haha yes brothers tell it like it is or they arent worth anything. The para-military aspect has always been a thorn in my side. When men get together and form "brotherhoods" trouble ensues. Look at the way soldiers behave on the battlefield, whatever army they serve, when you put a weapon in their hands they turn into monsters. We have to do a better job in training them, teach them to be more like social workers and less like soldiers!! Also, weed out those with the "jarhead" attitude because it has no place patrolling the streets.
we have this thing in Toronto which is call the crisis mobile team. its usually 2 cops and a social worker and 1 mental health nurse. basically their jobs is to assist people in mental health crisis in getting to a hospital. the police get training around mental health and addictions and non violent interventions. i have been calling on the city to actually make that training mandatory for all police. all the cops i know love it.
concerning the jarhead mentality, i could not agree with you more. I wonder if that attitude happens more in small towns or in large cities. i have grown up in a large city all my life but i have friends in the usa who comes from small towns and they tell me stories about like highschool football players being gods in their cities.
yes i am small town in ohio. Picture corn feilds and oil wells lol i can say that the "jarhead mentality" i am talking about is probably more prevalent in small towns. Like you said and unsung also, the big shots languish after highschool glory and many turn to police work. Small communities have a wonderful investment in the youth and this "highschool celebrity" that ensues is an ugly side effect. The funny thing is, that paramilitary attitude would be much more appropriate in a large city than a small town. Not saying it is effective, but at least your "brothers" need you looking out for them. I love the sound of the program you are talking about in Toronto. I would bet that every year there are close to millions of arrests, citations, and confrontations that would never have happened if the officer involved had simply talked to the civillians like human beings who deserve respect AND compassion.
Toronto Police have recently been damaged with alot of bad cases where they have shot people with mental health issues. its a damm shame, . I had a client who was killed by a cop about 1 year ago. when you talk to cops, they don't get alot of training around mental health. i once called the crisis mobile team as i had a client who had a gun to his head in front of me and they were amazing with this client. they were able to calm him down and got him directly into a mental health program which sadly are hard to get into. after talking to these cops, they also realize that people with mental health issues and addictions issue don't belong in jails but in hospitals and detoxs.
i believe that police forces need to do alot of work in their communities to fix the preconception that people like unsung have.
here is a funny story, i remember my first day on my job and I had to go to the biggest men shelter in i believe Canada at 7:30 am. on one side of the street, there were people smoking crack in broad daylight and on the other side you had like 4 cop cars. both sides didn't do anything. I talked to my client and he said the police leave them alone. I talked to a cop afterward and he told me that he was there to make sure that nothing got out of control as you get alot of violent people at the shelter when people get their welfare and they are there to make sure that people don't get hurt.
this builds trust and cops have to get better at doing that.
My stepfather became a cop back in the early 80's iirc. People did it back them because it was a decent job and they actually wanted to help people.
Now it's a different mentality, and I know because I dated a female officer. Most of them have these holier than thou attitudes where they really believe that they are special. Instead of doing good for the community they sign on because of the thrill, plus many are out of the military so it's a natural fit.
Someone else hit it on the nose, a lot are the jocks that bullied people, or the people that never got invited to parties so it's a head trip for them.
I don't know if its fair to label all police officer as holier than thou cause you dated 1 female cop who was like that. .
do you really believe that it is not better for any industry to have more people wanting a job than job themselves?
again no one here has said that all police are great or even good. what we are saying is that most are pretty good.
I certainly know more than just her, I grew up around it. I saw the changes first hand.
haha yes brothers tell it like it is or they arent worth anything. The para-military aspect has always been a thorn in my side. When men get together and form "brotherhoods" trouble ensues. Look at the way soldiers behave on the battlefield, whatever army they serve, when you put a weapon in their hands they turn into monsters. We have to do a better job in training them, teach them to be more like social workers and less like soldiers!! Also, weed out those with the "jarhead" attitude because it has no place patrolling the streets.
we have this thing in Toronto which is call the crisis mobile team. its usually 2 cops and a social worker and 1 mental health nurse. basically their jobs is to assist people in mental health crisis in getting to a hospital. the police get training around mental health and addictions and non violent interventions. i have been calling on the city to actually make that training mandatory for all police. all the cops i know love it.
concerning the jarhead mentality, i could not agree with you more. I wonder if that attitude happens more in small towns or in large cities. i have grown up in a large city all my life but i have friends in the usa who comes from small towns and they tell me stories about like highschool football players being gods in their cities.
