America's Gun Violence

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  • fifefife Posts: 3,046
    unsung said:

    fife said:

    quick question: Should people convicted of a crime be allowed to buy a gun?

    I was thinking about that when i read about guns being used for protection.

    If they served their time, yes.

    another quick question, is there anyone out there that should not be able to buy a gun?
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,693
    That rule actually makes a lot of sence. Why would firing a warning shot garner punishment when shooting someone does not in self defense?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864
    fife said:

    unsung said:

    fife said:

    quick question: Should people convicted of a crime be allowed to buy a gun?

    I was thinking about that when i read about guns being used for protection.

    If they served their time, yes.

    another quick question, is there anyone out there that should not be able to buy a gun?
    Yep.

  • fifefife Posts: 3,046
    unsung said:

    fife said:

    unsung said:

    fife said:

    quick question: Should people convicted of a crime be allowed to buy a gun?

    I was thinking about that when i read about guns being used for protection.

    If they served their time, yes.

    another quick question, is there anyone out there that should not be able to buy a gun?
    Yep.

    can you tell me who those people are and why you say that?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864
    To me, if the individual ever used a firearm in the act of another crime and the mentally insane.
  • gun crime in the US won't change without a monumental cultural shift.
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  • ban weapons and legalize drugs ? :))

    Godfather.

    Yes.

    What's so funny? People who smoke dope don't typically go shoot people. You wanna get high and shoot some people?

    It's people who sell dope that typically kill people. Take the lucrative illegal market from them and their motivation to kill rival dealers or kill people while ripping them off is gone.

    People are going to smoke dope. It makes perfect sense to change the manufacturing, processing and distribution methodology to an industry model which sees profits fall into the hands of working people and society as opposed to the criminal element that regulates itself with violence.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • I agree that marijuana should be legalized, but then those dealers would just end up moving up the chain to cocaine or heroin, and just as much or more blood would be spilled. and you can't legalize hard drugs. in my opinion, anyway.
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  • fifefife Posts: 3,046

    I agree that marijuana should be legalized, but then those dealers would just end up moving up the chain to cocaine or heroin, and just as much or more blood would be spilled. and you can't legalize hard drugs. in my opinion, anyway.

    countries like Portugal has decriminalize all drugs and it has worked. would you be OK with decriminalizing drugs?
  • fife said:



    I agree that marijuana should be legalized, but then those dealers would just end up moving up the chain to cocaine or heroin, and just as much or more blood would be spilled. and you can't legalize hard drugs. in my opinion, anyway.

    countries like Portugal has decriminalize all drugs and it has worked. would you be OK with decriminalizing drugs?
    interesting. I have no idea what the ramifications would be to decriminalizing hard drugs. But I don't think it would be a good thing. Why would we want to allow/encourage the use of drugs that kill you and cause all kinds of social harm? I know that people say "druggies aren't criminals", but giving someone a ticket/fine for doing that wouldn't be any deterrent. Decriminalizing something like that might be sending the wrong message, don't you think? Right now our kids are taught to be shit scared of drugs like that. If they aren't illegal, then why not try it?

    I'd be interested to learn more about why Portugal did that. What was their drug culture like to begin with? out of control where they had no choice but to take the criminal element out of the equation as their jails were full of people in withdrawal? or not enough hard drug use to be concerned about doing so?
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • fifefife Posts: 3,046

    fife said:



    I agree that marijuana should be legalized, but then those dealers would just end up moving up the chain to cocaine or heroin, and just as much or more blood would be spilled. and you can't legalize hard drugs. in my opinion, anyway.

    countries like Portugal has decriminalize all drugs and it has worked. would you be OK with decriminalizing drugs?
    interesting. I have no idea what the ramifications would be to decriminalizing hard drugs. But I don't think it would be a good thing. Why would we want to allow/encourage the use of drugs that kill you and cause all kinds of social harm? I know that people say "druggies aren't criminals", but giving someone a ticket/fine for doing that wouldn't be any deterrent. Decriminalizing something like that might be sending the wrong message, don't you think? Right now our kids are taught to be shit scared of drugs like that. If they aren't illegal, then why not try it?

