Do Mike and Stone sound weak?

pjfan020 · February 2006

Now I haven't heard too much of the 2005 bootlegs, but from what i've heard the guitars sound kind of thin. I heard a version of "blood" from Vancouver and it sounded really weak. Does anyone think that Mike and Stone aren't using enough distortion? Your thoughts please.

Scubascott · February 2006

The north american bootlegs seem to sound weaker than the south american ones. It sounds like its the way they were mixed, rather than the way they were played. Mike was mixed way too low in the London bootleg I have. I had to fade the left channel up a bit to hear him properly.

itsevolutionbaby · February 2006

Scubascott wrote:

The north american bootlegs seem to sound weaker than the south american ones. It sounds like its the way they were mixed, rather than the way they were played. Mike was mixed way too low in the London bootleg I have. I had to fade the left channel up a bit to hear him properly.

unfortunately that is how it sounded at the show too. mike's sound for the 3 Canadian shows I went to was probably the worst I have ever heard. It was too clean on most songs for my taste. Not that I want him to run everything through a big muff, but it was really really clean. I hope they can get back to the Yield sound live for the next set of dates..

Oh, Jimmy · February 2006

I liked their sound on the 2000 tour. Tons of humbucker equipped guitars. I though their sound was better too. When I seen them in 03 their wasnt meaty enough on some songs. On the VFC tour they seemed to mix it up fairly good with Mike's Les Paul Jr gettin some serious pt.

Dirty_Frank · February 2006

I have a 1998 DVD where they're playing with less distortion than before and it's heavy as hell still. It rocks serious ass.

They don't need to go out and start running JCM800s or anything, but a little more overdrive and crunch never hurt anyone.

Brisk. · February 2006

ahhh, i know nothing about guitars, no difference here, sounded the same !!! which is still amazing!

surferdude · February 2006

Dirty_Frank wrote:

I have a 1998 DVD where they're playing with less distortion than before and it's heavy as hell still. It rocks serious ass.

They don't need to go out and start running JCM800s or anything, but a little more overdrive and crunch never hurt anyone.

I find that every guitarist pretty much strives for a cleaner tone as they get older. One of the reasons that rock is for the young. That and they lose the swagger that allows them to record songs like "Say Hello To Heaven", a song as an excuse for extended guitar soloing. Bon Scott put it best "Hey mama, look at me". Every band seems to lose this attitude after a while.

Clapton has managed to make himself almost unlistenable. At least Page didn't lose it until In Through The Out Door.

DriftingByTheStorm · February 2006

surferdude wrote:

I find that every guitarist pretty much strives for a cleaner tone as they get older. One of the reasons that rock is for the young. That and they lose the swagger that allows them to record songs like "Say Hello To Heaven", a song as an excuse for extended guitar soloing. Bon Scott put it best "Hey mama, look at me". Every band seems to lose this attitude after a while.

Clapton has managed to make himself almost unlistenable. At least Page didn't lose it until In Through The Out Door.

That's pretty damning.

I'm going to try and reserve my judgement (i do agree that their tone has become thinner, but nothing that made me want to stop listening) until the new album comes out ...

... hopefully, given that it is supposed to be their hardest record in years, this means that the tones they are choosing are thick and beefy.

... if that's the case, then here is hoping that this sound carries over in to their shows ... i know mike seems to be constantly changing his pedal board, and here's to wishing that he throws in some extra thick distortion again ...

... i don't want it to be 1992 again, but that huge marshall-esqe vibe they had going on with the all out stadium reverb was just great ...

... when they busted out Why Go in DC for '03 I almost cried at how under-distorted it was. :(

surferdude · February 2006

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

That's pretty damning.

I'm going to try and reserve my judgement (i do agree that their tone has become thinner, but nothing that made me want to stop listening) until the new album comes out ...

... hopefully, given that it is supposed to be their hardest record in years, this means that the tones they are choosing are thick and beefy.

... if that's the case, then here is hoping that this sound carries over in to their shows ... i know mike seems to be constantly changing his pedal board, and here's to wishing that he throws in some extra thick distortion again ...

... i don't want it to be 1992 again, but that huge marshall-esqe vibe they had going on with the all out stadium reverb was just great ...

