these guys were friends with howard zinn, and chomsky is on their suggested reading list. i think the absolutely are aware of what the israeli government is doing. anyone have the "manual for free living" that the band sent out like 9 years ago?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
But this shouldn't be about Israeli politics. There so many fans in that country that want to see the band ,young kids. Let it be about the music. The kids are alright, I love the band I love seeing them play , why would anyone want to take that experience away from someone else. I sure wouldn't want someone to take it away from me especially over something I have no control over.
You don't think Israeli citizens have any control over the shit that goes down in their country? That's funny, because according to this person:
Israel is a model of democracy, inclusion and pluralism
Nice. I appreciate being used as one of you're sources but I am not worthy of source material. However the text below is a valid source that all people should live by
I never said israel was innocent. If you read my earlier post I In fact even proposed that if Pearl Jam played there that they play for 50-50 palestinian/ israel kids ages 10-15. this is the only group that has the chance to make peace now. we will all most likely be dead before there is ever peace there.....
it takes two sides to fight and it also takes two sides to make peace.Arafat never wanted peace. Arafat thought he had leverage so he wanted peace on his terms and he complimented clinton as a great man and clinton said no I am a failure. I could not bring peace to israel and palestinian people...
Other than enjoying music this is what I live my life by. this will be the last I will post on this subject.
I oppose all killings of innocent people. Can you say they same thing?'..
From Book of Peter
Finally, all of you, be of one mind, sympathetic, loving toward one another, compassionate, humble.
9
Do not return evil for evil, or insult for insult; but, on the contrary, a blessing, because to this you were called, that you might inherit a blessing.d
10
For:
“Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep the tongue from evil
and the lips from speaking deceit,
11
must turn from evil and do good,
seek peace and follow after it.
12
For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears turned to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against evildoers.”
Christian Suffering.*
13
Now who is going to harm you if you are enthusiastic for what is good?
14
But even if you should suffer because of righteousness, blessed are you. Do not be afraid or terrified with fear of them,
15
but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope,
16
but do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who defame your good conduct in Christ may themselves be put to shame.
17
For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that be the will of God, than for doing evil.
18
For Christ also suffered* for sins once, the righteous for the sake of the unrighteous, that he might lead you to God. Put to death in the flesh, he was brought to life in the spirit.
19
In it he also went to preach to the spirits in prison,*
20
who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water.
21
This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God* for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22
who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.
Therefore, since Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same attitude (for whoever suffers in the flesh has broken with sin),
2
so as not to spend what remains of one’s life in the flesh on human desires, but on the will of God.
3
For the time that has passed is sufficient for doing what the Gentiles like to do: living in debauchery, evil desires, drunkenness, orgies, carousing, and wanton idolatry.
4
They are surprised that you do not plunge into the same swamp of profligacy, and they vilify you;
5
but they will give an account to him who stands ready to judge the living and the dead.
6
For this is why the gospel was preached even to the dead* that, though condemned in the flesh in human estimation, they might live in the spirit in the estimation of God.
Christian Charity.*
7
The end of all things is at hand. Therefore, be serious and sober for prayers.
8
c Above all, let your love for one another be intense, because love covers a multitude of sins.*
9
Be hospitable to one another without complaining.
10
As each one has received a gift, use it to serve one another as good stewards of God’s varied grace.
11
Whoever preaches, let it be with the words of God; whoever serves, let it be with the strength that God supplies, so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.*
Trial of Persecution.*
12
Beloved, do not be surprised that a trial by fire is occurring among you, as if something strange were happening to you.g
13
But rejoice to the extent that you share in the sufferings of Christ, so that when his glory is revealed you may also rejoice exultantly.h
14
If you are insulted for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you.i
15
But let no one among you be made to suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as an intriguer.
16
But whoever is made to suffer as a Christian should not be ashamed but glorify God because of the name.
17
For it is time for the judgment to begin with the household of God; if it begins with us, how will it end for those who fail to obey the gospel of God?j
18
“And if the righteous one is barely saved,
where will the godless and the sinner appear?”k
19
As a result, those who suffer in accord with God’s will hand their souls over to a faithful creator as they do good.
1
So I exhort the presbyters* among you, as a fellow presbyter and witness to the sufferings of Christ and one who has a share in the glory to be revealed.
2
Tend the flock of God in your midst, [overseeing] not by constraint but willingly, as God would have it, not for shameful profit but eagerly.
3
Do not lord it over those assigned to you, but be examples to the flock.
