Boom question/i hate keyboards

StuffnJunk

did Boom play on everything in 2003? am i right that he stayed on stage for every song, even ones like Animal that have absolutley no room for organ?

then it seems like in 2004 on onward he is only onstage for songs that "require" organ....he is not there for every song anymore - is that right?

i am in a cover band... we have 2 guitars, and i have been frustrated as shit trying to get the other guitarist to turn down/not play in parts of the song....just as i am getting a handle on him, the other guys bring a keyboardist down to our last practice...i HATED it, the sounds are so cheesy, all it does is add to the overall NOISE, and i HATED it (did i mention that?)

so i wonder how someone like stone feels about Boom, can't say i've ever heard him or any of the others shower Boom with compliments in interviews....stone goes from his riffs being the centerpice of songs to one little piece of the big mush of sound they have now

now i know why he switched from a les paul to strat - i was thinking the same thing at practice "why play this heavy ass LP when you can hardly hear me anyhow? i may as well just play my strat, for no other reason than its lighter"

i guess its ego on my part, i'd rather be a big part of the song as opposed to just part of the mix...sue me

xtremehardy388

In 2003, he played on Crazy Mary, Alive, Black, You Are, Love Boat Captain and a few others. I don't know if it's over all noise but it doesn't back sense on songs like Alive, at all...actually, it kinda annoyed me a bit. You're not alone on that.

keeponrockin

StuffnJunk wrote:

did Boom play on everything in 2003? am i right that he stayed on stage for every song, even ones like Animal that have absolutley no room for organ?

then it seems like in 2004 on onward he is only onstage for songs that "require" organ....he is not there for every song anymore - is that right?

i am in a cover band... we have 2 guitars, and i have been frustrated as shit trying to get the other guitarist to turn down/not play in parts of the song....just as i am getting a handle on him, the other guys bring a keyboardist down to our last practice...i HATED it, the sounds are so cheesy, all it does is add to the overall NOISE, and i HATED it (did i mention that?)

so i wonder how someone like stone feels about Boom, can't say i've ever heard him or any of the others shower Boom with compliments in interviews....stone goes from his riffs being the centerpice of songs to one little piece of the big mush of sound they have now

now i know why he switched from a les paul to strat - i was thinking the same thing at practice "why play this heavy ass LP when you can hardly hear me anyhow? i may as well just play my strat, for no other reason than its lighter"

i guess its ego on my part, i'd rather be a big part of the song as opposed to just part of the mix...sue me

Listen to the Black Crowes - AMAZING use of organ!

All Those Yesterdays

keeponrockin wrote:

Listen to the Black Crowes - AMAZING use of organ!

Totally agree on the crowes, and glad PJ has added.

StuffnJunk

xtremehardy388 wrote:

In 2003, he played on Crazy Mary, Alive, Black, You Are, Love Boat Captain and a few others. I don't know if it's over all noise but it doesn't back sense on songs like Alive, at all...actually, it kinda annoyed me a bit. You're not alone on that.

the worst is the piano chords in Rockin in the Free World, too awful to even put into words...

keeponrockin

StuffnJunk wrote:

the worst is the piano chords in Rockin in the Free World, too awful to even put into words...

I disagree, I REALLY dig the piano there. Adds sorta a bluesy element. The Boss also has GREAT use of piano.

xtremehardy388

StuffnJunk wrote:

the worst is the piano chords in Rockin in the Free World, too awful to even put into words...

YES!!! That's what I was trying to think of (after a long time of trying to forget). It works with the song for a bluesey tone but totally clashes IMO with the heavy distortion and solos from Mike

Pauk

I think organ is one of those things that sounds great or awful. Boom is great becausehe obviously understands the music and messes around a bit, not just playing the plain chords. On the other hand, I can imagine an inexperienced keyboard player would be much worse. Playing only the general chords does only fill out the sound (or add to the overall noise as you put it). Unless the keyboardist is truly spectacular there's no need for them. They do kinda impede on rhythm guitar a touch, but I don't think it's as big a deal in Pearl jam as you make out. Personally I can hardly make out the organ over the rest of the band other than in Crazy Mary.

PJamGrunge10

I personally think keyboards have no room in a ROCK song... slower songs are fine if done right. But I think it sounds stupid in songs like "Save You" and such.

All Those Yesterdays

PJamGrunge10 wrote:

I personally think keyboards have no room in a ROCK song... slower songs are fine if done right. But I think it sounds stupid in songs like "Save You" and such.

Really? So you don't like Deep Purple? Don't get me wrong there is always a situation where it doesn't fit. But that organ in Save You is a cool fit.

Brisk.

its not a keyboard

is a B3!

westsidepie

All Those Yesterdays wrote:

Really? So you don't like Deep Purple? Don't get me wrong there is always a situation where it doesn't fit. But that organ in Save You is a cool fit.

Also, in 60's rock the organ really had the role or a role equal to the lead guitar. Some of those song had great organ parts. Take a look at the thread in other music on 60s psychedelic rock. I do agree, however, that it has to fit into the song, and you have to compose the piece with the organ in mind for it to really be integrated into the sound of the piece. Also, organ can be really effective in heavy music as well. I think Dream Theater and some of Ozzy's bands have done heavy organ well.

Anon

All Those Yesterdays wrote:

Really? So you don't like Deep Purple?

Deep purples 'lazy'. one of the best organ intro/solos ever. (the guitar solo goes alright too )

and let's not forget the doors.

lucylespian

Pj_Gurl wrote:

Deep purples 'lazy'. one of the best organ intro/solos ever. (the guitar solo goes alright too )

and let's not forget the doors.

Absolutely YES, "Lazy", best song off Machinehad thanks to the organ intro, and let's not forget No Quarter.
I love keys in a rock band. One of the most beloved Australian bands ever, Cold Chisel, had a keys player as the main songwriter and you can't do their best songs without them.
Axel, for all his personality quirks also wrote some great keys parts, November Rain, Estranged spring to mind.

All Those Yesterdays

I would rather see two guitars and a organ, then three guitars. But that's my opinion. They could have a guy up there blowing on a old whiskey jug during Do The Evolution, and it would still probably rock pretty good!!!!

IDgotI

Boom is a pretty amazing addition to the band as far as I'm concerned, but that's because he totally knows his place. Yes he gets his chance to shine in "Crazy Mary"...but appart from that he's pretty much playing pads, chords that just provide a bed for Stone and Mike and Jeff to jump up and down on. Stuffn, sounds like you're in a band that's just taking on players for the sake of it. That can lead to really clunky results for sure. I once read a really cool interview with either Andy Summers or Stuart Copland of the Police. Whichever one of them it was said that they almost thought of silence as a fourth member in the band. They wanted there to be be space, and silence between the notes for the rhythms to bounce off of. Again, I think Boom works for Pearl Jam because they are a disciplined band that knows when to back off and be sparse... but from my personal experience, as soon as you expand beyond power trio it gets really *really* dicey unless the players are either all really good friends, or unless one of them is willing to hang back. That's part of the secret to making music that people remember, getting to a point where people are actually able to communicate and get on the same page about what works best for the song. Short of that... it's a lot of overlap and noise to be sure.

PJamGrunge10

All Those Yesterdays wrote:

Really? So you don't like Deep Purple? Don't get me wrong there is always a situation where it doesn't fit. But that organ in Save You is a cool fit.

To be honest I'm not all that familiar with them... when I mean rock songs I'm referring to songs that are mostly guitar driven such as Even Flow. Now, a band like Coldplay is also considered rock but they use pianos/keyboards in almost every song and it fits, but I wouldn't say they have any real 'rock' songs... The keyboards just tend to make everything sound poppy to me.

StuffnJunk

jn

All Those Yesterdays

PJamGrunge10 wrote:

To be honest I'm not all that familiar with them... when I mean rock songs I'm referring to songs that are mostly guitar driven such as Even Flow. Now, a band like Coldplay is also considered rock but they use pianos/keyboards in almost every song and it fits, but I wouldn't say they have any real 'rock' songs... The keyboards just tend to make everything sound poppy to me.

No problem bud. Might I suggest you take step back and give Deep Purple a listen. Ritchie Blackmore and the gang have something to let you experience. Check out Machine Head. It's worth at least one listen :-)

ianvomsaal

Maybe think of it this way - is the overall sound better or worse with the keyboard - you need to record the practice and take listen - everything sounds different that way - what you thought sounded great may actually sound awful, or vise versa. Sometimes you think the overall tune sounded great until you go back and take a listen (and it's not) - or you think you played a killer solo - then you listen back and wonder who stole your guitar (is that me . . . man that totally sucks). All band members need to be able to hear what you sound like "as a band", and then have an open critique as to what works and what doesn't. Once you figure out if it adds or subtracts to the bands sound as a whole, then you'll need to figure out if you want to split the gig $$$ with yet another player, especially if they're not making the band sound better (just adding to the overall SPL's) - and if you're asked to play on a cramped stage - is it worth it. The best way to tell is to find out what everyone thinks - If you're not enjoying it, it deserves a discussion.

lucylespian

IDgotI wrote:

Boom is a pretty amazing addition to the band as far as I'm concerned, but that's because he totally knows his place. Yes he gets his chance to shine in "Crazy Mary"...but appart from that he's pretty much playing pads, chords that just provide a bed for Stone and Mike and Jeff to jump up and down on. Stuffn, sounds like you're in a band that's just taking on players for the sake of it. That can lead to really clunky results for sure. I once read a really cool interview with either Andy Summers or Stuart Copland of the Police. Whichever one of them it was said that they almost thought of silence as a fourth member in the band. They wanted there to be be space, and silence between the notes for the rhythms to bounce off of. Again, I think Boom works for Pearl Jam because they are a disciplined band that knows when to back off and be sparse... but from my personal experience, as soon as you expand beyond power trio it gets really *really* dicey unless the players are either all really good friends, or unless one of them is willing to hang back. That's part of the secret to making music that people remember, getting to a point where people are actually able to communicate and get on the same page about what works best for the song. Short of that... it's a lot of overlap and noise to be sure.

I've really been trying to keep this in mind now I'm in a band.
It's god advice I've read a lot, and I'm determined to not ignore it.