Options
To those opposed to comprehensive universal health insurance
kenny olav
Posts: 3,323
I hope you suffer the same fate as some of my clients who are being completely bankrupted by their medical expenses. Honestly, there is ZERO excuse for allowing this to happen to people in this country!! It could happen to any of us.
96% of Canadians prefer their health system to ours. They still bitch about their system, and that's good. They should make sure it works as well as possible. But our system is not working at all. Pisses me the fuck off!!!!!!!!!!!
96% of Canadians prefer their health system to ours. They still bitch about their system, and that's good. They should make sure it works as well as possible. But our system is not working at all. Pisses me the fuck off!!!!!!!!!!!
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
the thing is, we British still bitch about our system as well... but it's a fucktruck lots better than the US one... I don't know any other modern Western country that doesnt have UHC. What America has is a complete aversion to any form of change.... be it guns, tax systems, UHC.. it doesnt matter... It will always be shouted down from a few loud voices suggesting that any form of change is a form of government intrusion on their freedoms. it's so archaic its unreal.
from what I'm hearing congress wants one thing for the general public and a different plan for them self's,
I have had Kaiser insurance for many year's so honestly I don't know how a change would affect me.
it all seems to be a big mess though.
Godfather.
My employer pays $9.50/hr for every hour that I work to pay for my healthcare plan. What I want to know is if the UHC passes, will that $9.50/hr go back into my paycheck? I'm guessing no.
9/29/04 Boston, 6/28/08 Mansfield, 8/23/09 Chicago, 5/15/10 Hartford
5/17/10 Boston, 10/15/13 Worcester, 10/16/13 Worcester, 10/25/13 Hartford
8/5/16 Fenway, 8/7/16 Fenway
EV Solo: 6/16/11 Boston, 6/18/11 Hartford,
If you put nothing into the system, you should get nothing out.
I don't know who said it, but to paraphrase, "as soon as the masses realize they can vote themselves money, that will be the end of democracy as we know it."
may seem harsh, but in the long run it would be better for us as a country if more people felt that hard work and determination were the way to get something in life. Sitting around and not working should not get you anything.
edit
A democracy can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. ...
this is the exact quote
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
yup! ... bitching and acting on that change! ... if we have to elect new mps every 4 years ... so be it ... we deserve better!
Obama can't keep the insurance companies out or the drug companies or whoever ... UHC cannot work in a privatized medium ... too many people will need to make too much money for it to be sustainable ...
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
And oh yeah ... we're going to let our government run this? Are you joking me?
Can't wait.
10-31-2009 Spectrum
5-18-2010 Newark
but i guess you are ok with paying for needless wars, no bid contracts and bonuses to them even after they have been found to have committed numerous counts of fraud against the government in their billing? or the tens of billions we spend to fight drugs, take pot smokers to court and then lock them up?
are you mad that you help pay for roads for everyone else to drive on, too? or that you pay for other people to check books out of your county's library? how do you feel about paying for the police and fire department for everyone in your town?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
No, I'm not OK with those things either. Why would you assume I would be?
10-31-2009 Spectrum
5-18-2010 Newark
because i've never seen you complain about having to pay for any of them before.
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
My parents sent all 8 of us kids to Catholic schools and ALWAYS voted for tax bonds for the public schools.
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
So the only way to be a good person with good values is to work my ass off, 3 jobs, 70 hours a week and pay for other people to have what I have? Hmmm ... I think The Soviet Union tried that. Works great, doesn't it?
10-31-2009 Spectrum
5-18-2010 Newark
None of them do. Anyone notice that the Post Office likely won't be around much longer?
The solution to the health PAYMENT problem is simple:
1. Make HSA's much more common so that people are putting away pre-tax dollars and paying for their healthcare essentially out of pocket up to their deductible. You can't tell me that healthcare costs won't be lower without insurance involved. After that, health insurance kicks in. Premiums would be much lower.
2. Allow insurance companies to compete across state lines.
I also think companies should get out of the business of providing health insurance. People should purchase their plans on their own with the extra money their employers can afford to pay them.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
how would giving people healthcare force you to work 3 jobs??
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
here's the thing... these people pay their health insurance premiums, but they are undercovered. this could happen to any of us, including those who buy health insurance.
no one should go broke because they are sick. if you agree, let's solve this. if you don't agree, i have no time for you.
i agree part of the problem is that our government is dysfunctional. i think this country is too big for the feds to run everything, personally... but you still could have a federal payout system and have all of the hospitals and doctors be private. i think it works like this in canada, maybe someone could enlighten us on that?
and here's a question.... if you dont work and dont pay taxes, should the police not give a fuck about you if a crime is commited against you? its the same principle of only getting what you pay into, right?
But do you think we shouldn't have those things?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
The IRS works pretty well. :twisted: And I don't think people are complaining too much about the existing Medicare program. The Post Office is only hurting because of e-mail and the internet. C'mon now.
I'm sorry, but we need to cover everyone, not just work on schemes to lower payments. And by taking competition out of the equation, we can lower the cost of healthcare because competition requires advertising and such.
Not only that but if you take out competition health care becomes non-profit. So instead of companies that make X% profit that gets paid out as dividends, that money gets invested back into the system to keep costs that people have to pay lower.
Using an extreme example is not going to prove your point any faster. I do think that health care COSTS are out of line with what they should be, but that doesn't mean I want to pay for INSURANCE for other people. Policeman and fireman, US soldiers, anyone who keeps the public generally SAFER is not a one person problem, just like in the clinic I work at we do public health work and prevent the spread of std's, hiv and TB. That is a risk to the whole public, so really it is apples and oranges. I think many people are really ignorant to the wealth of programs that are already out there to help pay for their medical care, at least in the great state of minnesota
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
that's a odd thing to say..why ?
Godfather.
logic is great, but it is flawed here. Cops are for PUBLIC safety. someone who is underinsured getting sick is not a public health risk unless it is with a disease or virus that is deemed a public health risk. In which case there are already programs that take care of people with these problems. you cannot compare the two. In fact, I will jump and say yes you can, but you can only compare them as public safety and health issues, bob johnson getting cancer is not a public risk and should not be paid for by the people who pay the taxes. Sorry if you disagree, but it always seems as though people are always able to spend other people's money. I work hard for everything I have and I don't expect a hand out from anyone, I have been unemployed for a long period of time and scraped and saved and got back on my feet. Universal Health Care, especially in the form that is before the house and senate will be a disaster. I certainly feel terrible for people who go broke because of an illness, I actually donate a lot of my salary (lucky enough to have made my share) to our meds program for Ryan White clients, but I don't think I should be forced to do any of it. This will be health care for all but at a huge cost to everyone else, and I don't think they measure up. Until they come up with a system that won't cripple more people than it will help I cannot support it
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Also, and this is more of a sidenote, one of the main tenets our nation was founded upon was the idea of majority protecting the silent minority. Obviously throughout history this hasn't been followed or done, and yes we do have an inflated welfare state now, but do people not realize we have this in a basic sense because it's for everyone's best interest? Sometimes I think people forget this fact and yes there are scams and lazy people in society but as a whole, we should aim to help and create policies which benefit all, not just those that can afford basic necessities we can offer, but irrationally do not.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis