Police abuse

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  • dignindignin Posts: 5,198
    ^^^
    Are you having a slow Sunday Often?  That post seems oddly out of place for you.  Usually you are more subdued and offer your opinions.  


    Stick to the topic.

    See posting guidelines. 
  • dignin said:
    ^^^
    Are you having a slow Sunday Often?  That post seems oddly out of place for you.  Usually you are more subdued and offer your opinions.  


    Stick to the topic.

    See posting guidelines. 

    Thanks.

    Sorry Often.


    Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not. Both ideas are overwhelming. AE
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 2,795

    It's a hopeless situation...
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 9,233
    I took the police to court for issuing me a wrongful citation.

    WV city cop pulls me over:  "I pulled you over because you're driving an uninspected vehicle."
    Me:  The vehicle is inspected, sir.
    Cop: Where are your inspection stickers?
    Me: I'm a Maryland resident.  Maryland doesn't issue inspection stickers.
    Cop: Why do you have West Virginia tags?
    Me: They're temporary tags.  I bought the car in West Virginia.
    Cop: If you have WV tags, you need a WV inspection.
    Me: They're temporary tags, sir.  Dealerships do not issue out of state temporary tags.
    Cop: Well, you need to have the car inspected.
    Me: It is inspected.  It's inspected for Maryland because I'm a Maryland resident. The car will be registered in Maryland.
    Cop: But you have WV tags.
    Me: I know, I bought the car in WV.  It even states on the temporary registration that the car will not be registered in WV, it will be registered in MD.
    Cop: Why do you have WV tags if you live in MD?
    Me: They're temporary tags, I purchased the car at a WV dealership. They don't issue out of state temporaries.
    Cop: Well, the bottom line is you need to have your car inspected to have WV tags.
    Me: I'm not trying to be rude, but what are you not understanding? I'm a MD resident, the car was purchased in WV, it is inspected for my state of residence, out-of-state temps are not issued. It says all of this on the temporary registration.
    Cop: Sir, you have WV tags on your car and no inspection stickers. I'm going to have to issue you a citation for failure to inspect.
    Me: It is inspec... just give me the ticket, I'll see you in court.

    Now, the sad thing is, after all that, I went to the circuit court and the judge gave me the same fucking runaround.  I contacted the WV State Police and my dad's friend who is a lawyer.  Went to court again a week later.  Citation was erased from my record.

    Granted I know this isn't brutality or anything super serious... but it was harrassment and a waste of my time and money (the city was about 45 miles away and I had to drive there 2 consecutive weekends to deal with that bullshit).

    About a week later I received a letter of apology from the City Police Dept which pulled me over. It was fucking glorious.
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 2,795
    I took the police to court for issuing me a wrongful citation.

    WV city cop pulls me over:  "I pulled you over because you're driving an uninspected vehicle."
    Me:  The vehicle is inspected, sir.
    Cop: Where are your inspection stickers?
    Me: I'm a Maryland resident.  Maryland doesn't issue inspection stickers.
    Cop: Why do you have West Virginia tags?
    Me: They're temporary tags.  I bought the car in West Virginia.
    Cop: If you have WV tags, you need a WV inspection.
    Me: They're temporary tags, sir.  Dealerships do not issue out of state temporary tags.
    Cop: Well, you need to have the car inspected.
    Me: It is inspected.  It's inspected for Maryland because I'm a Maryland resident. The car will be registered in Maryland.
    Cop: But you have WV tags.
    Me: I know, I bought the car in WV.  It even states on the temporary registration that the car will not be registered in WV, it will be registered in MD.
    Cop: Why do you have WV tags if you live in MD?
    Me: They're temporary tags, I purchased the car at a WV dealership. They don't issue out of state temporaries.
    Cop: Well, the bottom line is you need to have your car inspected to have WV tags.
    Me: I'm not trying to be rude, but what are you not understanding? I'm a MD resident, the car was purchased in WV, it is inspected for my state of residence, out-of-state temps are not issued. It says all of this on the temporary registration.
    Cop: Sir, you have WV tags on your car and no inspection stickers. I'm going to have to issue you a citation for failure to inspect.
    Me: It is inspec... just give me the ticket, I'll see you in court.

    Now, the sad thing is, after all that, I went to the circuit court and the judge gave me the same fucking runaround.  I contacted the WV State Police and my dad's friend who is a lawyer.  Went to court again a week later.  Citation was erased from my record.

