Capitalism, The Fed and Economic Policy

mrussel1 · November 17

Lerxst1992 said:

Nah, cutting interest rates to a record low in 2021, reducing aggregate mortgage payments by $26b had nothing to do with the problem.

Jiggs, they’ll just never see a problem with too much govt intervention.

So wait, you think federal reserve monetary policy is "too much gov't intervention"?

mrussel1 · November 17

Lerxst1992 said:

Nearly 60% of all mortgages today are locked in at below 4%. No one’s giving those rates up. The govt intervened and we have a decade or two of less housing inventory. At least y’all can blame 45 for that.

maybe just maybe, there will be one light bulb to go off here.

I didn't realize monetary policy just started a decade or two ago.

Second, no one is talking about not enough homes for sale. We are talking about not enough supply, which is focused on the building side. If no one is selling their homes because their rates are low and they don't want to lose it, then are you arguing for higher interest rates? Because I think you and your new-found stable genius president appear to be disconnected on that issue.

mickeyrat · November 17

Lerxst1992 said:

Nah, cutting interest rates to a record low in 2021, reducing aggregate mortgage payments by $26b had nothing to do with the problem.

Jiggs, they’ll just never see a problem with too much govt intervention.

I'm sorry , what? Jiggs?

tempo_n_groove · November 18

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.
Unfettered capitalism and unrestrained wealth flowing to the top 10%. That’s what happened.

https://www.cnn.com/

It’s obviously the fault of socialists

To be fair, JD Vance said it was the fault of illegal immigrants. Yes, they are taking away your 300k homes thanks to their high paying roofing jobs.

“A lot of young people are saying housing is way too expensive,” the vice president said. “Why is that? Because we flooded the country with 30 million illegal immigrants who were taking houses that ought, by right, go to American citizens.”

This is an angle I thought about and it does hold some merit.

If section 8 housing or low income housing is being used to help the migrants/etc then sure.

In regality it's places like Fairfield, AirBNB and Vrbo that have placed more damage on the housing market than the migrants have.

How would section 8 housing used for migrants affect the housing supply and prices? Plus Vance didn't make some macro argument of downstream effects. He said "..who were taking houses that ought, by right, go to American citizens".

The actual effect is that we are taking away laborers needed to build.

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.
And forgetting or dismissing the role of private equity’s impact on the market.

Forgot to read the bottom sentence. Def not forgotten but my main point.

"In reality it's places like Fairfield, AirBNB and Vrbo that have placed more damage on the housing market than the migrants have."

tempo_n_groove · November 18

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.
Unfettered capitalism and unrestrained wealth flowing to the top 10%. That’s what happened.

https://www.cnn.com/

It’s obviously the fault of socialists

To be fair, JD Vance said it was the fault of illegal immigrants. Yes, they are taking away your 300k homes thanks to their high paying roofing jobs.

“A lot of young people are saying housing is way too expensive,” the vice president said. “Why is that? Because we flooded the country with 30 million illegal immigrants who were taking houses that ought, by right, go to American citizens.”

This is an angle I thought about and it does hold some merit.

If section 8 housing or low income housing is being used to help the migrants/etc then sure.

In regality it's places like Fairfield, AirBNB and Vrbo that have placed more damage on the housing market than the migrants have.

How would section 8 housing used for migrants affect the housing supply and prices? Plus Vance didn't make some macro argument of downstream effects. He said "..who were taking houses that ought, by right, go to American citizens".

The actual effect is that we are taking away laborers needed to build.

Very easily. More migrants need more housing. With the housing deficit anything going towards that would make supply lower. I said if that is the angle he was going for sure. But apparently not.

We have plenty of labor to build houses, that's a bullshit excuse why supply is low. I mentioned why supply is actually low and raised prices. Corporations bought tons of houses taking them away from the public.

Corps are buying existing homes. Why aren't builders building new homes? Is it really just zoning and red tape? That seems unlikely.

