Should Pearl Jam Play in Israel?

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  • 0 recorded injuries and 0 recorded buildings destroyed under the Hamas' apparent rocket assault (the rocket assault was comically declared safer than the 4th of July fireworks displays throughout the USA).

    69 Palestinians killed (60 have been civilians).

    The question was asked: is this a war? Is it?

    Interesting takes:

    Israel doesn't know what to do when the Palestinians are ready to negotiate. So it does what it always does: it pounds them, it engages in assassinations, it engages in mass arrests.

    Everybody's ready for the conflict to end except the lunatics in Tel Aviv.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    It's amazing, EVERY TIME you heare these guys who talk for Israel, are on any show, it's the same rhetoric. It's like they're reading from a Teleprompter, wait, maybe they are. Hahaha
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 15,954
    it's like finkelstein said. they are reading from the script of the 2008/9 war.
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

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  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    I love the "we have to remember that Hamas is RAINING down rockets onto Israel, hundreds EVERY DAY!" "What country would allow that to happen to their citizens?" BUT, yet A-the minute someone mentions the 2 Palestinian teens shot and killed by the idf on nakba AND B- why can't the world look at it thru the Palestinians eyes and see the collective and destructive punishment being leveled at them. And again, how many dead Palestinians and how many dead Israelis? A humans life is just as equal as another's wether he's Muslim, Jewish, Christian, atheist, Buddhist whatever. All equal. Let's all try to start treating each other like equals. What's the worst that can happen???? Peace???
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 15,954
    unfortunately there is no money in peace.
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

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  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited July 2014
    http://imeu.org/article/847?utm_content=buffer20cca&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    FAQ on Failed Effort to Arrange Ceasefire Between Israel and Hamas

    Rashid KhalidiRashid Khalidi, Edward Said Professor of Arab Studies at Columbia University, former advisor to Palestinian negotiators, and author of Brokers of Deceit: How the U.S. Has Undermined Peace in the Middle East (2013) and The Iron Cage: The Story of the Palestinian Struggle for Statehood (2006).

    Mouin RabbaniMouin Rabbani, Senior Fellow with the Institute for Palestine Studies, Policy Advisor to Al-Shabaka: The Palestinian Policy Network, Contributing Editor with Middle East Report and Co-Editor of the ezine Jadaliyya. Former Senior Middle East Analyst with the International Crisis Group.

    Noura ErakatNoura Erakat, Human rights attorney, Assistant Professor at George Mason University, and member of the Legal Support Network for the Badil Resource Center for Palestinian Refugee and Residency Rights, and co-editor of the ezine Jadaliyya.


    Q - Why do you think Hamas didn't accept the terms of the ceasefire?

    RK - "Hamas has insisted that there be a lasting resolution of the basic problem of Israel's siege of Gaza, as was promised as part of the 2012 cease-fire, but never implemented in spite of Israel's recognition that Hamas scrupulously maintained the cease-fire until quite recently. The Egyptian proposal makes lifting of the siege conditional on Israel's approval, which means never."

    MR - "Hamas, and with it other Palestinian organizations such as Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, have indicated that they were not consulted on the Egyptian cease-fire proposal, and that it has not been formally presented to them but rather released to the media after its terms were agreed with Israel.

    "In terms of the proposal's contents, what these organizations and many Palestinians object to is that it simply restores a 2012 ceasefire agreement that Israel has systematically violated and does not provide any guarantees such violations would cease. These violations consist not only of periodic armed Israeli attacks on the Gaza Strip, but also Israel's refusal to respect clauses on the rights of fishermen in Gaza's territorial waters and farmers in land close to the Gaza/Israel boundary.

    "Hamas has additionally stated that it would not accept an agreement that does not provide for the immediate re-release of Palestinian prisoners who were released by Israel in 2011 as part of a prisoner exchange with Israel, but re-arrested by Israel in the last month.

