Former CEO of Ticketmaster comes clean on how fans get screwed on tickets

Zod

PJ_Soul said:

Well I'm not talking about loopholes. Just one option to give tickets to someone and still prevent scalping. I think what I suggested is a perfectly reasonable and simple solution that would apply equally to everyone, so it's not an exception or a loophole. At the very least, keep the ticket transfer option and make the original buyer enter a new credit card number for the new ticket holder. That way the new holder could still present an assigned CC at the door.... How many people are going to be offering up their CC number to a scalper?? I don't think anyone in the world would do that.
Anyway, for there to be NO option to transfer tickets just doesn't seem reasonable to me. Shit happens to a LOT of people to prevent them from making the show they have tix to. Emergencies, work schedules, etc etc. If there is absolutely no way to give a ticket to someone as a gift or so that tickets don't go to waste, we'd be seeing a lot more empty seats at shows, which would totally suck.

It's a no win scenario. I think your idea people would give their credit card info to a scalper. Alternatively the scalper could transfer the tickets onto a visa gift card (As they are required to work just like real credit cards). It's a no win. If you create openings to transfer tickets than scalpers will use them too. They're pretty clever. They already work around the paperless tickets system by buying tickets on visa gift cards. They always figure it out.

It's like the legal system. If you make laws too tough and the burden of proof quite low, then you put a lot of innocent people in jail. If you make the burden of proof quite high, then you let a lot of guilty people go free. There's no black or white. Either method has drawbacks. It's the same with tickets. The more ways you make the tickets transferable the more scalpers will figure out how to abuse it. The harsher the rules the harder it is for scalpers but the worse it is for legit people. The more loose you make the laws the better it is for scalpers... I don't think there is a win scenario. Right now I think the paperless tickets thing is the best idea so far. As people have mentioned even it's not fool proof.

I liked the small move the tragically hip did here in Victoria. It's not leaps and bounds but all the tickets on the floor and close sections in the wings are will call only. At least at a minimum, it prevents people from out of the area on scalping the tickets. It's not a leap but it's a small step. Someone living in Ontario or somewhere far away won't be able to show up to pick up their tickets.

deagator3

Definitely not a simple solution, and I can almost see a "be careful for what you ask for because you might just get it" aspect to paperless tickets with credit card verification.

I have mixed feelings about all of this, but I've also learned how to use the present system in place to my benefit more often than not.

First of all, the amount of concerts/events that involve scalpers making money are still very low in the grand scheme of things. Heck, for all of Pearl Jam's Florida shows (along with other shows on this tour, I'm sure) you could have purchased tickets for well below face value on Stubhub in the days leading up to the event, some at almost a 50 percent discount. That's not a bad option for people who don't have deep pockets. I've used Stubhub to my benefit more often than to my detriment and have gotten great tickets (first few rows,etc) for games and shows at well below face value that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to afford at the listed face value. The amount of times I've gone above face value I can probably count on one hand and I go to plenty of concerts and games.

Obviously you couldn't implement credit card verification at sporting events, because, well, you'd eliminate the season ticket base and checking to make sure the ID's and credit cards match would create an even greater headache upon entry with baseball crowds of 40,000+ and football crowds of 80,000+.

Colleges are having problems getting students to come to their games now even with huge discounted student prices, because they are finding it more and more difficult to get young people to stay engaged for hours at time, hence why places like the University of Florida are spending thousands to improve their WiFi at Ben Hill Griffin Stadium. Will that attitude make it less likely for younger people to make the purchase if they can't get rid of tickets closer to show time? Don't think that sports teams and promoters aren't aware of the demands of the new generation. Will people buy tickets 6 months in advance for an outdoor venue if they are worried about the weather being unseasonably warm or cold knowing they have no alternative other than to eat their tickets? Hardcore fans won't care either way, but hardcore fans are still a minority when it comes to who attends the shows/events. For Pearl Jam I would buy tickets well in advance even if I couldn't transfer them, but for most other bands I'd pass on buying seats I otherwise would purchase in advance and then maybe, or more than likely, probably not, buy tickets closer to the show if available.