Second, I still down understand how section 8 housing would drive up the cost of buying a home? You are talking about two explicitly different economic classes here. Are you saying that people moving into section 8 are driving other people out of it, and those people are then buying homes? That doesn't make much sense. If you are section 8, you can't afford a home. Maybe there's some third order effect, but I've never seen an argument that passes of the sniff test of being material.

Here me out one more time. I said it was a stretch saying that the migrants caused the housing problem.

The only way I can see it doing that was from depleted supply because of the influx.

Not all low income housing is city/state owned. There are people whom have deals with those entities. If they all get filled then of course prices will go up.

It's an angle he was going for that holds a little weight, not much.

tempo_n_groove · November 18

Where I live on Long Island Fairfield buys up rental properties, slaps on new paint, some appliances and raises the rent 30-50%.

They are looking to make a return on their investment.

Lerxst1992 · November 18

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Nearly 60% of all mortgages today are locked in at below 4%. No one’s giving those rates up. The govt intervened and we have a decade or two of less housing inventory. At least y’all can blame 45 for that.

maybe just maybe, there will be one light bulb to go off here.

I didn't realize monetary policy just started a decade or two ago.

Second, no one is talking about not enough homes for sale. We are talking about not enough supply, which is focused on the building side. If no one is selling their homes because their rates are low and they don't want to lose it, then are you arguing for higher interest rates? Because I think you and your new-found stable genius president appear to be 69% of disconnected on that issue.

Record low interest rates and five years later 60% of mortgages are still locked in at less than 4%. You have a comparable for that? not enough homes for sale causes low supply. We had a huge hit to construction as a result of the 2008 crisis, and did not see what we are today regarding affordability, based on the census data copied below. The ten year spike leading to that crisis is clear as day in the numbers, as is the relative stablity of construction increases in recent years. That’s not to say we don’t need more building, but pointing out what the data says. The data doesn’t belong to a political party.

As I’ve said often id never vote maga, I’m simply against the recent rise of the socialist and woke wings of the Democratic Party. I’d rather have a party competitive in more regions outside the base. Blaming the wealthy for this problem is the new darling of the party is absurd.

First column is total units completed.

Lerxst1992 · November 18

tempo_n_groove said:

Where I live on Long Island Fairfield buys up rental properties, slaps on new paint, some appliances and raises the rent 30-50%.

They are looking to make a return on their investment.

Don’t forget the granite countertops, gyms and heated pools. If there wasn’t a market for this, it wouldn’t exist.

tempo_n_groove · November 18

Lerxst1992 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Where I live on Long Island Fairfield buys up rental properties, slaps on new paint, some appliances and raises the rent 30-50%.

They are looking to make a return on their investment.

Don’t forget the granite countertops, gyms and heated pools. If there wasn’t a market for this, it wouldn’t exist.

They don't do that to all of them. I know they don't.

They are creating their own market. There was an article where Fairfield owned 1/5th of the rental properties on Long Island. 1 in 5. It's not just a Doors song.

tempo_n_groove · November 18

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Nearly 60% of all mortgages today are locked in at below 4%. No one’s giving those rates up. The govt intervened and we have a decade or two of less housing inventory. At least y’all can blame 45 for that.

maybe just maybe, there will be one light bulb to go off here.

I didn't realize monetary policy just started a decade or two ago.

Second, no one is talking about not enough homes for sale. We are talking about not enough supply, which is focused on the building side. If no one is selling their homes because their rates are low and they don't want to lose it, then are you arguing for higher interest rates? Because I think you and your new-found stable genius president appear to be 69% of disconnected on that issue.

Record low interest rates and five years later 60% of mortgages are still locked in at less than 4%. You have a comparable for that? not enough homes for sale causes low supply. We had a huge hit to construction as a result of the 2008 crisis, and did not see what we are today regarding affordability, based on the census data copied below. The ten year spike leading to that crisis is clear as day in the numbers, as is the relative stablity of construction increases in recent years. That’s not to say we don’t need more building, but pointing out what the data says. The data doesn’t belong to a political party.

As I’ve said often id never vote maga, I’m simply against the recent rise of the socialist and woke wings of the Democratic Party. I’d rather have a party competitive in more regions outside the base. Blaming the wealthy for this problem is the new darling of the party is absurd.

