Middle East ......

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,245
    Now do it for blacks in the US since the first slave ship arrived.
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,245
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    Sounds like the Israeli propaganda is doing its work
    Seriously ...you're claiming Hamas is not hiding under civilians in tunnels... which is a well-established fact.


    Next you're going to claim that is not a war crime?


    hi. where are israeli military installations?  where do its personnel live , especially its leadership. just curious, so I can get a full and balanced view of the situation. 
    Did you ever receive a reply? Leaves a strong impression.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,435
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    Sounds like the Israeli propaganda is doing its work
    Seriously ...you're claiming Hamas is not hiding under civilians in tunnels... which is a well-established fact.


    Next you're going to claim that is not a war crime?


    hi. where are israeli military installations?  where do its personnel live , especially its leadership. just curious, so I can get a full and balanced view of the situation. 
    Did you ever receive a reply? Leaves a strong impression.
    we'll always have ai

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,898
    mickeyrat said:
    correct me if I am wrong. Israel does in fact exist, no?
    if not, who is starving and killing all the palestinians?





    Hombres look much stronger than me and carrying huge bags of food. Unless that’s Hamas stealing 90% of the UN food deliveries, which doesn’t get posted here. Why not?
    Because it’s not happening. Stop with the Bibi propaganda.

    A Hypothetical Calculation

    Let's consider a few key periods and make some highly simplified assumptions.

    1. The Ancient Population

     * Initial Population (P_0): Biblical and historical estimates of the ancient Israelite population vary widely. Some scholars suggest a few hundred thousand people in the 10th century BCE, while others argue for much lower numbers in earlier periods. Let's take a generous but still widely debated estimate of 1 million people around the time of the First Temple (c. 900 BCE) as our starting point.

     * Time Period (t): From 900 BCE to today, which is roughly 2,900 years.

     * Annual Growth Rate (r): Pre-modern societies generally had very low population growth rates, often close to zero, because high birth rates were offset by high death rates. However, for the sake of this thought experiment, let's assume a tiny, consistent, positive growth rate. Let's use 0.2% per year (a value that is still very low by modern standards, but high for a pre-modern, pre-industrial population).


    The Calculation

    Using the exponential growth formula:

    P(2900) = 1,000,000 * e^{(0.002 * 2900)}

    P(2900) = 1,000,000 * e^{5.8}

    P(2900) \approx 1,000,000 * 330.4

    P(2900) \approx 330,400,000

    This simple model suggests that if the ancient population was 1 million and grew at a constant rate of 0.2% annually for 2,900 years, it could reach over 330 million people. This doesn't even account for the entire Jewish diaspora.

    Now THATS Jenna’s side.

    “Some scholars.” That’s your source? What a joke.

    There’s a lot of data in that question..


    Estimating the population of ancient Israel during the First Temple period (c. 900 BCE) is challenging due to a lack of precise data. Scholars rely on archaeological evidence and interpretations of ancient texts, which often lead to widely varying estimates.
    Here's a breakdown of some of the key points and estimates:
    Population of the Kingdoms
     * Total Population: Some sources suggest that the total settled population of Canaan during this period was not much more than a hundred thousand. This number likely refers to the overall population, not just the Israelites.
     * Two Kingdoms: According to the biblical narrative, after King Solomon's death (c. 930 BCE), the unified monarchy split into two separate kingdoms: the Kingdom of Israel in the north and the Kingdom of Judah in the south. The Kingdom of Israel was the larger of the two.
     * Archaeological Evidence: The archaeological record indicates that the Israelite society of the early Iron Age (which includes the First Temple period) was primarily made up of small villages. The largest of these villages may have had populations of up to 300 or 400 people.
    Population of Jerusalem
     * Minimalist View: Some scholars, like Hillel Geva, take a more conservative or "minimalist" view based on archaeological findings. According to Geva's estimates:
       * During the time of King Solomon (10th century BCE): The city of Jerusalem was expanded, and its population is estimated to have been around 2,000.
       * By the end of the 8th century BCE: At its height, the population of Jerusalem is estimated to have reached about 8,000.
     * Other Estimates: Other scholars have offered higher estimates for Jerusalem's population during this era, ranging from 2,500 to 5,000 people during Solomon's time.
    Why the Discrepancies?
     * Archaeological vs. Biblical Data: The biblical accounts often suggest a powerful and populous kingdom, particularly under Kings David and Solomon. However, the archaeological evidence presents a picture of a more modest, village-based society with smaller urban centers.
     * Methodological Challenges: It is difficult to accurately estimate ancient populations based on archaeological remains. Methods used include calculating population density from the size of settlements, but these methods rely on assumptions that are hard to prove.
     * Focus on Different Time Periods: It's important to note that the First Temple period spans several centuries (from about 1000 BCE to 586 BCE). Population levels likely fluctuated significantly during this time.
    In conclusion, while the biblical narrative paints a picture of a vast and powerful kingdom, modern historical and archaeological scholarship suggests a more modest population. The most commonly cited scholarly estimates for the total settled Israelite population are in the low hundreds of thousands, with the population of the capital city of Jerusalem being a few thousand at most.



