch of people who are or have worked as wait staff and not a one of them makes a lot of money.  No way.  None of 'em.

    Seeing taxes go up is frustrating though.  I wouldn't mind if more pressing matters were being addressed and solved.  They're not.
    The reason I never give up hope is because everything is so basically hopeless.
    -Anne Lamott
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.



  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,370
    brianlux said:
    mace1229 said:
    Reminds me of tipping.
    i remember 30 years ago the standard tip was 10%, now its at least 20% due to “cost of living.” But why?
    30 years ago a meal was $5 and you tipped 10% (or 50 cents). Now that meal is going to cost close to $20 and you tip 20% (or $4). The tip has increased much faster than the cost of living has. Taxes have done the same thing.
    I don't mind tipping more.   Maybe wait staff in high end restaurants do well but servers etc. working most eateries just get by.  I've known a bunch of people who are or have worked as wait staff and not a one of them makes a lot of money.  No way.  None of 'em.

    Seeing taxes go up is frustrating though.  I wouldn't mind if more pressing matters were being addressed and solved.  They're not.
    I think the whole tipping system doesn’t make any sense.
    i do know some who don’t make a lot, but just as many who do. When you work is more important that where half the time. An average family restaurant can still bring in $200-$300 in a 4-hour shift on a Friday night. But get stuck with the noon-6 on a Tuesday and you might make $60.
    What doesn’t make sense to me is why do I tip more because I ordered a more expensive meal, why do I tip less because I ordered a cheap sandwich and water? It’s the same effort on the waiter. The system doesn’t make sense to me.

    We’re probably a waiter’s nightmare. Family of 4 with 2 small kids on a tight budget. Wife and I often split a plate and get 2 kid’s meals. Our bill is often under $20, so I tip $4-$5. Well over the 20% but far less than what most would get serving 4.
    I really don’t know how the restaurant business survives, eating out with a family of 4 is too expensive for many families. An average restaurant will cost $90 after tax and tip for 1 average meal for 4 at a place like Red Robin or countless other average places. A lot more if you actually get appatizers and drinks. Which is how a server at a place like that on a Friday night, covering just 4 tables could easily make $60 an hour in tips. 

    Sorry to go way way off topic here.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 23,264
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    mace1229 said:
    Reminds me of tipping.
    i remember 30 years ago the standard tip was 10%, now its at least 20% due to “cost of living.” But why?
    30 years ago a meal was $5 and you tipped 10% (or 50 cents). Now that meal is going to cost close to $20 and you tip 20% (or $4). The tip has increased much faster than the cost of living has. Taxes have done the same thing.
    I don't mind tipping more.   Maybe wait staff in high end restaurants do well but servers etc. working most eateries just get by.  I've known a bunch of people who are or have worked as wait staff and not a one of them makes a lot of money.  No way.  None of 'em.

    Seeing taxes go up is frustrating though.  I wouldn't mind if more pressing matters were being addressed and solved.  They're not.
    I think the whole tipping system doesn’t make any sense.
    i do know some who don’t make a lot, but just as many who do. When you work is more important that where half the time. An average family restaurant can still bring in $200-$300 in a 4-hour shift on a Friday night. But get stuck with the noon-6 on a Tuesday and you might make $60.
    What doesn’t make sense to me is why do I tip more because I ordered a more expensive meal, why do I tip less because I ordered a cheap sandwich and water? It’s the same effort on the waiter. The system doesn’t make sense to me.

    We’re probably a waiter’s nightmare. Family of 4 with 2 small kids on a tight budget. Wife and I often split a plate and get 2 kid’s meals. Our bill is often under $20, so I tip $4-$5. Well over the 20% but far less than what most would get serving 4.
    I really don’t know how the restaurant business survives, eating out with a family of 4 is too expensive for many families. An average restaurant will cost $90 after tax and tip for 1 average meal for 4 at a place like Red Robin or countless other average places. A lot more if you actually get appatizers and drinks. Which is how a server at a place like that on a Friday night, covering just 4 tables could easily make $60 an hour in tips. 

