Boom question/i hate keyboards

Anon · June 2008

StuffnJunk wrote:

well for the type of band we are, truth be told it really would behoove us to have two guitars and keys.....the thing is i am older (31), and have finally learned to hold back and "less is more" and silence is best for parts of songs, etc.....and the other guitarist is young and absolutely CANNOT ever stop playing for one second in any song, not to mention in between songs when we are trying to talk....then just as i have finally started to get through to him to tone it down, in comes a young keyboard player and it is just a fucking explosion of noise, and now the other guitarist turns back up in an effort to be heard......so i think it could def be a good thing, even a necessity, but it needs work and it is frustrating to work with youngers guys who are still awed at hearing their amp at full blast, when i feel i have finally learned to turn down and be cooperative....but i was the loud guitarist in all the other bands i've been in , i finally matured and now i expect everyone to be quiet like me!!!

oh, the irony...

what is wrong with you!

why is it so difficult for you to understand the importance of my guitar being the loudest, most badass instrument on the stage. It seems logical to me that my guitar should be seen for what it truly is... a weapon of mass destruction, laying sonic waste to all who stand before it (this includes any sounds that may be coming from the bass player, the drums or indeed any low-flying aircraft).

and yes! i do have a look of innocent confusion on my face when the sound engineer rushes to the front of the stage and shouts instructions at me, It's not my fault he has to scream these instructions at me a number of times cause i can't hear him with my amp turned up wicked loud. Usually that's when i'll turn to the rest of the guys, and tell them to kindly shut their noiseholes and stop playing because i can't hear what the sound engineer is saying dammit!!!!!

It's also not my fault when he checks that everyone is in the mix. Like why does he need to go through us one at a time, and how dare he start with our drummer first! does he expect me to just sit and wait my turn and not play my guitar! Seriously! I don't see why he would find it difficult to check the snare drum sound while i'm wailing to my latest SRV lick at demonic decibel levels!

Also, someone needs to tell everyone that the people in the front row love it when their ears bleed like mofos. right?

Hehe, well clearly i'm just messing around, i would never act like that, but oh yeah i've seen it

and stuffnjunk i totally get what you are saying. The 'sound' of any successful band is a synergy of all the various members playing together. That's a no brainer. You've just got to convince all the other people in your band that

All Those Yesterdays · June 2008

Pj_Gurl wrote:

what is wrong with you!

why is it so difficult for you to understand the importance of my guitar being the loudest, most badass instrument on the stage. It seems logical to me that my guitar should be seen for what it truly is... a weapon of mass destruction, laying sonic waste to all who stand before it (this includes any sounds that may be coming from the bass player, the drums or indeed any low-flying aircraft).

and yes! i do have a look of innocent confusion on my face when the sound engineer rushes to the front of the stage and shouts instructions at me, It's not my fault he has to scream these instructions at me a number of times cause i can't hear him with my amp turned up wicked loud. Usually that's when i'll turn to the rest of the guys, and tell them to kindly shut their noiseholes and stop playing because i can't hear what the sound engineer is saying dammit!!!!!

It's also not my fault when he checks that everyone is in the mix. Like why does he need to go through us one at a time, and how dare he start with our drummer first! does he expect me to just sit and wait my turn and not play my guitar! Seriously! I don't see why he would find it difficult to check the snare drum sound while i'm wailing to my latest SRV lick at demonic decibel levels!

Also, someone needs to tell everyone that the people in the front row love it when their ears bleed like mofos. right?

Hehe, well clearly i'm just messing around, i would never act like that, but oh yeah i've seen it and stuffnjunk i totally get what you are saying. The 'sound' of any successful band is a synergy of all the various members playing together. That's a no brainer. You've just got to convince all the other people in your band that

You should of saw the water flying out of my nose when I read this post

LoveRock333 · June 2008

StuffnJunk wrote:

did Boom play on everything in 2003? am i right that he stayed on stage for every song, even ones like Animal that have absolutley no room for organ?

then it seems like in 2004 on onward he is only onstage for songs that "require" organ....he is not there for every song anymore - is that right?

i am in a cover band... we have 2 guitars, and i have been frustrated as shit trying to get the other guitarist to turn down/not play in parts of the song....just as i am getting a handle on him, the other guys bring a keyboardist down to our last practice...i HATED it, the sounds are so cheesy, all it does is add to the overall NOISE, and i HATED it (did i mention that?)

so i wonder how someone like stone feels about Boom, can't say i've ever heard him or any of the others shower Boom with compliments in interviews....stone goes from his riffs being the centerpice of songs to one little piece of the big mush of sound they have now

now i know why he switched from a les paul to strat - i was thinking the same thing at practice "why play this heavy ass LP when you can hardly hear me anyhow? i may as well just play my strat, for no other reason than its lighter"

i guess its ego on my part, i'd rather be a big part of the song as opposed to just part of the mix...sue me

The trick is to turn down the volume of the keyboard on guitar/bass heavy songs. It's really more of a backing instrument in those instances. Obviously if the song is more quiet, then turn up the keys (only if it suits the song, though). But keys sound awesome when used properly (and I don't mean just played well).

