just orderd this stack...

Originally posted by MissYouAllDay
this looks like such a sweet deal. What is a half stack? And why is this combo so cheap. I was considering a fender cyber head (over 1 grand!!!) with some sort of cab. Are cabs really cheap? Is a whole stack 8 speakers? IS that why 4 is called half stack? What do marshall heads sound like? Could they create a PJ like tone? Hmmm do people use them with telecasters often?

I'm bored, so I'll take a crack at this...

A full stack, like Paco said, was developed in the mid- to late-1960's. At the time, large acts (Jimi Hendrix experience, The Who, etc.) were playing concerts where there wasn't much of a PA system. So the only thing they ran into the PA was the vocals and some drums. So the guitar amps had to be big enough to cover a theater, arena, or stadium with thousands of people. So they built the first 100-watt heads and ran those amps into 2 cabinets, each with 4 12-inch speakers (total of 8 speakers). With the two cabinets and the amp head stacked up, it's a pretty tall amp, and that makes it a full stack. They would put up like three, four, five stacks... how ever many were needed. Then, in smaller venues, they could cut the number of amps and speakers to fit the needs.

Eventually, the PA systems grew to the point where they could put a microphone in front of the amp's speakers, and then use the sound from the mic in the PA. So they cut down the size of the stack needed. Some guitar players still use huge rows of full-stacks, either to look cool or because they are already deaf. But a lot of guitar players cut down to just one amp and one 4x12" cabinet (total of 4 speakers). Since it's only half as tall, it's a half-stack. A lot of players today get by with much smaller stage arrangements... Neil Young uses 22-watt Fender Deluxe Reverbs. The Edge uses two 30-watt Vox AC30's. Ani DiFranco uses just a 15-watt Fender Blues Junior with one 12" speaker for her electric guitar's tone, and she plays up to 30,000-seat venues!

The difficulty for smaller groups just starting out, is that many venues we play don't have big enough PA's to handle vocals, drums, guitars, and bass. So we still need guitar and bass amps with enough volume on their own. At least until we play places with good-enough PA systems. Also, in practices, nobody mics up guitar amps or bass amps, so we need guitar and bass amps that are loud enough to be heard in a small area with very loud drums.

Like low_light already mentioned, this amp is cheap mostly because A) it's solid-state, not the more expensive all-tube design; and it's on Christmas special.

Marshall all-tube heads are great amps that have been characterized as the powerful British rock/metal sound. If you ever hear an amp described as having a "British" sound, they are indicating Marshall (and their brothers, HiWatt and Orange amps). Led Zeppelin, some of The Who, Jimi Hendrix, Black Sabbath, Van Halen, AC/DC... all of these bands have a Marshall-sounding guitar tone. Pete Townshend switched to HiWatt, Tony Iommi uses Laney, and Eddie Van Halen switched to the Peavey 5150, but the classic sounds are all just bare-bones Marshall.

I know that both Mike and Stone used a lot of Marshall amps back in the day. Mike also used a vintage Fender Bassman combo with 4 10-inch speakers for a lot of his early tone. Stone has used so many different kinds of amps over the years, it would take months to compile his history. All three guitar players use nothing but Marshall cabinets on the road, although I haven't seen a Marshall amp at a PJ show in years. The short answer to your question, though, is that you can get good early-PJ tone from an all-tube Marshall, but you probably won't get post-Vitalogy tone with Marshall amps.

As far as using a Tele into a Marshall... you of course CAN, with no problems. It has it's own sound, very different than a Strat or a Les Paul into a Marshall. Bruce Springsteen is a Tele-Marshall user... that's something you'll have to find out for yourself, though, whether or not you like the sound. It's a good sound, but not very versatile.

Now, for the Cyber amp... I've heard similar things about the reliability issue for the Fenders (and the Johnsons and the Behringers). Line 6 is really the way to go for digital modeling amps. I personally don't like amp modeling (I think you should get the real thing, and no one can deny that the real thing sounds better) but amp modelers can give you many different amp sounds in one box. The alternative is get a Marshall, a Fender, a Mesa-Boogie, a Vox, and an Orange, all lined up... very expensive, very space-consuming, and difficult to wire up. So, if you want the sound of two or more amps, and you have a limited budget, and limited space, a Line 6 is the way to go. Just avoid the Spyders... they seem to have a bad reputation. The DuoVerb that was mentioned earlier seems like a good deal, and it's currently on clearance (most likely to make way for a second generation version). But if you want to get one good sound, get the real thing and stick with it. A Bassman with a TS-9 would fulfill all my needs (a great clean, and a great overdrive). So that's the choice you have to make.

Now that I have finished my novel... JUST PLAY WHAT SOUNDS GOOD TO YOU! And remember, good gear is no excuse for bad playing.

*whew* I need a drink...

Originally posted by MissYouAllDay
good gear is tottally an excuse for bad playing. It's so shiny and new!!!

The punk motto is, "Distortion shall forgive all sins."

The pop motto is, "Reverb shall forgive all sins."

My motto: "Don't sin."

But I hear what you're saying... I myself am guilty of having gear worth more than my playing...

So, you think I nailed the response? I gotta practice for some essay tests coming up...

There is definitely a good reason for Pete to be deaf. Me, I use Hear-O's whenever I'm at a concert: watching, working or playing. 32 dB isn't always enough attenuation, either... and I'm 23! If it's too loud, you're too old... yeah, fuck that...