yes i am small town in ohio. Picture corn feilds and oil wells lol i can say that the "jarhead mentality" i am talking about is probably more prevalent in small towns. Like you said and unsung also, the big shots languish after highschool glory and many turn to police work. Small communities have a wonderful investment in the youth and this "highschool celebrity" that ensues is an ugly side effect. The funny thing is, that paramilitary attitude would be much more appropriate in a large city than a small town. Not saying it is effective, but at least your "brothers" need you looking out for them. I love the sound of the program you are talking about in Toronto. I would bet that every year there are close to millions of arrests, citations, and confrontations that would never have happened if the officer involved had simply talked to the civillians like human beings who deserve respect AND compassion.
Toronto Police have recently been damaged with alot of bad cases where they have shot people with mental health issues. its a damm shame, . I had a client who was killed by a cop about 1 year ago. when you talk to cops, they don't get alot of training around mental health. i once called the crisis mobile team as i had a client who had a gun to his head in front of me and they were amazing with this client. they were able to calm him down and got him directly into a mental health program which sadly are hard to get into. after talking to these cops, they also realize that people with mental health issues and addictions issue don't belong in jails but in hospitals and detoxs.
i believe that police forces need to do alot of work in their communities to fix the preconception that people like unsung have.
here is a funny story, i remember my first day on my job and I had to go to the biggest men shelter in i believe Canada at 7:30 am. on one side of the street, there were people smoking crack in broad daylight and on the other side you had like 4 cop cars. both sides didn't do anything. I talked to my client and he said the police leave them alone. I talked to a cop afterward and he told me that he was there to make sure that nothing got out of control as you get alot of violent people at the shelter when people get their welfare and they are there to make sure that people don't get hurt.
this builds trust and cops have to get better at doing that.
It's not a preconception when one has lived it. I'm not an outsider.
haha yes brothers tell it like it is or they arent worth anything. The para-military aspect has always been a thorn in my side. When men get together and form "brotherhoods" trouble ensues. Look at the way soldiers behave on the battlefield, whatever army they serve, when you put a weapon in their hands they turn into monsters. We have to do a better job in training them, teach them to be more like social workers and less like soldiers!! Also, weed out those with the "jarhead" attitude because it has no place patrolling the streets.
we have this thing in Toronto which is call the crisis mobile team. its usually 2 cops and a social worker and 1 mental health nurse. basically their jobs is to assist people in mental health crisis in getting to a hospital. the police get training around mental health and addictions and non violent interventions. i have been calling on the city to actually make that training mandatory for all police. all the cops i know love it.
concerning the jarhead mentality, i could not agree with you more. I wonder if that attitude happens more in small towns or in large cities. i have grown up in a large city all my life but i have friends in the usa who comes from small towns and they tell me stories about like highschool football players being gods in their cities.
yes i am small town in ohio. Picture corn feilds and oil wells lol i can say that the "jarhead mentality" i am talking about is probably more prevalent in small towns. Like you said and unsung also, the big shots languish after highschool glory and many turn to police work. Small communities have a wonderful investment in the youth and this "highschool celebrity" that ensues is an ugly side effect. The funny thing is, that paramilitary attitude would be much more appropriate in a large city than a small town. Not saying it is effective, but at least your "brothers" need you looking out for them. I love the sound of the program you are talking about in Toronto. I would bet that every year there are close to millions of arrests, citations, and confrontations that would never have happened if the officer involved had simply talked to the civillians like human beings who deserve respect AND compassion.
Toronto Police have recently been damaged with alot of bad cases where they have shot people with mental health issues. its a damm shame, . I had a client who was killed by a cop about 1 year ago. when you talk to cops, they don't get alot of training around mental health. i once called the crisis mobile team as i had a client who had a gun to his head in front of me and they were amazing with this client. they were able to calm him down and got him directly into a mental health program which sadly are hard to get into. after talking to these cops, they also realize that people with mental health issues and addictions issue don't belong in jails but in hospitals and detoxs.
i believe that police forces need to do alot of work in their communities to fix the preconception that people like unsung have.
here is a funny story, i remember my first day on my job and I had to go to the biggest men shelter in i believe Canada at 7:30 am. on one side of the street, there were people smoking crack in broad daylight and on the other side you had like 4 cop cars. both sides didn't do anything. I talked to my client and he said the police leave them alone. I talked to a cop afterward and he told me that he was there to make sure that nothing got out of control as you get alot of violent people at the shelter when people get their welfare and they are there to make sure that people don't get hurt.
this builds trust and cops have to get better at doing that.