    Sorry to go way way off topic here.
    No worries, you make some good points there.  I agree, I don't know how people do it.  Restaurant business is just about the last line of business I would ever go into.
    The reason I never give up hope is because everything is so basically hopeless.
    -Anne Lamott
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.



  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 938
    When do you stop tipping.  Ontario Minimum Wage 14/hour ....
  • LongestRoadLongestRoad Posts: 152
    You should pay tax on new items or services. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 23,264
    You should pay tax on new items or services. 
    Yeah, really if you look at it, paying tax on used items is double taxation.  Which means my wife has been required to collect that double tax from her customers for 35 years and me for about 15 years (although my business in tiny in comparison to hers).   Places like Goodwill and Snowline Hospice Thrift stores (I think rightfully so) collect no tax.
    The reason I never give up hope is because everything is so basically hopeless.
    -Anne Lamott
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.



  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 938
    brianlux said:
    You should pay tax on new items or services. 
    Yeah, really if you look at it, paying tax on used items is double taxation.  Which means my wife has been required to collect that double tax from her customers for 35 years and me for about 15 years (although my business in tiny in comparison to hers).   Places like Goodwill and Snowline Hospice Thrift stores (I think rightfully so) collect no tax.

    Used items should not be taxed ... tax should only need to be paid once.  There should only be either income tax or a sales tax not both.  
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 23,264
    brianlux said:
    You should pay tax on new items or services. 
    Yeah, really if you look at it, paying tax on used items is double taxation.  Which means my wife has been required to collect that double tax from her customers for 35 years and me for about 15 years (although my business in tiny in comparison to hers).   Places like Goodwill and Snowline Hospice Thrift stores (I think rightfully so) collect no tax.

    Used items should not be taxed ... tax should only need to be paid once.  There should only be either income tax or a sales tax not both.  
    Interesting thought.  Gov probably won't go for it though!

    One interesting idea I've heard (regarding sales tax) would be to tax only non-essential items.  That is, no tax on food, shelter, clothing, medical needs but sales tax on everything else.  That way, the person making a low income isn't hit as hard, people buying common entertainment and accessory items paying a moderate amount of tax and people who want yachts, precious stones, swimming pools and other luxury items would pay higher tax.  The higher the cost of a non-essential item, the greater the tax.  I thought that made sense.  Gov probably won't go for it though!
    The reason I never give up hope is because everything is so basically hopeless.
    -Anne Lamott
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.



  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 938
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    You should pay tax on new items or services. 
    Yeah, really if you look at it, paying tax on used items is double taxation.  Which means my wife has been required to collect that double tax from her customers for 35 years and me for about 15 years (although my business in tiny in comparison to hers).   Places like Goodwill and Snowline Hospice Thrift stores (I think rightfully so) collect no tax.

    Used items should not be taxed ... tax should only need to be paid once.  There should only be either income tax or a sales tax not both.  
    Interesting thought.  Gov probably won't go for it though!

    One interesting idea I've heard (regarding sales tax) would be to tax only non-essential items.  That is, no tax on food, shelter, clothing, medical needs but sales tax on everything else.  That way, the person making a low income isn't hit as hard, people buying common entertainment and accessory items paying a moderate amount of tax and people who want yachts, precious stones, swimming pools and other luxury items would pay higher tax.  The higher the cost of a non-essential item, the greater the tax.  I thought that made sense.  Gov probably won't go for it though!
    I agree, the government would never agree.  How about cars?  they collect sales tax every time a car is sold over and over.  the government are crooks...
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,370
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    You should pay tax on new items or services. 
    Yeah, really if you look at it, paying tax on used items is double taxation.  Which means my wife has been required to collect that double tax from her customers for 35 years and me for about 15 years (although my business in tiny in comparison to hers).   Places like Goodwill and Snowline Hospice Thrift stores (I think rightfully so) collect no tax.

    Used items should not be taxed ... tax should only need to be paid once.  There should only be either income tax or a sales tax not both.  
    Interesting thought.  Gov probably won't go for it though!