In other words, how would it effect overall attendance, especially on the majority of shows that aren't as high in demand? And would bands then raise their ticket prices to make up for possible fewer ticket sales? Would acts implement variable pricing to match demand? Would you prefer to pay a "face" value of $200 for a show instead of paying $150 in the secondary market for a show with a face value of $100? The Cubs, along with other teams, have implemented variable pricing for games in a way to hinder the secondary market. They will still have some of the best seats in the house available directly from the box office, but at a premium. I used to get great seats for face value just before game time up until this year (even in 2003 and 2008, not just the lean years), but now they are priced too high for my blood. I did however buy first row tickets for well under face value for a game this year though from a ticket broker. Granted, it was cold out, but I know that I wouldn't sit in those seats otherwise.

Pearl Jam is one of the exceptions to the rule when actually caring about the fans and proving it with their actions. It's why the 10 Club Ticketing Option is so great, because they actually put their best seats in the hands of their fans and aren't secretly making a buck. They are, however, generally the exception to the rule.

For smaller venue with obviously high demand shows the credit card / ID option would be a viable. Of course it would have to involve acts that are willing to forego guaranteed money.
And, of course, then inevitably many fans would be angry when they get shut out of these shows and then have no alternate way to get in since the tickets can't be transferred. I missed out on the Fenway Shows and I'm looking forward to going with some of my best friends. Inevitably I'll end up paying a premium for seats and I'll have a great time, and that certainly beats the alternative of just not going like somebody recommended in this thread. I'd rather have that as an option than knowing I can't get in at all because purchased tickets can't be transferred.

PP193448

You're kidding me that students need wifi at a stadium while they are there to watch/support their college team... What, so they can update their Facebook status. Ridiculous. Stay the fuck home.

benjs

on2legs said:

The Internet is also a huge culprit In this whole mess. It used to be that scalpers were shady guys lurking in the shadows of a venue. Now thanks to stubhub, eBay, and the Internet anyone can be a ticket scalper.

You can't apply a tool like the internet selectively. If we're to say that the internet is a largely unregulated forum where we have the right to say or do as we please, we have to accept that this could include housing a free market where we can buy or sell at what ever value a person may put on a product or service. The culprit is not the internet (which is an unconscious tool), the culprit is a tremendous lack of regulation that allows this industry to exist and flourish.

Our PM Trudeau made an absurd statement when looking at the Tragically Hip ticket resale prices, when he said that the "industry should be able to police itself". That's crap - an industry will not police itself when not policing itself increases profits. Want scalping to cease to exist? This requires government legislation limiting or eliminating selling tickets for above face value. That's literally the only way.

LeafsJaysCubsRaptorsFan

Everything should be facial recognition. When you purchase the ticket, your computer/phone automatically takes a picture of you. When you enter the venue your picture is displayed. If it doesn't match you are turned away. I think Disney does this or tried it. Customs does this at airports now. Maybe I'm just a dreamer and full of stupid ideas/thoughts lol

MayDay10

good post deagator

HesCalledDyer

PP193448 said:

You're kidding me that students need wifi at a stadium while they are there to watch/support their college team... What, so they can update their Facebook status. Ridiculous. Stay the fuck home.

At Ben Hill Griffin Stadium, I don't know that lack of wifi is necessarily the issue. It's probably the shitty teams the Gators have been fielding for the last 5 years.

Go Noles!

HughFreakingDillon

PP193448 said:

You're kidding me that students need wifi at a stadium while they are there to watch/support their college team... What, so they can update their Facebook status. Ridiculous. Stay the fuck home.

quite sickening indeed.

