Police abuse

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Comments

  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,736
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    And he could have just as easily shifted out of the way.
    Leaped away for his safety!

    "Pshew! Did you see that, guys? Did you see how that idiot almost ran me down, but I managed to leap out of the way? Pshew!"

    Unsung... I might not even do that on the street let alone expect a cop to do it in the line of duty. If some idiot flies at me on his skateboard expecting me to avoid him... I might or I might not depending on my mood. But if I decide to (using a phrase you love dearly) stand my ground and knock the skateboarder off his board... that's on him. Skateboarders should not expect people to be scattering left and right as they wheel by them.
    Cincy and Thirty,

    So a person should have some personal responsibility?  Someone that age should know right from wrong?
    Ummmm  so a person riding a skateboard down a street has some personal responsibility?  Yup.
    So hypothetically if that collision happens in a parallel universe and the skater suffers a broken neck and becomes paralyzed it is his fault?
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 5,490
    I found the video funny. I like when idiots get hurt by being idiots. Sk8ter Boi intentionally went flying through an area that the cops were trying to control. He took a direct line at the cop, perhaps trying to be funny, perhaps trying to be an asshat. Either way, he got an object lesson in physics, and hopefully that new education will serve him in the future.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 8,663
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    And he could have just as easily shifted out of the way.
    Leaped away for his safety!

    "Pshew! Did you see that, guys? Did you see how that idiot almost ran me down, but I managed to leap out of the way? Pshew!"

    Unsung... I might not even do that on the street let alone expect a cop to do it in the line of duty. If some idiot flies at me on his skateboard expecting me to avoid him... I might or I might not depending on my mood. But if I decide to (using a phrase you love dearly) stand my ground and knock the skateboarder off his board... that's on him. Skateboarders should not expect people to be scattering left and right as they wheel by them.
    Cincy and Thirty,

    So a person should have some personal responsibility?  Someone that age should know right from wrong?
    Ummmm  so a person riding a skateboard down a street has some personal responsibility?  Yup.
    So hypothetically if that collision happens in a parallel universe and the skater suffers a broken neck and becomes paralyzed it is his fault?
    If he skates into a restricted area and gets hurt...yup.  But I'm sure a jury would be the ones to decide.  But if I'm on it.....
    hippiemom = goodness
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 9,537
    On the court, that's an offensive foul, folks. Charging. 

    Check. Ball in. 
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 9,537
    There was this story on the local news a few nights ago about this cracker who went into a local radio station with an ax to request an Insane Clown Posse song. The bizarre request resulted in an hourslong standoff with the police (SWAT, even) while he drank beer in his car, rammed a few police cruisers, and threw his ax and I think some knives at the cops before finally surrendering with his hands up.

    My wife after watching the segment: "Boy, white people get away with anything, don't they?"
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 8,663
    dankind said:
    There was this story on the local news a few nights ago about this cracker who went into a local radio station with an ax to request an Insane Clown Posse song. The bizarre request resulted in an hourslong standoff with the police (SWAT, even) while he drank beer in his car, rammed a few police cruisers, and threw his ax and I think some knives at the cops before finally surrendering with his hands up.

    My wife after watching the segment: "Boy, white people get away with anything, don't they?"
    Well they don't get away with it.  But they certainly appear to get stopped less for BS little things and get the benefit of the doubt more.  Cops tend to not think they will do the worst possible thing at every moment.  It is very weird.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,418
    dankind said:
    There was this story on the local news a few nights ago about this cracker who went into a local radio station with an ax to request an Insane Clown Posse song. The bizarre request resulted in an hourslong standoff with the police (SWAT, even) while he drank beer in his car, rammed a few police cruisers, and threw his ax and I think some knives at the cops before finally surrendering with his hands up.

    My wife after watching the segment: "Boy, white people get away with anything, don't they?"
    Your story ends with him being arrested. What exactly did he get away with?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,418
    Read an article about it.

    https://www.google.com/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4685056/amp/Ax-wielding-man-prompts-standoff-radio-song-request.html

    He he was in the car when police arrived and state he wasn't threatening with the ax at that point. Does say he rammed a police vehicle (most likely empty) but never threatened police with an ax or knife. Was in the car during the standoff drinking beer. Shooting him would have not been justified with those circumstances.
    im confused with this anti-cop mentality. So now people want cops to shoot more? Sounds like the complaint here is they didn't shoot a white guy, even though it wasn't warranted. 
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 9,086
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    And he could have just as easily shifted out of the way.
    Leaped away for his safety!

    "Pshew! Did you see that, guys? Did you see how that idiot almost ran me down, but I managed to leap out of the way? Pshew!"

    Unsung... I might not even do that on the street let alone expect a cop to do it in the line of duty. If some idiot flies at me on his skateboard expecting me to avoid him... I might or I might not depending on my mood. But if I decide to (using a phrase you love dearly) stand my ground and knock the skateboarder off his board... that's on him. Skateboarders should not expect people to be scattering left and right as they wheel by them.
    Cincy and Thirty,

    So a person should have some personal responsibility?  Someone that age should know right from wrong?
    Ummmm  so a person riding a skateboard down a street has some personal responsibility?  Yup.
    That's a pretty shitty judgment.
  • dignindignin Posts: 5,102
    mace1229 said:
    Read an article about it.

    https://www.google.com/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4685056/amp/Ax-wielding-man-prompts-standoff-radio-song-request.html

    He he was in the car when police arrived and state he wasn't threatening with the ax at that point. Does say he rammed a police vehicle (most likely empty) but never threatened police with an ax or knife. Was in the car during the standoff drinking beer. Shooting him would have not been justified with those circumstances.
    im confused with this anti-cop mentality. So now people want cops to shoot more? Sounds like the complaint here is they didn't shoot a white guy, even though it wasn't warranted. 
    Whoosh!
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 6,043
    mace1229 said:
    dankind said:
    There was this story on the local news a few nights ago about this cracker who went into a local radio station with an ax to request an Insane Clown Posse song. The bizarre request resulted in an hourslong standoff with the police (SWAT, even) while he drank beer in his car, rammed a few police cruisers, and threw his ax and I think some knives at the cops before finally surrendering with his hands up.

    My wife after watching the segment: "Boy, white people get away with anything, don't they?"
    Your story ends with him being arrested. What exactly did he get away with?
    His life 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,066
    mace1229 said:
    dankind said:
    There was this story on the local news a few nights ago about this cracker who went into a local radio station with an ax to request an Insane Clown Posse song. The bizarre request resulted in an hourslong standoff with the police (SWAT, even) while he drank beer in his car, rammed a few police cruisers, and threw his ax and I think some knives at the cops before finally surrendering with his hands up.

    My wife after watching the segment: "Boy, white people get away with anything, don't they?"
    Your story ends with him being arrested. What exactly did he get away with?
    His life 
    Yep, unlike Philando Castille, John Crawford, and Tamir Rice for instance.
    Oh yeah, that's right, none of them were even breaking the law.  
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 8,663
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    And he could have just as easily shifted out of the way.
    Leaped away for his safety!

    "Pshew! Did you see that, guys? Did you see how that idiot almost ran me down, but I managed to leap out of the way? Pshew!"

    Unsung... I might not even do that on the street let alone expect a cop to do it in the line of duty. If some idiot flies at me on his skateboard expecting me to avoid him... I might or I might not depending on my mood. But if I decide to (using a phrase you love dearly) stand my ground and knock the skateboarder off his board... that's on him. Skateboarders should not expect people to be scattering left and right as they wheel by them.
    Cincy and Thirty,

    So a person should have some personal responsibility?  Someone that age should know right from wrong?
    Ummmm  so a person riding a skateboard down a street has some personal responsibility?  Yup.
    That's a pretty shitty judgment.
    Huh?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,736
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:
    dankind said:
    There was this story on the local news a few nights ago about this cracker who went into a local radio station with an ax to request an Insane Clown Posse song. The bizarre request resulted in an hourslong standoff with the police (SWAT, even) while he drank beer in his car, rammed a few police cruisers, and threw his ax and I think some knives at the cops before finally surrendering with his hands up.