  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,245
    mickeyrat said:
    correct me if I am wrong. Israel does in fact exist, no?
    if not, who is starving and killing all the palestinians?





    Hombres look much stronger than me and carrying huge bags of food. Unless that’s Hamas stealing 90% of the UN food deliveries, which doesn’t get posted here. Why not?
    Because it’s not happening. Stop with the Bibi propaganda.

    A Hypothetical Calculation

    Let's consider a few key periods and make some highly simplified assumptions.

    1. The Ancient Population

     * Initial Population (P_0): Biblical and historical estimates of the ancient Israelite population vary widely. Some scholars suggest a few hundred thousand people in the 10th century BCE, while others argue for much lower numbers in earlier periods. Let's take a generous but still widely debated estimate of 1 million people around the time of the First Temple (c. 900 BCE) as our starting point.

     * Time Period (t): From 900 BCE to today, which is roughly 2,900 years.

     * Annual Growth Rate (r): Pre-modern societies generally had very low population growth rates, often close to zero, because high birth rates were offset by high death rates. However, for the sake of this thought experiment, let's assume a tiny, consistent, positive growth rate. Let's use 0.2% per year (a value that is still very low by modern standards, but high for a pre-modern, pre-industrial population).


    The Calculation

    Using the exponential growth formula:

    P(2900) = 1,000,000 * e^{(0.002 * 2900)}

    P(2900) = 1,000,000 * e^{5.8}

    P(2900) \approx 1,000,000 * 330.4

    P(2900) \approx 330,400,000

    This simple model suggests that if the ancient population was 1 million and grew at a constant rate of 0.2% annually for 2,900 years, it could reach over 330 million people. This doesn't even account for the entire Jewish diaspora.

    Now THATS Jenna’s side.

    “Some scholars.” That’s your source? What a joke.

    There’s a lot of data in that question..


    Estimating the population of ancient Israel during the First Temple period (c. 900 BCE) is challenging due to a lack of precise data. Scholars rely on archaeological evidence and interpretations of ancient texts, which often lead to widely varying estimates.
    Here's a breakdown of some of the key points and estimates:
    Population of the Kingdoms
     * Total Population: Some sources suggest that the total settled population of Canaan during this period was not much more than a hundred thousand. This number likely refers to the overall population, not just the Israelites.
     * Two Kingdoms: According to the biblical narrative, after King Solomon's death (c. 930 BCE), the unified monarchy split into two separate kingdoms: the Kingdom of Israel in the north and the Kingdom of Judah in the south. The Kingdom of Israel was the larger of the two.
     * Archaeological Evidence: The archaeological record indicates that the Israelite society of the early Iron Age (which includes the First Temple period) was primarily made up of small villages. The largest of these villages may have had populations of up to 300 or 400 people.
    Population of Jerusalem
     * Minimalist View: Some scholars, like Hillel Geva, take a more conservative or "minimalist" view based on archaeological findings. According to Geva's estimates:
       * During the time of King Solomon (10th century BCE): The city of Jerusalem was expanded, and its population is estimated to have been around 2,000.
       * By the end of the 8th century BCE: At its height, the population of Jerusalem is estimated to have reached about 8,000.
     * Other Estimates: Other scholars have offered higher estimates for Jerusalem's population during this era, ranging from 2,500 to 5,000 people during Solomon's time.
    Why the Discrepancies?
     * Archaeological vs. Biblical Data: The biblical accounts often suggest a powerful and populous kingdom, particularly under Kings David and Solomon. However, the archaeological evidence presents a picture of a more modest, village-based society with smaller urban centers.
     * Methodological Challenges: It is difficult to accurately estimate ancient populations based on archaeological remains. Methods used include calculating population density from the size of settlements, but these methods rely on assumptions that are hard to prove.
     * Focus on Different Time Periods: It's important to note that the First Temple period spans several centuries (from about 1000 BCE to 586 BCE). Population levels likely fluctuated significantly during this time.
    In conclusion, while the biblical narrative paints a picture of a vast and powerful kingdom, modern historical and archaeological scholarship suggests a more modest population. The most commonly cited scholarly estimates for the total settled Israelite population are in the low hundreds of thousands, with the population of the capital city of Jerusalem being a few thousand at most.