First column is total units completed.

For construction here on the island people are buying older houses, razing them then building new. The Mc Mansion if you will.

They are also taking older plots where there was nothing and creating multiplexes. The problem with that is the pricing is so high they are going half filled. The big push to get out of the city stopped and they are focusing on upgraded houses rather than the multiplexes. There isn't a rush to get out as fast now, people flush w cash can wait.

Again, this is what we are physically seeing in our area. Not sure what you are dealing with in the rest of the country. I mean 150k for a house in ohio? I might just start collecting cans out there...

Gern Blansten · November 18

tempo_n_groove said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Nearly 60% of all mortgages today are locked in at below 4%. No one’s giving those rates up. The govt intervened and we have a decade or two of less housing inventory. At least y’all can blame 45 for that.

maybe just maybe, there will be one light bulb to go off here.

I didn't realize monetary policy just started a decade or two ago.

Second, no one is talking about not enough homes for sale. We are talking about not enough supply, which is focused on the building side. If no one is selling their homes because their rates are low and they don't want to lose it, then are you arguing for higher interest rates? Because I think you and your new-found stable genius president appear to be 69% of disconnected on that issue.

Record low interest rates and five years later 60% of mortgages are still locked in at less than 4%. You have a comparable for that? not enough homes for sale causes low supply. We had a huge hit to construction as a result of the 2008 crisis, and did not see what we are today regarding affordability, based on the census data copied below. The ten year spike leading to that crisis is clear as day in the numbers, as is the relative stablity of construction increases in recent years. That’s not to say we don’t need more building, but pointing out what the data says. The data doesn’t belong to a political party.

As I’ve said often id never vote maga, I’m simply against the recent rise of the socialist and woke wings of the Democratic Party. I’d rather have a party competitive in more regions outside the base. Blaming the wealthy for this problem is the new darling of the party is absurd.

First column is total units completed.

For construction here on the island people are buying older houses, razing them then building new. The Mc Mansion if you will.

They are also taking older plots where there was nothing and creating multiplexes. The problem with that is the pricing is so high they are going half filled. The big push to get out of the city stopped and they are focusing on upgraded houses rather than the multiplexes. There isn't a rush to get out as fast now, people flush w cash can wait.

Again, this is what we are physically seeing in our area. Not sure what you are dealing with in the rest of the country. I mean 150k for a house in ohio? I might just start collecting cans out there...

my father in laws place will be going on the market at $70K....decent lot, separate barn/garage

It's a complete shithole but for $70K what do you expect?

mrussel1 · November 18

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Nearly 60% of all mortgages today are locked in at below 4%. No one’s giving those rates up. The govt intervened and we have a decade or two of less housing inventory. At least y’all can blame 45 for that.

maybe just maybe, there will be one light bulb to go off here.

I didn't realize monetary policy just started a decade or two ago.

Second, no one is talking about not enough homes for sale. We are talking about not enough supply, which is focused on the building side. If no one is selling their homes because their rates are low and they don't want to lose it, then are you arguing for higher interest rates? Because I think you and your new-found stable genius president appear to be 69% of disconnected on that issue.

Record low interest rates and five years later 60% of mortgages are still locked in at less than 4%. You have a comparable for that? not enough homes for sale causes low supply. We had a huge hit to construction as a result of the 2008 crisis, and did not see what we are today regarding affordability, based on the census data copied below. The ten year spike leading to that crisis is clear as day in the numbers, as is the relative stablity of construction increases in recent years. That’s not to say we don’t need more building, but pointing out what the data says. The data doesn’t belong to a political party.

As I’ve said often id never vote maga, I’m simply against the recent rise of the socialist and woke wings of the Democratic Party. I’d rather have a party competitive in more regions outside the base. Blaming the wealthy for this problem is the new darling of the party is absurd.

First column is total units completed.

So we're building the same number of units as we were in the 80's, when the population was 220MM. And now the population is 340MM. There's your problem.

Then you say, "not enough homes for sale causes low supply". Yes, and what happened when the rates were record low? The homes were selling in two days, after a 48 hour bidding war. Doesn't that tell you there is something wrong?