It's not a preconception when one has lived it. I'm not an outsider.
sorry I am sorry about that. the preconception that i believe you have is when you say things like they all have this holier than thou view of themselves or when you say that they were loser in high school who never went to parties or they were jocks in school who bullied people. this is a preconception.
its like when people say that people who have guns have some balls. its not true.
also, btw unsung, i don;t blame you for having these idea. I understand them. alot of my client hate social worker cause they have had bad experiences with social workers. thats easy to understand
Yes, not all of them are bad people. But I will go to my grave knowing the things that I do and I will say that some of the slimiest people I have ever met are cops.
Growing up I never had this opinion. Experiencing this in my adult life, from a first hand perspective, I can honestly say my views on the police have drastically changed. I have never been around a more corrupt, arrogant, and disloyal group of people in any single profession in my life.
Yes, not all of them are bad people. But I will go to my grave knowing the things that I do and I will say that some of the slimiest people I have ever met are cops.
Growing up I never had this opinion. Experiencing this in my adult life, from a first hand perspective, I can honestly say my views on the police have drastically changed. I have never been around a more corrupt, arrogant, and disloyal group of people in any single profession in my life.
you should met some addictions worker where i come from. Just joking.
the real question that we have to answer is how do we change this? how do we change the police?
I really do believe that many are good and other are crap. how do we get the crap ones out? do we need to get the unions out? do we need higher qualifications to become a police officer? is it just a sign of the times that more people are just bigger assholes?
haha yes brothers tell it like it is or they arent worth anything. The para-military aspect has always been a thorn in my side. When men get together and form "brotherhoods" trouble ensues. Look at the way soldiers behave on the battlefield, whatever army they serve, when you put a weapon in their hands they turn into monsters. We have to do a better job in training them, teach them to be more like social workers and less like soldiers!! Also, weed out those with the "jarhead" attitude because it has no place patrolling the streets.
we have this thing in Toronto which is call the crisis mobile team. its usually 2 cops and a social worker and 1 mental health nurse. basically their jobs is to assist people in mental health crisis in getting to a hospital. the police get training around mental health and addictions and non violent interventions. i have been calling on the city to actually make that training mandatory for all police. all the cops i know love it.
concerning the jarhead mentality, i could not agree with you more. I wonder if that attitude happens more in small towns or in large cities. i have grown up in a large city all my life but i have friends in the usa who comes from small towns and they tell me stories about like highschool football players being gods in their cities.
yes i am small town in ohio. Picture corn feilds and oil wells lol i can say that the "jarhead mentality" i am talking about is probably more prevalent in small towns. Like you said and unsung also, the big shots languish after highschool glory and many turn to police work. Small communities have a wonderful investment in the youth and this "highschool celebrity" that ensues is an ugly side effect. The funny thing is, that paramilitary attitude would be much more appropriate in a large city than a small town. Not saying it is effective, but at least your "brothers" need you looking out for them. I love the sound of the program you are talking about in Toronto. I would bet that every year there are close to millions of arrests, citations, and confrontations that would never have happened if the officer involved had simply talked to the civillians like human beings who deserve respect AND compassion.
Toronto Police have recently been damaged with alot of bad cases where they have shot people with mental health issues. its a damm shame, . I had a client who was killed by a cop about 1 year ago. when you talk to cops, they don't get alot of training around mental health. i once called the crisis mobile team as i had a client who had a gun to his head in front of me and they were amazing with this client. they were able to calm him down and got him directly into a mental health program which sadly are hard to get into. after talking to these cops, they also realize that people with mental health issues and addictions issue don't belong in jails but in hospitals and detoxs.
i believe that police forces need to do alot of work in their communities to fix the preconception that people like unsung have.
here is a funny story, i remember my first day on my job and I had to go to the biggest men shelter in i believe Canada at 7:30 am. on one side of the street, there were people smoking crack in broad daylight and on the other side you had like 4 cop cars. both sides didn't do anything. I talked to my client and he said the police leave them alone. I talked to a cop afterward and he told me that he was there to make sure that nothing got out of control as you get alot of violent people at the shelter when people get their welfare and they are there to make sure that people don't get hurt.
this builds trust and cops have to get better at doing that.
Great post.
I don't know the additional training the police in my area have, but without fail, each time I've seen them interact with those who have mental issues, they've acted with compassion and gentleness.