    My wife after watching the segment: "Boy, white people get away with anything, don't they?"
    Your story ends with him being arrested. What exactly did he get away with?
    His life 
    Yep, unlike Philando Castille, John Crawford, and Tamir Rice for instance.
    Oh yeah, that's right, none of them were even breaking the law.  
    Eric Garner, LaVoy Finicum...
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,418
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    Read an article about it.

    https://www.google.com/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4685056/amp/Ax-wielding-man-prompts-standoff-radio-song-request.html

    He he was in the car when police arrived and state he wasn't threatening with the ax at that point. Does say he rammed a police vehicle (most likely empty) but never threatened police with an ax or knife. Was in the car during the standoff drinking beer. Shooting him would have not been justified with those circumstances.
    im confused with this anti-cop mentality. So now people want cops to shoot more? Sounds like the complaint here is they didn't shoot a white guy, even though it wasn't warranted. 
    Whoosh!
    You're right, it's over my head. If you could please explain how a single case of a white man who wasn't an immediate threat to cops wasn't shot proves there is a mass epidemic with police. Because with that same logic a single case of a black man surviving a police encounter would disprove it. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,418
    edited July 16
    I don't think there are zero bad cops or there hasn't ever been a wrongful death at the hands of cops.
    what I don't agree with is this anti-cop movement. A movement that gained its momentum with Michael Brown.
    And ever since any time a black man dies at the hands of police it's because he was black.  "Open season on blacks" and other slogans are thrown around to give the impression that if you're black and stopped by police, then you're as good as dead.
    there are over half a million cops here, with just as many police encounters ever Day. Resulting in tens of millions of police encounters a month. I disagree with half of the cases now famous that the police were at fault. But that means I do agree with some. Some were just bad judgement or bad policing and not everything boils down to race though.  It seems often there are many incorrect facts reported by the media or false witnesses to put the blame on cops, and the word and testimony of cops are always assumed to be false. An example is this last case. Stated the guy threw an ax and knives at cops which lead to the comment "we'll if he was black...""" but none of that was true. Too many are too eager to jump on the anti-cop racists bandwagon and be part of the next movement. But I can't buy into the epidemic with over a half a dozen cases in 2-3 years when tens of millions of interactions end without incident every month. And the phrases "he'd still be alive if he was white" or "he'd be dead if he was black" are thrown around without any thought put into them. These statements put unwarranted fear in people which only make the problem worse. Many of the names thrown around weren't cases of police abuse. Some were tragic, absolutely, but there wasn't any evidence of police wrongdoing in some of these cases now made famous. And a jury of 12 chosen to be unbiased by both sides and who were forced to listen to weeks of testimony and.not just a single news article agree.
    Policing could be made better, but it's far from the devil it's made out to be. The number of teachers who molest children are far greater than the number of police even accused of abuse, but no one cries out for some teacher pedo epidemic.  And this mentality actually hurts people. Cops hesitate to defend themselves or intervene to save lives over fear of prosecution. This false mentality has consequences. Stop labeling cops as bad as a whole (which you do which many of the statements that have become all too common). 
    That's probably what is most frustrating to me. Any error made by police is often interpreted as intentional and racists, when any job with human is going to have human error. I'm all for minimizing the human error, but this race card only makes it worse, not better.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 2,620
    Well, this one sounds pretty horse shit. Doesn't make any sense. Seems like a bad shooting from top to bottom.

    http://m.startribune.com/woman-killed-in-officer-involved-shooting-in-south-minneapolis/434782213/
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,418
    tbergs said:
    Well, this one sounds pretty horse shit. Doesn't make any sense. Seems like a bad shooting from top to bottom.

    http://m.startribune.com/woman-killed-in-officer-involved-shooting-in-south-minneapolis/434782213/
    Doesn't look good. But I bet this one gets little coverage and is quickly forgotten.
  • mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    Well, this one sounds pretty horse shit. Doesn't make any sense. Seems like a bad shooting from top to bottom.

    http://m.startribune.com/woman-killed-in-officer-involved-shooting-in-south-minneapolis/434782213/
    Doesn't look good. But I bet this one gets little coverage and is quickly forgotten.
    At first read... it seems like one of the worst ones yet.

    A woman calls 9-11, goes out to meet the cops at their vehicle, and is shot dead while talking to them at the car? 
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,066
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    Well, this one sounds pretty horse shit. Doesn't make any sense. Seems like a bad shooting from top to bottom.

    http://m.startribune.com/woman-killed-in-officer-involved-shooting-in-south-minneapolis/434782213/
    Doesn't look good. But I bet this one gets little coverage and is quickly forgotten.
    At first read... it seems like one of the worst ones yet.

    A woman calls 9-11, goes out to meet the cops at their vehicle, and is shot dead while talking to them at the car? 
    Brutal, my guess is that there is more to the story.  How could there not be?  A pretty white woman in pajamas shot by the passenger through the driver's door?  It's nuts.  Lover's quarrel? 