I still don't understand if you are arguing for lower interest rates or higher ones, but regardless, the lack of building is the problem.

tempo_n_groove · November 18

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Nearly 60% of all mortgages today are locked in at below 4%. No one’s giving those rates up. The govt intervened and we have a decade or two of less housing inventory. At least y’all can blame 45 for that.

maybe just maybe, there will be one light bulb to go off here.

I didn't realize monetary policy just started a decade or two ago.

Second, no one is talking about not enough homes for sale. We are talking about not enough supply, which is focused on the building side. If no one is selling their homes because their rates are low and they don't want to lose it, then are you arguing for higher interest rates? Because I think you and your new-found stable genius president appear to be 69% of disconnected on that issue.

Record low interest rates and five years later 60% of mortgages are still locked in at less than 4%. You have a comparable for that? not enough homes for sale causes low supply. We had a huge hit to construction as a result of the 2008 crisis, and did not see what we are today regarding affordability, based on the census data copied below. The ten year spike leading to that crisis is clear as day in the numbers, as is the relative stablity of construction increases in recent years. That’s not to say we don’t need more building, but pointing out what the data says. The data doesn’t belong to a political party.

As I’ve said often id never vote maga, I’m simply against the recent rise of the socialist and woke wings of the Democratic Party. I’d rather have a party competitive in more regions outside the base. Blaming the wealthy for this problem is the new darling of the party is absurd.

First column is total units completed.

For construction here on the island people are buying older houses, razing them then building new. The Mc Mansion if you will.

They are also taking older plots where there was nothing and creating multiplexes. The problem with that is the pricing is so high they are going half filled. The big push to get out of the city stopped and they are focusing on upgraded houses rather than the multiplexes. There isn't a rush to get out as fast now, people flush w cash can wait.

Again, this is what we are physically seeing in our area. Not sure what you are dealing with in the rest of the country. I mean 150k for a house in ohio? I might just start collecting cans out there...

my father in laws place will be going on the market at $70K....decent lot, separate barn/garage

It's a complete shithole but for $70K what do you expect?

How much acerage?

My dream is to have a well and some land and to get a windmill to create some power.

Pretty simple.

70k for a plot?

Not bad.

mrussel1 · November 18

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Nearly 60% of all mortgages today are locked in at below 4%. No one’s giving those rates up. The govt intervened and we have a decade or two of less housing inventory. At least y’all can blame 45 for that.

maybe just maybe, there will be one light bulb to go off here.

I didn't realize monetary policy just started a decade or two ago.

Second, no one is talking about not enough homes for sale. We are talking about not enough supply, which is focused on the building side. If no one is selling their homes because their rates are low and they don't want to lose it, then are you arguing for higher interest rates? Because I think you and your new-found stable genius president appear to be 69% of disconnected on that issue.

Record low interest rates and five years later 60% of mortgages are still locked in at less than 4%. You have a comparable for that? not enough homes for sale causes low supply. We had a huge hit to construction as a result of the 2008 crisis, and did not see what we are today regarding affordability, based on the census data copied below. The ten year spike leading to that crisis is clear as day in the numbers, as is the relative stablity of construction increases in recent years. That’s not to say we don’t need more building, but pointing out what the data says. The data doesn’t belong to a political party.

As I’ve said often id never vote maga, I’m simply against the recent rise of the socialist and woke wings of the Democratic Party. I’d rather have a party competitive in more regions outside the base. Blaming the wealthy for this problem is the new darling of the party is absurd.

First column is total units completed.

For construction here on the island people are buying older houses, razing them then building new. The Mc Mansion if you will.

They are also taking older plots where there was nothing and creating multiplexes. The problem with that is the pricing is so high they are going half filled. The big push to get out of the city stopped and they are focusing on upgraded houses rather than the multiplexes. There isn't a rush to get out as fast now, people flush w cash can wait.

Again, this is what we are physically seeing in our area. Not sure what you are dealing with in the rest of the country. I mean 150k for a house in ohio? I might just start collecting cans out there...

my father in laws place will be going on the market at $70K....decent lot, separate barn/garage

It's a complete shithole but for $70K what do you expect?