    "More broadly, Hamas and other Palestinian organizations are averse to returning to an untenable status quo, which lasts only until Israel once again decides to launch a major assault on the Gaza Strip, and which does not include concrete steps towards lifting the ongoing and prolonged blockade of the Gaza Strip.

    "There is widespread Palestinian suspicion that Egypt, which has shown nothing but unremitting hostility towards Hamas since the current regime seized power in July 2013, released a proposal it ensured would be acceptable to Israel but rejected by the Palestinians, in order to help Israel legitimize an escalation of attacks against the Gaza Strip. It is likely to have done so in close cooperation with its new best friend, Tony Blair, and other advocates of Israeli power in the Arab world and internationally."

    NE - “Within two days of Israel’s aerial assault on the population of the Gaza Strip, Hamas announced five conditions for a ceasefire: 1) stop the airstrikes; 2) observe terms of 2012 ceasefire; 3) release the Palestinians released during the Shalit prisoner exchange who were recently re-arrested; 4) lift the siege; and 5) don’t interfere with Palestinian unity government. What little is known about the proposed ceasefire agreement is that it demands a cessation of violence with no conditions thus reverting to conditions that are even worse than the status quo ante.
    “This clearly weakens Hamas politically, exacerbates the humanitarian conditions under which Palestinians struggle, and emboldens Israel to strike again with zero accountability. That said, it is not in the Palestinians’ best interest for Hamas to continue launching rockets regardless of the circumstances, as it provides a justification for Israel to continue its brutal attacks on a defenseless and besieged population.”

    Q - What will be required for a ceasefire to be accepted by both sides?

    RK - "Either serious external pressure on the parties, especially Israel, or the exhaustion of both sides, which is not yet apparent."

    MR - "It's difficult at this point to imagine a proposal that both Israel and Hamas would accept. Hamas insists on an end to Israeli impunity in its dealings with the Gaza Strip and an end to the blockade and isolation of that territory, while for Israel these are core policies. This means that a solution that meets basic standards of international law and human decency would have to be imposed on Israel by the international community, or that either party is sufficiently exhausted by the current conflict that it lowers its expectations. Neither of these scenarios appears likely in the immediate future."

    NE - “Hamas has made its five demands clear and its observance of the November 2012 ceasefire demonstrates its good faith. In contrast, it is not clear what Israel’s endgame is. It seems willing to accept a ceasefire on condition of Hamas’s unconditional capitulation, but what will ensure that it does not indiscriminately attack the 1.8 million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip again? Israel has said it is bombarding Gaza in retribution for the death of three Israeli teens though it has failed to produce a single shred of evidence incriminating the Hamas leadership. Israel also claims it wants to decimate Hamas’s capability to launch rocket and mortar fire but this makes little logical sense since in the past diplomatic efforts have done much more to yield a cessation in rocket attacks than have military ones.”

    Continued....
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

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  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    ...

    Q - What do you think Israel's actual goals for bombing Gaza are?

    RK - "Israel's main goals are to weaken Hamas and to prevent an inter-Palestinian reconciliation, which would strengthen the Palestinians and make them more capable of resisting inexorable Israeli pressure."

    MR - "Israel has been on high alert since Hamas and Fatah signed a reconciliation agreement in late April, and particularly since a new PA government was formed with the endorsement of both Fatah and Hamas thereafter. Its primary goal is to ensure that the Palestinians remain divided and its current campaign should be seen above all as an attempt to sabotage the reconciliation agreement and initiatives to move it further forward."

    NE - “Prime Minister Benyamin Netanyahu is attacking Gaza in response to domestic and international political considerations that have nothing to do with any threat posed by Hamas. Right before the start of this latest assault on Gaza, Netanyahu suffered several blows politically: he failed to thwart the start of a US-Iran rapprochement; was unable to stop the establishment of a Palestinian unity government; and was widely blamed for the collapse of the peace talks renewed by US Secretary of State John Kerry last summer. His political standing a well as that of Israel’s had been seriously weakened and by launching an attack on the Gaza Strip, he appears strong to the Israeli public, shifts international attention away from Israel’s responsibility for the failure of negotiations, and puts enormous pressure on the recently formed Palestinian Authority national unity government, which Israel wishes to undermine.”