    One interesting idea I've heard (regarding sales tax) would be to tax only non-essential items.  That is, no tax on food, shelter, clothing, medical needs but sales tax on everything else.  That way, the person making a low income isn't hit as hard, people buying common entertainment and accessory items paying a moderate amount of tax and people who want yachts, precious stones, swimming pools and other luxury items would pay higher tax.  The higher the cost of a non-essential item, the greater the tax.  I thought that made sense.  Gov probably won't go for it though!
    Don’t they already do that? Food is not taxed for sure. I didn’t think many other essentials weren’t either, like medical treatments, prescriptions, labor. Clothing usually is, but NY doesn’t tax clothes under $100 (over $100 I guess they figure it’s a luxury.

    i don’t have a problem with both income and sales tax. Because if they got rid of one they’d just increase the other. It’s 6 of one or half dozen of another, makes no difference in the end. Not like the government will be able to function on half the income if they just did away with one.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 23,264
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    You should pay tax on new items or services. 
    Yeah, really if you look at it, paying tax on used items is double taxation.  Which means my wife has been required to collect that double tax from her customers for 35 years and me for about 15 years (although my business in tiny in comparison to hers).   Places like Goodwill and Snowline Hospice Thrift stores (I think rightfully so) collect no tax.

    Used items should not be taxed ... tax should only need to be paid once.  There should only be either income tax or a sales tax not both.  
    Interesting thought.  Gov probably won't go for it though!

    One interesting idea I've heard (regarding sales tax) would be to tax only non-essential items.  That is, no tax on food, shelter, clothing, medical needs but sales tax on everything else.  That way, the person making a low income isn't hit as hard, people buying common entertainment and accessory items paying a moderate amount of tax and people who want yachts, precious stones, swimming pools and other luxury items would pay higher tax.  The higher the cost of a non-essential item, the greater the tax.  I thought that made sense.  Gov probably won't go for it though!
    I agree, the government would never agree.  How about cars?  they collect sales tax every time a car is sold over and over.  the government are crooks...
    Cars?  I would say yes but (I'm playing a god of sorts here) I would use as little as possible of the tax money collected from automobiles to maintain roadways but find more useful work for the (at least) half of the road crews that stand around leaning on shovels.  Then I would funnel all the rest (the biggest chunk) into alternative energy development and environmental clean up. 

    As for government being crooks, I'm very leery of that term. I've know a lot of people who are government employees and none of them are crooks.  Not one. 
    The reason I never give up hope is because everything is so basically hopeless.
    -Anne Lamott
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.



  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 23,264
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    You should pay tax on new items or services. 
    Yeah, really if you look at it, paying tax on used items is double taxation.  Which means my wife has been required to collect that double tax from her customers for 35 years and me for about 15 years (although my business in tiny in comparison to hers).   Places like Goodwill and Snowline Hospice Thrift stores (I think rightfully so) collect no tax.

    Used items should not be taxed ... tax should only need to be paid once.  There should only be either income tax or a sales tax not both.  
    Interesting thought.  Gov probably won't go for it though!

    One interesting idea I've heard (regarding sales tax) would be to tax only non-essential items.  That is, no tax on food, shelter, clothing, medical needs but sales tax on everything else.  That way, the person making a low income isn't hit as hard, people buying common entertainment and accessory items paying a moderate amount of tax and people who want yachts, precious stones, swimming pools and other luxury items would pay higher tax.  The higher the cost of a non-essential item, the greater the tax.  I thought that made sense.  Gov probably won't go for it though!
    Don’t they already do that? Food is not taxed for sure. I didn’t think many other essentials weren’t either, like medical treatments, prescriptions, labor. Clothing usually is, but NY doesn’t tax clothes under $100 (over $100 I guess they figure it’s a luxury.

    i don’t have a problem with both income and sales tax. Because if they got rid of one they’d just increase the other. It’s 6 of one or half dozen of another, makes no difference in the end. Not like the government will be able to function on half the income if they just did away with one.
    True, and sorry I wasn't totally clear.  If I recall correctly, the idea this friend has is that that only non-essentials are taxed so that all tax money collected comes from that which is purchased and no income tax.  Because there would be no income tax, the tax rate on all non-essential items would be higher than it is now.  The very wealthy would still be able to afford yachts and diamond necklaces and all that superfluous nonsense but the tax on high priced items would amount to large sums of money.  This seems just to me.  Someone can afford a yacht or private jet?  Fine-- then they can afford the high amount of tax and should pay it without any complaints.  A lot of other people are working hard to just get by. 
    The reason I never give up hope is because everything is so basically hopeless.
    -Anne Lamott
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.



