Israeli Apartheid

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  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    foodboy said:

    it's quite obvious you are a jew hater. please go away or back under your rock.


    :((

    Seriously, this kind of gibberish still cracks me up.

    I also opposed the Apartheid regime in South Africa during the 1980's. Does that make me a 'white hater'?

    :-?
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 17,229
    That stupid senseless shit of a post you responded to was worth your resurrecting the thread?

    If you're tossing back a few - never know! - next round's on me.

    And if not, next round's on me.

    Cheers.
  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,316
    edited August 2014
    I brought this thread back, I was viewing a Mandela clip from 1990, thought I'd post it on the train, but I'm never exactly sure where to place certain videos.

    But felt like this thread was alright to do it in, (probably wrong!)

    I did it also with the Kony thread, I had a video about Africom and figured that it belonged in that thread cause I remember mentioning Africom in it.

    The fault is mine.
    Post edited by Idris on
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited August 2014
    hedonist said:

    That stupid senseless shit of a post you responded to was worth your resurrecting the thread?

    Nope. Idris resurrected it.

    Post edited by Byrnzie on
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 15,647
    is there a statute of limitations on threads??

    if there is, why is it not in the posting guidelines???

    seems to me that bumping an old thread means that someone did not have the last word in a thread that people stopped posting in. as if silence in a thread gives it consensus on a position or something.

    that is a dangerous precedent to set. that is like saying that "hey the scientific community has decided that hiv is incurable, therefore we will stop trying to research and see if there are any other steps we can take to treat the infected and try to prevent the infection of others....oh well, there has been no research published in 6 months, so i guess there is scientific consensus....."
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

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  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 6,949
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    JC29856 said:
    Yep, Israel is preventing HRW and Amnesty from examining evidence of the multiple war crimes it has committed. It's hoping it can get away with them. But when the ICC begins investigating Israels' long record of atrocities then no doubt they'll take this into account.
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 17,229
    Idris said:

    I brought this thread back, I was viewing a Mandela clip from 1990, thought I'd post it on the train, but I'm never exactly sure where to place certain videos.

    But felt like this thread was alright to do it in, (probably wrong!)

    I did it also with the Kony thread, I had a video about Africom and figured that it belonged in that thread cause I remember mentioning Africom in it.

    The fault is mine.

    Apologies - for some reason (maybe it's just me) but since the site changed, when I bring up a thread with new posts, it sometimes puts me one or two past the latest ones. I couldn't figure out why it was worth bringing it back for that comment - not the topic itself.

    gimme, of course there's no statute (though I have seen Kat admonish some for doing that).

    It's really not that big of a deal, was just curious.
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 6,635
    foodboy said:

    why don't you worry about human rights in china, russia, malaysia, n. korea and many other places and give this a rest. it's quite obvious you are a jew hater. please go away or back under your rock.

    How dare you accuse someone of being a "Jew hater" for posting an article? From one Jew to another, if you have nothing with merit to say: please shut up.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,316

  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Idris said:


    "Resignation statement" lol, god forbid someone crtisizes Israel. Wtf, really? Doesn't that go against what the US stands for?
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Idris said:


    Sometimes it's impossible to prevent the truth from being uttered, even by politicians. When the only justifications and excuses you have are distractions, obfuscations, Orwellian propaganda, and outright lies, then it's only natural that sometimes cracks will appear in your not-so-stable facade of bullshit.
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    image

    Block The Boat Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/events/541809929252987/542139642553349/

    The Zim Alabama is scheduled to dock at the port of Tampa on Wednesday August 27th. Time to be announced. All interested in organizing a blockade are invited to a meet up Sunday 8/23, 1:00pm at Zeida's Café located 1239 E Kennedy Blvd, Tampa, FL 33602
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 6,949
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 6,949
    JC29856 said:

    Most American douche bags won't even read the article or can't understand it.
    No wonder
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    JC29856 said:
    Dude, the "whores" part got me laughing my ass off =)) it's fucken funny, idk why, but it's got me laughing.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 10,466
    There is a Jewish Temple around the corner from me that has a giant "We Stand With Israel" banner affixed to its sign. It has made several appearances over the years but it is not a permanent fixture. Rather, it appears when hostilities in Gaza or the West Bank flare up and then goes away when things calm down, put into storage for the next time...which is never too far away. It isn't supporting Israel's existence. It is supporting Israel's many military operations.