I have to admit, though, there have been an awful lot of instances lately within LA and surrounding areas of officers going overboard, jumping the gun, etc.
The other day, I heard an officer who called into a radio show say that within the force, "different rankings get different spankings", which is kind of fucked up.
haha yes brothers tell it like it is or they arent worth anything. The para-military aspect has always been a thorn in my side. When men get together and form "brotherhoods" trouble ensues. Look at the way soldiers behave on the battlefield, whatever army they serve, when you put a weapon in their hands they turn into monsters. We have to do a better job in training them, teach them to be more like social workers and less like soldiers!! Also, weed out those with the "jarhead" attitude because it has no place patrolling the streets.
we have this thing in Toronto which is call the crisis mobile team. its usually 2 cops and a social worker and 1 mental health nurse. basically their jobs is to assist people in mental health crisis in getting to a hospital. the police get training around mental health and addictions and non violent interventions. i have been calling on the city to actually make that training mandatory for all police. all the cops i know love it.
concerning the jarhead mentality, i could not agree with you more. I wonder if that attitude happens more in small towns or in large cities. i have grown up in a large city all my life but i have friends in the usa who comes from small towns and they tell me stories about like highschool football players being gods in their cities.
yes i am small town in ohio. Picture corn feilds and oil wells lol i can say that the "jarhead mentality" i am talking about is probably more prevalent in small towns. Like you said and unsung also, the big shots languish after highschool glory and many turn to police work. Small communities have a wonderful investment in the youth and this "highschool celebrity" that ensues is an ugly side effect. The funny thing is, that paramilitary attitude would be much more appropriate in a large city than a small town. Not saying it is effective, but at least your "brothers" need you looking out for them. I love the sound of the program you are talking about in Toronto. I would bet that every year there are close to millions of arrests, citations, and confrontations that would never have happened if the officer involved had simply talked to the civillians like human beings who deserve respect AND compassion.
Toronto Police have recently been damaged with alot of bad cases where they have shot people with mental health issues. its a damm shame, . I had a client who was killed by a cop about 1 year ago. when you talk to cops, they don't get alot of training around mental health. i once called the crisis mobile team as i had a client who had a gun to his head in front of me and they were amazing with this client. they were able to calm him down and got him directly into a mental health program which sadly are hard to get into. after talking to these cops, they also realize that people with mental health issues and addictions issue don't belong in jails but in hospitals and detoxs.
i believe that police forces need to do alot of work in their communities to fix the preconception that people like unsung have.
here is a funny story, i remember my first day on my job and I had to go to the biggest men shelter in i believe Canada at 7:30 am. on one side of the street, there were people smoking crack in broad daylight and on the other side you had like 4 cop cars. both sides didn't do anything. I talked to my client and he said the police leave them alone. I talked to a cop afterward and he told me that he was there to make sure that nothing got out of control as you get alot of violent people at the shelter when people get their welfare and they are there to make sure that people don't get hurt.
this builds trust and cops have to get better at doing that.
Great post.
I don't know the additional training the police in my area have, but without fail, each time I've seen them interact with those who have mental issues, they've acted with compassion and gentleness.
I have to admit, though, there have been an awful lot of instances lately within LA and surrounding areas of officers going overboard, jumping the gun, etc.
The other day, I heard an officer who called into a radio show say that within the force, "different rankings get different spankings", which is kind of fucked up.
I believe that every cop around the world should received training in non violent crisis management along with training around addictions and mental health. I believe that cops should also be forced to atleast yearly mental health evaluation of themselves done by a professorial outside of the police force.
I agree that the last line is fucked up and has to be fixed. I would love top see a review board of cops actions again separate from the police force themselves.
Yes, not all of them are bad people. But I will go to my grave knowing the things that I do and I will say that some of the slimiest people I have ever met are cops.
Growing up I never had this opinion. Experiencing this in my adult life, from a first hand perspective, I can honestly say my views on the police have drastically changed. I have never been around a more corrupt, arrogant, and disloyal group of people in any single profession in my life.
you should met some addictions worker where i come from. Just joking.
the real question that we have to answer is how do we change this? how do we change the police?
I really do believe that many are good and other are crap. how do we get the crap ones out? do we need to get the unions out? do we need higher qualifications to become a police officer? is it just a sign of the times that more people are just bigger assholes?