4
b And when the chief Shepherd is revealed, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.*
Advice to the Community.*
5
Likewise, you younger members,* be subject to the presbyters. And all of you, clothe yourselves with humility in your dealings with one another, for:
“God opposes the proud
but bestows favor on the humble.”c
6
So humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time.d
7
Cast all your worries upon him because he cares for you.e
8
Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for [someone] to devour.
9
Resist him, steadfast in faith, knowing that your fellow believers throughout the world undergo the same sufferings.
10
The God of all grace who called you to his eternal glory through Christ [Jesus] will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you after you have suffered a little.g
11
To him be dominion forever. Amen.
12
I write you this briefly through Silvanus,* whom I consider a faithful brother, exhorting you and testifying that this is the true grace of God. Remain firm in it.
13
The chosen one* at Babylon sends you greeting, as does Mark, my son.
14
Greet one another with a loving kiss. Peace to all of you who are in Christ.
it takes two sides to fight and it also takes two sides to make peace. Arafat never wanted peace. Arafat thought he had leverage so he wanted peace on his terms.
With all due respect, this is bullshit. Arafat wanted peace in accordance with the settlement agreed upon by the whole of the international community - excluding Israel and the U.S, who, in complete isolation, have been opposing any peace deal for the past 45 years.
At Camp David the Israeli's focused solely on what they wanted, and completely ignored what they were entitled to under international law. Big difference.
Chomsky: The Barak proposal in Camp David, the Barak-Clinton proposal, in the United States, I didn't check the Canadian media, in the United States you cannot find a map, which is the most important thing of course, check in Canada, see if you can find a map. You go to Israel, you can find a map, you go to scholarly sources, you can find a map. Here's what you find when you look at a map: You find that this generous, magnanimous proposal provided Israel with a salient east of Jerusalem, which was established primarily by the Labor government, in order to bisect the West Bank. That salient goes almost to Jericho, breaks the West Bank into two cantons, then there's a second salient to the North, going to the Israeli settlement of Ariel, which bisects the Northern part into two cantons.
So, we've got three cantons in the West Bank, virtually separated. All three of them are separated from a small area of East Jerusalem which is the center of Palestinian commercial and cultural life and of communications. So you have four cantons, all separated from the West, from Gaza, so that's five cantons, all surrounded by Israeli settlements, infrastructure, development and so on, which also incidentally guarantee Israel control of the water resources.
This does not rise to the level of South Africa 40 years ago when South Africa established the Bantustans. That's the generous, magnanimous offer. And there's a good reason why maps weren't shown. Because as soon as you look at a map, you see it.
Solomon: All right, but let me just say, Arafat didn't even bother putting a counter-proposal on the table.
Chomsky: Oh, that's not true.
Solomon: They negotiated that afterwards.
Chomsky: That's not true.
Solomon: I guess my question is, if they don't continue to negotiate -
Chomsky: They did. That's false.
Solomon: That's false?
Chomsky: Not only is it false, but not a single participant in the meetings says it. That's a media fabrication . . .
Solomon: That Arafat didn't put a counter-proposal . . .
Chomsky: Yeah, they had a proposal. They proposed the international consensus, which has been accepted by the entire world, the Arab states, the PLO. They proposed a settlement which is in accordance with an overwhelming international consensus, and is blocked by the United States.
Solomon: If you don't talk -
Chomsky: Yeah, they did talk. They talked. They proposed that.
Solomon: Once they walked out of Camp David,
Chomsky: They didn't walk out of Camp David . . .
Solomon: Both camps . . .
Chomsky: No, no, both sides walked out of Camp David.
what I posted is the truth. I knew that would be you're response. that is why there will never be peace....I will pray for you. this is my last post on this subject
what I posted is the truth. I knew that would be you're response. that is why there will never be peace....I will pray for you. this is my last post on this subject
The occupation isn't a two-way street, just as the Nazi occupation of Europe wasn't a two-way street. Under international law the settlements are illegal and in breach of the Fourth Geneva Convention on human rights. Arafat accepted a peace deal with the Israeli's in accordance with U.N 242 which is the standard blueprint for resolving the conflict, and which is accepted by the whole of the International community, and is rejected by Israel and the U.S - the U.S having used it's power of automatic veto at the U.N to block any peaceful settlement for the past 45 years. This is a fact, not an opinion.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-sieg ... ocess-scam '...The problem is not, as Israelis often claim, that Palestinians do not know how to compromise. (Another former prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, famously complained that ‘Palestinians take and take while Israel gives and gives.’) That is an indecent charge, since the Palestinians made much the most far-reaching compromise of all when the PLO formally accepted the legitimacy of Israel within the 1949 armistice border. With that concession, Palestinians ceded their claim to more than half the territory that the UN’s partition resolution had assigned to its Arab inhabitants. They have never received any credit for this wrenching concession, made years before Israel agreed that Palestinians had a right to statehood in any part of Palestine. The notion that further border adjustments should be made at the expense of the 22 per cent of the territory that remains to the Palestinians is deeply offensive to them, and understandably so.
Nonetheless, the Palestinians agreed at the Camp David summit to adjustments to the pre-1967 border that would allow large numbers of West Bank settlers – about 70 per cent – to remain within the Jewish state, provided they received comparable territory on Israel’s side of the border. Barak rejected this.'
besides legal democratic elections, how does any citizen have any control over what their government does?
Maybe you should ask the people of Romania, Egypt, Libya, Tripoli, and Turkey?
um, I was just asking what I thought was a legitimate question, asking you to elaborate on a previous comment.
never mind I guess.
People can put pressure on their governments by way of petitions, public statements, and demonstrations. And if enough people feel strongly enough about something they can change it. In the case of the countries I mentioned, the citizens of those countries rose up and overthrew the leaders who they deemed unfit to continue - obviously the situation in Turkey is still playing out.
So where does that all fit in with the situation in Israel? The Israeli people have had 45 years to effect a change in the ongoing ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, and yet the creeping annexation of Palestinian land and the construction on racist, Jewish-only settlements continues. So I hardly think their worthy of a collective pat on the back.
"People can put pressure on their governments by way of petitions, public statements, and demonstrations. And if enough people feel strongly enough about something they can change it. In the case of the countries I mentioned, the citizens of those countries rose up and overthrew the leaders who they deemed unfit to continue - obviously the situation in Turkey is still playing out.
So where does that all fit in with the situation in Israel? The Israeli people have had 45 years to effect a change in the ongoing ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, and yet the creeping annexation of Palestinian land and the construction on racist, Jewish-only settlements continues. So I hardly think their worthy of a collective pat on the back."- Byrnzie
Awesome! I'm psyched that the situations in Libya and Egypt are solved. We The People...
Now that they are the model for peace and stability, lets got back to pre-67 borders and assume all will be ok in the world.
The situation is not simple. It's not 45 years. It's not just about settlements. It certainly has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing.
For those who have never been to Israel (including Byrnzie), I encourage you to go there and see the situation with your own eyes. You will soon discover many of your own truths including the constant conflict between politics and religion with domestic and foreign policy (on both side of the border).
Much of this thread is completely focused on settlements. They are unquestionably a problem that must be dealt with. But so is a Palestinian government along with the security of all of Israel's borders and airspace.
Much of this thread is completely focused on settlements. They are unquestionably a problem that must be dealt with. But so is a Palestinian government along with the security of all of Israel's borders and airspace.
The Palestinian governments of both Hamas and Fatah have both agreed to the terms laid out in U.N 242 - terms accepted by the whole World, and which Israel and the U.S stand alone in opposing.
Why are you pretending that the Palestinians are the obstacle to peace? That's just an attempt to turn reality on it's head.
Much of this thread is completely focused on settlements. They are unquestionably a problem that must be dealt with. But so is a Palestinian government along with the security of all of Israel's borders and airspace.
The Palestinian governments of both Hamas and Fatah have both agreed to the terms laid out in U.N 242 - terms accepted by the whole World, and which Israel and the U.S stand alone in opposing.
Why are you pretending that the Palestinians are the obstacle to peace? That's just an attempt to turn reality on it's head.
Explain this to me. In your own words, Since 1967, the PLO, Fatah, and Hamas have never wavered once in their desire to begin an "implementation" 242. never?
And I don't believe I ever stated that the problem was solely on the Palestinian side. If you find it, I apologize... But I doubt those would be my words.
Explain this to me. In your own words, Since 1967, the PLO, Fatah, and Hamas have never wavered once in their desire to begin an "implementation" 242. never?
Not as far as I know. Either way, it's irrelevant. The onus on 242 is a withdrawal of Israeli forces from occupied territories. I don't think the Palestinians would have a lot to do with that.
What is up with this??
The blog entry below contains what seem to be fabricated quotes from Jeff and Eddie....can't find support for them anywhere, and I can't find any reference to a press conference discussing this.....
But the url thing has me confused....? Can any techies out there explain how this could happen, or be falsified somehow? You click the link, it takes you to this site (pearljam.com).....the url is in the address bar but the text on the page mentions nothing about what is stated in the url. Weird. I did see mention in an article/interview about/with Roger Waters, a mention that PJ had cancelled a gig in Israel - so I did some googling and this blog is all I came up with....
I really hope this isn't a slip-up/leak of sorts....and if it was, that the show was indeed cancelled.
