Former CEO of Ticketmaster comes clean on how fans get screwed on tickets

on2legs

Great article, with a Pearl Jam shout out in it, on the new website from Bill Simmons... The Ringer

https://theringer.com/ticket-industry-problem-solution-e4b3b71fdff6#.3iiqte39z

on2legs

I thought the most interesting point was that promoters guarantee bands a set amount of money and let bands set the face value of tickets to appear like they are looking out for their fans. And then the promoted is allowed to make his money back by scalping seats way above the face value. Pretty clever all around. Devious. But sill clever.

CW55354

He makes a good point that we often forget. Markets set the price in a capitalist system. If the original ticket price is less than what people are willing to pay, a secondary market opens up. 2 ways to fix this: Pearl Jam raises ticket prices to the level that no one can resell at a higher price; or (and my personal preference) Pearl Jam plays 5 night stands at every venue.

Horse2345

http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/255979/an-interesting-ticketmaster-article#latest

on2legs

I like the idea of paperless ticketing. It's not often that I have to sell tickets to a show so I would be happy to eat the seats once in while if I couldn't make it. Much prefer this instead of allowing scalpers to grab all the tickets for every show.

Bentleyspop

Unfortunately most of what was in the article is old news.
Artists, managers, promoters, venues, teams, record labels, etc have been selling tickets to brokers for decades. Now, though, there are are multiple avenues to make more money from tickets, especially now that there is little to be made from music production (CDs, records, downloadz, etc).

I used to go to a couple dozen or more shows per year. Now all I typically go to are PJ shows and the occasional club gig. Most shows no longer have good seats available at general onsale and even if they do they are waaaaay overpriced. So not worth the hassle and aggravation.

Like many others on here I don't like how hard it is to get tickets but there there are many things way more important to worry about in life.

Namaste

bootlegger10

Bentleyspop said:

Unfortunately most of what was in the article is old news.
Artists, managers, promoters, venues, teams, record labels, etc have been selling tickets to brokers for decades. Now, though, there are are multiple avenues to make more money from tickets, especially now that there is little to be made from music production (CDs, records, downloadz, etc).

I used to go to a couple dozen or more shows per year. Now all I typically go to are PJ shows and the occasional club gig. Most shows no longer have good seats available at general onsale and even if they do they are waaaaay overpriced. So not worth the hassle and aggravation.

Like many others on here I don't like how hard it is to get tickets but there there are many things way more important to worry about in life.

Namaste

Most stuff we do for fun isn't all that important though at the end of the day.

shoelessdun

Read and shared this article with my wife...depressing for us, the average fans we are. So thankful that 10C gives us a shot at lottery tickets for virtually every PJ show.

pledgeagrievance

on2legs said:

I like the idea of paperless ticketing. It's not often that I have to sell tickets to a show so I would be happy to eat the seats once in while if I couldn't make it. Much prefer this instead of allowing scalpers to grab all the tickets for every show.

I agree. No reason for this not to b the standard

on2legs

shoelessdun said:

Read and shared this article with my wife...depressing for us, the average fans we are. So thankful that 10C gives us a shot at lottery tickets for virtually every PJ show.

This. I can put up with being in the nosebleeds for Bruce Springsteen because I routinely get fantastic seats for Pearl Jam thanks to the ten club. It sucks that the system is the way it is and I wish someone would step up and change it.

on2legs

The Internet is also a huge culprit In this whole mess. It used to be that scalpers were shady guys lurking in the shadows of a venue. Now thanks to stubhub, eBay, and the Internet anyone can be a ticket scalper.

Tristelune

"Toronto Ninja glockenspiele" haha, great article by the way.

AngryGreg

I'm all for paperless ticketing or a name printed on the ticket and showing an ID to get in. I don't care if it takes longer to get into a show. I want the fair shot to get tickets to a concert I want to go to. It's especially rough because I live in Los Angeles and seemingly everyone makes a shitload more money than I do and can afford to pay hundreds per ticket.

tempo_n_groove

on2legs said:

shoelessdun said:

Read and shared this article with my wife...depressing for us, the average fans we are. So thankful that 10C gives us a shot at lottery tickets for virtually every PJ show.

This. I can put up with being in the nosebleeds for Bruce Springsteen because I routinely get fantastic seats for Pearl Jam thanks to the ten club. It sucks that the system is the way it is and I wish someone would step up and change it.

Tell you what, I feel spoiled now because of 10Club tickets. Doing GA for them is unbelievable...

On the ticket subject too, what about the VIP tickets that are being sold now? Is that part of the promoter or venue getting their money back?

I paid $100 for a VIP meet and greet with Awolnation which I thought was absolutely worth it. I passed on the $450 VIP ticket for ArcadeFire though...

on2legs

tempo_n_groove said:

on2legs said:

shoelessdun said:

Read and shared this article with my wife...depressing for us, the average fans we are. So thankful that 10C gives us a shot at lottery tickets for virtually every PJ show.

This. I can put up with being in the nosebleeds for Bruce Springsteen because I routinely get fantastic seats for Pearl Jam thanks to the ten club. It sucks that the system is the way it is and I wish someone would step up and change it.

Tell you what, I feel spoiled now because of 10Club tickets. Doing GA for them is unbelievable...

