Police abuse

unsungunsung Posts: 7,736
edited July 2014 in A Moving Train
http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/apollo-dog-hometown-illinois/

I'm starting to believe I need to carry a defensive firearm just so I can protect my dog when I take him for a walk.
Post edited by unsung on
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Comments

  • EarlWelshEarlWelsh Buffalo, NYPosts: 808
    Glad to see action was taken.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 15,915
    did anybody see the daily show last night? they talked about how the african american gentle giant in new york was placed in a chokehold for allegedly selling untaxed cigarettes. he ended up dying. contrast that with the white guy who was carrying a gun and virtually asking for the cops to shoot or injure him, and he got a stern talking to, and got to keep his gun.

    just pointing out how cops treat armed vs unarmed people.
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,736
    Maybe there's something to that.
    I posted on the guy getting choked to death, it's bullshit and it needs to stop.


    Maybe someone can answer me this...

    You are walking down the street, minding your own business, doing nothing wrong and someone tackles you and starts beating you into submission. What do you do?


  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 9,040
    unsung said:

    Maybe there's something to that.
    I posted on the guy getting choked to death, it's bullshit and it needs to stop.


    Maybe someone can answer me this...

    You are walking down the street, minding your own business, doing nothing wrong and someone tackles you and starts beating you into submission. What do you do?


    Loaded open ended question. Great question, but loaded.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 15,915
    unsung said:

    Maybe there's something to that.
    I posted on the guy getting choked to death, it's bullshit and it needs to stop.


    Maybe someone can answer me this...

    You are walking down the street, minding your own business, doing nothing wrong and someone tackles you and starts beating you into submission. What do you do?


    i am not able to answer this. back in 2008-2011 i was doing mma and bjj so, i am a little better at calmly taking beatings than a lot of people.

    i do know with 100% certainty that i would not pull a george zimmerman though.
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,736
    You are getting beat to the point of passing out, again you haven't done anything wrong.

    What do you do? Be general. Do you pass out or do you fight back?
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 15,915
    unsung said:

    You are getting beat to the point of passing out, again you haven't done anything wrong.

    What do you do? Be general. Do you pass out or do you fight back?

    it depends.

    it depends on if i saw the guy and where he was. it depends on where he hits me. if he hits me in the back of the head and i don't see him, i would be in trouble and end up passing out. if he squares up on me in front of me and hits me, i have a better chance. after that, it depends on positioning. if i am on my back, like zimmerman, i am grabbing and pulling him on top of me. like as close to chest to chest as possible so he can't strike me with his hands. he would have to bite or headbutt me, or try to elbow me, but if he is a big guy he probably is not flexible enough to throw dangerous elbows if he is up on me chest to chest like that. it is called putting them into the guard. haymakers are from distance. if you watch ufc, most guys use this strategy because it keeps them from getting ko'd. you can eat a lot of quick shots from up close with relatively little damage because they do not have that big distance to gain momentum and velocity. this was my biggest issue with zimmerman's defense. if trayvon was pummeling him quickly he would have struggled to get his gun because he would have been getting jackhammered with quick shots. i was not a wrestler so i was never freaked out about being on my back. i worked most submissions better from my back. but all of this depends on the situation. these days i would try to get away. it is not worth it to even strike a cop, even if in self defense, because if i survive and there is evidence i struck him, i am the one going to jail because the law is on the side of the officer.
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,736
    You're missing my point, it really is this simple.

    You're about to die, do you fight back or just die?
  • fifefife Posts: 3,046
    unsung said:

    You're missing my point, it really is this simple.

    You're about to die, do you fight back or just die?

    when you say " you are missing my point" in reality you are just saying tell me what I want to hear. of course you fight back. the question is how do you fight back.

    as alot of people here have said, if you have 2 people walking down the street and both have any type of weapon, the one who is looking to use for violence will always have an advantage over the one using it for protection.
  • This theme was in another recent thread.

    If you are being attacked... you owe your attackers nothing. And you don't 'inch up' to the level of self-defence the situation demands either.

    I'm not saying mow them down the moment words are exchanged, but if you had the wherewithal and a weapon... pulling it and announcing your intent to use it would be a prudent measure of self defence. If this wasn't enough for your attackers and they wished to pursue matters knowing a weapon (gun) was in hand... well... I guess that's their prerogative.

    Having said that... two things:

    1. I don't own a gun, but am capable of handling myself in most situations. I never go looking for it, but am aware of my surroundings and the potential for trouble in them. I would react fast and decisively to any clear and present menace. It wouldn't take someone punching me or trying to choke me out before I would look to defend myself.