  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 40,651
    edited June 11
    mace1229 said:
    Reminds me of tipping.
    i remember 30 years ago the standard tip was 10%, now its at least 20% due to “cost of living.” But why?
    30 years ago a meal was $5 and you tipped 10% (or 50 cents). Now that meal is going to cost close to $20 and you tip 20% (or $4). The tip has increased much faster than the cost of living has. Taxes have done the same thing.
    I have to disagree with you there, just because the gap between the cost of living vs salary increases has grown ENORMOUSLY over 30 years. People are able to afford much less on their current salaries than they were able to back then. So the tips are actually about the only fair increase going, since people's regular salaries compared to the increases in cost of living have not experienced the same benefit.... and that is solely because regular people are much more generous and caring towards servers than business and corporations are towards their workers. If greedy corporations were even half as decent as those tipping their servers, people wouldn't be struggling so much.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 938
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    You should pay tax on new items or services. 
    Yeah, really if you look at it, paying tax on used items is double taxation.  Which means my wife has been required to collect that double tax from her customers for 35 years and me for about 15 years (although my business in tiny in comparison to hers).   Places like Goodwill and Snowline Hospice Thrift stores (I think rightfully so) collect no tax.

    Used items should not be taxed ... tax should only need to be paid once.  There should only be either income tax or a sales tax not both.  
    Interesting thought.  Gov probably won't go for it though!

    One interesting idea I've heard (regarding sales tax) would be to tax only non-essential items.  That is, no tax on food, shelter, clothing, medical needs but sales tax on everything else.  That way, the person making a low income isn't hit as hard, people buying common entertainment and accessory items paying a moderate amount of tax and people who want yachts, precious stones, swimming pools and other luxury items would pay higher tax.  The higher the cost of a non-essential item, the greater the tax.  I thought that made sense.  Gov probably won't go for it though!
    There so be no tax on essential items.  Here in Ontario we tax on our natural gas for heating...it's stupid...
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 40,651
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    You should pay tax on new items or services. 
    Yeah, really if you look at it, paying tax on used items is double taxation.  Which means my wife has been required to collect that double tax from her customers for 35 years and me for about 15 years (although my business in tiny in comparison to hers).   Places like Goodwill and Snowline Hospice Thrift stores (I think rightfully so) collect no tax.

    Used items should not be taxed ... tax should only need to be paid once.  There should only be either income tax or a sales tax not both.  
    Interesting thought.  Gov probably won't go for it though!

    One interesting idea I've heard (regarding sales tax) would be to tax only non-essential items.  That is, no tax on food, shelter, clothing, medical needs but sales tax on everything else.  That way, the person making a low income isn't hit as hard, people buying common entertainment and accessory items paying a moderate amount of tax and people who want yachts, precious stones, swimming pools and other luxury items would pay higher tax.  The higher the cost of a non-essential item, the greater the tax.  I thought that made sense.  Gov probably won't go for it though!
    There so be no tax on essential items.  Here in Ontario we tax on our natural gas for heating...it's stupid...
    I agree there should be no tax on essential items (as there already isn't on groceries), and also agree that used items should not be taxed - I'm not up with double-dipping by the government.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 938
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    You should pay tax on new items or services. 
    Yeah, really if you look at it, paying tax on used items is double taxation.  Which means my wife has been required to collect that double tax from her customers for 35 years and me for about 15 years (although my business in tiny in comparison to hers).   Places like Goodwill and Snowline Hospice Thrift stores (I think rightfully so) collect no tax.

    Used items should not be taxed ... tax should only need to be paid once.  There should only be either income tax or a sales tax not both.  
    Interesting thought.  Gov probably won't go for it though!