    Granted I know this isn't brutality or anything super serious... but it was harrassment and a waste of my time and money (the city was about 45 miles away and I had to drive there 2 consecutive weekends to deal with that bullshit).

    About a week later I received a letter of apology from the City Police Dept which pulled me over. It was fucking glorious.
    Congratulations on your well deserved justice. There's nothing more I hate then arrogant and ignorant traffic police. They are the fucking worst. They either cite you for something completely asinine or inaccurate and it's way more expensive to fight it then just roll over and pay it. I wish they would enact a statue that required the city to repay you all lost wages and cost of travel if it is found that the ticket wasn't legit. Instead that a-hole got a bunch of OT to appear in court for his bogus ticket. They should have to forfeit the OT pay to the defendant.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • ^^^
    They are the worst?  Do you have an incident that pertains to you that one would consider police abuse?


    Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not. Both ideas are overwhelming. AE
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 9,233
    tbergs said:

    Congratulations on your well deserved justice. There's nothing more I hate then arrogant and ignorant traffic police. They are the fucking worst. They either cite you for something completely asinine or inaccurate and it's way more expensive to fight it then just roll over and pay it. I wish they would enact a statue that required the city to repay you all lost wages and cost of travel if it is found that the ticket wasn't legit. Instead that a-hole got a bunch of OT to appear in court for his bogus ticket. They should have to forfeit the OT pay to the defendant.
    Here's the kicker.  I was 18 at the time.  Cop must've thought he was going to pull one over on some unsuspecting kid, but didn't realize this kid knew more of the law than he cared to admit.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,250
    Stay safe out there in OK, Officer Betty Shelby is back in the field.

    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,522
    I agree that there should be some compensation for someone who fights a ticket and wins. As mentioned, many just pay for it because it isn't worth the 2 days taking off work to fight it.
    But that's all the court system, it is designed to deter people from fighting tickets.You need to show up to court just to declare you plan to fight it, which takes at least half a day if not longer.
    Then 2 or 3 weeks later take another day off to come back and actually fight it. I see no reason in the modern world this has to be done in person for a traffic ticket, other than to deter people from fighting it, many who would win but would rather pay the fee than take 2 days off of work.
    Happened to me about a year ago, but the increase to my insurance was worth the fight over it, and I won. But then I still feel like I lost after wasting 2 vacation days over it.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 5,818
    mace1229 said:
    I agree that there should be some compensation for someone who fights a ticket and wins. As mentioned, many just pay for it because it isn't worth the 2 days taking off work to fight it.
    But that's all the court system, it is designed to deter people from fighting tickets.You need to show up to court just to declare you plan to fight it, which takes at least half a day if not longer.
    Then 2 or 3 weeks later take another day off to come back and actually fight it. I see no reason in the modern world this has to be done in person for a traffic ticket, other than to deter people from fighting it, many who would win but would rather pay the fee than take 2 days off of work.
    Happened to me about a year ago, but the increase to my insurance was worth the fight over it, and I won. But then I still feel like I lost after wasting 2 vacation days over it.
    It must depend on where you live. My experience has been that you show up at the time indicated, wait a little bit for your turn, then make your case to the judge. Done. 
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero GalaxyPosts: 17,337
    edited September 1
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/utah-nurse-arrested-refusing-give-patient-s-blood-police-n798021



    Even an health care worker an RN can be arrested for abiding by the law while at work in Utah.....unreal.