(damn, the board is shortening the url so I broke it so that people can see what it says.) http://pearljam.com/news/0/1/21610/pearl jam_announces_one_show_in_israel_in_july_2014
April 02, 2013
Pearl Jam announces Israel gig but not to American fans
See this? It happens to me sometimes. I give a post a headline and then change it but the url still records the original headline. A similar thing has happened to Pearl Jam with the headline being,
Pearl Jam Announces Two Shows in July 2013
whereas the url is:
We are excited to announce two special Pearl Jam live performances to take place in London, Ontario and at Chicago’s Wrigley Field in July 2013. Both evenings will be An Evening with Pearl Jam; there will not be an opening band for either performance date.
The two show dates are:
Tues, July 16 - London, Ontario Budweiser Gardens
Fri, July 19 - Chicago, Illinois at Wrigley Field
*Fall Tour dates in the US will be announced in the coming months.
Public Sale tickets:
Chicago IL – Sat, Feb 9th 10am local time at http://www.tickets.comLondon, ON – Sat, Feb 9th 10am local time at http://www.budweisergardens.com/events, by phone at 1.866.455.2849, or in person at the Box Office or Ticket Outlets.
Nothing about Israel there so where did the url come from?
I know what to do. Let's google, "Pearl Jam announces one show in Israel in July 2014". Note, it's in quotes because I'm feeling lucky. Now what comes up?
That's it. It's an Israeli site, café.mouse.co.il and they are excited:
מתוך האתר:
Pearl Jam Announces One Show in Israel in July 2014
March 31 2013 24:00.01
We are excited to announce one special Pearl Jam live performance to take place in Tel-Aviv, Israel at the Joshua Park in July 2014. The show "Evening with Pearl Jam", so there will not be an opening band for the performance date. The show dates is:Wed, July 16 Tel-Aviv, Israel Joshua Park
*Fall Tour dates in the US will be announced in the coming months.
Public Sale tickets:Will be open three months before the show at the local boots and ticket offices in Israel.
Public announcement:
After years of anticipation from the audience in Israel, members of Pearl Jam announced at a press conference this evening on a one date performance Joshua Park in Tel Aviv, Israel.
The band denied rumors about not reaching so far for political reasons.
Performance will be in style of an Evening with Pearl Jam so there will be no warm-up band.The band will be accompanied by dozens of members of the stage, lighting and sound.
"It's going to be an unforgettable performance," said bassist Jeff Ament
"We did not believe such a small country in the Middle East, will have so much of a following," said lead singer and frontman Eddie Vedder
Date concert set for Wednesday 07/16/2014.
Now I'd never heard of Pearl Jam but they've got nearly 2,000,000 on their twitter account so maybe they don't know about BDS and the fact that Israel is an illegitimate colonial settler state based on ethnic cleansing and segregationist laws. http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.ca/s ... earl%20Jam
Sorry if this has been discussed already, I missed it if so.
What is up with this??
The blog entry below contains what seem to be fabricated quotes from Jeff and Eddie....can't find support for them anywhere, and I can't find any reference to a press conference discussing this.....
But the url thing has me confused....? Can any techies out there explain how this could happen, or be falsified somehow? You click the link, it takes you to this site (pearljam.com).....the url is in the address bar but the text on the page mentions nothing about what is stated in the url. Weird. I did see mention in an article/interview about/with Roger Waters, a mention that PJ had cancelled a gig in Israel - so I did some googling and this blog is all I came up with....
I really hope this isn't a slip-up/leak of sorts....and if it was, that the show was indeed cancelled.
(damn, the board is shortening the url so I broke it so that people can see what it says.) http://pearljam.com/news/0/1/21610/pearl jam_announces_one_show_in_israel_in_july_2014
April 02, 2013
Pearl Jam announces Israel gig but not to American fans
See this? It happens to me sometimes. I give a post a headline and then change it but the url still records the original headline. A similar thing has happened to Pearl Jam with the headline being,
Pearl Jam Announces Two Shows in July 2013
whereas the url is:
We are excited to announce two special Pearl Jam live performances to take place in London, Ontario and at Chicago’s Wrigley Field in July 2013. Both evenings will be An Evening with Pearl Jam; there will not be an opening band for either performance date.
The two show dates are:
Tues, July 16 - London, Ontario Budweiser Gardens
Fri, July 19 - Chicago, Illinois at Wrigley Field
*Fall Tour dates in the US will be announced in the coming months.
Public Sale tickets:
Chicago IL – Sat, Feb 9th 10am local time at http://www.tickets.comLondon, ON – Sat, Feb 9th 10am local time at http://www.budweisergardens.com/events, by phone at 1.866.455.2849, or in person at the Box Office or Ticket Outlets.