    Now do the blacks.

    Israel is still committing genocide.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,245
    “Some ‘scholars’.”
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,435
    “My whole life people have said to me: ‘You are too kind, too sensitive.’ When I interviewed for a schoolteacher position, the principal told me: ‘You will never be able to control the students.’ Because of this I built in my mind that I’m not a very strong person, you know? I decided to focus on my house, my family, my children. When the war started I was working as a data encoder; I spent all day on the laptop. But Doctors Without Borders said to me: ‘Kholoud, there is no one left to ask. We need you to help organize our operations in the North.’ And I’ve done it. I organized a network of people on the ground. Everyone in the organization knows me now, respects me. And I’ve done all of this while raising four children, and another four children who lost their parents. In December we spent fifteen days on the street because there were too many bombs. Nobody could sleep safely inside. I ate nothing during this time, zero. I just drank some water every two days. We were sheltering in a small corridor inside a school yard. My husband left us to look for food, and that’s when the bomb fell. When it falls close to you, you don’t hear anything. You just see the body parts flying through the air: the hand of someone, the leg of someone, the head of someone. My son comes to me and his face is blood. My daughter comes to me and she is clutching her chest. My other two children are holding their legs; I can’t tell how they are injured. There was no hospital left in Gaza City, so I brought them back to our house. Our neighbor is a doctor, so I asked him to come over. We discovered that one of my children had shrapnel in the head. The other three in the leg. There was no anesthesia, no stitches. We put something in the children’s mouth, and I held them down while he removed the shrapnel with the kitchen knife. You cannot imagine how the children were screaming. But we removed the shrapnel. And when we finished, I took the knife, and removed the shrapnel from my own leg. ‘Too kind, too sensitive.’ I heard this my entire life. But I can tell you: another person lives inside you. And if the world forces you, you will find her.”

    ----------------------------------------------------

    Kholoud’s story is part of a series of stories I am currently doing on the Palestinian Staff of Doctors Without Borders in Gaza. I will be sharing these stories over the next several days. 

    From Médecins Sans Frontières / MSF: Kholoud Al-Sedawi has been with MSF (Doctors Without Borders) since 2019, progressing from Data Entry Operator to her current coordination support role. When most humanitarian workers withdrew from northern Gaza, Kholoud stayed and helped restart MSF's operations amid some of the genocide's most severe conditions. Her work focuses on restoring basic healthcare services where hospitals have been damaged or destroyed and organizing mobile clinics. While the situation remains dire, Kholoud's persistence has enabled MSF to maintain a presence in northern Gaza when most organizations could not.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,898
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    Sounds like the Israeli propaganda is doing its work
    Seriously ...you're claiming Hamas is not hiding under civilians in tunnels... which is a well-established fact.


    Next you're going to claim that is not a war crime?


    hi. where are israeli military installations?  where do its personnel live , especially its leadership. just curious, so I can get a full and balanced view of the situation. 
    Did you ever receive a reply? Leaves a strong impression.