    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 438
    This one is very interesting.  The fact that she's white adds a ton of layers.  What if the cop is convicted?  What would that tell black Americans?  What if the cop's not convicted?  Does that wake the rest of us up?  Do people just stop calling the police?

    Maybe there's more to the story.  But so often, there's not.
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,418
    OnWis97 said:
    This one is very interesting.  The fact that she's white adds a ton of layers.  What if the cop is convicted?  What would that tell black Americans?  What if the cop's not convicted?  Does that wake the rest of us up?  Do people just stop calling the police?

    Maybe there's more to the story.  But so often, there's not.
    You can't even ask those questions with zero information out. The cops could be 100% at fault (and very likely are) but it doesn't mean anything criminal occurred and therefore no conviction. It be something like accidental discharge, which wouldn't always be a criminal act, could be liable in civil court but not criminal. So at this point it doesn't say anything.
    With no other information available, accidental discharge does seem like a possibility. Shooting over the driver and through the door is not likely a planned shot.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,066
    edited July 17
    mace1229 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    This one is very interesting.  The fact that she's white adds a ton of layers.  What if the cop is convicted?  What would that tell black Americans?  What if the cop's not convicted?  Does that wake the rest of us up?  Do people just stop calling the police?

    Maybe there's more to the story.  But so often, there's not.
    You can't even ask those questions with zero information out. The cops could be 100% at fault (and very likely are) but it doesn't mean anything criminal occurred and therefore no conviction. It be something like accidental discharge, which wouldn't always be a criminal act, could be liable in civil court but not criminal. So at this point it doesn't say anything.
    With no other information available, accidental discharge does seem like a possibility. Shooting over the driver and through the door is not likely a planned shot.
    It sure as shit should be a criminal charge!  

    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,736
    I don't care about a black or white conviction.  Why are police shooting so many people?  The cop shot through the opposite door, why did this coward even have his gun out?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/justine-damond-shot-dead-by-officer-fiance-gives-emotional-statement/
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,418
    edited July 18
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    This one is very interesting.  The fact that she's white adds a ton of layers.  What if the cop is convicted?  What would that tell black Americans?  What if the cop's not convicted?  Does that wake the rest of us up?  Do people just stop calling the police?

    Maybe there's more to the story.  But so often, there's not.
    You can't even ask those questions with zero information out. The cops could be 100% at fault (and very likely are) but it doesn't mean anything criminal occurred and therefore no conviction. It be something like accidental discharge, which wouldn't always be a criminal act, could be liable in civil court but not criminal. So at this point it doesn't say anything.
    With no other information available, accidental discharge does seem like a possibility. Shooting over the driver and through the door is not likely a planned shot.
    It sure as shit should be a criminal charge!  

    Why?
    if you're followg the law but someone does as a result you should be charged? People die of gun accidents and hunting accidents without breaking the law. They are sometimes held accountable civilly (financially) but not always criminally. If it turns out to be a clear accident, and I'm not saying it is because we have no idea at this point, why would this be any different? Should every hunter involved in a hunting accident be charged as well? Should Dick Cheney be charged with attempted murder because he shot someone? Accidents do happen without criminal means.
    what about driving? You cause an accident and someone does. You can be sued in civil court, but you want them criminally charged too? That only happens if reckless driving or drugs are involved, but people die of just plain car accidents every day and many go without criminal charges. People die on the worksite as a result of someone else's mistake and aren't charged criminally. Restaurants catch on fire because of an accident, but they aren't charged with arsen. 
    I'm not saying do nothing. If it were an accidental shooting the cop should be fired and he and the department sued in civil court, but there's no criminal law he broke that would justify filing criminal charges in many of the possible circumstances. 
    So to ask the question at this point and imply how insulting it will be for black if the cop is convicted and how messed up the system is if he isn't is just a reckless statement.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,066
    mace1229 said:
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    This one is very interesting.  The fact that she's white adds a ton of layers.  What if the cop is convicted?  What would that tell black Americans?  What if the cop's not convicted?  Does that wake the rest of us up?  Do people just stop calling the police?

    Maybe there's more to the story.  But so often, there's not.
    You can't even ask those questions with zero information out. The cops could be 100% at fault (and very likely are) but it doesn't mean anything criminal occurred and therefore no conviction. It be something like accidental discharge, which wouldn't always be a criminal act, could be liable in civil court but not criminal. So at this point it doesn't say anything.
    With no other information available, accidental discharge does seem like a possibility. Shooting over the driver and through the door is not likely a planned shot.
    It sure as shit should be a criminal charge!  