    I've never given much thought to it, honestly, but it struck me yesterday how a "We Stand With Gaza" banner affixed to a mosque would be received and portrayed in the press. How quickly that mosque would be associated with supporting terrorism. Yet a sign showing such support for Israel, amidst the slaughter of two thousand Palestinians, sits there unnoticed. I don't think I have been alone in not thinking too deeply on it.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 13,258
    wondered where ot post this... sooo here it is.

    http://www.salon.com/2014/08/25/pink_floyds_roger_waters_why_moral_perversity_of_u_s_position_in_gaza_is_stunning/?source=newsletter

    Monday, Aug 25, 2014 02:13 PM EST
    Pink Floyd’s Roger Waters: Why moral perversity of U.S. position in Gaza is stunning
    I think it's safe to say that if U.S. neighborhoods were living under siege, folks like Rand Paul wouldn't take it
    Roger Waters

    Topics: Palestine, Israel, Gaza, Rand Paul, America, Foreign policy, Middle East, pink floyd, Media Criticism, Politics News
    Pink Floyd's Roger Waters: Why moral perversity of U.S. position in Gaza is stunningRoger Waters (Credit: Reuters/Chip East)

    The carnage in Gaza continues after the latest collapse of cease-fire talks and over four weeks of asymmetrical bombardment by Israel. With the death of more than 2,000 Palestinians, and the displacement of hundreds of thousands more, the complicity of the American government has been exposed to the world as never before. Yet the mantra repeated ad nauseam by the U.S. government and media alike remains the same: Israel has a right to defend itself.

    The moral perversity of the U.S. position is stunning. How can the U.S. government ask Israel to be more careful about civilian lives while simultaneously arming and then rearming the IDF so it can more effectively inflict such devastation on an imprisoned and occupied people?

    The U.S. could act to stop the senseless slaughter but it won’t. Instead, it’s cheerleading. Members of Congress are mindlessly parroting Israeli talking points without a thought given to the Palestinian perspective or to preserving human life. Brimming with righteousness, they argue for turning Israel loose – Sen. Rand Paul in particular – and invoke Israel’s right to self-defense, despite the fact that, as the occupying power, Israel has an obligation to protect the Palestinians it rules, not massacre them.

    Do congressional leaders ever stop to wonder what they would do if they were born Palestinian, had their homes and private property stolen from them, and were forced to live without freedom under an illegal Israeli occupation for 47 years? Do they know what it means to be on the receiving end of Israel’s barbaric “mow the lawn” euphemism? Scarcely a word is said about the rights of Palestinians who are being pummeled from the sky and shot dead in their neighborhoods by the region’s most powerful military. What, I wonder, would Americans do if it were their neighborhoods being invaded and if they were the ones living under siege? I think it’s safe to say Americans wouldn’t stand for it.

    Despite these realities, it’s far more advantageous in Washington to come down like a ton of bricks on the Palestinians and maintain that they are the cause of their own suffering. No politician’s career has ever been hurt by blaming Palestinians or by applauding Israel’s illegal occupation, colonization and war crimes.

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 13,258
    finish to the article...

    Pressure on American politicians to conform to the party line is abetted by skewed media coverage. For instance, CNN, while purporting to be a news channel, relentlessly churns out Israeli propaganda.

    It is easy for those of us who do not live under the tyranny of the occupation to condemn the military wing of Hamas for using randomly fired rockets that might cause civilian casualties in neighboring Israel, and I do unreservedly condemn it. Having said that, an occupied population has the legal right to resist the military of the occupier. The occupier has a legal obligation to protect the occupied. Under these circumstances the reporting on CNN is biased beyond all belief.

    Numerically, one can readily see the bias. Far more pro-Israel guests than pro-Palestinian experts are invited on air to make their case.

    An exception to that general rule, and obviously not on CNN, is Henry Siegman, a prominent Jewish voice and a former national director of the American Jewish Congress, who recently got the opportunity to expose the shortcomings of Israeli talking points. Siegman was interviewed fairly and in depth by Amy Goodman on Democracy Now! Sadly Democracy Now! is not mainstream media. If only it were!

    Contrast that appearance with the reception Yousef Munayyer received during an extraordinarily “unfair” Fox News interview by the execrable Sean Hannity. Actually, to dignify Hannity’s rude and infantile shouting and finger pointing as an “interview” would be wrong.

    If only CNN – or Fox, for that matter – would sometimes rely for their analyses on someone as intelligent and humane as Siegman. Unfortunately, however, CNN persisted for weeks with the extremely biased analysis of Israel’s former ambassador to the U.S. Michael Oren. Even CNN appears to have recognized how biased a contributor Oren was as it recently changed his title from CNN analyst to former ambassador.