    Peace
    Post edited by g under p on
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,250
    This is a nice little example of what happens when you question a cop's authority.
    In this case, it was a white female nurse protecting the rights of a non-criminal victim.
    She was %100 in the right, backed by many professionals and still, when his authority was questioned beyond what his ego could handle, he snapped and attacked the nurse.
    It's nice and clear cut, it makes me think of all the people who are abused in this way that are just as much within their right to question, but don't have the privilege which is protecting this nurse.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero GalaxyPosts: 17,337
    rgambs said:
    This is a nice little example of what happens when you question a cop's authority.
    In this case, it was a white female nurse protecting the rights of a non-criminal victim.
    She was %100 in the right, backed by many professionals and still, when his authority was questioned beyond what his ego could handle, he snapped and attacked the nurse.
    It's nice and clear cut, it makes me think of all the people who are abused in this way that are just as much within their right to question, but don't have the privilege which is protecting this nurse.
    That nurse has a right to also protect the rights of citizens/patients especially when the patient was unable to give his or her consent to give blood. Officer lost his cool when he was unable to get what he wanted.....he should've completely made sure he was correct to make sure that arrest was justified however he apparently allowed his anger to get the best of him.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 470
    And imagine if it wasn't recorded.  "There's got to be more to the story."
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 6,182
    g under p said:
    rgambs said:
    This is a nice little example of what happens when you question a cop's authority.
    In this case, it was a white female nurse protecting the rights of a non-criminal victim.
    She was %100 in the right, backed by many professionals and still, when his authority was questioned beyond what his ego could handle, he snapped and attacked the nurse.
    It's nice and clear cut, it makes me think of all the people who are abused in this way that are just as much within their right to question, but don't have the privilege which is protecting this nurse.
    That nurse has a right to also protect the rights of citizens/patients especially when the patient was unable to give his or her consent to give blood. Officer lost his cool when he was unable to get what he wanted.....he should've completely made sure he was correct to make sure that arrest was justified however he apparently allowed his anger to get the best of him.

    Peace
    She doesn't just have a right, she has a legal and ethical duty not to turn medical information over to the police except in very circumscribed situations. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Asshole cop. 

    For sure.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,250
    She should have just complied, if you don't comply with police demands this is what you should expect.
    I tell my son that all the time, if this was him, I'd be more upset with him than I would with the officer.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero GalaxyPosts: 17,337
    rgambs said:
    She should have just complied, if you don't comply with police demands this is what you should expect.
    I tell my son that all the time, if this was him, I'd be more upset with him than I would with the officer.
    Wait a minute so are saying that even though the officer was incorrect in wanting blood drawn without a warrant or the patient being charged or their consent you want her to comply. That patient could be me or your family member, you want that nurse draw blood even the officer was wrong. Sorry but they're times when one has to stand up for the law even if it means risking arrest. I've had to do the same when an officer tried to tell me radar detectors were illegal in the state of NC Outer Banks and a speeding ticket without her radar gun. She had back off from both tickets when I stood up for myself and let me go without any citation. She was straight up wrong or didn't know the law.

    I'm on my phone but I'll try to find the video that shows the entire incident. 

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • rgambs said:
    She should have just complied, if you don't comply with police demands this is what you should expect.
    I tell my son that all the time, if this was him, I'd be more upset with him than I would with the officer.
    This is a lot different than the non compliant cases where some loser has broken the law, tried to elude authorities and resisted arrest- resulting in levels of force you disapprove of.

    I recognize your sarcasm and understand the connection you are feebily trying to make.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 470
    So apparently that Utah incident happened a month ago.  Nobody was saying much until the video hit the Web.  It looks like no discipline would not have been an issue had that not happened.

    The police have probably always felt empowered to do as they wish.  But now with most Americans supporting their killing of unarmed blacks and believing them every time they say "my life is in danger" they really don't worry too much about consequences for their actions.  This footage was very damning and very complete.  We're not usually going to have access to this telling of a video.   We'll usually just assume "they had it coming."
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero GalaxyPosts: 17,337
    edited September 5


    Here's a bit more to this story and arrest watch the whole video it gives great incite. To me it looks like she's pregnant.

    Peace
    Post edited by g under p on
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,522
    Even if the nurse was wrong by not drawing blood, I don't see how that is an arrestable offense. Seems like that is something that should be reported to and dealt with by the hospital and her superiors. 

    I didn't see in the article what the blood was being drawn for? I don't know about Utah, but in many states, a driver's license is your permission to give a blood-alcohol test. And if you are unconscious, then drawing blood is probably the way they'd measure it. So if this had something to do with driving and testing for alcohol then its likely the permission was already granted by simply having a driver's license. Other than that, I don't know why they needed it right then.
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 2,967
    mace1229 said:
    Even if the nurse was wrong by not drawing blood, I don't see how that is an arrestable offense. Seems like that is something that should be reported to and dealt with by the hospital and her superiors. 

