To those opposed to comprehensive universal health insurance

Pepe Silvia

bigballsbilly wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

how would giving people healthcare force you to work 3 jobs??

That's not what I said, is it? Stop putting words in my mouth. That's the second time you did that.

I made my point. Our government can't govern, yet we're supposed to let them run a health care system? hardworking people bust their ass to provide and do the right thing for their family, and I don't think they should have to pay for those that DON'T. I'm not saying our medical system isn't messed up, just that THIS is not the way.

I am done on this subject. Let's just enjoy the PJ shall we? My bad for commenting on this. I should have known better. Sorry.

over react much? i did NOT put words in your mouth twice. the first reply i asked you questions, ya see a '?' at the end of a sentence usually means the person is asking you, not telling you. i asked if you were ok with those things and you said no, though it is odd that spending money on health care makes you so angry and not those other things

the other was a reply to you saying

bigballsbilly wrote:

\
So the only way to be a good person with good values is to work my ass off, 3 jobs, 70 hours a week and pay for other people to have what I have?

i did not understand the point of that. who asked you to work 3 jobs to pay for people to have what you have? if that's not relating to health care, which this thread is about, what are you talking about?

dunkman

bigballsbilly wrote:

Yeah! I'm really looking forward to paying for every body elses medical insurance. I can't wait. It's just not enough that I pay for everyone elses kid to go to public school while I pay good money to send mine to Catholic schools. Just can't wait.

And oh yeah ... we're going to let our government run this? Are you joking me?

Can't wait.

there's another flaw... Schools shouldn't be attached to religion. a school is a school... let the children make their own minds up about religion instead of having it force fed to them like french geese.

aerial

dunkman wrote:

bigballsbilly wrote:

Yeah! I'm really looking forward to paying for every body elses medical insurance. I can't wait. It's just not enough that I pay for everyone elses kid to go to public school while I pay good money to send mine to Catholic schools. Just can't wait.

And oh yeah ... we're going to let our government run this? Are you joking me?

Can't wait.

there's another flaw... Schools shouldn't be attached to religion. a school is a school... let the children make their own minds up about religion instead of having it force fed to them like french geese.

Not teaching a child that there is a God is teaching them there is no God Why would that be concidered more right
If parents wish their children to be brought up as Christians, or, for that matter, atheists, what right do others have to stop them?
Parents and grandparents have passed on family traditions and beliefs as far back as we know...why are we expected to stop that now....It’s crazy to know there are people out there that feel parents have no right to teach their children their ancestry .........it is the children’s birthright to know

redrock

aerial wrote:

dunkman wrote:

bigballsbilly wrote:

Yeah! I'm really looking forward to paying for every body elses medical insurance. I can't wait. It's just not enough that I pay for everyone elses kid to go to public school while I pay good money to send mine to Catholic schools. Just can't wait.

And oh yeah ... we're going to let our government run this? Are you joking me?

Can't wait.

there's another flaw... Schools shouldn't be attached to religion. a school is a school... let the children make their own minds up about religion instead of having it force fed to them like french geese.

Not teaching a child that there is a God is teaching them there is no God Why would that be concidered more right
If parents wish their children to be brought up as Christians, or, for that matter, atheists, what right do others have to stop them?
Parents and grandparents have passed on family traditions and beliefs as far back as we know...why are we expected to stop that now....It’s crazy to know there are people out there that feel parents have no right to teach their children their ancestry .........it is the children’s birthright to know

Ummm.... I don't think anyone said that parents couldn't teach their children what they want.....

When it comes to schools, I believe the state has a duty to provide 'general' schooling open to all and hopefully 'offending' none , ie non religious values and no political biais. Should parents wish their children be educated differently, ie as catholics, muslims, jews, or whatever and a private school is their only option, so be it. Pay for private education. Though, where I live, not only do we hve national health, we also have FREE catholic schools!

dunkman

aerial wrote:

Not teaching a child that there is a God is teaching them there is no God Why would that be concidered more right
If parents wish their children to be brought up as Christians, or, for that matter, atheists, what right do others have to stop them?
Parents and grandparents have passed on family traditions and beliefs as far back as we know...why are we expected to stop that now....It’s crazy to know there are people out there that feel parents have no right to teach their children their ancestry .........it is the children’s birthright to know

ancestry and religion are two completely separate things :?

I said I don't think children should be taught in a Catholic school just because their parents are Catholics. That is what church is for... let the school educate them on facts. Religion shouldn't even enter a child's head when they are at school... their minds are so innocent and sponge-like... shame to ruin that with religion at such a young age.

even flow - question mark

kenny olav wrote:

I hope you suffer the same fate as some of my clients who are being completely bankrupted by their medical expenses. Honestly, there is ZERO excuse for allowing this to happen to people in this country!! It could happen to any of us.