    Why?
    if you're followg the law but someone does as a result you should be charged? People die of gun accidents and hunting accidents without breaking the law. They are sometimes held accountable civilly (financially) but not always criminally. If it turns out to be a clear accident, and I'm not saying it is because we have no idea at this point, why would this be any different? Should every hunter involved in a hunting accident be charged as well? Should Dick Cheney be charged with attempted murder because he shot someone? Accidents do happen without criminal means.
    what about driving? You cause an accident and someone does. You can be sued in civil court, but you want them criminally charged too? That only happens if reckless driving or drugs are involved, but people die of just plain car accidents every day and many go without criminal charges. People die on the worksite as a result of someone else's mistake and aren't charged criminally. Restaurants catch on fire because of an accident, but they aren't charged with arsen. 
    I'm not saying do nothing. If it were an accidental shooting the cop should be fired and he and the department sued in civil court, but there's no criminal law he broke that would justify filing criminal charges in many of the possible circumstances. 
    So to ask the question at this point and imply how insulting it will be for black if the cop is convicted and how messed up the system is if he isn't is just a reckless statement.
    None of those scenarios involve intentionally pointing a gun at someone and then accidentally shooting them.  Anyways, yes, when you make a mistake and someone dies because of it, you should be charged with a crime.  Not necessarily murder or manslaughter, but negligence that should be met with punitive measures.  Even if fines and probation are the only punishment, causing someone's death should come with a criminal record.
    Hunting is a little different because all parties involved understand the risk, a police officer shouldn't be pointing a gun at anybody without a damn good reason.  Without a damn good reason, it should be a crime.

    We had a famous (locally) case here in Canton, OH where an officer was having a bad day and pulled his gun on a man and threatened to "blow his fucking head off".
    The man had calmly, with his hands firmly on the steering wheel, informed the officer that he had a CC permit and was carrying a loaded firearm on his right hip.
    That cop should have been charged with reckless endangerment, but he wasn't even punished.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 8,072
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    Well, this one sounds pretty horse shit. Doesn't make any sense. Seems like a bad shooting from top to bottom.

    http://m.startribune.com/woman-killed-in-officer-involved-shooting-in-south-minneapolis/434782213/
    Doesn't look good. But I bet this one gets little coverage and is quickly forgotten.
    At first read... it seems like one of the worst ones yet.

    A woman calls 9-11, goes out to meet the cops at their vehicle, and is shot dead while talking to them at the car? 
    you don't walk into an alley where you just reported an assault. wait for the cops to come to you.  that being said hard to fathom why the cop even pulled a gun let alone pulled the trigger.  even if accidental why was the gun out at that point if still in the car?  as for the body cams do they turn them on when still in the car?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,418
    In many scenarios I would agree with you. My point was we know nearly nothing about the case, and the statement I disagree with was something about how are black people going to feel when this cop is convicted for killing a white girl, and if he isn't convicted then that's a huge wake up call for America.
    hunting accidents don't always involve another hunter. Sometimes hikers or other unaware bystanders are involved and have no idea anyone is around hunting. It typically only leads to a crime if the gun was illegally fired or owned (not hunting season, no hunting permitted in the area, etc.)
    there are just lots of reasons I could see the cop being at fault but not criminally liable. And maybe he should be convicted, we just don't know.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,736
    pjhawks said:
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    Well, this one sounds pretty horse shit. Doesn't make any sense. Seems like a bad shooting from top to bottom.

    http://m.startribune.com/woman-killed-in-officer-involved-shooting-in-south-minneapolis/434782213/
    Doesn't look good. But I bet this one gets little coverage and is quickly forgotten.
    At first read... it seems like one of the worst ones yet.

    A woman calls 9-11, goes out to meet the cops at their vehicle, and is shot dead while talking to them at the car? 
    you don't walk into an alley where you just reported an assault. wait for the cops to come to you.  that being said hard to fathom why the cop even pulled a gun let alone pulled the trigger.  even if accidental why was the gun out at that point if still in the car?  as for the body cams do they turn them on when still in the car?
    They were responding to a call about a reported sexual assault, most normal people would expect the pretty blonde woman in her pajamas to be the possible victim.
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