    One interesting idea I've heard (regarding sales tax) would be to tax only non-essential items.  That is, no tax on food, shelter, clothing, medical needs but sales tax on everything else.  That way, the person making a low income isn't hit as hard, people buying common entertainment and accessory items paying a moderate amount of tax and people who want yachts, precious stones, swimming pools and other luxury items would pay higher tax.  The higher the cost of a non-essential item, the greater the tax.  I thought that made sense.  Gov probably won't go for it though!
    There so be no tax on essential items.  Here in Ontario we tax on our natural gas for heating...it's stupid...
    I agree there should be no tax on essential items (as there already isn't on groceries), and also agree that used items should not be taxed - I'm not up with double-dipping by the government.
    The question is?  What's essential?  What's not?  I'm not sure sales tax would ever removed from clothes ... but to a certain degree clothes are essential as well.  But I think some hygiene products should be tax free, some clothes as well...it might require another committee to figure out what items should exempt...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 938
    Brian.  Do you have to charge sales tax on your used books (not sure how the sales tax works in California).
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 40,651
    edited June 11
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    You should pay tax on new items or services. 
    Yeah, really if you look at it, paying tax on used items is double taxation.  Which means my wife has been required to collect that double tax from her customers for 35 years and me for about 15 years (although my business in tiny in comparison to hers).   Places like Goodwill and Snowline Hospice Thrift stores (I think rightfully so) collect no tax.

    Used items should not be taxed ... tax should only need to be paid once.  There should only be either income tax or a sales tax not both.  
    Interesting thought.  Gov probably won't go for it though!

    One interesting idea I've heard (regarding sales tax) would be to tax only non-essential items.  That is, no tax on food, shelter, clothing, medical needs but sales tax on everything else.  That way, the person making a low income isn't hit as hard, people buying common entertainment and accessory items paying a moderate amount of tax and people who want yachts, precious stones, swimming pools and other luxury items would pay higher tax.  The higher the cost of a non-essential item, the greater the tax.  I thought that made sense.  Gov probably won't go for it though!
    There so be no tax on essential items.  Here in Ontario we tax on our natural gas for heating...it's stupid...
    I agree there should be no tax on essential items (as there already isn't on groceries), and also agree that used items should not be taxed - I'm not up with double-dipping by the government.
    The question is?  What's essential?  What's not?  I'm not sure sales tax would ever removed from clothes ... but to a certain degree clothes are essential as well.  But I think some hygiene products should be tax free, some clothes as well...it might require another committee to figure out what items should exempt...
    I consider essentials those things that fall under the basic necessities list, which is shelter, food, heat, water, clothing (and yes, feminine hygiene products, even though that's not a traditional basic necessity because people never wanted to think about it... Diapers should also be on the list). But shelter is complicated because of the necessity of property taxes, which are needed to maintain a home, but there is no tax on rent, at least not technically (the owners just work them into the rent though), and I think that's generally fine given the fact that property taxes are an absolute necessity to keep up the infrastructure that those properties rely on. However, I believe in rent control to make up for that. For clothes, well, I agree removing taxes from all clothing would be too much, but there are already exemptions for children, and I think a good idea would be to maybe provide tax refunds for clothing to those who earn less than, say, $30K/year or something. Or to provide refunds for maybe the first $300 worth of clothing bought in a year or something like that. Just some random ideas for how to help people who are struggling while still making sure there is enough tax revenue coming from those who can afford it.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 10,799