... when they busted out Why Go in DC for '03 I almost cried at how under-distorted it was. :(

It was a sweeping inditement. There are some guitarists who don't go cleaner as they age, but not many.

But I still don't know a single guitarist who has that same swagger they had when they were younger.

I still stand by what I said about Clapton. Have you heard his new album? To think there once was graffitti citing Clapton is God. I'd hate to think what the current graffitti about Clapton would say.

dont_go_on_me · February 2006

Stone's tone is much beefier now than it was in 03 or 04. Stone sounds great.

As much as i hate to admit it, Mike's tone has gotten weaker when he plays his Strat. His LP still sounds pretty damn good (it's still a tad weaker though), but his strat sounds too damn thin for some of the songs when it shouldn't be so weak (Half Full, Even Flow). Then again, I do prefer the cleaner tone in some of the other songs so...

Pacomc79 · February 2006

The amp choices have left a lot to be desired lately.

I think they need to go back to the JMP's and Savages, and Matchless....

Let's get some big bottle loud balls to the wall tone again. How about a boost pedal with that strat. Some balls.

itsevolutionbaby · February 2006

Pacomc79 wrote:

The amp choices have left a lot to be desired lately.

I think they need to go back to the JMP's and Savages, and Matchless....

Let's get some big bottle loud balls to the tone again. How about a boost pedal with that strat. Some balls.

I totally agree. Mike's solos were not nearly as powerful in 05. The clean tone is great for some songs, but some songs really need that beef. I wonder if they hear what we hear. It might sound great in front of the cabinets, and in their monitors. Stone's sound was good, but moreso when he was playing a LP. I find that at least one needs to be playing humbuckers if the other is playing a strat. Especially since Ed has switched to the fender amps, and the telecaster. just my 2c.

JofZ · February 2006

I don't know that I agree with some of this. At the HOB show they sounded fantastic. Mike's tone was full and he had no problem cutting through the band on solos. Stone's tone has changed over the years, but it is still Stone. I think Stone would sound like Stone with a 5 dollar guitar, and I doubt it matters what amp he uses either.
Jeff sounds better now then he has in years IMO.
The band is different now, could that be what you are hearing?

The mixing on the boots should not be used to judge their tone. Some of them sound pathetic and some sound amazing, consistancy is one tough job when you release every live show. Next time you see them live pay close attention and I am sure you wont be dissapointed.

Pacomc79 · February 2006

JofZ wrote:

I don't know that I agree with some of this. At the HOB show they sounded fantastic. Mike's tone was full and he had no problem cutting through the band on solos. Stone's tone has changed over the years, but it is still Stone. I think Stone would sound like Stone with a 5 dollar guitar, and I doubt it matters what amp he uses either.
Jeff sounds better now then he has in years IMO.
The band is different now, could that be what you are hearing?

The mixing on the boots should not be used to judge their tone. Some of them sound pathetic and some sound amazing, consistancy is one tough job when you release every live show. Next time you see them live pay close attention and I am sure you wont be dissapointed.

I wonder who is doing the mix lately and I wonder why it's been so inconsistant.

I'd still like to see mike go with some kind of huge plexi. (Germino maybe) Damn the torpedos. Or hell, I'd love it if he came out with some tweed twins.

My favorite stone sound came from the Blitz 50.

enharmonic · February 2006

When you're first starting out, it's a lot of fun to turn up and play with mad distortion. Distortion covers up the suck. As you get older, more experienced, technically better...the chord voicings you start going after might not sound as good with uber gain, or worse, might sound like crap without dialing back a bit.

I know cats who stayed heavy as all get out, and cats who have pulled it back quite a bit. They all kick my ass, so I don't judge...lol.