    Q - How do you think the United States and international community should respond to the current situation?


    RK - "The international community should stop placing an occupied people and their oppressor on the same level, and should stop equating small inaccurate rockets that have so far killed no Israelis and wounded 13 with the world's most advanced weaponry, that has so far killed 200 Palestinians, 80% of them civilians according to the UN, and wounded nearly 1200. This is not a war between equals: it is akin to shooting fish in a barrel."

    MR - "In an ideal world, the international community would act to arrest and reverse Israel's systematic impunity in its dealings with the Palestinian people and ensure Israeli accountability for its actions.

    "It would also need to address the underlying causes of the current crisis, at least the key shorter-term ones formed by the ongoing blockade of the Gaza Strip and seek to ensure steps towards normalcy in the Gaza Strip.

    "That is very unlikely to happen and for the time being I think we should expect continued complicity in Israeli actions."

    NE - “The current situation is a recurrence of Israel’s bloody attacks on Gaza in the winter of 2008-2009 as well as November 2012. Absent efforts to address the root causes of this conflict, it will be repeated yet again in the near future. The primary issue is that of Israel’s military and colonial rule over the Palestinian population of the occupied territories, including Gaza, which is characterized by a discriminatory apartheid legal regime and brutal repression. When the rockets stop flying and the aerial strikes cease, Palestinians will continue to die a slow and protracted death under the boot of Israel’s occupation. In particular, the population in the Gaza Strip faces a horrific future. By 2020, it is predicated that Gaza’s one source of clean water will be unusable and the World Health Organization says the 150-square mile Strip will be unlivable. Strong measures are required to hold Israel to account, aimed at ending the occupation and Israel’s apartheid regime through international legal institutions like the International Criminal Court, arms embargoes, and continued grassroots efforts by the Palestinian-led global Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement.”

    Q - How do you think Palestinian leaders should respond to the current situation?

    RK - "They should re-establish the unity of the Palestinian national movement on the basis of an agreed new strategy for confronting Israel's control over the entirety of Palestine, they should pronounce that the Oslo accords, which in 21 years have failed to bring about an end to Israeli occupation and colonization, are null and void, and they should insist on a truly honest broker as a mediator rather than the United States, which is totally biased in favor of the aggressor and occupier, Israel."

    MR - "At the very least one would have expected Mahmoud Abbas to urgently travel to the Gaza Strip and engage in efforts to lead the response to end this assault. Instead he has been sitting in Ramallah with his main concern that Hamas emerges weakened rather than strengthened from this crisis. It's an abject failure of leadership.

    "More broadly Palestinians need to undertake concrete steps to ensure national unity, first and foremost through overcoming the schism that has been with us since 2007 and agreement on a common strategy and national program."

    NE - "Palestinian leaders need to launch a full court political offensive against Israel’s violations of international law, systematic human rights abuses, and structural violence, employing all available legal, diplomatic and grassroots means. Multilateral institutions such the International Criminal Court should be engaged to hold Israel to account for war crimes such as the disproportionate use of force and settlement construction, and Palestinian leaders should fully embrace the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement."
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,938
    Radiohead just announced a show in Tel Aviv July 19th.

    Hopefully PJ will soon follow.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,699
    I'd prefer shows at The Gorge and Redrocks first.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 17,067
    Old thread but I still believe it will never happen !
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 15,954
    BS44325 said:

    Radiohead just announced a show in Tel Aviv July 19th.