    Ok mick….dont see the word exterminate there



    The Intent to Destroy: The legal definition of genocide under the 1948 Genocide Convention is "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group." The location of military installations is not a direct piece of evidence for "intent." However, the location of targets and the resulting civilian death toll are used by those making the accusation as evidence of a disregard for civilian life, which they argue contributes to a broader intent to destroy or displace the Palestinian population.

     * Israel's Counter-Arguments: Israel strongly rejects the accusations of genocide. Its military and government officials state that their operations are aimed at Hamas, not the Palestinian people, and that they take extensive measures to avoid civilian casualties. They argue that Hamas deliberately embeds its military infrastructure within civilian areas, using them as human shields, and that this makes it difficult to conduct military operations without causing civilian harm. Israel maintains that its actions are in self-defense and are in line with international law.

  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,245
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    Sounds like the Israeli propaganda is doing its work
    Seriously ...you're claiming Hamas is not hiding under civilians in tunnels... which is a well-established fact.


    Next you're going to claim that is not a war crime?


    hi. where are israeli military installations?  where do its personnel live , especially its leadership. just curious, so I can get a full and balanced view of the situation. 
    Did you ever receive a reply? Leaves a strong impression.


    Ok mick….dont see the word exterminate there



    The Intent to Destroy: The legal definition of genocide under the 1948 Genocide Convention is "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group." The location of military installations is not a direct piece of evidence for "intent." However, the location of targets and the resulting civilian death toll are used by those making the accusation as evidence of a disregard for civilian life, which they argue contributes to a broader intent to destroy or displace the Palestinian population.

     * Israel's Counter-Arguments: Israel strongly rejects the accusations of genocide. Its military and government officials state that their operations are aimed at Hamas, not the Palestinian people, and that they take extensive measures to avoid civilian casualties. They argue that Hamas deliberately embeds its military infrastructure within civilian areas, using them as human shields, and that this makes it difficult to conduct military operations without causing civilian harm. Israel maintains that its actions are in self-defense and are in line with international law.

    You take the Israeli government’s rejection of the whether they are committing genocide as a basis of fact? Generated by AI? Good lord.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,245
    Totally normal and acceptable, eh? And because it’s not AI generated, the facts don’t count as well?

    Israeli unit tasked with smearing Gaza journalists as Hamas fighters – report 

    Israeli-Palestinian magazine says IDF ‘legitimisation cell’ set up to blunt global outrage over killing of media staff

    A special unit in Israel’s military was tasked with identifying reporters it could smear as undercover Hamas fighters, to target them and to blunt international outrage over the killing of media workers, the Israeli-Palestinian outlet +972 Magazine reports.

    The “legitimisation cell” was set up after the 7 October 2023 Hamas attack to gather information that could bolster Israel’s image and shore up diplomatic and military support from key allies, the report said, citing three intelligence sources.

    According to the report, in at least one case the unit misrepresented information in order to falsely describe a journalist as a militant, a designation that in Gaza is in effect a death sentence. The label was reversed before the man was attacked, one of the sources said.

    Earlier this week, Israel killed the Al Jazeera journalist Anas al-Sharif and three colleagues in their makeshift newsroom, after claiming Sharif was a Hamas commander. The killings focused global attention on the extreme dangers faced by Palestinian journalists in Gaza and Israel’s efforts to manipulate media coverage of the war.

    Foreign reporters have been barred from entering Gaza apart from a few brief and tightly controlled trips with the Israeli military, who impose restrictions including a ban on speaking to Palestinians.

    Palestinian journalists reporting from the ground are the most at risk in the world, with more than 180 killed by Israeli attacks in less than two years, according to the Committee to Protect Journalists. Israel carried out 26 targeted killings of journalists in that period, the CPJ said, describing them as murders.

    Israel has produced an unconvincing dossier of unverified evidence on Sharif’s purported Hamas links, and failed to address how he would have juggled a military command role with regular broadcast duties in one of the most heavily surveilled places on Earth. Israel did not attempt to justify killing his three colleagues.