    Staunchly pro-Israel voices like Oren’s have resoundingly proclaimed: Any resistance, violent or nonviolent, in fact any criticism of Israeli colonization and denial of Palestinian rights, is off limits. What they are advocating, in essence, is perpetual armed conflict until greater Israel is a fait accompli, and complete Israeli domination over any surviving Palestinians is accepted as a reasonable status quo. Commentators such as Oren feign interest in a two-state peaceful solution but they and the state they represent resist all attempts to implement such a plan.

    On a positive note, I take heart from the fact that support for Jewish Voice for Peace has skyrocketed over the last month as members of the American Jewish community, appalled at Israel’s actions, have looked for a place to register their concern. JVP advocates for an end to occupation and the siege on Gaza, for Palestinian rights – as dictated by international law – and peace with justice for Palestinians and Israelis alike. It primarily does so by educating people with basic facts and by using the tools of Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions to apply pressure on Israel to cease its human rights abuses.

    Additionally, we welcome Javier Bardem and Penelope Cruz to the swelling ranks of celebrity dissenters. Their courageous stand is a beacon to us all. We need many more like them if we are to shift the discourse and persuade the American and Israeli governments to adopt more realistic, humane and hopefully fruitful policies. To paraphrase Siegman, “If you want to stop the rockets, end the siege of Gaza and the occupation of both Gaza and the West Bank.” He sounds like a sage but this is just common sense. If I might stick in my two pennies’ worth, why not then engage in serious conversations with the Unity Palestinian Government, which up to now Israel has seemed determined to destroy.

    The U.S. Congress, far too beholden to the right-wing Israel lobby, will be the last to figure out this tragic jigsaw puzzle and human catastrophe and grasp the critical need for a political solution. And mainstream media, if unchallenged, will continue to distort reality and embolden the counterproductive, AIPAC-driven unrealistic position that it portrays as fact.

    On a personal note, I am pro-human rights for all peoples all over the world. I am pro-peace for all Israelis and Palestinians. I am not singling out Israel. I deplore all abuses and violence, whether in Syria, China, Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, England, the USA, Egypt, Libya, wherever. That said, international law was designed to protect against such human rights violations and should be applied fairly to all.

    In the case of Israel/Palestine, legal channels have yet to be seriously pursued. Consequently, change will continue to be led by popular efforts. Specifically, the growing nonviolent BDS campaign offers the best chance of successfully pressuring Israel to alter its ways and allow for Palestinian freedom and rights. Despite major efforts to destroy it, more and more people are joining the BDS movement. It is this growing momentum that gives me hope that, together, the people of the world will eventually help deliver what governments have been unwilling to secure: justice and a lasting peace between Palestinians and Israelis.

    I wrote a short poem a few days ago that I have been encouraged to append here.

    It is called “Crystal Clear Brooks.” Although it expresses my feelings, I cannot but think that the children in Gaza would give anything but their birthright and their pride and their basic human rights for a glass of crystal clear water. And, I think too, of the Bakr children, the sons of fishermen, who were slain while playing on a Gaza beach.



    Crystal clear brooks

    When the time comes

    And the last day dawns

    And the air of the piper warms

    The high crags of the old country

    When the holy writ blows

    Like burned paper away

    And wise men concede

    That there’s more than one way

    More than one path

    More than one book

    More than one fisherman

    More than one hook

    When the cats have been skinned

    And the fish have been hooked

    When the masters of war

    Are our masters no more

    When old friends take their whiskey

    Outside on the porch

    We will have done well

    If we’re able to say

    As the sun settles down

    On that final day

    That we never gave in

    That we did all we could

    So the kids could go fishing

    In crystal clear brooks.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    JimmyV said:

    There is a Jewish Temple around the corner from me that has a giant "We Stand With Israel" banner affixed to its sign. It has made several appearances over the years but it is not a permanent fixture. Rather, it appears when hostilities in Gaza or the West Bank flare up and then goes away when things calm down, put into storage for the next time...which is never too far away. It isn't supporting Israel's existence. It is supporting Israel's many military operations.

    I've never given much thought to it, honestly, but it struck me yesterday how a "We Stand With Gaza" banner affixed to a mosque would be received and portrayed in the press. How quickly that mosque would be associated with supporting terrorism. Yet a sign showing such support for Israel, amidst the slaughter of two thousand Palestinians, sits there unnoticed. I don't think I have been alone in not thinking too deeply on it.