I do not know. Times have changed. I do believe part of the problem lies with how the general police force has become militarized. It is way overdone. Why does some Sheriff Dept that polices corn fields need an MRAP from Iraq? Our President says that weapons of war don't belong on America's streets, but it is ok for the police to have them? Are we at war?
I'm sure someone has done a study that shows you are multiple times more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist. So I believe that the police have developed an attitude, an extreme ego over this gear that has come from the military. Our troops faced off with people that actually put them in harms way, the local police have NOBODY to fear. NOBODY. They are rarely held accountable for their actions, now they are empowered more by this equipment. They have no fear because there is little repercussion. Slap some lady around because she lipped off? No problem. Choke some guy to death because he wouldn't put up with their shit? No problem. Shoot a bunch of dogs for little reason? No problem. Until they are held accountable from their own ranks it won't stop, but damned if they will cross that thin blue line to do so. Can't have a rat in the mix, can we?
My stepfather became a cop back in the early 80's iirc. People did it back them because it was a decent job and they actually wanted to help people.
Now it's a different mentality, and I know because I dated a female officer. Most of them have these holier than thou attitudes where they really believe that they are special. Instead of doing good for the community they sign on because of the thrill, plus many are out of the military so it's a natural fit.
Someone else hit it on the nose, a lot are the jocks that bullied people, or the people that never got invited to parties so it's a head trip for them.
Geezuz this is ridiculous.
You are making broad based assumptions based on your personal biases.
Come on, man. Seriously. Insert any other profession in your above post and it reads the same- like nonsense. I mean... you had an ex that was a cop so you know what cops are like.
Every cop... I mean every cop I have ever come across (there have been many) has been professional. Some have been unreal. So, from personal experience, I could say, "All cops are awesome!" However, I know this cannot be true given that cops are human beings with human characteristics: they are prone to errors in judgement and will make errors- it's quite a natural thing. There have been numerous incidents that legitimize this notion.
Stop with the general crucifixion of police forces and stick to single cases. Just as we don't brand every teacher a pedophile when one is identified, or every mechanic as dishonest, or each lawyer as a shark, or (fill in the blank with a disturbing stereotype)... we shouldn't label every cop as a goof on a power trip.
The theme of this thread is disturbing on so many levels.
My stepfather became a cop back in the early 80's iirc. People did it back them because it was a decent job and they actually wanted to help people.
Now it's a different mentality, and I know because I dated a female officer. Most of them have these holier than thou attitudes where they really believe that they are special. Instead of doing good for the community they sign on because of the thrill, plus many are out of the military so it's a natural fit.
Someone else hit it on the nose, a lot are the jocks that bullied people, or the people that never got invited to parties so it's a head trip for them.
Geezuz this is ridiculous.
You are making broad based assumptions based on your personal biases.
Come on, man. Seriously. Insert any other profession in your above post and it reads the same- like nonsense. I mean... you had an ex that was a cop so you know what cops are like.
Yeah, you are right. I can see why you want to make that comparison. I mean let's say I go into McDonalds where some punk kid is on the grill. The worst he can really do is add some type of disgusting bodily fluid to my burger or maybe add one of their spicy cockroaches, right?
Totally comparable to the worst thing that a bad cop can do. You win. I give up.
My stepfather became a cop back in the early 80's iirc. People did it back them because it was a decent job and they actually wanted to help people.
Now it's a different mentality, and I know because I dated a female officer. Most of them have these holier than thou attitudes where they really believe that they are special. Instead of doing good for the community they sign on because of the thrill, plus many are out of the military so it's a natural fit.
Someone else hit it on the nose, a lot are the jocks that bullied people, or the people that never got invited to parties so it's a head trip for them.
Geezuz this is ridiculous.
You are making broad based assumptions based on your personal biases.
Come on, man. Seriously. Insert any other profession in your above post and it reads the same- like nonsense. I mean... you had an ex that was a cop so you know what cops are like.
Yeah, you are right. I can see why you want to make that comparison. I mean let's say I go into McDonalds where some punk kid is on the grill. The worst he can really do is add some type of disgusting bodily fluid to my burger or maybe add one of their spicy cockroaches, right?
Totally comparable to the worst thing that a bad cop can do. You win. I give up.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
some of the DOT guys dealing strictly with trucks , I can see this being acceptable . Loose fitting to allow better movement crawling under truck and trailer. Trooper/State Police, city cop or Sheriff Deputy? I prefer like our HP, in uniform, crisp, well groomed very professional in appearance and manner.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Fla. trooper who stopped cop sues after harassment
MIAMI — Florida Highway Patrol Trooper Donna Jane Watts was on routine patrol early one morning when a Miami police car whizzed past at speeds that would eventually top 120 mph. Even with her blue lights flashing and siren blaring, it took Watts more than seven minutes to pull the speeder over.
