just orderd this stack...
low_light
Posts: 251
for the money it works out nicely. pretty much the same setup i had with my combo.. but my combo is crapping the fucking bed. so i figure ill get this and later add a tube head to the cab.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=031202111038012075000192861842/g=guitar/search/detail/base_pid/482807/
-dm
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=031202111038012075000192861842/g=guitar/search/detail/base_pid/482807/
-dm
www.myspace.com/eotoband
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The Sovtek Mig 50's would be a good pair with that cab. at $250 it's not to expensive either used. Theres always the Yamaha/Soldano T50-100 too.
But you'll probably go for the Marshall DSL or TSL.
congrats on the new rig. I've always wanted a half stack.
ill let you know by next week how the cab sounds.
-low
Fill me in guys.
I miss you already, I miss you all day
just don't buy a cyber head. they suck.
Anyone can answer my other questions?
I miss you already, I miss you all day
go to http://www.marshallamps.com and look up history. The Stack half/stack was created by Jim Marshall out of need by one of his customers Pete Townsend. After 8x12's were proven difficult to move and haul around it was cut in half and the halfstack was born. 4x12
If I were you I'd look for used Marshall DSL JCM 800 900 or 2000's
and used 1960A (X) cabs
maybe a head and a 2x10 or 2x12. but never a 4x12. i don't play what i can't lift.
The best deal on the best amp you can get for these sounds right now is the Line 6 Duoverb a 2x12 combo on sale for $499 at http://www.musiciansfriend.com
I worry about the reliability of the Cyberdeluxe knowing Fenders quality control issues with the Dynatouch series. Digitech's Johnson series the Millieniums were nightmares. Breath on it wrong. and it's screwed. Cool sounds though
yeah, i refer only to the fenders.
as far as the playing what i can lift theory... hehe im 6'5 260 lbs.. i better be able to move it. and if i cant, well thats what my friends are for that go to the shows.. muahhaahahaha
in all seriousness though, it will fill out the sound a lot better. that fucking KORG triton sucks all the sound up around it. i need a little more punch to make the guitars sound better at shows.
i've always wanted a half stack so im gonna just go for it. and the price was right
-lowy
oh yeah. I've played with the cyberdeluxes only to really decide I want only one tone done exceptionally well rather than 152 tones done half assed and not even close but to each his own.
I'd rather have an original deluxe reverb.
-low
i don't think it would have the power you need anyway. you'd have to mic it.
you're doing well with what you are getting anyway low. The DR is only 22 watts. Too small for your band. Marshall half stacks are like Fender American Standards or Les Paul Standards. Just pure unadulterated Rock and Roll. You can't go wrong with them. You'll have plenty of money later on to upgrade and get what you really want. Just look at Stone and Mike. They change virtually every tour now. What you have is a great amp that suits your needs. It will make you happy. More speakers give you more sound I think you'll like it even more than the combo.
I'm still miffed that the combo crapped the bed. the left speaker just barely even puts out a signal and the other side is following suit. and I dont abuse the amp or overdrive the thing at all. who knows. seems everything is made to break down and be repaired too quickly.
-low
It's made by people in South Korea who may not even be able to read the instructions. Cut them a little slack.
In todays world if you want something built right....you have to do it yourself or pay a lot of money for it.
My amp is 18 watts (tube) and I have played some pretty big places with it... I never have to turn up past 12 o'clock (5)
When I had a Hiwatt Custom 50... I played a grandstand outdoors with no mic... that was with 412s, master volume cranked, and input volume on about three with two overdrives... anyways, my point is you don't really need much power for a band or playing out.
The Hiwatt couldn't get turned up very high at all in most clubs, or at practice... at least not without some serious ear plugs around.
Just my $.02.
yeah you are right. 22 watts is really more than enough. Hell my amp is 15 watts and it's really more than enough but sometimes I wish I had more headroom.
But for volume "needs" no one posting on here needs a 100 watt amp
I agree on the headroom issue.
thats a great idea on the plugging the combo into the cab. i'll give that a shot thanks.
as for not needing 100watts... again, im going to get a tube head eventually. and i agree tube amps rock over solid state.
just a $$ issue in an emergency.