96% of Canadians prefer their health system to ours. They still bitch about their system, and that's good. They should make sure it works as well as possible. But our system is not working at all. Pisses me the fuck off!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, that's still a problem down there? I haven't noticed.

know1

kenny olav wrote:

I'm sorry, but we need to cover everyone, not just work on schemes to lower payments. And by taking competition out of the equation, we can lower the cost of healthcare because competition requires advertising and such.

You should be sorry, because that's the kind of attitude that's gotten us in the mess we're in today.

The very reason that you think "we need to cover everyone" is the fact that costs have gotten out of control with no competition and nobody with insurance giving a darn what medical care costs.

know1

SundaySilence wrote:

know1 wrote:

Can someone name one government program that works well, though?

Sewers

Not in my community. We're facing large fines to the federal government due to a poor sewer system.

know1

Most people that keep repeating the mantra that everyone needs to be covered are just trying to treat symptoms and not really focusing on the problem.

The reason so many can't afford healthcare is that the costs are too high - thus forcing most people to need insurance.

So apparently the solution is not to try to lower those costs, but rather to just use tax dollars to cover everyone at super high costs?

SPEEDY MCCREADY

kenny olav wrote:

I hope you suffer the same fate as some of my clients who are being completely bankrupted by their medical expenses. Honestly, there is ZERO excuse for allowing this to happen to people in this country!! It could happen to any of us.

96% of Canadians prefer their health system to ours. They still bitch about their system, and that's good. They should make sure it works as well as possible. But our system is not working at all. Pisses me the fuck off!!!!!!!!!!!

Good morning....
Always a pleasure to see you.....
Hope to have a drink with you at one of the upcoming shows......
Pearl Jam Rocks!!!!!!

I am opposed to comprehensive universal health insurance.

And because of that, do you really want me to end up bankrupt??? hehehe

kenny olav

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

kenny olav wrote:

I hope you suffer the same fate as some of my clients who are being completely bankrupted by their medical expenses. Honestly, there is ZERO excuse for allowing this to happen to people in this country!! It could happen to any of us.

96% of Canadians prefer their health system to ours. They still bitch about their system, and that's good. They should make sure it works as well as possible. But our system is not working at all. Pisses me the fuck off!!!!!!!!!!!

Good morning....
Always a pleasure to see you.....
Hope to have a drink with you at one of the upcoming shows......
Pearl Jam Rocks!!!!!!

I am opposed to comprehensive universal health insurance.

And because of that, do you really want me to end up bankrupt??? hehehe

Haha Speedy, yeah same here, except for me wanting you to go bankrupt of course. My original post was a heat-of-the-moment type thing. It could happen to you though. I'm just really tired of hearing these stories of good, hard working people having such problems when they reach what should be their golden years. And I'm sure there's many more stories of good people of all ages who have been screwed. There's no excuse for it, and part of the problem is our government doesn't inspire us to trust it to work for us.

You didn't know I was such a commie, did you? My hippie costume at the halloween show in Philly was really just my normal clothing (except for the wig and the tacky beads, that's actually true). When we have drinks at the next show, I'll get you to come around to my way of thinking... mark my words!! Whether the government will ever get around to my way of thinking... that seems a lot more difficult. Unfortunately I can't think of any elected politician on the national scene right now who makes me think "yes, that's the man/woman I want working for me". If you watch C-Span long enough (who doesn't love watching C-Span, right? :? ) there are some no-name representative who actually do leave me feeling inspired... but the ones who make the rounds on all of the news shows... eff them all!! I can't even watch anymore.

kenny olav

know1 wrote:

kenny olav wrote:

I'm sorry, but we need to cover everyone, not just work on schemes to lower payments. And by taking competition out of the equation, we can lower the cost of healthcare because competition requires advertising and such.

You should be sorry, because that's the kind of attitude that's gotten us in the mess we're in today.

The very reason that you think "we need to cover everyone" is the fact that costs have gotten out of control with no competition and nobody with insurance giving a darn what medical care costs.

I think some here have made the case better than I... so I'm not sure what else to say. We can cover everyone and lower the costs of health care. Are Americans incapable of doing what other countries do? That's not the attitude I want to have. I think we are capable.

_

I just learned of a woman who's health insurance premiums were just raised by $97 per month because she's too thin. Apparently her BMI is "too low" by 1 point. Unfuckingbelievable.

gimmesometruth27

scb wrote:

I just learned of a woman who's health insurance premiums were just raised by $97 per month because she's too thin. Apparently her BMI is "too low" by 1 point. Unfuckingbelievable.

is that a pre-existing condition? seriously, these insurance companies are worse than pimps...