    2. The Trayvon case came up in one of these posts. What I described above and what I think happened there are two different things. From what I can gather... Trayvon was the 'attacked' (given he was stalked by Zimmerman) and baited into an altercation and a no win situation.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,736
    Ok, now why does your response change because your attacker happens to be a cop?

    Same thing, life or death. Fight back or submit?
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 6,414
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/07/29/george-zimmerman-pompano-pats-florida/13315441/

    yeah about Zimmerman...

    This guy is a one man vigilante crew. This is the same story as the night he killed Trayvon except he didn't encounter anyone before the police questioned him. He was taking it upon himself to watch for "bad guys"....I get the store owner regrets giving him a gun.
    Former BernieBro, turned Hillary rotten Clinton #1 Fanboy

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
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  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 11,782
    edited July 2014
    unsung said:

    Ok, now why does your response change because your attacker happens to be a cop?

    Same thing, life or death. Fight back or submit?

    I think anytime you are dealing with the police, you have to take a leap of faith that they will act as they have been trained to do.

    We know where you are going with this Unsung. The isolated incidents you continue to post on here of cops acting badly are 'outliers' compared to the infinite amount of good policing that occurs on a daily basis.

    If a person is respectful and cooperative, 99.99999% of the time... police do not place you in choke holds.

    Edit: So submit. But even before that... don't let your attitude allow the situation to spiral out of control.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,736

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/07/29/george-zimmerman-pompano-pats-florida/13315441/

    yeah about Zimmerman...

    This guy is a one man vigilante crew. This is the same story as the night he killed Trayvon except he didn't encounter anyone before the police questioned him. He was taking it upon himself to watch for "bad guys"....I get the store owner regrets giving him a gun.


    Please keep the Zimmerman stuff out of this thread. This is about police abuse.
  • fifefife Posts: 3,046
    unsung said:
    so question about this article. if you are a police officer responding to a break in and you see a dog coming around how would you respond? the article itself says that the owner could understand why the police officer shot the dog but didn't understand why the cop would not let the dog go to the vet.

    my question for you is, lets say you hear a noise in your backyard and you went outside and right away you see a dog that you didn't know running to you, how would you respond?

    I think raising issues of police violence is very important but this story doesn't really portray that.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    unsung said:

    Maybe there's something to that.
    I posted on the guy getting choked to death, it's bullshit and it needs to stop.


    Maybe someone can answer me this...

    You are walking down the street, minding your own business, doing nothing wrong and someone tackles you and starts beating you into submission. What would do ?


    guess.....


    Godfather.

    it dosen't matter to me what a man dose for a living you understand..
    as long as his interest's don't conflict with mine.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    lets not start going after all police officers, your dog wouldn't amount to a hill of shit if we didn't have them...anybody remember what happened during katrina, looting killing robbing it was a freakin free for all....


    Godfather.
    it dosen't matter to me what a man dose for a living you understand..
    as long as his interest's don't conflict with mine.
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    unsung said:

    Ok, now why does your response change because your attacker happens to be a cop?

    Same thing, life or death. Fight back or submit?

    Till you've had a cop jump on you......

    If you resist and cop identified himself your chances went down. Likely they have gun and I won't. If I had a gun not getting into gun battle with them. Yes it sucks but it is what it is.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • fife said:

    unsung said:
    so question about this article. if you are a police officer responding to a break in and you see a dog coming around how would you respond? the article itself says that the owner could understand why the police officer shot the dog but didn't understand why the cop would not let the dog go to the vet.

    my question for you is, lets say you hear a noise in your backyard and you went outside and right away you see a dog that you didn't know running to you, how would you respond?

    I think raising issues of police violence is very important but this story doesn't really portray that.
    Unsung thinks cops should be bitten before they should look to defend themselves against... dogs. The owner even understood why the cop shot the dog. As for not allowing the owner to take the dog to the vet... who knows? They were responding to a house alarm according to the story. I'm going to assume that the cop was following protocol for house alarm callouts as well as for dog shootings instead of simply being cruel.

    And in his crusade against every police officer in the country... he needs to posts these types of stories to try and make his case. For every one of these stories, there are countless others of cops doing good to great things. Every poor cop story is major news... but teeny weeny (yes... teeny weeny) little events in the bigger picture. Let's not set our hair on fire.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 6,414
    edited July 2014
    unsung said:

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/07/29/george-zimmerman-pompano-pats-florida/13315441/

    yeah about Zimmerman...

    This guy is a one man vigilante crew. This is the same story as the night he killed Trayvon except he didn't encounter anyone before the police questioned him. He was taking it upon himself to watch for "bad guys"....I get the store owner regrets giving him a gun.


    Please keep the Zimmerman stuff out of this thread. This is about police abuse.
    Please don't ask me to not mention Zimmerman when another post (the post I was responding to) mentions Zimmerman.