    mace1229 said:
    Reminds me of tipping.
    i remember 30 years ago the standard tip was 10%, now its at least 20% due to “cost of living.” But why?
    30 years ago a meal was $5 and you tipped 10% (or 50 cents). Now that meal is going to cost close to $20 and you tip 20% (or $4). The tip has increased much faster than the cost of living has. Taxes have done the same thing.
    Tipping is the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard of.  Don't get me wrong, I tip, and I tip well because it's the standard in America and people's livelihoods depend on it.  But restaurant/bar owners should pay their staff a decent living wage and tipping should be obsolete.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 40,651
    mace1229 said:
    Reminds me of tipping.
    i remember 30 years ago the standard tip was 10%, now its at least 20% due to “cost of living.” But why?
    30 years ago a meal was $5 and you tipped 10% (or 50 cents). Now that meal is going to cost close to $20 and you tip 20% (or $4). The tip has increased much faster than the cost of living has. Taxes have done the same thing.
    Tipping is the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard of.  Don't get me wrong, I tip, and I tip well because it's the standard in America and people's livelihoods depend on it.  But restaurant/bar owners should pay their staff a decent living wage and tipping should be obsolete.
    I like tipping. I think it's better for us to have a choice based on the level of service we get rather than being forced to pay that amount even when the service sucks, which is what would happen if tipping were done away with and owners started paying much higher wages to compensate. I don't really understand why you'd want that. Is it out of concern for shitty servers?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 12,010
    Sadly, Amazon USA and UK will no longer be shipping to Australia as they do not want to pay tax.
    I am so pissed off, Amazon Australia have nowhere near the range that Amazon USA have.
    Some things I can only get overseas. 
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,370
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace1229 said:
    Reminds me of tipping.
    i remember 30 years ago the standard tip was 10%, now its at least 20% due to “cost of living.” But why?
    30 years ago a meal was $5 and you tipped 10% (or 50 cents). Now that meal is going to cost close to $20 and you tip 20% (or $4). The tip has increased much faster than the cost of living has. Taxes have done the same thing.
    I have to disagree with you there, just because the gap between the cost of living vs salary increases has grown ENORMOUSLY over 30 years. People are able to afford much less on their current salaries than they were able to back then. So the tips are actually about the only fair increase going, since people's regular salaries compared to the increases in cost of living have not experienced the same benefit.... and that is solely because regular people are much more generous and caring towards servers than business and corporations are towards their workers. If greedy corporations were even half as decent as those tipping their servers, people wouldn't be struggling so much.
    That sounds like even more reason to have kept tipping at 10%. If cost of living, which would include eating out I assume, has increased at a higher rate than salaries then a 10% tip would still equate to a bigger “raise” than the general public, right?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,370
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    You should pay tax on new items or services. 
    Yeah, really if you look at it, paying tax on used items is double taxation.  Which means my wife has been required to collect that double tax from her customers for 35 years and me for about 15 years (although my business in tiny in comparison to hers).   Places like Goodwill and Snowline Hospice Thrift stores (I think rightfully so) collect no tax.