    I didn't see in the article what the blood was being drawn for? I don't know about Utah, but in many states, a driver's license is your permission to give a blood-alcohol test. And if you are unconscious, then drawing blood is probably the way they'd measure it. So if this had something to do with driving and testing for alcohol then its likely the permission was already granted by simply having a driver's license. Other than that, I don't know why they needed it right then.
    It's interesting how this is all playing out. There is no implied consent in Utah, so they can not draw your blood without a warrant. The nurse knew this and called her supervisor, who agreed. The cop disagreed and called his supervisor, who also disagreed. The person who's blood they were trying to draw is also a cop, but from Idaho. That person is not suspected of causing the accident. I think the person who caused the accident was proven to be drunk and is now dead. There is speculation the cop was trying to get the other cop's blood to prove his innocence, should his sobriety ever be questioned down the road, like a wrongful death lawsuit. So now you have a situation where a cop is willing to break the law and arrest a citizen to protect another cop.
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  • tbergstbergs Posts: 2,795
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Even if the nurse was wrong by not drawing blood, I don't see how that is an arrestable offense. Seems like that is something that should be reported to and dealt with by the hospital and her superiors. 

    I didn't see in the article what the blood was being drawn for? I don't know about Utah, but in many states, a driver's license is your permission to give a blood-alcohol test. And if you are unconscious, then drawing blood is probably the way they'd measure it. So if this had something to do with driving and testing for alcohol then its likely the permission was already granted by simply having a driver's license. Other than that, I don't know why they needed it right then.
    It's interesting how this is all playing out. There is no implied consent in Utah, so they can not draw your blood without a warrant. The nurse knew this and called her supervisor, who agreed. The cop disagreed and called his supervisor, who also disagreed. The person who's blood they were trying to draw is also a cop, but from Idaho. That person is not suspected of causing the accident. I think the person who caused the accident was proven to be drunk and is now dead. There is speculation the cop was trying to get the other cop's blood to prove his innocence, should his sobriety ever be questioned down the road, like a wrongful death lawsuit. So now you have a situation where a cop is willing to break the law and arrest a citizen to protect another cop.
    That is a twisted web, but where would you have stood if no one had forced blood from the unconscious cop? Are they protecting him then too? We all know the speculation that would occur once it was released that they didn't check his blood for alcohol, since everyone is literally out for blood with any incident involving a cop.

    I agree though, according to the state law, there was no authority to draw blood. I would guess he arrested on the basic premise of "obstructing", which is the other half to the throw away arrest of disorderly conduct. If you've got nothing else, those two will always fit in to any narrative you need.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 6,182
    edited September 5
    tbergs said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Even if the nurse was wrong by not drawing blood, I don't see how that is an arrestable offense. Seems like that is something that should be reported to and dealt with by the hospital and her superiors. 

    I didn't see in the article what the blood was being drawn for? I don't know about Utah, but in many states, a driver's license is your permission to give a blood-alcohol test. And if you are unconscious, then drawing blood is probably the way they'd measure it. So if this had something to do with driving and testing for alcohol then its likely the permission was already granted by simply having a driver's license. Other than that, I don't know why they needed it right then.
    It's interesting how this is all playing out. There is no implied consent in Utah, so they can not draw your blood without a warrant. The nurse knew this and called her supervisor, who agreed. The cop disagreed and called his supervisor, who also disagreed. The person who's blood they were trying to draw is also a cop, but from Idaho. That person is not suspected of causing the accident. I think the person who caused the accident was proven to be drunk and is now dead. There is speculation the cop was trying to get the other cop's blood to prove his innocence, should his sobriety ever be questioned down the road, like a wrongful death lawsuit. So now you have a situation where a cop is willing to break the law and arrest a citizen to protect another cop.
    That is a twisted web, but where would you have stood if no one had forced blood from the unconscious cop? Are they protecting him then too? We all know the speculation that would occur once it was released that they didn't check his blood for alcohol, since everyone is literally out for blood with any incident involving a cop.

    I agree though, according to the state law, there was no authority to draw blood. I would guess he arrested on the basic premise of "obstructing", which is the other half to the throw away arrest of disorderly conduct. If you've got nothing else, those two will always fit in to any narrative you need.
    I don't believe there would have been any outcry if the unconscious man'a blood wasn't tested for alcohol, since (a) it wasn't legal, and (b) he isn't accused any legal wrongdoing. 
     