-low
As for the merits of the half-stack itself, I think your plan is pretty good. Get the half-stack now, then replace the head when you get some more money. There are a number of great heads out there... vintage Fender Bassman, Marshall JCM's, Orange heads (pricey), HiWatt, Sovtek, etc. And all would work well with your cabinet.
I am kinda worried about the speakers in the cab... it says they are Marshall/Celestions, which I interpret as being fairly cheap special Celestions for Marshall's econo line. You can always get a quartet of good Celestions, like Greenbacks, to re-load the cabinet with. But again, later, when you have money... I'm sure they'll be quite alright for a long time.
I'm bored, so I'll take a crack at this...
A full stack, like Paco said, was developed in the mid- to late-1960's. At the time, large acts (Jimi Hendrix experience, The Who, etc.) were playing concerts where there wasn't much of a PA system. So the only thing they ran into the PA was the vocals and some drums. So the guitar amps had to be big enough to cover a theater, arena, or stadium with thousands of people. So they built the first 100-watt heads and ran those amps into 2 cabinets, each with 4 12-inch speakers (total of 8 speakers). With the two cabinets and the amp head stacked up, it's a pretty tall amp, and that makes it a full stack. They would put up like three, four, five stacks... how ever many were needed. Then, in smaller venues, they could cut the number of amps and speakers to fit the needs.
Eventually, the PA systems grew to the point where they could put a microphone in front of the amp's speakers, and then use the sound from the mic in the PA. So they cut down the size of the stack needed. Some guitar players still use huge rows of full-stacks, either to look cool or because they are already deaf. But a lot of guitar players cut down to just one amp and one 4x12" cabinet (total of 4 speakers). Since it's only half as tall, it's a half-stack. A lot of players today get by with much smaller stage arrangements... Neil Young uses 22-watt Fender Deluxe Reverbs. The Edge uses two 30-watt Vox AC30's. Ani DiFranco uses just a 15-watt Fender Blues Junior with one 12" speaker for her electric guitar's tone, and she plays up to 30,000-seat venues!
The difficulty for smaller groups just starting out, is that many venues we play don't have big enough PA's to handle vocals, drums, guitars, and bass. So we still need guitar and bass amps with enough volume on their own. At least until we play places with good-enough PA systems. Also, in practices, nobody mics up guitar amps or bass amps, so we need guitar and bass amps that are loud enough to be heard in a small area with very loud drums.
Like low_light already mentioned, this amp is cheap mostly because A) it's solid-state, not the more expensive all-tube design; and
Marshall all-tube heads are great amps that have been characterized as the powerful British rock/metal sound. If you ever hear an amp described as having a "British" sound, they are indicating Marshall (and their brothers, HiWatt and Orange amps). Led Zeppelin, some of The Who, Jimi Hendrix, Black Sabbath, Van Halen, AC/DC... all of these bands have a Marshall-sounding guitar tone. Pete Townshend switched to HiWatt, Tony Iommi uses Laney, and Eddie Van Halen switched to the Peavey 5150, but the classic sounds are all just bare-bones Marshall.
I know that both Mike and Stone used a lot of Marshall amps back in the day. Mike also used a vintage Fender Bassman combo with 4 10-inch speakers for a lot of his early tone. Stone has used so many different kinds of amps over the years, it would take months to compile his history. All three guitar players use nothing but Marshall cabinets on the road, although I haven't seen a Marshall amp at a PJ show in years. The short answer to your question, though, is that you can get good early-PJ tone from an all-tube Marshall, but you probably won't get post-Vitalogy tone with Marshall amps.
As far as using a Tele into a Marshall... you of course CAN, with no problems. It has it's own sound, very different than a Strat or a Les Paul into a Marshall. Bruce Springsteen is a Tele-Marshall user... that's something you'll have to find out for yourself, though, whether or not you like the sound. It's a good sound, but not very versatile.