Nothing about Israel there so where did the url come from?
I know what to do. Let's google, "Pearl Jam announces one show in Israel in July 2014". Note, it's in quotes because I'm feeling lucky. Now what comes up?
That's it. It's an Israeli site, café.mouse.co.il and they are excited:
מתוך האתר:
Pearl Jam Announces One Show in Israel in July 2014
March 31 2013 24:00.01
We are excited to announce one special Pearl Jam live performance to take place in Tel-Aviv, Israel at the Joshua Park in July 2014. The show "Evening with Pearl Jam", so there will not be an opening band for the performance date. The show dates is:Wed, July 16 Tel-Aviv, Israel Joshua Park
*Fall Tour dates in the US will be announced in the coming months.
Public Sale tickets:Will be open three months before the show at the local boots and ticket offices in Israel.
Public announcement:
After years of anticipation from the audience in Israel, members of Pearl Jam announced at a press conference this evening on a one date performance Joshua Park in Tel Aviv, Israel.
The band denied rumors about not reaching so far for political reasons.
Performance will be in style of an Evening with Pearl Jam so there will be no warm-up band.The band will be accompanied by dozens of members of the stage, lighting and sound.
"It's going to be an unforgettable performance," said bassist Jeff Ament
"We did not believe such a small country in the Middle East, will have so much of a following," said lead singer and frontman Eddie Vedder
Date concert set for Wednesday 07/16/2014.
Now I'd never heard of Pearl Jam but they've got nearly 2,000,000 on their twitter account so maybe they don't know about BDS and the fact that Israel is an illegitimate colonial settler state based on ethnic cleansing and segregationist laws. http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.ca/s ... earl%20Jam
Sorry if this has been discussed already, I missed it if so.
:shock: noone talked about this in facebook??
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
netanyahu has the opportunity to make history. he has the opportunity to be a great statesman and negotiate a lasting, just, peace. he has the chance to go down in the history books as a great man who chose peace and freedom over war and oppression and occupation. this is the kind of thing that gives career politicians a hard on. let's see what he does.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Neil Young and Crazy Horse have canceled their scheduled July 17 concert in Tel Aviv due to the ongoing Israel-Hamas conflict, the band announced in a statement Sunday.
"It is with heavy hearts and deep sadness that we must cancel our one and only Israeli concert due to tensions which have rendered the event unsafe at this time,” a spokesperson for Young said in a press statement.
Israeli airstrikes within the Gaza Strip and return rocket fire from targeted Hamas have been ongoing since July 7. Tensions have escalated in the region since late June when three Israeli teenagers were kidnapped and later found dead in the West Bank; within days Israeli authorities had detained hundreds of Palestinians in its investigation into the murders. On July 2, a Palestinian boy was kidnapped and killed in an apparent retaliation.
Young had been scheduled to play July 17 in Hayarkon Park—his first show in Israel in more than a decade. More than 30,000 tickets had reportedly been sold for Thursday’s show, the lone Israeli stop on Young’s summer European tour. With more than people 175 killed and 1100 wounded, thus far in the conflict, security officials deemed such a large concert gathering too dangerous.
“We'll miss the opportunity to play for our fans and look forward to playing in Israel and Palestine in peace,” continued the statement.
Young said he plans to make donations to the Louise Tillie Alpert Youth Music Centre of Israel, and Heartbeat, “two organizations that teach music to Palestinian and Israeli youth simultaneously by enabling them to play music together."
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
This is a tough question...I'm sure Israel aren't the only Country Pearl Jam have played in if they were too that has Dropped Bombs on Innocent People...and Besides they will be Playing for the People who the Majority of them go about there Lives not intent on Killing People...But I think the Safety concerns would deter them.
Comments
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Nice. I appreciate being used as one of you're sources but I am not worthy of source material. However the text below is a valid source that all people should live by
I never said israel was innocent. If you read my earlier post I In fact even proposed that if Pearl Jam played there that they play for 50-50 palestinian/ israel kids ages 10-15. this is the only group that has the chance to make peace now. we will all most likely be dead before there is ever peace there.....
it takes two sides to fight and it also takes two sides to make peace.Arafat never wanted peace. Arafat thought he had leverage so he wanted peace on his terms and he complimented clinton as a great man and clinton said no I am a failure. I could not bring peace to israel and palestinian people...
Other than enjoying music this is what I live my life by. this will be the last I will post on this subject.
I oppose all killings of innocent people. Can you say they same thing?'..