Oh, and if your band is just making noise, well, it might not just be the keyboards fault. Just sayin'. Good luck!

mca47 · June 2008

I think the organ has its place. I prefer piano over organ though.

StuffnJunk · June 2008

LoveRock333 wrote:

The trick is to turn down the volume of the keyboard on guitar/bass heavy songs. It's really more of a backing instrument in those instances. Obviously if the song is more quiet, then turn up the keys (only if it suits the song, though). But keys sound awesome when used properly (and I don't mean just played well).

Oh, and if your band is just making noise, well, it might not just be the keyboards fault. Just sayin'. Good luck!

well our drummer plays very loud and we have been on his case about that, our young guitarist plays loud too and we've been on his case.....i bought a volume pedal for this band so my goal above all else has been to turn down and hold back.....its like for hard hitting songs it is difficult to play "hard" without turning up, i know it seems simple but i guess its easier said than done...but we're working on it, to add another instrument like keys justs seems like we are back to square one as far as dynamics, its a whole new beast to be tamed...

yeah Ian, i tape every second of music i've ever played on a little cheap ass cassette recorder, the songs don't sound bad with the keys, and i definitely know what you mean about how things that sound good in the moment can sound like shit afterward and vice versa!!! we all agree we need keys for this band, i am just a bit hesitant, i am usually the one to disagree on everything, and we have discussed cramped stages, etc

HushBull · June 2008

All Those Yesterdays wrote:

But that organ in Save You is a cool fit.

Agreed!!!!!!!!

All Those Yesterdays · June 2008

HushBull wrote:

Agreed!!!!!!!!

sweet!

Kosuke Fukudome · June 2008

God. Grow up keyboard haters. If you don't like keys, you aren't a real musician as far as I'm concerned. The best rock bands have ALWAYS had organs/keys in songs. Zep, The Who, PJ, Radiohead, Beatles, etc. etc. etc.

MichaelMcKevin · June 2008

Kosuke Fukudome wrote:

If you don't like keys, you aren't a real musician as far as I'm concerned.

I have to agree with this in sort of a weird way. I mean it's okay to say "I don't like keys with Slipknot," but I don't think you can really say "I hate keys" and actually say you like music.

Some of my favorite rock bands use organ and piano. Some in a classic way, some for synthesizers and unique textures. Key-instruments of any kind are always so musical.

seanw1010 · June 2008

keeponrockin wrote:

Listen to the Black Crowes - AMAZING use of organ!

yes!

ianvomsaal · June 2008

- Butch Taylor's Keyboard/Piano solo in "Two Step" from Dave Matthews Band "Listener Supported" PBS is one of my all time favorites.
I love how it starts so simple and then swells to such a great ending - Plus Carter Beauford on Drums takes everything over the top.

- Charlie Gillingham's Hammond B3 solo (1:55 in) on "Ghost Train" from the Counting Crows "August and Everything After" CD.
It's only 50-seconds long, but it still gives me goose-bumps (absolutely wonderful, and such a simple solo - and it's not even one of my
favorite songs - I usually fast forward to the solo and then listen back to it a few times). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gojScq957UQ

88keys · June 2008

As a pianist/keyboardist/organist, I have mixed feelings about this post. The piano lover in me wants to say that there is always room in any song for a good piano/keyboard/organ (especially a B3!) part. But the musician in me knows that it doesn't always work like that. Bands like The Doors, Deep Purple, Yes and Emerson, Lake & Palmer are different because the keyboard/organs were always an integral part of the band. But a band like Pearl Jam, it only fits with certain songs (i.e. Save You, LBC, Crazy Mary). But when they try to add it to songs that were orignally written w/o it, it hardly ever works (i.e. Alive).

StuffnJunk · June 2008

ianvomsaal wrote:

- Butch Taylor's Keyboard/Piano solo in "Two Step" from Dave Matthews Band "Listener Supported" PBS is one of my all time favorites.
I love how it starts so simple and then swells to such a great ending - Plus Carter Beauford on Drums takes everything over the top.