    Post edited by oftenreading on
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 2,795
    tbergs said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Even if the nurse was wrong by not drawing blood, I don't see how that is an arrestable offense. Seems like that is something that should be reported to and dealt with by the hospital and her superiors. 

    I didn't see in the article what the blood was being drawn for? I don't know about Utah, but in many states, a driver's license is your permission to give a blood-alcohol test. And if you are unconscious, then drawing blood is probably the way they'd measure it. So if this had something to do with driving and testing for alcohol then its likely the permission was already granted by simply having a driver's license. Other than that, I don't know why they needed it right then.
    It's interesting how this is all playing out. There is no implied consent in Utah, so they can not draw your blood without a warrant. The nurse knew this and called her supervisor, who agreed. The cop disagreed and called his supervisor, who also disagreed. The person who's blood they were trying to draw is also a cop, but from Idaho. That person is not suspected of causing the accident. I think the person who caused the accident was proven to be drunk and is now dead. There is speculation the cop was trying to get the other cop's blood to prove his innocence, should his sobriety ever be questioned down the road, like a wrongful death lawsuit. So now you have a situation where a cop is willing to break the law and arrest a citizen to protect another cop.
    That is a twisted web, but where would you have stood if no one had forced blood from the unconscious cop? Are they protecting him then too? We all know the speculation that would occur once it was released that they didn't check his blood for alcohol, since everyone is literally out for blood with any incident involving a cop.

    I agree though, according to the state law, there was no authority to draw blood. I would guess he arrested on the basic premise of "obstructing", which is the other half to the throw away arrest of disorderly conduct. If you've got nothing else, those two will always fit in to any narrative you need.
    I don't believe there would have been any outcry if the unconscious man'a blood wasn't tested for alcohol, since (a) it wasn't legal, and (b) he isn't accused any legal wrongdoing. 
     
    You are putting a lot of faith in the media not spinning this.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 5,818
    tbergs said:
    tbergs said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Even if the nurse was wrong by not drawing blood, I don't see how that is an arrestable offense. Seems like that is something that should be reported to and dealt with by the hospital and her superiors. 

    I didn't see in the article what the blood was being drawn for? I don't know about Utah, but in many states, a driver's license is your permission to give a blood-alcohol test. And if you are unconscious, then drawing blood is probably the way they'd measure it. So if this had something to do with driving and testing for alcohol then its likely the permission was already granted by simply having a driver's license. Other than that, I don't know why they needed it right then.
    It's interesting how this is all playing out. There is no implied consent in Utah, so they can not draw your blood without a warrant. The nurse knew this and called her supervisor, who agreed. The cop disagreed and called his supervisor, who also disagreed. The person who's blood they were trying to draw is also a cop, but from Idaho. That person is not suspected of causing the accident. I think the person who caused the accident was proven to be drunk and is now dead. There is speculation the cop was trying to get the other cop's blood to prove his innocence, should his sobriety ever be questioned down the road, like a wrongful death lawsuit. So now you have a situation where a cop is willing to break the law and arrest a citizen to protect another cop.
    That is a twisted web, but where would you have stood if no one had forced blood from the unconscious cop? Are they protecting him then too? We all know the speculation that would occur once it was released that they didn't check his blood for alcohol, since everyone is literally out for blood with any incident involving a cop.

    I agree though, according to the state law, there was no authority to draw blood. I would guess he arrested on the basic premise of "obstructing", which is the other half to the throw away arrest of disorderly conduct. If you've got nothing else, those two will always fit in to any narrative you need.
    I don't believe there would have been any outcry if the unconscious man'a blood wasn't tested for alcohol, since (a) it wasn't legal, and (b) he isn't accused any legal wrongdoing. 
     
    You are putting a lot of faith in the media not spinning this.
    I wouldn't see this making a peep. There's limits on how evidence can be gathered that the majority of the country is used to. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,522
    tbergs said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Even if the nurse was wrong by not drawing blood, I don't see how that is an arrestable offense. Seems like that is something that should be reported to and dealt with by the hospital and her superiors. 