On the ticket subject too, what about the VIP tickets that are being sold now? Is that part of the promoter or venue getting their money back?

I paid $100 for a VIP meet and greet with Awolnation which I thought was absolutely worth it. I passed on the $450 VIP ticket for ArcadeFire though...

I think that's got to go to the band. I don't think they're going to hang out with fans for free.

My buddy got us crazy good VIP tickets to U2 last year at MSG. He paid for them. I would never shell out that much cash myself.

Big Bank Hank

So couldn't Pearl Jam in theory play a place like The Gorge, promote the shows themselves on the website and doing radio interviews, and sell tickets for like 40 bucks?

LeafsJaysCubsRaptorsFan

Big Bank Hank said:

So couldn't Pearl Jam in theory play a place like The Gorge, promote the shows themselves on the website and doing radio interviews, and sell tickets for like 40 bucks?

The gorge is owned by ln

blindmule

l

on2legs

The ticket monopoly is too big for an artist to run a major tour without them. It would take a huge intervention by the government to regulate things and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

F Me In The Brain

Interesting article, thanks for posting it.
I think they should sell the tickets for what they are worth and allow the promoters to make money. Oh yeah, that wouldn't stop them...they would still do what they are doing and make more.
Broken system.

motar

on2legs said:

The Internet is also a huge culprit In this whole mess. It used to be that scalpers were shady guys lurking in the shadows of a venue. Now thanks to stubhub, eBay, and the Internet anyone can be a ticket scalper.

I guess the tradeoff is that Stubhub prevents you from stabbed in the shadows of a venue by some shady guy.

on2legs

motar said:

on2legs said:

The Internet is also a huge culprit In this whole mess. It used to be that scalpers were shady guys lurking in the shadows of a venue. Now thanks to stubhub, eBay, and the Internet anyone can be a ticket scalper.

I guess the tradeoff is that Stubhub prevents you from stabbed in the shadows of a venue by some shady guy.

Always a silver lining in any dark cloud I suppose

Zod

I always knew the blocks of tickets were being sold directly to brokers. I always assumed it was Ticketmaster that was doing it, but it never occurred to me the promoter could do it and that it was happening on the promoter level.

I knew bands get guarantee's. That was old news. Most of the big bands get offered a rate, then the promoter/venue/ticketmaster do all the logistics. Everything from promoting, selling, and running the venue. The bands don't have to do much other than show up, set up their stage/gear and play. What I didn't realize was that promoter's were offering rates so high that it was more than the total Face Value of all the tickets. That's crazy.

It's been a while since I read an article that offered me new insights. It does transition some of my blame from TM onto Promoters. It was from a guy that ran TM so I'm still skeptical.

There's no way fans really win. Not when face value is that far below market value. You're basically left with two options. Paperless ticketing or increase the face value of your tickets. If you keep prices low then you're creating a black market for them. If you do that you need to make the tickets as non-transferable as possible.

HughFreakingDillon

good thing I rarely go to "hot ticket" shows. I mostly go to club gigs or smaller venue shows. A friend of mine couldn't get one freaking ticket to Garth Brooks out of FOUR SHOWS. Unbelievable. Can't believe he likes Garth Brooks.

Zod

Remember when Garth Brooks beat out the record held by Vs. for most albums sold in a week. It was such a sham. I still wonder to this day if anyone would of beat the record had Soundscan not changed how it was recorded (went from albums sold to albums shipped for the math).

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

A friend of mine couldn't get one freaking ticket to Garth Brooks out of FOUR SHOWS. Unbelievable. Can't believe he likes Garth Brooks.

PJ_Soul

on2legs said:

I thought the most interesting point was that promoters guarantee bands a set amount of money and let bands set the face value of tickets to appear like they are looking out for their fans. And then the promoted is allowed to make his money back by scalping seats way above the face value. Pretty clever all around. Devious. But sill clever.

Yeah, the artists are AGREEING to getting paid more than what the face value tickets are worth, and then the promoters act accordingly so that they can still make money. Seems more like the fault of the artists who sign those contracts than it does the promoters Zod (as I read that you found yourself more mad at the promoters than you were before reading the (great) article). The artists want the fans to THINK that they are trying to give them a fair deal, like they care about their fans, but in fact are screwing them behind their backs. Yes, you're right on2legs, this is super duper devious and slimy.

PJ_Soul

.

my2hands

if people stopped going, this would stop happening... speak with your wallets, nothing else will ever work

this is why I LOVE the 10c and the tickets, fuck those greedy bastards

my2hands

this is also why anybody that flips 10c ticket for profit is a fucking asshole... I don't care if you flip posters, or coffee mugs, or dog collars... but tickets are where I draw the line, they are sacred to me

PJ_Soul

my2hands said:

if people stopped going, this would stop happening... speak with your wallets, nothing else will ever work

this is why I LOVE the 10c and the tickets, fuck those greedy bastards

People will NEVER stop paying into the problem. Small numbers will out of principle (some of them are 10C members for sure), but most people (still including the majority of 10C members I think) just don't see the big picture, or they do, and are simply too "me me me I want I want I want" to ever alter their behaviour for the greater good. The whole concept of "the greater good" is very close to dead in North American, IMO.