From Book of Peter
Finally, all of you, be of one mind, sympathetic, loving toward one another, compassionate, humble.
9
Do not return evil for evil, or insult for insult; but, on the contrary, a blessing, because to this you were called, that you might inherit a blessing.d
10
For:
“Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep the tongue from evil
and the lips from speaking deceit,
11
must turn from evil and do good,
seek peace and follow after it.
12
For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears turned to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against evildoers.”
Christian Suffering.*
13
Now who is going to harm you if you are enthusiastic for what is good?
14
But even if you should suffer because of righteousness, blessed are you. Do not be afraid or terrified with fear of them,
15
but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope,
16
but do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who defame your good conduct in Christ may themselves be put to shame.
17
For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that be the will of God, than for doing evil.
18
For Christ also suffered* for sins once, the righteous for the sake of the unrighteous, that he might lead you to God. Put to death in the flesh, he was brought to life in the spirit.
19
In it he also went to preach to the spirits in prison,*
20
who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water.
21
This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God* for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22
who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.
Therefore, since Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same attitude (for whoever suffers in the flesh has broken with sin),
2
so as not to spend what remains of one’s life in the flesh on human desires, but on the will of God.
3
For the time that has passed is sufficient for doing what the Gentiles like to do: living in debauchery, evil desires, drunkenness, orgies, carousing, and wanton idolatry.
4
They are surprised that you do not plunge into the same swamp of profligacy, and they vilify you;
5
but they will give an account to him who stands ready to judge the living and the dead.
6
For this is why the gospel was preached even to the dead* that, though condemned in the flesh in human estimation, they might live in the spirit in the estimation of God.
Christian Charity.*
7
The end of all things is at hand. Therefore, be serious and sober for prayers.
8
c Above all, let your love for one another be intense, because love covers a multitude of sins.*
9
Be hospitable to one another without complaining.
10
As each one has received a gift, use it to serve one another as good stewards of God’s varied grace.
11
Whoever preaches, let it be with the words of God; whoever serves, let it be with the strength that God supplies, so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.*
Trial of Persecution.*
12
Beloved, do not be surprised that a trial by fire is occurring among you, as if something strange were happening to you.g
13
But rejoice to the extent that you share in the sufferings of Christ, so that when his glory is revealed you may also rejoice exultantly.h
14
If you are insulted for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you.i
15
But let no one among you be made to suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as an intriguer.
16
But whoever is made to suffer as a Christian should not be ashamed but glorify God because of the name.
17
For it is time for the judgment to begin with the household of God; if it begins with us, how will it end for those who fail to obey the gospel of God?j
18
“And if the righteous one is barely saved,
where will the godless and the sinner appear?”k
19
As a result, those who suffer in accord with God’s will hand their souls over to a faithful creator as they do good.
1
So I exhort the presbyters* among you, as a fellow presbyter and witness to the sufferings of Christ and one who has a share in the glory to be revealed.
2
Tend the flock of God in your midst, [overseeing] not by constraint but willingly, as God would have it, not for shameful profit but eagerly.
3
Do not lord it over those assigned to you, but be examples to the flock.
4
b And when the chief Shepherd is revealed, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.*
Advice to the Community.*
5
Likewise, you younger members,* be subject to the presbyters. And all of you, clothe yourselves with humility in your dealings with one another, for:
“God opposes the proud
but bestows favor on the humble.”c
6
So humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time.d
7
Cast all your worries upon him because he cares for you.e
8
Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for [someone] to devour.
9
Resist him, steadfast in faith, knowing that your fellow believers throughout the world undergo the same sufferings.
10
The God of all grace who called you to his eternal glory through Christ [Jesus] will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you after you have suffered a little.g
11
To him be dominion forever. Amen.
12
I write you this briefly through Silvanus,* whom I consider a faithful brother, exhorting you and testifying that this is the true grace of God. Remain firm in it.
13
The chosen one* at Babylon sends you greeting, as does Mark, my son.
14
Greet one another with a loving kiss. Peace to all of you who are in Christ.
With all due respect, this is bullshit. Arafat wanted peace in accordance with the settlement agreed upon by the whole of the international community - excluding Israel and the U.S, who, in complete isolation, have been opposing any peace deal for the past 45 years.
At Camp David the Israeli's focused solely on what they wanted, and completely ignored what they were entitled to under international law. Big difference.
Chomsky: The Barak proposal in Camp David, the Barak-Clinton proposal, in the United States, I didn't check the Canadian media, in the United States you cannot find a map, which is the most important thing of course, check in Canada, see if you can find a map. You go to Israel, you can find a map, you go to scholarly sources, you can find a map. Here's what you find when you look at a map: You find that this generous, magnanimous proposal provided Israel with a salient east of Jerusalem, which was established primarily by the Labor government, in order to bisect the West Bank. That salient goes almost to Jericho, breaks the West Bank into two cantons, then there's a second salient to the North, going to the Israeli settlement of Ariel, which bisects the Northern part into two cantons.