I play a Wizard Modern Classic. I can bury you with gain if I want to. Most of the time, I play right at the edge of breakup though, because that's where interesting things happen. That's where you are the performance, and not your amp. Listen to the anger in Pete Townsend's guitar, or the rudeness of Jimmy Page. Those guys knew what was up, and that's why 40 years on, we're still hearing their stuff up against the latest greatest uber distorted bullshit.

surferdude · February 2006

JofZ wrote:

I don't know that I agree with some of this. At the HOB show they sounded fantastic. Mike's tone was full and he had no problem cutting through the band on solos. Stone's tone has changed over the years, but it is still Stone. I think Stone would sound like Stone with a 5 dollar guitar, and I doubt it matters what amp he uses either.
Jeff sounds better now then he has in years IMO.
The band is different now, could that be what you are hearing?

The mixing on the boots should not be used to judge their tone. Some of them sound pathetic and some sound amazing, consistancy is one tough job when you release every live show. Next time you see them live pay close attention and I am sure you wont be dissapointed.

Mike was not loud enough in Ottawa during some of his solos. He was on fire and as a fan you should have to strain to hear it. FOH can easily add a couple of decibels at the required time.

surferdude · February 2006

enharmonic wrote:

Listen to the anger in Pete Townsend's guitar, or the rudeness of Jimmy Page. Those guys knew what was up, and that's why 40 years on, we're still hearing their stuff up against the latest greatest uber distorted bullshit.

Agreed. I guess it's not so much about the distortion level but about the amount you dial it back as you get older. Luckily for us Pete and Jimmy haven't really dialed it back much.

Okay, well I completely hate The Who's period when Pete pretty much refused to play electric guitar. I saw them twice that tour and it just about killed me to see a band I love so much pretty much made a mockery of.

Pacomc79 · February 2006

enharmonic wrote:

When you're first starting out, it's a lot of fun to turn up and play with mad distortion. Distortion covers up the suck. As you get older, more experienced, technically better...the chord voicings you start going after might not sound as good with uber gain, or worse, might sound like crap without dialing back a bit.

I know cats who stayed heavy as all get out, and cats who have pulled it back quite a bit. They all kick my ass, so I don't judge...lol.

I play a Wizard Modern Classic. I can bury you with gain if I want to. Most of the time, I play right at the edge of breakup though, because that's where interesting things happen. That's where you are the performance, and not your amp. Listen to the anger in Pete Townsend's guitar, or the rudeness of Jimmy Page. Those guys knew what was up, and that's why 40 years on, we're still hearing their stuff up against the latest greatest uber distorted bullshit.

wow that's very dead on. The feeling and expression can't be heard in uber distorted stuff. Townsend hammered his guitar. The acoustic stuff is just as powerful as any of the electric riffs.

DriftingByTheStorm · February 2006

surferdude wrote:

Mike was not loud enough in Ottawa during some of his solos. He was on fire and as a fan you should have to strain to hear it. FOH can easily add a couple of decibels at the required time.

i totally agree and am not sure what the deal is on this issue.
The only recent show I have seen (and i'm talking all the way back to 2003 leg 1) where I felt Mike was even close to at the right volume for solos was in Halifax ...

I mean, i understand the solo should still be "in the mix" ... but c'mon ... it's a fucking SOLO ... if stone is gonna play some rythm during mikes free time in evenflow ... for fucks sake you should be able to hear mikey play over the rythm !!!

This is definately a sound board problem, and I don't get it ... I know it sounds different depending on where you are ... but for a few shows I have been AGAINST MIKES SPEAKERS and i still can't hear the bastard.

:( :( :(

Oh, Jimmy · February 2006

surferdude wrote:

Agreed. I guess it's not so much about the distortion level but about the amount you dial it back as you get older. Luckily for us Pete and Jimmy haven't really dialed it back much.

Okay, well I completely hate The Who's period when Pete pretty much refused to play electric guitar. I saw them twice that tour and it just about killed me to see a band I love so much pretty much made a mockery of.

From the more recent tours that Page has been on, it seems like he has added more gain. The older stuff used to be dialed in cleaner than what alotta people think.

surferdude · February 2006

Oh, Jimmy wrote:

From the more recent tours that Page has been on, it seems like he has added more gain. The older stuff used to be dialed in cleaner than what alotta people think.

You're right. Page in the studio was surprisingly clean and relied on guitar layering to achieve his sound. But live he has always seemed to rely on added distortion to muscle his way through the heavily layered parts, i.e Sick Again.

Do Mike and Stone sound weak?

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