Zod

LeafsJaysCubsRaptorsFan said:

Everything should be facial recognition. When you purchase the ticket, your computer/phone automatically takes a picture of you. When you enter the venue your picture is displayed. If it doesn't match you are turned away. I think Disney does this or tried it. Customs does this at airports now. Maybe I'm just a dreamer and full of stupid ideas/thoughts lol

The question would end up, would ticketmaster/the promoters/the venues want to spend the money to install and maintain high tech systems like that? I think whatever the solution is, it needs to be easy, and cost effective. If not, then there's not going to be a big incentive for those 3 entities to implement it.

lexicondevil

Ticketless with no credit card required. When you buy your tickets you must input a name for every two tickets. When you enter the venue, the original buyer must show their government ID and bring in their "plus one". Yes, scalpers could sell their plus one, but they would have to physically attend the show. I know this doesn't work if something happens and you can't make a show, but I've eaten tickets because I couldn't attend and it wasn't the end of the world.

pjhawks

this notion that it's harder today to get tickets than ever is just pure bullshit. in fact, at least since around the mid 1990s, it's actually easier then ever to get tickets to any event you choose if you want/can pay the cost. before the internet and re-sell sites if you didn't get tickets at the on-sale you were most likely shit out of luck unless you took your chances with a shady guy outside the venue. today i can click on sites any day or any time of the week and find available tickets to any show or even i want if willing to pay the cost. and at least the one site i have used guarantees their tickets. sure costs are higher than ever but so is availability. it's supply and demand at work.

the only ones being screwed by today's market are the artists themselves. I don't know what the solution is to that other than letting artists print their own tickets but that fight was lost in 1990s. Artists of today can blame groups like Green Day who sided up to ticketmaster during the PJ/Justice Department fight or those that took no stance with PJ.

Zod

That's true. I found it harder in the 90s, just before everything moved to the internet. I've had over 15 years to sign up for the e-mail lists of my favourite bands. If a band I like tours, I get an email about it, and quite often a presale code. Back in the 90s I missed all sorts of stuff because the only way to find out about them seemed to be the radio. Sometimes by the time I heard a band was playing Vancouver it was after the onsale date

Then there was standing in line. Nothing like standing in line for a good spot, only to find out it's random wristband policy, end up at the back, and miss out on tickets. It was hard getting tickets back then, and it's still hard today. Scalping was very active back then too (except broker companies were much more prolific, now we have stubhub which is a service that individuals can use).

So yah, your point is valid. It wasn't a cakewalk getting tickets pre-internet either. The easiest time I ever had getting tickets was the early internet days (when all the geeks were buying on the internet, but the luddites were still in line). I got so many good tickets back then, before the masses adapted to the internet. At the end of 90's I also figured out that all the Ticketmaster outlets were networked. Pre-Internet, I would call the TM outlet in Brandon, Manitoba to buy tickets for concerts in Vancouver. They went on sale at the same time, but the Vancouver line would be nothing but busy signal. I always got through in a few seconds to the rep in Brandon So for me the pinnacle was late 90's/early 00's. Anything outside of that has taken considerable effort to get tickets.

pjalive21

this makes me appreciate the 10C so much more

LeafsJaysCubsRaptorsFan

Zod said:

That's true. I found it harder in the 90s, just before everything moved to the internet. I've had over 15 years to sign up for the e-mail lists of my favourite bands. If a band I like tours, I get an email about it, and quite often a presale code. Back in the 90s I missed all sorts of stuff because the only way to find out about them seemed to be the radio. Sometimes by the time I heard a band was playing Vancouver it was after the onsale date

Then there was standing in line. Nothing like standing in line for a good spot, only to find out it's random wristband policy, end up at the back, and miss out on tickets. It was hard getting tickets back then, and it's still hard today. Scalping was very active back then too (except broker companies were much more prolific, now we have stubhub which is a service that individuals can use).

So yah, your point is valid. It wasn't a cakewalk getting tickets pre-internet either. The easiest time I ever had getting tickets was the early internet days (when all the geeks were buying on the internet, but the luddites were still in line). I got so many good tickets back then, before the masses adapted to the internet. At the end of 90's I also figured out that all the Ticketmaster outlets were networked. Pre-Internet, I would call the TM outlet in Brandon, Manitoba to buy tickets for concerts in Vancouver. They went on sale at the same time, but the Vancouver line would be nothing but busy signal. I always got through in a few seconds to the rep in Brandon So for me the pinnacle was late 90's/early 00's. Anything outside of that has taken considerable effort to get tickets.