Not certain who was behind the wheel, she approached the car warily, with gun drawn, according to video from her cruiser's dashboard camera. "Put your hands out of the window! Right now!" she yelled. It turned out the driver was Miami Police Department officer Fausto Lopez, in full uniform. Watts holstered her gun but still handcuffed him and took his weapon.
"I apologize," Lopez said, explaining that he was late for an off-duty job.
"You were running 120 miles an hour!" Watts barked back.
That October 2011 confrontation made national headlines and eventually got Lopez fired. But Watts' actions involving a fellow officer didn't sit well with many in law enforcement, and not long after she made that traffic stop, she says, the harassment began. Random telephone calls on her cell phone. Some were threats and some were prank calls, including orders for pizza. Unfamiliar vehicles and police cars sat idling in her cul-de-sac. She was afraid to open her mailbox.
Watts suspected her private driver's license information was being accessed by fellow officers, so she made a public records request with the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles. It turned out she was right: over a three-month period, at least 88 law enforcement officers from 25 different agencies accessed Watts' driver's license information more than 200 times, according to her lawyer.
Law enforcement officers have long been known to band together and protect each other, but Watts said in her lawsuit that these actions went too far.
Watts is suing those police agencies and the individual officers under the federal Driver Privacy Protection Act, a 1994 law that provides for a penalty of $2,500 for each violation if the information was improperly accessed. Watts' attorney, Mirta Desir, said it's clear most of the officers had no legitimate reason to look up her data. If all the searches were found illegal, Watts could receive more than $500,000.
"Ultimately what it comes down to is a violation of privacy," Desir said. "It wasn't for any legitimate purpose on the part of the police officers and it was done by people in a position of trust."
According to court documents, most of the individual officers named in Watts' lawsuit did face some disciplinary action, usually a written reprimand. But lawyers for the agencies have asked a federal judge to dismiss the lawsuit, claiming that under the U.S. Constitution, Congress cannot hold police officers liable for merely accessing the information, but only if they try to sell it. And some claim they did have a legitimate reason.
For example, a lawyer for fellow state Trooper Andrew Cobb said in court papers that he accessed Watts' information after "hearing rumors that other troopers were threatening" her and that his actions were done "out of concern for a fellow trooper" and as "a matter of public safety." Under Highway Patrol policy, employees typically are not permitted to comment on legal matters.
The challenge by some Florida police agencies to the driver's license law has drawn the attention of the U.S. Justice Department, which is defending its constitutionality. In its own court November filing, the Justice Department insists that numerous courts have held that Congress can regulate such activity even if the items involved aren't being sold.
"There is value in drivers' information and a market for it," the Justice Department lawyers said. "What the defendants fail to recognize is that there is value in drivers' information whether or not it is actually sold."
The legal clash over Watts' lawsuit comes as some police agencies are seeking changes in the driver's license law itself. Bill Johnson, executive director of the National Association of Police Agencies, said law enforcement officials are concerned that lawyers are using the law to target individual officers who access the information. He noted that the $2,500 penalty per violation can add up quickly.
"In our view, it was not what the federal law was enacted to counteract," Johnson said. "I think it would be unfair and outside the scope of the legislation to think individuals would get whacked like that."
NAPO is lobbying Congress to remove the automatic $2,500 penalty and change the law so that a violation could only occur if there was "specific intent to secure an economic benefit," according to the organization's documents.
Desir, the attorney representing Watts, said anyone can ask the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles for a report — known as D.A.V.I.D., for Driving and Vehicle Information Database — on who has accessed their driver's license information and how many times. But it isn't easy.
"You don't even know you've been looked up unless you make a concerted effort to find out," she said.
A judge is expected to rule on the law enforcement agency and officers' motions to dismiss in the coming weeks, which will determine whether the lawsuit continues. Desir said Watts, who had been assigned to road patrol in Broward County, has relocated and is no longer driving a cruiser, although she still works for the Highway Patrol. Through Desir, Watts declined to be interviewed.
What profession do you make your living with? I asked you before and I can't remember if you answered me or not.
I ask because I'm curious to know what job is completely devoid of corruption, abuse, and incompetence that allows for someone doing it to be so critical of other professions.