    Used items should not be taxed ... tax should only need to be paid once.  There should only be either income tax or a sales tax not both.  
    Interesting thought.  Gov probably won't go for it though!

    One interesting idea I've heard (regarding sales tax) would be to tax only non-essential items.  That is, no tax on food, shelter, clothing, medical needs but sales tax on everything else.  That way, the person making a low income isn't hit as hard, people buying common entertainment and accessory items paying a moderate amount of tax and people who want yachts, precious stones, swimming pools and other luxury items would pay higher tax.  The higher the cost of a non-essential item, the greater the tax.  I thought that made sense.  Gov probably won't go for it though!
    There so be no tax on essential items.  Here in Ontario we tax on our natural gas for heating...it's stupid...
    I agree there should be no tax on essential items (as there already isn't on groceries), and also agree that used items should not be taxed - I'm not up with double-dipping by the government.
    The question is?  What's essential?  What's not?  I'm not sure sales tax would ever removed from clothes ... but to a certain degree clothes are essential as well.  But I think some hygiene products should be tax free, some clothes as well...it might require another committee to figure out what items should exempt...
    I consider essentials those things that fall under the basic necessities list, which is shelter, food, heat, water, clothing (and yes, feminine hygiene products, even though that's not a traditional basic necessity because people never wanted to think about it... Diapers should also be on the list). But shelter is complicated because of the necessity of property taxes, which are needed to maintain a home, but there is no tax on rent, at least not technically (the owners just work them into the rent though), and I think that's generally fine given the fact that property taxes are an absolute necessity to keep up the infrastructure that those properties rely on. However, I believe in rent control to make up for that. For clothes, well, I agree removing taxes from all clothing would be too much, but there are already exemptions for children, and I think a good idea would be to maybe provide tax refunds for clothing to those who earn less than, say, $30K/year or something. Or to provide refunds for maybe the first $300 worth of clothing bought in a year or something like that. Just some random ideas for how to help people who are struggling while still making sure there is enough tax revenue coming from those who can afford it.
    I would be okay with sales tax on everything. Taxing only nonessential items would have loopholes or be overly complicated. Tax laws are already too complicated. Order a sandwich at Subway and it’s taxed if it’s toasted because it counts as basically eating out, but not taxed if it isn’t because it counts as buying groceries. Same as when you go to an ice cream shop and eat in our take out- eat it is taxed, to go isn’t. Really dumb.
    if you want to tax only truly the essentials, then are all groceries? I mean, there’s a 99 can’t loaf of bread and there’s the $6 gourmet loaf. There’s $3 ground beef and there’s the $12.99 filet. There are definitely some non-essential “groceries” out there. I’m a single income household with my wife working part time to take care of our kids and pay virtually no income tax because my salary (as a teacher) is almost considered poverty. So us poor people get a lot of tax breaks. Actually, we make money on our tax returns, based on income and 2 kids my tax return is more than I paid in taxes for the year. So I can’t complain about some sales tax.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 23,264
    Brian.  Do you have to charge sales tax on your used books (not sure how the sales tax works in California).
    Yes and no, Meltdown.  My wife and her business partner have a brick and mortar store and all sales within the store are taxable (unless bought by another bookseller who can provide evidence of a resale number).  I sell books through a home based business.  If I sell a book locally, I have to charge sales tax.  If I sell a book on-line (I use Biblio.com for listing more obscure books not likely to sell locally) I do not have to charge sales tax even if the book is sold in the same state I'm in- California  (with one- so far- exception, see below).  I also sell at book fairs and do charge sales tax unless, again, the purchase is made by another book dealer and then there is no sales tax. 

    All of this is beginning to change.  For example, as a Biblio dealer, if I sell a book to a customer in the state of Washington, I must now charge sales tax.  If more states do this and the taxes are all different, bookkeeping will become even more of a headache than it is already. 
    The reason I never give up hope is because everything is so basically hopeless.
    -Anne Lamott
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.



  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 40,651
    edited June 12
    mace1229 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace1229 said:
    Reminds me of tipping.
    i remember 30 years ago the standard tip was 10%, now its at least 20% due to “cost of living.” But why?
    30 years ago a meal was $5 and you tipped 10% (or 50 cents). Now that meal is going to cost close to $20 and you tip 20% (or $4). The tip has increased much faster than the cost of living has. Taxes have done the same thing.
    I have to disagree with you there, just because the gap between the cost of living vs salary increases has grown ENORMOUSLY over 30 years. People are able to afford much less on their current salaries than they were able to back then. So the tips are actually about the only fair increase going, since people's regular salaries compared to the increases in cost of living have not experienced the same benefit.... and that is solely because regular people are much more generous and caring towards servers than business and corporations are towards their workers. If greedy corporations were even half as decent as those tipping their servers, people wouldn't be struggling so much.
    That sounds like even more reason to have kept tipping at 10%. If cost of living, which would include eating out I assume, has increased at a higher rate than salaries then a 10% tip would still equate to a bigger “raise” than the general public, right?
    Only if you're thinking about yourself and not helping out the server. Think of increasing the tip for this reason as fighting the power, lol. ;)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 4,053
    Supreme Court rules states can force online retailers to collect sales tax

    It's a hopeless situation...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 23,264
    tbergs said:
    Supreme Court rules states can force online retailers to collect sales tax

    That will probably complicate my on-line book sales but maybe will be good for my wife's brick and mortar store.  I'm OK with that!
    The reason I never give up hope is because everything is so basically hopeless.
    -Anne Lamott
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.



  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 9,273
    tbergs said:
    Supreme Court rules states can force online retailers to collect sales tax

    And the government takes more $....prices up for everyone!!!

    In reality this makes sense in a changing online economy. 
    hippiemom = goodness
2»
Sign In or Register to comment.