So, we've got three cantons in the West Bank, virtually separated. All three of them are separated from a small area of East Jerusalem which is the center of Palestinian commercial and cultural life and of communications. So you have four cantons, all separated from the West, from Gaza, so that's five cantons, all surrounded by Israeli settlements, infrastructure, development and so on, which also incidentally guarantee Israel control of the water resources.
This does not rise to the level of South Africa 40 years ago when South Africa established the Bantustans. That's the generous, magnanimous offer. And there's a good reason why maps weren't shown. Because as soon as you look at a map, you see it.
Solomon: All right, but let me just say, Arafat didn't even bother putting a counter-proposal on the table.
Chomsky: Oh, that's not true.
Solomon: They negotiated that afterwards.
Chomsky: That's not true.
Solomon: I guess my question is, if they don't continue to negotiate -
Chomsky: They did. That's false.
Solomon: That's false?
Chomsky: Not only is it false, but not a single participant in the meetings says it. That's a media fabrication . . .
Solomon: That Arafat didn't put a counter-proposal . . .
Chomsky: Yeah, they had a proposal. They proposed the international consensus, which has been accepted by the entire world, the Arab states, the PLO. They proposed a settlement which is in accordance with an overwhelming international consensus, and is blocked by the United States.
Solomon: If you don't talk -
Chomsky: Yeah, they did talk. They talked. They proposed that.
Solomon: Once they walked out of Camp David,
Chomsky: They didn't walk out of Camp David . . .
Solomon: Both camps . . .
Chomsky: No, no, both sides walked out of Camp David.
The occupation isn't a two-way street, just as the Nazi occupation of Europe wasn't a two-way street. Under international law the settlements are illegal and in breach of the Fourth Geneva Convention on human rights. Arafat accepted a peace deal with the Israeli's in accordance with U.N 242 which is the standard blueprint for resolving the conflict, and which is accepted by the whole of the International community, and is rejected by Israel and the U.S - the U.S having used it's power of automatic veto at the U.N to block any peaceful settlement for the past 45 years. This is a fact, not an opinion.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-sieg ... ocess-scam
'...The problem is not, as Israelis often claim, that Palestinians do not know how to compromise. (Another former prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, famously complained that ‘Palestinians take and take while Israel gives and gives.’) That is an indecent charge, since the Palestinians made much the most far-reaching compromise of all when the PLO formally accepted the legitimacy of Israel within the 1949 armistice border. With that concession, Palestinians ceded their claim to more than half the territory that the UN’s partition resolution had assigned to its Arab inhabitants. They have never received any credit for this wrenching concession, made years before Israel agreed that Palestinians had a right to statehood in any part of Palestine. The notion that further border adjustments should be made at the expense of the 22 per cent of the territory that remains to the Palestinians is deeply offensive to them, and understandably so.
Nonetheless, the Palestinians agreed at the Camp David summit to adjustments to the pre-1967 border that would allow large numbers of West Bank settlers – about 70 per cent – to remain within the Jewish state, provided they received comparable territory on Israel’s side of the border. Barak rejected this.'
um, I was just asking what I thought was a legitimate question, asking you to elaborate on a previous comment.
never mind I guess.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
People can put pressure on their governments by way of petitions, public statements, and demonstrations. And if enough people feel strongly enough about something they can change it. In the case of the countries I mentioned, the citizens of those countries rose up and overthrew the leaders who they deemed unfit to continue - obviously the situation in Turkey is still playing out.
So where does that all fit in with the situation in Israel? The Israeli people have had 45 years to effect a change in the ongoing ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, and yet the creeping annexation of Palestinian land and the construction on racist, Jewish-only settlements continues. So I hardly think their worthy of a collective pat on the back.
So where does that all fit in with the situation in Israel? The Israeli people have had 45 years to effect a change in the ongoing ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, and yet the creeping annexation of Palestinian land and the construction on racist, Jewish-only settlements continues. So I hardly think their worthy of a collective pat on the back."- Byrnzie
Awesome! I'm psyched that the situations in Libya and Egypt are solved. We The People...
Now that they are the model for peace and stability, lets got back to pre-67 borders and assume all will be ok in the world.
The situation is not simple. It's not 45 years. It's not just about settlements. It certainly has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing.