I mean... obviously your job is the standard for exemplary behaviour and sets the bar for all other jobs. What is it?
Comments
i believe that police forces need to do alot of work in their communities to fix the preconception that people like unsung have.
here is a funny story, i remember my first day on my job and I had to go to the biggest men shelter in i believe Canada at 7:30 am. on one side of the street, there were people smoking crack in broad daylight and on the other side you had like 4 cop cars. both sides didn't do anything. I talked to my client and he said the police leave them alone. I talked to a cop afterward and he told me that he was there to make sure that nothing got out of control as you get alot of violent people at the shelter when people get their welfare and they are there to make sure that people don't get hurt.
this builds trust and cops have to get better at doing that.
I completely understand your point but you are missing the reason why this is so.
Tickets and arrests equal revenue.
its like when people say that people who have guns have some balls. its not true.
Growing up I never had this opinion. Experiencing this in my adult life, from a first hand perspective, I can honestly say my views on the police have drastically changed. I have never been around a more corrupt, arrogant, and disloyal group of people in any single profession in my life.
Is that really a shot at gun owners in this thread?
the real question that we have to answer is how do we change this? how do we change the police?
I really do believe that many are good and other are crap. how do we get the crap ones out? do we need to get the unions out? do we need higher qualifications to become a police officer? is it just a sign of the times that more people are just bigger assholes?
I don't know the additional training the police in my area have, but without fail, each time I've seen them interact with those who have mental issues, they've acted with compassion and gentleness.
I have to admit, though, there have been an awful lot of instances lately within LA and surrounding areas of officers going overboard, jumping the gun, etc.
The other day, I heard an officer who called into a radio show say that within the force, "different rankings get different spankings", which is kind of fucked up.
I agree that the last line is fucked up and has to be fixed. I would love top see a review board of cops actions again separate from the police force themselves.
I do not know. Times have changed. I do believe part of the problem lies with how the general police force has become militarized. It is way overdone. Why does some Sheriff Dept that polices corn fields need an MRAP from Iraq? Our President says that weapons of war don't belong on America's streets, but it is ok for the police to have them? Are we at war?
I'm sure someone has done a study that shows you are multiple times more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist. So I believe that the police have developed an attitude, an extreme ego over this gear that has come from the military. Our troops faced off with people that actually put them in harms way, the local police have NOBODY to fear. NOBODY. They are rarely held accountable for their actions, now they are empowered more by this equipment. They have no fear because there is little repercussion. Slap some lady around because she lipped off? No problem. Choke some guy to death because he wouldn't put up with their shit? No problem. Shoot a bunch of dogs for little reason? No problem. Until they are held accountable from their own ranks it won't stop, but damned if they will cross that thin blue line to do so. Can't have a rat in the mix, can we?
You are making broad based assumptions based on your personal biases.
Come on, man. Seriously. Insert any other profession in your above post and it reads the same- like nonsense. I mean... you had an ex that was a cop so you know what cops are like.
Every cop... I mean every cop I have ever come across (there have been many) has been professional. Some have been unreal. So, from personal experience, I could say, "All cops are awesome!" However, I know this cannot be true given that cops are human beings with human characteristics: they are prone to errors in judgement and will make errors- it's quite a natural thing. There have been numerous incidents that legitimize this notion.
Stop with the general crucifixion of police forces and stick to single cases. Just as we don't brand every teacher a pedophile when one is identified, or every mechanic as dishonest, or each lawyer as a shark, or (fill in the blank with a disturbing stereotype)... we shouldn't label every cop as a goof on a power trip.
The theme of this thread is disturbing on so many levels.
of course it would be great if instead of just listing stories we actually talk about how to fix some of the issues that police forces have.
just seems more productive.
i like coming up with solutions
Yeah, you are right. I can see why you want to make that comparison. I mean let's say I go into McDonalds where some punk kid is on the grill. The worst he can really do is add some type of disgusting bodily fluid to my burger or maybe add one of their spicy cockroaches, right?
Totally comparable to the worst thing that a bad cop can do. You win. I give up.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2014/07/10/la-plata-county-sheriffs-office-gets-new-armored-vehicle/
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Fla. trooper who stopped cop sues after harassment
MIAMI — Florida Highway Patrol Trooper Donna Jane Watts was on routine patrol early one morning when a Miami police car whizzed past at speeds that would eventually top 120 mph. Even with her blue lights flashing and siren blaring, it took Watts more than seven minutes to pull the speeder over.