How much acerage?

My dream is to have a well and some land and to get a windmill to create some power.

Pretty simple.

70k for a plot?

Not bad.

Sounds like that would require you to live in Ohio. That might also include having the Browns on television every week, which is something I would never wish upon anyone. I have been carrying that curse for 50 years, and have passed it down to my son. He hates me for being a Browns fan.

tempo_n_groove · November 18

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Nearly 60% of all mortgages today are locked in at below 4%. No one’s giving those rates up. The govt intervened and we have a decade or two of less housing inventory. At least y’all can blame 45 for that.

maybe just maybe, there will be one light bulb to go off here.

I didn't realize monetary policy just started a decade or two ago.

Second, no one is talking about not enough homes for sale. We are talking about not enough supply, which is focused on the building side. If no one is selling their homes because their rates are low and they don't want to lose it, then are you arguing for higher interest rates? Because I think you and your new-found stable genius president appear to be 69% of disconnected on that issue.

Record low interest rates and five years later 60% of mortgages are still locked in at less than 4%. You have a comparable for that? not enough homes for sale causes low supply. We had a huge hit to construction as a result of the 2008 crisis, and did not see what we are today regarding affordability, based on the census data copied below. The ten year spike leading to that crisis is clear as day in the numbers, as is the relative stablity of construction increases in recent years. That’s not to say we don’t need more building, but pointing out what the data says. The data doesn’t belong to a political party.

As I’ve said often id never vote maga, I’m simply against the recent rise of the socialist and woke wings of the Democratic Party. I’d rather have a party competitive in more regions outside the base. Blaming the wealthy for this problem is the new darling of the party is absurd.

First column is total units completed.

For construction here on the island people are buying older houses, razing them then building new. The Mc Mansion if you will.

They are also taking older plots where there was nothing and creating multiplexes. The problem with that is the pricing is so high they are going half filled. The big push to get out of the city stopped and they are focusing on upgraded houses rather than the multiplexes. There isn't a rush to get out as fast now, people flush w cash can wait.

Again, this is what we are physically seeing in our area. Not sure what you are dealing with in the rest of the country. I mean 150k for a house in ohio? I might just start collecting cans out there...

my father in laws place will be going on the market at $70K....decent lot, separate barn/garage

It's a complete shithole but for $70K what do you expect?

How much acerage?

My dream is to have a well and some land and to get a windmill to create some power.

Pretty simple.

70k for a plot?

Not bad.

Sounds like that would require you to live in Ohio. That might also include having the Browns on television every week, which is something I would never wish upon anyone. I have been carrying that curse for 50 years, and have passed it down to my son. He hates me for being a Browns fan.

Retired or semi retired I might not mind.

Shakeur Sanders on the tele would be great fodder for social media. If there is an nfl package I might have to partake then...

Remember I do live in the bad era of the Jets and Giants now for oh, 10 years at least? I have witnessed the bad fooseball.

Gern Blansten · November 18

Bengals...not Browns

If it's brown, flush it down

Tim Simmons · November 18

Guys as someone from Chicago, my advice is to give up on the NFL. You get your Sundays back, have time for other interests, it’s less stress and worry. It’s really amazing. It’s like getting another day on the weekend.

josevolution · November 18

Tim Simmons said:

Guys as someone from Chicago, my advice is to give up on the NFL. You get your Sundays back, have time for other interests, it’s less stress and worry. It’s really amazing. It’s like getting another day on the weekend.

Bingo ^^^ I’m done giving sports team my $$$ to watch or my free time specially where I will be living in two years! Plenty of outdoor activities that I love to do

mrussel1 · November 18

Gern Blansten said:

Bengals...not Browns

If it's brown, flush it down

Sometimes I forget we have a little brother down in Kentucky.

mickeyrat · November 19

Fed minutes show broad support for ending quantitative tightening - https://www.reuters.com/business/fed-minutes-show-support-ending-quantitative-tightening-2025-11-19/

Capitalism, The Fed and Economic Policy

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