For those who have never been to Israel (including Byrnzie), I encourage you to go there and see the situation with your own eyes. You will soon discover many of your own truths including the constant conflict between politics and religion with domestic and foreign policy (on both side of the border).
Much of this thread is completely focused on settlements. They are unquestionably a problem that must be dealt with. But so is a Palestinian government along with the security of all of Israel's borders and airspace.
2013- Brooklyn2, Philly1, Philly2, NOLA
The Palestinian governments of both Hamas and Fatah have both agreed to the terms laid out in U.N 242 - terms accepted by the whole World, and which Israel and the U.S stand alone in opposing.
Why are you pretending that the Palestinians are the obstacle to peace? That's just an attempt to turn reality on it's head.
http://www.usacbi.org/2013/05/open-lett ... icia-keys/
Explain this to me. In your own words, Since 1967, the PLO, Fatah, and Hamas have never wavered once in their desire to begin an "implementation" 242. never?
And I don't believe I ever stated that the problem was solely on the Palestinian side. If you find it, I apologize... But I doubt those would be my words.
2013- Brooklyn2, Philly1, Philly2, NOLA
Not as far as I know. Either way, it's irrelevant. The onus on 242 is a withdrawal of Israeli forces from occupied territories. I don't think the Palestinians would have a lot to do with that.
The blog entry below contains what seem to be fabricated quotes from Jeff and Eddie....can't find support for them anywhere, and I can't find any reference to a press conference discussing this.....
But the url thing has me confused....? Can any techies out there explain how this could happen, or be falsified somehow? You click the link, it takes you to this site (pearljam.com).....the url is in the address bar but the text on the page mentions nothing about what is stated in the url. Weird. I did see mention in an article/interview about/with Roger Waters, a mention that PJ had cancelled a gig in Israel - so I did some googling and this blog is all I came up with....
I really hope this isn't a slip-up/leak of sorts....and if it was, that the show was indeed cancelled.
(damn, the board is shortening the url so I broke it so that people can see what it says.)
http://pearljam.com/news/0/1/21610/pearl jam_announces_one_show_in_israel_in_july_2014
April 02, 2013
Pearl Jam announces Israel gig but not to American fans
See this? It happens to me sometimes. I give a post a headline and then change it but the url still records the original headline. A similar thing has happened to Pearl Jam with the headline being,
Pearl Jam Announces Two Shows in July 2013
whereas the url is:
http://pearljam.com/news/0/1/21610/pear ... _july_2014
Now that's a funny thing. Let's check the content:
I know what to do. Let's google, "Pearl Jam announces one show in Israel in July 2014". Note, it's in quotes because I'm feeling lucky. Now what comes up?
That's it. It's an Israeli site, café.mouse.co.il and they are excited:
Now I'd never heard of Pearl Jam but they've got nearly 2,000,000 on their twitter account so maybe they don't know about BDS and the fact that Israel is an illegitimate colonial settler state based on ethnic cleansing and segregationist laws.
http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.ca/s ... earl%20Jam
Sorry if this has been discussed already, I missed it if so.
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Jakarta, Indonesia
BDO 2014 Melbourne + Sydney
#BringPearlJamToIndonesia
That would be a great day.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
http://www.acousticguitar.com/News/Neil-Young-Cancels-Israel-Show
Neil Young and Crazy Horse have canceled their scheduled July 17 concert in Tel Aviv due to the ongoing Israel-Hamas conflict, the band announced in a statement Sunday.
"It is with heavy hearts and deep sadness that we must cancel our one and only Israeli concert due to tensions which have rendered the event unsafe at this time,” a spokesperson for Young said in a press statement.
Israeli airstrikes within the Gaza Strip and return rocket fire from targeted Hamas have been ongoing since July 7. Tensions have escalated in the region since late June when three Israeli teenagers were kidnapped and later found dead in the West Bank; within days Israeli authorities had detained hundreds of Palestinians in its investigation into the murders. On July 2, a Palestinian boy was kidnapped and killed in an apparent retaliation.
Young had been scheduled to play July 17 in Hayarkon Park—his first show in Israel in more than a decade. More than 30,000 tickets had reportedly been sold for Thursday’s show, the lone Israeli stop on Young’s summer European tour. With more than people 175 killed and 1100 wounded, thus far in the conflict, security officials deemed such a large concert gathering too dangerous.
“We'll miss the opportunity to play for our fans and look forward to playing in Israel and Palestine in peace,” continued the statement.
Young said he plans to make donations to the Louise Tillie Alpert Youth Music Centre of Israel, and Heartbeat, “two organizations that teach music to Palestinian and Israeli youth simultaneously by enabling them to play music together."
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
hahahaha....
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."