    Former BernieBro, turned Hillary rotten Clinton #1 Fanboy

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,736
    Fair enough.

    Please keep this thread discussion limited to official police. Please send the Zimmerman garbage to one of those threads. I'm trying to keep the police stories here to maintain one thread and not multiple.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,736

    fife said:

    unsung said:
    so question about this article. if you are a police officer responding to a break in and you see a dog coming around how would you respond? the article itself says that the owner could understand why the police officer shot the dog but didn't understand why the cop would not let the dog go to the vet.

    my question for you is, lets say you hear a noise in your backyard and you went outside and right away you see a dog that you didn't know running to you, how would you respond?

    I think raising issues of police violence is very important but this story doesn't really portray that.
    Unsung thinks cops should be bitten before they should look to defend themselves against... dogs. The owner even understood why the cop shot the dog. As for not allowing the owner to take the dog to the vet... who knows? They were responding to a house alarm according to the story. I'm going to assume that the cop was following protocol for house alarm callouts as well as for dog shootings instead of simply being cruel.

    And in his crusade against every police officer in the country... he needs to posts these types of stories to try and make his case. For every one of these stories, there are countless others of cops doing good to great things. Every poor cop story is major news... but teeny weeny (yes... teeny weeny) little events in the bigger picture. Let's not set our hair on fire.

    I'd go back inside.

    I post these stories to show that police aren't saints, they aren't to be revered, they aren't immune to criticism. I don't care how much they make, I don't care about their problems, they signed up for the job. They can quit. Do something less dangerous, less stressful.

    Those good cops out there that see the abuse of the bad ones but keep their mouths shut are just as guilty, can't violate that stupid thin blue line.

    But yeah, they are just doing their jobs.
  • unsung said:

    fife said:

    unsung said:
    so question about this article. if you are a police officer responding to a break in and you see a dog coming around how would you respond? the article itself says that the owner could understand why the police officer shot the dog but didn't understand why the cop would not let the dog go to the vet.

    my question for you is, lets say you hear a noise in your backyard and you went outside and right away you see a dog that you didn't know running to you, how would you respond?

    I think raising issues of police violence is very important but this story doesn't really portray that.
    Unsung thinks cops should be bitten before they should look to defend themselves against... dogs. The owner even understood why the cop shot the dog. As for not allowing the owner to take the dog to the vet... who knows? They were responding to a house alarm according to the story. I'm going to assume that the cop was following protocol for house alarm callouts as well as for dog shootings instead of simply being cruel.

    And in his crusade against every police officer in the country... he needs to posts these types of stories to try and make his case. For every one of these stories, there are countless others of cops doing good to great things. Every poor cop story is major news... but teeny weeny (yes... teeny weeny) little events in the bigger picture. Let's not set our hair on fire.

    I'd go back inside.

    I post these stories to show that police aren't saints, they aren't to be revered, they aren't immune to criticism. I don't care how much they make, I don't care about their problems, they signed up for the job. They can quit. Do something less dangerous, less stressful.

    Those good cops out there that see the abuse of the bad ones but keep their mouths shut are just as guilty, can't violate that stupid thin blue line.

    But yeah, they are just doing their jobs.
    I'm not going to argue with much of this post- there's not much wrong with it.

    What I would say though is, certainly, we can respect cops for what they do- just as we respect a plumber for doing what they do... a teacher for what they do... a transport driver for what they do... and every other job that has its unique characteristics that make for difficult days sometimes. I would also fairly say that the difficult days for cops are a little more difficult than the office clerk's or any of those other professions I listed a moment ago.

    *** And what do you mean you'd go back inside? Do you mean you would run away from the dog that is attacking you and hide in your car? Having cops running and hiding from threats they encounter on the job can't be what you mean.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • chadwickchadwick up my assPosts: 21,083
    in my opinion you have a problem with all cops or anyone w/ authority of any kind. how about calm the frig down for once?
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 6,414
    How much easier would the job of a policeman be if we had stricter gun laws?

    Imagine having to fear getting shot every time you pull over a speeder.
    Former BernieBro, turned Hillary rotten Clinton #1 Fanboy

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
  • chadwickchadwick up my assPosts: 21,083
    guns would still be around with stricter laws. nasty shits do not care about gun laws.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • chadwick said:

    in my opinion you have a problem with all cops or anyone w/ authority of any kind. how about calm the frig down for once?

    Classic.

    However... Chadwick, please reserve any of your opinions for Chadwick's Opinion Thread.

    As Unsung pointed out: Please keep this thread discussion limited to official police.


    :D
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • chadwickchadwick up my assPosts: 21,083
    darn it... foiled again

    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
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