Not certain who was behind the wheel, she approached the car warily, with gun drawn, according to video from her cruiser's dashboard camera. "Put your hands out of the window! Right now!" she yelled. It turned out the driver was Miami Police Department officer Fausto Lopez, in full uniform. Watts holstered her gun but still handcuffed him and took his weapon.
"I apologize," Lopez said, explaining that he was late for an off-duty job.
"You were running 120 miles an hour!" Watts barked back.
That October 2011 confrontation made national headlines and eventually got Lopez fired. But Watts' actions involving a fellow officer didn't sit well with many in law enforcement, and not long after she made that traffic stop, she says, the harassment began. Random telephone calls on her cell phone. Some were threats and some were prank calls, including orders for pizza. Unfamiliar vehicles and police cars sat idling in her cul-de-sac. She was afraid to open her mailbox.
Watts suspected her private driver's license information was being accessed by fellow officers, so she made a public records request with the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles. It turned out she was right: over a three-month period, at least 88 law enforcement officers from 25 different agencies accessed Watts' driver's license information more than 200 times, according to her lawyer.
Law enforcement officers have long been known to band together and protect each other, but Watts said in her lawsuit that these actions went too far.
Watts is suing those police agencies and the individual officers under the federal Driver Privacy Protection Act, a 1994 law that provides for a penalty of $2,500 for each violation if the information was improperly accessed. Watts' attorney, Mirta Desir, said it's clear most of the officers had no legitimate reason to look up her data. If all the searches were found illegal, Watts could receive more than $500,000.
"Ultimately what it comes down to is a violation of privacy," Desir said. "It wasn't for any legitimate purpose on the part of the police officers and it was done by people in a position of trust."
According to court documents, most of the individual officers named in Watts' lawsuit did face some disciplinary action, usually a written reprimand. But lawyers for the agencies have asked a federal judge to dismiss the lawsuit, claiming that under the U.S. Constitution, Congress cannot hold police officers liable for merely accessing the information, but only if they try to sell it. And some claim they did have a legitimate reason.
For example, a lawyer for fellow state Trooper Andrew Cobb said in court papers that he accessed Watts' information after "hearing rumors that other troopers were threatening" her and that his actions were done "out of concern for a fellow trooper" and as "a matter of public safety." Under Highway Patrol policy, employees typically are not permitted to comment on legal matters.
The challenge by some Florida police agencies to the driver's license law has drawn the attention of the U.S. Justice Department, which is defending its constitutionality. In its own court November filing, the Justice Department insists that numerous courts have held that Congress can regulate such activity even if the items involved aren't being sold.
"There is value in drivers' information and a market for it," the Justice Department lawyers said. "What the defendants fail to recognize is that there is value in drivers' information whether or not it is actually sold."
The legal clash over Watts' lawsuit comes as some police agencies are seeking changes in the driver's license law itself. Bill Johnson, executive director of the National Association of Police Agencies, said law enforcement officials are concerned that lawyers are using the law to target individual officers who access the information. He noted that the $2,500 penalty per violation can add up quickly.
"In our view, it was not what the federal law was enacted to counteract," Johnson said. "I think it would be unfair and outside the scope of the legislation to think individuals would get whacked like that."
NAPO is lobbying Congress to remove the automatic $2,500 penalty and change the law so that a violation could only occur if there was "specific intent to secure an economic benefit," according to the organization's documents.
Desir, the attorney representing Watts, said anyone can ask the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles for a report — known as D.A.V.I.D., for Driving and Vehicle Information Database — on who has accessed their driver's license information and how many times. But it isn't easy.
"You don't even know you've been looked up unless you make a concerted effort to find out," she said.
A judge is expected to rule on the law enforcement agency and officers' motions to dismiss in the coming weeks, which will determine whether the lawsuit continues. Desir said Watts, who had been assigned to road patrol in Broward County, has relocated and is no longer driving a cruiser, although she still works for the Highway Patrol. Through Desir, Watts declined to be interviewed.
"She's doing OK," Desir said.
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/07/14/cop-clash-caught-on-camera/
What profession do you make your living with? I asked you before and I can't remember if you answered me or not.
I ask because I'm curious to know what job is completely devoid of corruption, abuse, and incompetence that allows for someone doing it to be so critical of other professions.
I mean... obviously your job is the standard for exemplary behaviour and sets the bar for all other jobs. What is it?
Exactly. My career is irrelevant. The consequences of what a bad cop can do are far more life altering than what the fry guy can do.