    I'd be interested to learn more about why Portugal did that. What was their drug culture like to begin with? out of control where they had no choice but to take the criminal element out of the equation as their jails were full of people in withdrawal? or not enough hard drug use to be concerned about doing so?
    here is an interesting article about Portugal. http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
    to answer your questions which are very good. I do believe that there is a difference between allowing and encouraging. we allow people to smoke cigarettes but we don't encourage it. I don't know if scaring kids is the right way to make sure that they don't try any substances. if you consider the amount of money that the west spends on policing and prison for substance users, we could use that money for education.

    Portugal did have a lot of injecting drug users and from what I understand that was one of the reason for this plan which btw is now been around since 2001.
  • fifefife Posts: 3,046
    sorry also, if you look at how addiction services are now there tends to be a growing belief in harm reduction. that is why cities like Vancouver in Canada have such places like Insite which allows people to use in a safe place. I am a firm believer that addictions is more of a health issue and therefore should be treated like a health issue.
  • You know, a light kind of went on when you said "public health issue". Excellent point.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • It is the same as prostitution to me. The fact that the supreme court of canada struck down that law as unconstitutional, only for the harper government to use that to further vilify the profession was a step in the wrong direction. Legalize it and regulate it. Simple as pie. Everybody wins.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • fifefife Posts: 3,046
    unsung said:

    To me, if the individual ever used a firearm in the act of another crime and the mentally insane.

    Thanks for answering that question. sorry another quick question. so would you agree that government does infact have a right to limit what some people believe is a right?
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    agreeed, if weed was controled like liquor or cigeretts that would be fine in my opinion but as you said those dealers slinging weed would just move up the ladder to the harder drugs.

    Godfather.
    it dosen't matter to me what a man dose for a living you understand..
    as long as his interest's don't conflict with mine.
  • fifefife Posts: 3,046

    agreeed, if weed was controled like liquor or cigeretts that would be fine in my opinion but as you said those dealers slinging weed would just move up the ladder to the harder drugs.

    Godfather.

    I still kind of question this. lets be honest, you can make a shit load more money dealing crack, heroin than pot so I don't know if there would be a rush for people to become crack dealers.

    maybe its my own sterotype but i see pot dealers as guys who deal pot but not really drug dealers (if that makes any sense)

  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 13,425
    fife said:

    agreeed, if weed was controled like liquor or cigeretts that would be fine in my opinion but as you said those dealers slinging weed would just move up the ladder to the harder drugs.

    Godfather.

    I still kind of question this. lets be honest, you can make a shit load more money dealing crack, heroin than pot so I don't know if there would be a rush for people to become crack dealers.

    maybe its my own sterotype but i see pot dealers as guys who deal pot but not really drug dealers (if that makes any sense)

    think the distinction is in whether or not one feels pot is a drug to begin with.
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  • I know what fife is saying. Most pot dealers (the ones I've known) aren't dudes with guns killing others for territory. they're guys who like to sit in their apartment all day watching tv and smoking weed, so they sell it so they can maintain that lifestyle. I think there's enough made domestically (Canada/US) that there doesn't need to be high level cartel guys for weed. Maybe there is, I don't know. But that isn't where I'd imagine the big money is. Although, your customers never die of it! they are lifelong clientele!
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 6,527
    Former BernieBro, turned Hillary rotten Clinton #1 Fanboy

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  • ah, Billie Jo. of course. Responsible gun owners only go by one name, dontcha know?
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  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Have a gun story every day in Houston. Kids shooting themselves. Taking guns to school. Yesterday guy shot himself while driving. Humans not very smart. Oh well. Let's open carry. Woohoo.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • agreeed, if weed was controled like liquor or cigeretts that would be fine in my opinion but as you said those dealers slinging weed would just move up the ladder to the harder drugs.

    Godfather.

    I never used to be down with what I am about to propose, but we might have to look at the legalization of more than just pot.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • fifefife Posts: 3,046

    agreeed, if weed was controled like liquor or cigeretts that would be fine in my opinion but as you said those dealers slinging weed would just move up the ladder to the harder drugs.

    Godfather.

    I never used to be down with what I am about to propose, but we might have to look at the legalization of more than just pot.
    can you tell me why you were not down with it before. I am very interested in why people think that way?
  • fife said:

    agreeed, if weed was controled like liquor or cigeretts that would be fine in my opinion but as you said those dealers slinging weed would just move up the ladder to the harder drugs.

    Godfather.