I used to call in a little bit early, ask about an event that was already onsale and just stall until 10am. Lol! Worked every time

MayDay10

The worst part is ticketmasters obvious intent to give bots a leg up. It has gotten exponentially harder to score tickets since they implemented the silly picture games


They post all over that bots are not allowed to use the site. Isnt that kind of false advertising?

deagator3

PP193448 said:

You're kidding me that students need wifi at a stadium while they are there to watch/support their college team... What, so they can update their Facebook status. Ridiculous. Stay the fuck home.

That is what they are doing. That's the new generation and what promoters and sports teams are facing. Thus, safeguards to make sure that the people that bought the seats are in fact using the seats won't be a concern for them - they are more worried about filling the seats:

www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304795804579097223907738780


"We can't afford to lose a generation," said Mississippi State athletic director Scott Stricklin, a member of the SEC's committee on the game-day experience.

HughFreakingDillon

pjhawks said:

this notion that it's harder today to get tickets than ever is just pure bullshit. in fact, at least since around the mid 1990s, it's actually easier then ever to get tickets to any event you choose if you want/can pay the cost. before the internet and re-sell sites if you didn't get tickets at the on-sale you were most likely shit out of luck unless you took your chances with a shady guy outside the venue. today i can click on sites any day or any time of the week and find available tickets to any show or even i want if willing to pay the cost. and at least the one site i have used guarantees their tickets. sure costs are higher than ever but so is availability. it's supply and demand at work.

the only ones being screwed by today's market are the artists themselves. I don't know what the solution is to that other than letting artists print their own tickets but that fight was lost in 1990s. Artists of today can blame groups like Green Day who sided up to ticketmaster during the PJ/Justice Department fight or those that took no stance with PJ.

it wasn't harder. it took longer, but I never got shut out. I spent a long time on the phone calling for U2 tickets for Popmart, but I eventually got through. I never got shut out of big tickets like Metallica, Green Day, Aerosmith, Pink Floyd, any of them. EVER. I camped out for tickets, but I got them. Now it's not so easy. And no, the artists are not getting screwed. some of the artists are the ones doing the screwing, if that former TM CEO is to be believed, putting it in their contract that a certain amount of tickets get the super-inflated treatment, or go to their friends, family, the list goes on. the artist only gets screwed if the tickets don't sell, and that clearly is not the case here.

Zod

I still haven't been shutout of a show I really wanted to go to. It seems if I'm diligent and try all the presale, regular sales, and then routinely check for ticket drops, I always get in. I've only ever used Scalper's twice. Once in '98 to get tickets to Metallica in Barrie, ON. The 2nd to buy baseball tickets for a Mariners/Yankees game in the early 00's (we saw stabbing westward in Vancouver the night before, and made an audible to to drive to Seattle after to see a ball game, but it was sold out).

I took never got shutout of U2's popmart tour, but to be fair the actual show didn't sell out. I think what we're also seeing is many of us are still seeing the same bands we wanted to see in our younger years. Money was way more tight back then. Many people our age(s) have more disposable income than a 20 year old. Fewer Arena quality bands are touring, and the people that want to see them have more disposable income. It seems to me the premium on scalper tickets is much higher than it used to be, which tells me that demand for concert tickets is higher than it used to be.

Spark28

MayDay10 said:

The worst part is ticketmasters obvious intent to give bots a leg up. It has gotten exponentially harder to score tickets since they implemented the silly picture games


They post all over that bots are not allowed to use the site. Isnt that kind of false advertising?

I can post a sign saying people are not allowed to walk on my lawn, it doesn't mean that people will actually honor it.

Spark28

pjhawks said:

And no, the artists are not getting screwed. some of the artists are the ones doing the screwing, if that former TM CEO is to be believed, putting it in their contract that a certain amount of tickets get the super-inflated treatment, or go to their friends, family, the list goes on. the artist only gets screwed if the tickets don't sell, and that clearly is not the case here.

The good seats are worth what someone will pay for them. Resale is going to happen. Would you rather see a scalper receive the "super-inflated" price or the artist?

I also find it hard to be upset that artists want good holds for friends and family. If you are playing somewhere, wouldn't you want your friends or family up close? I would assume that friends and family would be fans as well.