When I win the lottery and build my dream studio, I will have some beautiful backline gear... 50's and 60's Fender tweeds, blondes, and blackfaces... Marshall plexi's and brown's... 60's Vox... HiWatt, Orange, Mesa Boogie, Ampeg... Too many toys! That's why I suggest getting a single amp that you love, get a couple FX to use with it, and keep it simple. Distortion, delay/verb, and a mod (phase, wah, flange, envelope, tremelo, etc). Or, you can get a Line 6... more like Line 666...

Originally posted by Pacomc79
...since I still have no woman I may indeed sleep with my Sunburst strat once I decide which one to get.

I've slept with my Tele on a few lonely, cold nights... *sigh*

When I start bringing my Tubescreamer to "tea parties," then I might need to re-evaluate...

Originally posted by low_light
speaking of which. MikeM- so the "custom voice" speakers are cheap in the cab? i figured the cab was okay and it was the head that was the cheap thing. but i will replace the head and the speakers if i need to along the line anyway. as for now. im possitive it will be good.

I think that you're right, the head is the weaker link in that combo. But (if you didn't know already) I am the resident speaker geek, and my IMPRESSION is that the speakers aren't standard Celestions, but maybe an econo version. They may actually be speakers specially designed for that amp, though. Either way, I think the speakers are fine and will be fine when you replace the amp head. But if I had an all-tube Marshall head, I'd want to play them through some Celestion Vintage 30's or Greenbacks.

I can almost cover a single wall in my apartment right now with speakers and combo amps... I have a 6x10" cabinet for my bass, two 4x10" cabinets for guitar, a Marshall combo with a single 12", a Vibro Champ with an 8", a Pignose with a 6", and I have 4 10" speakers that I will be building cabinets for over Christmas break. I really am a speaker junkie...

Originally posted by low_light
very cool i will keep that in mind. im sure i will be PMing you when i decide to replace them someday. thanks, MC.


im off to bed.

-dm

Greenbacks or Vintage 30's... that's all you need for Marshall tone...

Sweet dreams, low.

Originally posted by who's_pearljam?

Originally posted by mccreadyisgod
So, you think I nailed the response? I gotta practice for some essay tests coming up...

There is definitely a good reason for Pete to be deaf. Me, I use Hear-O's whenever I'm at a concert: watching, working or playing. 32 dB isn't always enough attenuation, either... and I'm 23! If it's too loud, you're too old... yeah, fuck that...

Your term paper was very good.

There were only PA systems for the vocals and drums back then.
More often than not, the sound was horrible if you were an afficianado of sound. What was incredible was the pure power and emotion and frenzy of energy put out by the bands, coupled with the intensity of the audience.

There was nothing I've ever seen in any concert more intense and wonderous and emotional than seeing Jimi Hendrix, but when you hear the live albums, to me, it's cold compared to the actual event. You don't get the total heart thumping , hair standing , jaw dropping feel.
The recordings were off old equipment, remastered sometimes, but never truly match the sound in the room that night.

I saw hendrix and cream etc, and really, as much as guitarists want to attain that tone, you have to:
1. Get a bunch of marshall stacks turned to 10
2 Get any overdrive pedal, on 10
3 play with more reckless abandon and viruosity and charismatic energy than you ever thought possible.
4 WEAR earplugs, like MIG says.

I know a lot of hard of hearing musicians! I don't know HOW I escaped that!

A good example of this is Hendrix at Woodstock. He appologises after every song and it was a phenominal performance but people couldn't hear the vocals very well at the show. We've come a long way on PA's baby.

A huge part of the tone that people lust for is found in an over driven amplifier. Combine it with a perfect fuzz face and a shitload of talent you have hendrix. Marshall Blues breaker (JTM 45 in a combo version) add a 59 les paul and a sola sound tone bender. Clapton, Cream era (woman) tone

Originally posted by who's_pearljam?
You have to have the pick attack and confidence in the hands to get there, too. Clapton used that stuff for Bluesbreakers. On stage later for cream, he had all kinds of guitars, and Marshall stacks. On stage, he would change guitars, but in reality you could barely tell the difference in sound.

He backed off on a wah pedal a lot for that tone, too. Zappa, also.

My favorite guitarist ever is Buddy Guy.
Hendrix and Clapton got from him.

He just plays a Strat and a bunch of Fender bassmans for the most part. He's on tour now, and is a great show. My favorite tone.

yeah I love that tone too.

I Clapton used some Selmers for a while too I think and Supro's among others. Vox's etc.

That half cocked wah sound is cool. Buddy Guy is a badass.

I love the strat or LP espescially ES-335 for that matter into the mid 60's Blackface Fender Super Reverbs. Damn I love blues. I wish I could hang with BB King for one day. The old bassman tone is so cool and I love the look of laquered tweed. One day perhaps I'll have a rig with a bassman on one side and a Super Reverb on the other.

Originally posted by Pacomc79
Marshall Blues breaker (JTM 45 in a combo version) add a 59 les paul and a sola sound tone bender. Clapton, Cream era (woman) tone

Some people debate whether the Blues Breakers that Clapton played on were actually the early 4 x 10" combo, not the later 2 x 12" combo (they looked exactly the same from the front). I like to think it was the 4 x 10"...