    I never used to be down with what I am about to propose, but we might have to look at the legalization of more than just pot.
    can you tell me why you were not down with it before. I am very interested in why people think that way?
    If we choose to make drugs illegal... it would be to keep people safe from the harmful mental and physical health problems associated with drug usage. But our reality is that the people who are interested in doing drugs... do them. Outside of a day here or a day there where users cannot 'find' them, the usage is supported through illegal means.

    So... after much thought... given people are going to take drugs regardless of concern for personal health, society would do well (and better) to assume control for the manufacturing, processing and distribution of them- generating immense profit as well as exercising control over the drugs' quality (ensuring baseline safety measures).

    That's my two cents.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • fifefife Posts: 3,046

    fife said:

    agreeed, if weed was controled like liquor or cigeretts that would be fine in my opinion but as you said those dealers slinging weed would just move up the ladder to the harder drugs.

    Godfather.

    I never used to be down with what I am about to propose, but we might have to look at the legalization of more than just pot.
    can you tell me why you were not down with it before. I am very interested in why people think that way?
    If we choose to make drugs illegal... it would be to keep people safe from the harmful mental and physical health problems associated with drug usage. But our reality is that the people who are interested in doing drugs... do them. Outside of a day here or a day there where users cannot 'find' them, the usage is supported through illegal means.

    So... after much thought... given people are going to take drugs regardless of concern for personal health, society would do well (and better) to assume control for the manufacturing, processing and distribution of them- generating immense profit as well as exercising control over the drugs' quality (ensuring baseline safety measures).

    That's my two cents.
    Thanks for answering. I have been a big proponent of decriminalization of all substances. it has always seemed very selection of what is a legal drug and what is a illegal drug. for example, why is alcohol legal and say pot is illegal. when if you think about it, pot does have more medical reason for use as compared to alcohol.

    Inhalants are some of the worse drugs but they are easily found in anyones house.


  • fifefife Posts: 3,046
    sorry one last point, I personally believe that the reason we in the west will never decriminalize drugs is because in reality the war on drugs has works. its worked to make people believe that they are better than so called drug user when in reality we are all drug users in some shape or form. some are just more acceptable drugs users.
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 18,365
    fife said:


    Thanks for answering. I have been a big proponent of decriminalization of all substances. it has always seemed very selection of what is a legal drug and what is a illegal drug. for example, why is alcohol legal and say pot is illegal. when if you think about it, pot does have more medical reason for use as compared to alcohol.

    Inhalants are some of the worse drugs but they are easily found in anyones house.


    I saw an episode of Intervention about a young woman who couldn't stay away from inhalants. Fucking sad.

    When there's a will, you know? Look at bath salts, or that other new designer drug someone posted about recently. Sure your brain may fry, you may even try to eat a fellow human being - but hey, why not?

    You can even talk about meds prescribed with virtually no forethought by doctors - vicoden, percocet, oxycontin, etc. Shit, look at the possible side effects (always rattled off quickly) from drugs that are advertised all over the place for arthritis, COPD, chronic pain...

    Anti-depressants may cause suicidal thoughts?

    Sure, makes sense!

    I don't have the answers, but what's happening these days doesn't seem to be working very well.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 9,497
    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    Jason P, what did you ever do to run afoul of President Obama? Breathe?
    Peace.


    See that's the funny part, it's not just him, it's ALL of them.

    Seriously before saying that the pending legislation isn't out there, do some research.
    Boo!

    All of who?

    Seriously, please enumerate which Constitutional rights you've lost and what "pending" legislation you're so ever so fearful of. You do own a gun, correct?

    Peace.

    I really don't want to go and re-hash all of the same stuff again. It's been discussed before, I'm sure you know how to google.

    However I will give the Cliff Notes, search on Connecticut and in my home state of Illinois there was legislation last year that would turn a law-abiding person into a felon by charging the person with a felony for EACH magazine owned that was larger than 10 rounds.

    Any rational person can see how that is simply ridiculous.
    Any rational person can see how not limiting magazine capacity is simply ridiculous.

    Peace.
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 9,497
    unsung said:

    The higher control there is on a primary market would create a black market at higher levels.

    Who here believes that Chicago gang bangers buy their guns at gun stores or gun shows?

    Is it only gang bangers that don't buy their guns at gun stores or gun shows? I assume you'd be for greater enforcement of inventory control and sales records, particularly of multiple purchases of firearms, otherwise known as straw purchases, by the ATF, from manufacturer to licensed gun dealer?

    Peace is bad for business.

    Peace.
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