    I didn't see in the article what the blood was being drawn for? I don't know about Utah, but in many states, a driver's license is your permission to give a blood-alcohol test. And if you are unconscious, then drawing blood is probably the way they'd measure it. So if this had something to do with driving and testing for alcohol then its likely the permission was already granted by simply having a driver's license. Other than that, I don't know why they needed it right then.
    It's interesting how this is all playing out. There is no implied consent in Utah, so they can not draw your blood without a warrant. The nurse knew this and called her supervisor, who agreed. The cop disagreed and called his supervisor, who also disagreed. The person who's blood they were trying to draw is also a cop, but from Idaho. That person is not suspected of causing the accident. I think the person who caused the accident was proven to be drunk and is now dead. There is speculation the cop was trying to get the other cop's blood to prove his innocence, should his sobriety ever be questioned down the road, like a wrongful death lawsuit. So now you have a situation where a cop is willing to break the law and arrest a citizen to protect another cop.
    That is a twisted web, but where would you have stood if no one had forced blood from the unconscious cop? Are they protecting him then too? We all know the speculation that would occur once it was released that they didn't check his blood for alcohol, since everyone is literally out for blood with any incident involving a cop.

    I agree though, according to the state law, there was no authority to draw blood. I would guess he arrested on the basic premise of "obstructing", which is the other half to the throw away arrest of disorderly conduct. If you've got nothing else, those two will always fit in to any narrative you need.
    I thought the same thing. Its pretty tough to know what was in their head, unless they admit it then its all speculation. When a fatality is involved I'm sure that changes everything as well.
    And I did a quick Google search, first 2 results say Utah does in fact have an implied consent law. If they have reason to suspect of believe drugs and/or alcohol are involved. There's probably similar laws with regards to a fatality accident as well.
    That being said, even if the nurse was wrong I don't think they handled it properly. Give her a citation (one equal to the citation that someone would get if they refused to take the DUI test), create a formal complaint with the nursing board or something, but no need to drag her off in cuffs.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 37,148
    Incredibly awful story of law enforcement repeatedly tasering an 18 year old suspect who was already fully restrained. No other reason for it than vindictiveness, pure and simple. The facebook post by the local sheriff about the arrest is also disgusting.

    http://www.salon.com/2017/08/06/deputies-tasered-teenager-strapped-to-chair-for-nearly-a-minute_partner/

    Yup, that's torture, plain and simple. Those cops should go to prison.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,250
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Even if the nurse was wrong by not drawing blood, I don't see how that is an arrestable offense. Seems like that is something that should be reported to and dealt with by the hospital and her superiors. 

    I didn't see in the article what the blood was being drawn for? I don't know about Utah, but in many states, a driver's license is your permission to give a blood-alcohol test. And if you are unconscious, then drawing blood is probably the way they'd measure it. So if this had something to do with driving and testing for alcohol then its likely the permission was already granted by simply having a driver's license. Other than that, I don't know why they needed it right then.
    It's interesting how this is all playing out. There is no implied consent in Utah, so they can not draw your blood without a warrant. The nurse knew this and called her supervisor, who agreed. The cop disagreed and called his supervisor, who also disagreed. The person who's blood they were trying to draw is also a cop, but from Idaho. That person is not suspected of causing the accident. I think the person who caused the accident was proven to be drunk and is now dead. There is speculation the cop was trying to get the other cop's blood to prove his innocence, should his sobriety ever be questioned down the road, like a wrongful death lawsuit. So now you have a situation where a cop is willing to break the law and arrest a citizen to protect another cop.
    That is a twisted web, but where would you have stood if no one had forced blood from the unconscious cop? Are they protecting him then too? We all know the speculation that would occur once it was released that they didn't check his blood for alcohol, since everyone is literally out for blood with any incident involving a cop.

    I agree though, according to the state law, there was no authority to draw blood. I would guess he arrested on the basic premise of "obstructing", which is the other half to the throw away arrest of disorderly conduct. If you've got nothing else, those two will always fit in to any narrative you need.
    I thought the same thing. Its pretty tough to know what was in their head, unless they admit it then its all speculation. When a fatality is involved I'm sure that changes everything as well.
    And I did a quick Google search, first 2 results say Utah does in fact have an implied consent law. If they have reason to suspect of believe drugs and/or alcohol are involved. There's probably similar laws with regards to a fatality accident as well.
    That being said, even if the nurse was wrong I don't think they handled it properly. Give her a citation (one equal to the citation that someone would get if they refused to take the DUI test), create a formal complaint with the nursing board or something, but no need to drag her off in cuffs.
    That was a specific part of the argument, the officer didn't demonstrate probable cause because the victim was hit by a suspect fleeing.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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