    Hopefully PJ will soon follow.

    nope.

    won't happen.
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • what dreamswhat dreams Posts: 933
    I have a friend traveling to Israel 2 days after Trump meets with Netanyahu. I hope she makes it back alive
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 4,031

    I have a friend traveling to Israel 2 days after Trump meets with Netanyahu. I hope she makes it back alive

    Why wouldn't she?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 12,007
    BS44325 said:

    Radiohead just announced a show in Tel Aviv July 19th.

    Hopefully PJ will soon follow.

    they won't.
    1 day.......
  • 23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,GreecePosts: 9,457

    BS44325 said:

    Radiohead just announced a show in Tel Aviv July 19th.

    Hopefully PJ will soon follow.

    they won't.
    Nck Cave also did..but i agree with Hugh..
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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 17,067
    Nah this thread can be put to sleep it will never happen !
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,938

    Nah this thread can be put to sleep it will never happen !

    Never say never.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 17,067
    BS44325 said:

    Nah this thread can be put to sleep it will never happen !

    Never say never.
    I can totally say it without a doubt that this will never happen !
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,938
    According to Roger Waters Radiohead will not leave their Israeli fans high and dry...

    http://freebeacon.com/issues/new-york-times-hosts-anti-israel-roger-waters/

    PJ should go next.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 17,067
    BS44325 said:

    According to Roger Waters Radiohead will not leave their Israeli fans high and dry...

    http://freebeacon.com/issues/new-york-times-hosts-anti-israel-roger-waters/

    PJ should go next.

    I hope they do too would love for Ed to call out the injustices that happen in that country daily ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,938

    BS44325 said:

    According to Roger Waters Radiohead will not leave their Israeli fans high and dry...

    http://freebeacon.com/issues/new-york-times-hosts-anti-israel-roger-waters/

    PJ should go next.

    I hope they do too would love for Ed to call out the injustices that happen in that country daily ..
    As he would be completely free to do.
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 5,900
    What a shit article. Same old anti-Semite bull. They just won't let the pig thing go, no matter how many times it's discussed that the Star of David was one of many symbols shown on it.

    I think it says something about a nation when every concert played is considered a political win. Which, I suppose, makes a Brittany Spears concert important enough to delay an election.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 9,548
    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    According to Roger Waters Radiohead will not leave their Israeli fans high and dry...

    http://freebeacon.com/issues/new-york-times-hosts-anti-israel-roger-waters/

    PJ should go next.

    I hope they do too would love for Ed to call out the injustices that happen in that country daily ..
    As he would be completely free to do.
    You mean like Bibi going after the press after they criticized his wife free or some other kind of free, like non hisidic being welcome at the wall free?
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  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 5,900
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,938
    What a shit article. Same old anti-Semite bull. They just won't let the pig thing go, no matter how many times it's discussed that the Star of David was one of many symbols shown on it. I think it says something about a nation when every concert played is considered a political win. Which, I suppose, makes a Brittany Spears concert important enough to delay an election.
    I'm sorry but who's mission is it to turn every artist's refusal to play into a political statement? BDS did that. It is they who turned art into either a political victory or loss for one side or the other. Israel didn't make the Radiohead show into a "political win"...BDS did that all on it's own.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 9,548
    Pearl Jam won't play an apartheid regime state, professor.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

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  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,938
    Pearl Jam won't play an apartheid regime state, professor.
    Radiohead won't either.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 12,852
    unfortunately there is no money in peace.

  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 12,852
    As far as PJ playing Israel... I don't see that happening any time soon... especially considering Roger Waters stance and the BDS, I think PJ would not hesitate to continue to stand in solidarity
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,938
    my2hands said:
    As far as PJ playing Israel... I don't see that happening any time soon... especially considering Roger Waters stance and the BDS, I think PJ would not hesitate to continue to stand in solidarity
    I agree that it is unlikely they'll ever play Israel but I wouldn't exactly call it "solidarity". PJ has never actually wayed in on the issue...none of us have any idea where they stand on BDS. They are friends with Roger Waters but by no means have they endorsed the movement.
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