Starfall

aerial wrote:

Not teaching a child that there is a God is teaching them there is no God Why would that be concidered more right
If parents wish their children to be brought up as Christians, or, for that matter, atheists, what right do others have to stop them?
Parents and grandparents have passed on family traditions and beliefs as far back as we know...why are we expected to stop that now....It’s crazy to know there are people out there that feel parents have no right to teach their children their ancestry .........it is the children’s birthright to know

So the First Amendment is of no consequence to you?
Nobody's saying that parents don't have a right to teach their kids religion. Heck, as far as I'm concerned, parents can teach their kids about old men with white beards in the sky directing traffic on earth, or that they're descended from pirates to spread Pastafarianism, or they're the Chosen One sent to unify the Force. But do it at home, not in the public schools.
Our public schools are there to teach the general population, not to cater to the whims of a few. Hence the First Amendment.

Starfall

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

scb wrote:

I just learned of a woman who's health insurance premiums were just raised by $97 per month because she's too thin. Apparently her BMI is "too low" by 1 point. Unfuckingbelievable.

is that a pre-existing condition? seriously, these insurance companies are worse than pimps...

Why not? Apparently some of them classify domestic violenceto be a pre-existing condition too. Get unlucky enough to be beat up by your boyfriend, you're caught in a double bind because your insurance company won't cover your treatment afterwards. :roll:

know1

kenny olav wrote:

know1 wrote:

kenny olav wrote:

I'm sorry, but we need to cover everyone, not just work on schemes to lower payments. And by taking competition out of the equation, we can lower the cost of healthcare because competition requires advertising and such.

You should be sorry, because that's the kind of attitude that's gotten us in the mess we're in today.

The very reason that you think "we need to cover everyone" is the fact that costs have gotten out of control with no competition and nobody with insurance giving a darn what medical care costs.

I think some here have made the case better than I... so I'm not sure what else to say. We can cover everyone and lower the costs of health care. Are Americans incapable of doing what other countries do? That's not the attitude I want to have. I think we are capable.

You really think you can cover more people with health insurance and lower the costs of health care....without doing anything to lower its cost other than provide more people insurance coverage. I don't get it.

Pepe Silvia

aerial wrote:

dunkman wrote:

bigballsbilly wrote:

Yeah! I'm really looking forward to paying for every body elses medical insurance. I can't wait. It's just not enough that I pay for everyone elses kid to go to public school while I pay good money to send mine to Catholic schools. Just can't wait.

And oh yeah ... we're going to let our government run this? Are you joking me?

Can't wait.

there's another flaw... Schools shouldn't be attached to religion. a school is a school... let the children make their own minds up about religion instead of having it force fed to them like french geese.

Not teaching a child that there is a God is teaching them there is no God Why would that be concidered more right
If parents wish their children to be brought up as Christians, or, for that matter, atheists, what right do others have to stop them?
Parents and grandparents have passed on family traditions and beliefs as far back as we know...why are we expected to stop that now....It’s crazy to know there are people out there that feel parents have no right to teach their children their ancestry .........it is the children’s birthright to know

actually, not teaching a kid about god is nowhere near teaching them that there isn't a god! all through my school career vietnam wasn't brought up until college, does that mean before that i was being taught the vietnam war never happened? we never got to the korean war, either, and yet i don't feel my school system is a korean war denier.

secondly, we are talking about teaching religion in school, just because a person doesn't want religion in school doesn't mean they are telling you that you can't teach your kids about god at home.

you say it's their birthright and generations have passed it down....you can say that of every religion so which god should schools be pushing? because i doubt they'd have the time to cover all the major religions and outside of a project to expose kids to different religions i'd say it just doesn't belong in a public school system. the fight for it is rooted in hypocrisy because they usually only want their religion pushed, no one else's

aerial

bigballsbilly wrote: while I pay good money to send mine to Catholic schools

Then

dunkman wrote:there's another flaw... Schools shouldn't be attached to religion. a school is a school... let the children make their own minds up about religion instead of having it force fed to them like french geese.

So Pepe Silvia it looked to me that dunkman was sayiying we should not teach our children there faith....hence my post
God and the vietnam war are apples and oranges....
I do believe that prayer in school is okay but I was referring in my post to the fact some think it’s wrong to teach our own children about God...

unsung

scb wrote:

I just learned of a woman who's health insurance premiums were just raised by $97 per month because she's too thin. Apparently her BMI is "too low" by 1 point. Unfuckingbelievable.

BMI is useless. I can't believe it can be used to deny coverage.