Now, for the Cyber amp... I've heard similar things about the reliability issue for the Fenders (and the Johnsons and the Behringers). Line 6 is really the way to go for digital modeling amps. I personally don't like amp modeling (I think you should get the real thing, and no one can deny that the real thing sounds better) but amp modelers can give you many different amp sounds in one box. The alternative is get a Marshall, a Fender, a Mesa-Boogie, a Vox, and an Orange, all lined up... very expensive, very space-consuming, and difficult to wire up. So, if you want the sound of two or more amps, and you have a limited budget, and limited space, a Line 6 is the way to go. Just avoid the Spyders... they seem to have a bad reputation. The DuoVerb that was mentioned earlier seems like a good deal, and it's currently on clearance (most likely to make way for a second generation version). But if you want to get one good sound, get the real thing and stick with it. A Bassman with a TS-9 would fulfill all my needs (a great clean, and a great overdrive). So that's the choice you have to make.
Now that I have finished my novel... JUST PLAY WHAT SOUNDS GOOD TO YOU! And remember, good gear is no excuse for bad playing.
*whew* I need a drink...
I miss you already, I miss you all day
The punk motto is, "Distortion shall forgive all sins."
The pop motto is, "Reverb shall forgive all sins."
My motto: "Don't sin."
But I hear what you're saying... I myself am guilty of having gear worth more than my playing...
Geez I could spend virtual money all day. One of the best most versatile amps I've ever heard was a Diezel VH-4. all $4,600 worth. but it was basically 4 seperate mint vintage amps in one semi ugly box but look who's talking my amp is dressed in orange tolex.
some of the coolest old gear I've ever seen is in Jacques stash. http://www.ts808.com
He's got a picture of some of PT's old HIWATT 300 watt (all tube) (Yes MULLARDS) slave amps. 4 of them stacked on top of each other + his 50 watt master.
Ok doing the math and realizing tube amps max rating is before distortion at .5 on the volume knob meaning a 100 watt amp at 10 is really pushing around 190 watts according to the marshall amps website let's see Ol Pete had around 1500-2000 watts up there on stage at any given time going into who knows how many speaker cabinets. Each 4x12 having 48" of speaker area.
Translation: That's a hell of a lot of displaced air kids and ear drums for that matter.
There is definitely a good reason for Pete to be deaf. Me, I use Hear-O's whenever I'm at a concert: watching, working or playing. 32 dB isn't always enough attenuation, either... and I'm 23! If it's too loud, you're too old... yeah, fuck that...
When I win the lottery and build my dream studio, I will have some beautiful backline gear... 50's and 60's Fender tweeds, blondes, and blackfaces... Marshall plexi's and brown's... 60's Vox... HiWatt, Orange, Mesa Boogie, Ampeg... Too many toys! That's why I suggest getting a single amp that you love, get a couple FX to use with it, and keep it simple. Distortion, delay/verb, and a mod (phase, wah, flange, envelope, tremelo, etc). Or, you can get a Line 6... more like Line 666...
It really is an addiction. I am no where near the player to know this much about gear, It's just an obsession. I love reading learning playing finding out what does what and how to make things sound like something good. It's all individual really as to what you want to do. I doubt I'll ever be done though since I still have no woman I may indeed sleep with my Sunburst strat once I decide which one to get.
I've slept with my Tele on a few lonely, cold nights... *sigh*
When I start bringing my Tubescreamer to "tea parties," then I might need to re-evaluate...
yeah well, good gear inspires me to play better and clearer. and i dont play sloppy. if anything the past few months ive been finding ways to tighten up my sound. if anything truly sounded sloppy ive done, its due to a bad distortion sound which i fixed by getting the maxon tube screamer.. now its tighter.
kinda goes for this cab im buying. its just a purchase to improve on later in the end.
speaking of which. MikeM- so the "custom voice" speakers are cheap in the cab? i figured the cab was okay and it was the head that was the cheap thing. but i will replace the head and the speakers if i need to along the line anyway. as for now. im possitive it will be good.
-low