- Charlie Gillingham's Hammond B3 solo (1:55 in) on "Ghost Train" from the Counting Crows "August and Everything After" CD.
It's only 50-seconds long, but it still gives me goose-bumps (absolutely wonderful, and such a simple solo - and it's not even one of my
favorite songs - I usually fast forward to the solo and then listen back to it a few times). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gojScq957UQ

i'll have to check out that Two Step, i know i love the keyboard solo in Long Black Veil from that album

and let me say that the title i gave this thread may be a little strong.....i don't hate piano......some of my favorite bands are Phish, Dave Matthews Band, the Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, etc - bands that make great use of piano

but my band is mostly guitar oriented, and to bring in a keyboardist means there will be a few songs he will add to greatly, and 30 songs he will ruin, or just have to sit out.....however, if a keyboardist becomes a full member of the band, then we will no doubt shift from mostly guitar driven songs to more piano friendly songs, and it will take the band in a whole new direction

i think there are a lot of pearl jam songs that make great use of piano in the studio, but boom playing live on RITFW and Alive, etc adds a cheesy element to these guitar driven songs that i think SUCKS

so like anything else, piano is great when used properly

Anon · June 2008

All Those Yesterdays wrote:

You should of saw the water flying out of my nose when I read this post

then my work is done

haha, i wonder how many people only read the first couple lines and didn't bother about the rest, and thought, 'what a bitch, glad she is not in our band'

lucylespian · June 2008

i was thinking of this thread when i was listenig to meatloaf today.
jim steinman
richard wright
jpj

what's not to love ?

xtremehardy388 · September 2008

I am listening to the 2002 showbox show and Insignificance is playing...the opening has Boom playing and it almost ruined the song for me...

Boom is cool on some songs-even on Save You..but NOT on Insignificance. However, he makes up for it in Betterman, from this show

Piper At The Gates · September 2008

StuffnJunk wrote:

well for the type of band we are, truth be told it really would behoove us to have two guitars and keys.....the thing is i am older (31), and have finally learned to hold back and "less is more" and silence is best for parts of songs, etc.....and the other guitarist is young and absolutely CANNOT ever stop playing for one second in any song, not to mention in between songs when we are trying to talk....then just as i have finally started to get through to him to tone it down, in comes a young keyboard player and it is just a fucking explosion of noise, and now the other guitarist turns back up in an effort to be heard......so i think it could def be a good thing, even a necessity, but it needs work and it is frustrating to work with youngers guys who are still awed at hearing their amp at full blast, when i feel i have finally learned to turn down and be cooperative....but i was the loud guitarist in all the other bands i've been in , i finally matured and now i expect everyone to be quiet like me!!!

oh, the irony...

You have my deepest sympathies, man. I used to look at it like those old westerns when they are trying to tame a bucking bronco. Very frustrating.
The only thing that keeps you sane is knowing that we all went through that period and hopefully, they'll get over it sooner, rather than later. Good luck!

StuffnJunk · September 2008

its funny that someone revived this old thread of mine bitching about adding a keyboard player

it is now 3 months later, and our band sounds better than ever, totally pro if i do say so myself, and it is thanks to the keyboard player!!

i can't even listen to tapes or watch the videos of us before we got him, it sounds so empty and shitty....of course, the rest of us have gotten tighter as a band as well

we are still loud, but that is something we are really working on....the drummer plays loud as shit, and he says he has a hard time playing softer yet still keeping up the intensity the songs need

and the other guitarist has got to buy a volume pedal....every practice he starts out so low you can't hear him, and by the end of practice he has graudually gotten louder to the point it is deafening....gotta get on his case tonight!!

xtremehardy388 · September 2008

StuffnJunk wrote:

its funny that someone revived this old thread of mine bitching about adding a keyboard player

it is now 3 months later, and our band sounds better than ever, totally pro if i do say so myself, and it is thanks to the keyboard player!!

i can't even listen to tapes or watch the videos of us before we got him, it sounds so empty and shitty....of course, the rest of us have gotten tighter as a band as well

we are still loud, but that is something we are really working on....the drummer plays loud as shit, and he says he has a hard time playing softer yet still keeping up the intensity the songs need

and the other guitarist has got to buy a volume pedal....every practice he starts out so low you can't hear him, and by the end of practice he has graudually gotten louder to the point it is deafening....gotta get on his case tonight!!

I wasn't trying to bitch about Boom...just that it some of the songs sounded bad with it...others were totally cool with it

ianvomsaal · September 2008

StuffnJunk wrote:

....the drummer plays loud as shit, and he says he has a hard time playing softer yet still keeping up the intensity the songs need

Maybe ask your drummer to try some lighter sticks . . . they'll allow him to hit things just
as hard as he always did, but there won't be quite as much volume behind his hits.

I use to play with a very heavy hitter - One rehersal I just broke down and brought him
some lighter sticks, pair of brushes, & a pair of ProMark Rods - kind of my way of saying
"please try these tonight" - and he was actually happy someone bought him stuff to try.

Boom question/i hate keyboards

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