    Somebody put up a Palestinian flag on the Brooklyn bridge(?) couple days ago and hell broke loose.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 18,783
    Two Jews walk into a bar...

    oh fuck, wrong thread. Sorry! #-o
    "Anger is an energy."
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  • dignindignin Posts: 4,475
    JimmyV said:

    There is a Jewish Temple around the corner from me that has a giant "We Stand With Israel" banner affixed to its sign. It has made several appearances over the years but it is not a permanent fixture. Rather, it appears when hostilities in Gaza or the West Bank flare up and then goes away when things calm down, put into storage for the next time...which is never too far away. It isn't supporting Israel's existence. It is supporting Israel's many military operations.

    I've never given much thought to it, honestly, but it struck me yesterday how a "We Stand With Gaza" banner affixed to a mosque would be received and portrayed in the press. How quickly that mosque would be associated with supporting terrorism. Yet a sign showing such support for Israel, amidst the slaughter of two thousand Palestinians, sits there unnoticed. I don't think I have been alone in not thinking too deeply on it.

    Interesting thoughts, thanks for sharing.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    JC29856 said:

    badbrains said:

    JC29856 said:
    Dude, the "whores" part got me laughing my ass off =)) it's fucken funny, idk why, but it's got me laughing.
    congress

    Whore-debase oneself by doing something for unworthy motives, typically to make money.
    Well, can't argue with you there.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    JimmyV said:

    There is a Jewish Temple around the corner from me that has a giant "We Stand With Israel" banner affixed to its sign. It has made several appearances over the years but it is not a permanent fixture. Rather, it appears when hostilities in Gaza or the West Bank flare up and then goes away when things calm down, put into storage for the next time...which is never too far away. It isn't supporting Israel's existence. It is supporting Israel's many military operations.

    I've never given much thought to it, honestly, but it struck me yesterday how a "We Stand With Gaza" banner affixed to a mosque would be received and portrayed in the press. How quickly that mosque would be associated with supporting terrorism. Yet a sign showing such support for Israel, amidst the slaughter of two thousand Palestinians, sits there unnoticed. I don't think I have been alone in not thinking too deeply on it.

    You should spray paint an 'i' after Israel, followed by the word 'terrorism'.

    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    JC29856 said:
    Damn, that's a long one. Interesting stuff though.

    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Join the BDS campaign: http://www.bdsmovement.net/
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 6,635
    Byrnzie said:

    JimmyV said:

    There is a Jewish Temple around the corner from me that has a giant "We Stand With Israel" banner affixed to its sign. It has made several appearances over the years but it is not a permanent fixture. Rather, it appears when hostilities in Gaza or the West Bank flare up and then goes away when things calm down, put into storage for the next time...which is never too far away. It isn't supporting Israel's existence. It is supporting Israel's many military operations.

    I've never given much thought to it, honestly, but it struck me yesterday how a "We Stand With Gaza" banner affixed to a mosque would be received and portrayed in the press. How quickly that mosque would be associated with supporting terrorism. Yet a sign showing such support for Israel, amidst the slaughter of two thousand Palestinians, sits there unnoticed. I don't think I have been alone in not thinking too deeply on it.

    You should spray paint an 'i' after Israel, followed by the word 'terrorism'.

    Byrnzie,

    If you degrade the character of a person or group (i.e. calling them supporters of terrorism), they're unlikely to listen to what you have to say (understandable as it may be given the circumstances - and I've voiced my opinion of a right to oppose oppression and I think we're on the same page with it). Most of these people are just buying into a rhetoric and keeping in their blissful state of ignorance, as encouraged by much of the Jewish community, so to call them supporters of terrorism would be considered insulting and unprovoked from their perspectives. I question what positive change could possibly come of something like this, and I'd love to instead focus on ways we can try and explain to the people within the synagogue the context behind the justifiable resistance forces present in Gaza. I know that's not an easy battle, I know it feels like there's inherently inaction and ignorance, but I think we're on the cusp of major progress.

    Programs like Jewish Voice for Peace would never have existed ten years ago (even if Facebook was more widespread), and there are many more Jews who are no longer ready or willing to blindly accept the Israeli rhetoric disseminated on a regular basis. It has taken an absurd amount of years to get to this point, but now that so many eyes are on this situation - it's time for other Jews to speak up against it. For example, if I saw a sign like that in Toronto, I would add my name, mention that I'm a Jew who perceives there to be injustice in the treatment of those in Gaza and the West Bank and East Jerusalem (I don't think that's the extent of the injustice, but better to go with baby steps), and encourage anyone who read the sign to contact me on Facebook and allow me to explain why I believe the current state of affairs is unjust based on my knowledge.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
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