    Before the attack, press freedom groups and Sharif himself had warned that Israeli accusations of Hamas links, first made in 2024, were designed to “manufacture consent to kill”. They had been revived and repeated with increasing frequency after his reporting on famine in Gaza went viral.

    Intelligence sources told +972 magazine that the “legitimisation cell” worked to undermine the work done by Palestinian journalists as well as their protected status under international law.

    Officers were eager to find a media worker they could link to Hamas, because they were convinced Gaza-based journalists were “smearing [Israel’s] name in front of the world”, a source was quoted saying.

    In at least one case, they misrepresented evidence to falsely claim a reporter was an undercover militant, two sources said, although the designation was reversed before an attack was ordered.

    “They were eager to label him as a target, as a terrorist, to say it’s OK to attack him,” one recalled. “They said: during the day he’s a journalist, at night he’s a platoon commander. Everyone was excited. But there was a chain of errors and corner-cutting.”

    “In the end, they realised he really was a journalist,” the source added, and the reporter was taken off the target list.

    Israel’s government often gave the army orders about where the unit should focus their work, and the primary motive of the “legitimisation cell” was public relations, not national security, the sources said.

    When media criticism of Israel over a particular issue intensified the cell would be tasked with finding intelligence that could be declassified and used to counter the narrative, the magazine reported.

    “If the global media is talking about Israel killing innocent journalists, then immediately there’s a push to find one journalist who might not be so innocent, as if that somehow makes killing the other 20 acceptable,” the article quoted an intelligence source saying.

    The cell also reportedly sought information on Hamas’s use of schools and hospitals for military purposes, and failed attacks by Palestinian armed groups that harmed civilians there.

    Some in the unit were reportedly concerned about publishing classified material for public relations reasons rather than military or security objectives. Officers were told their work was crucial to Israel’s ability to keep fighting, one source said.

    “The idea was to (allow the military to) operate without pressure, so countries like America wouldn’t stop supplying weapons,” a second source said. “Anything that could bolster Israel’s international legitimacy to keep fighting.”

    The IDF has been approached for comment.

    On Friday, at least 16 Palestinians were killed by Israeli attacks in Gaza, including five who were trying to get food aid, medical sources told Al Jazeera.

    Israel also issued evacuation orders for northern parts of Gaza City’s Zeitoun neighbourhood, as it intensified military operations before a planned escalation of the ground war in Gaza, which has been widely criticised domestically and abroad.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/15/israeli-military-unit-reportedly-tasked-with-linking-journalists-in-gaza-to-hamas

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  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,369
    What the hell is wrong with you people debating whether or not this is a genocide? This is hell on earth for the entirety of Gaza, and not within the capabilities of the population to stop. Is that not bad enough to warrant feeling this is an inexcusable situation that needs addressing? 
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • DarthMaeglin
    DarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,995
    benjs said:
    What the hell is wrong with you people debating whether or not this is a genocide? This is hell on earth for the entirety of Gaza, and not within the capabilities of the population to stop. Is that not bad enough to warrant feeling this is an inexcusable situation that needs addressing? 
    The problem is that if one suggests both sides have responsibilities here they’re pigeonholed as supporting genocide by the Israelis.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

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  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,898
    benjs said:
    What the hell is wrong with you people debating whether or not this is a genocide? This is hell on earth for the entirety of Gaza, and not within the capabilities of the population to stop. Is that not bad enough to warrant feeling this is an inexcusable situation that needs addressing? 


    I'm sure you know  who invented that word and what it's exact meaning it is. And why the PLO decided decades ago to hijack that word


    What's happening in the region is horrible. But it is not an extermination. That's an anti-semitic lie, as it is a direct result of the history of that word,  but a lot of Jews out there are perfectly okay with it. 

    I am not part of their culture, but Trump is spot on and universities are paying hundreds of millions of dollars because of it


  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,369
    benjs said:
    What the hell is wrong with you people debating whether or not this is a genocide? This is hell on earth for the entirety of Gaza, and not within the capabilities of the population to stop. Is that not bad enough to warrant feeling this is an inexcusable situation that needs addressing? 


    I'm sure you know  who invented that word and what it's exact meaning it is. And why the PLO decided decades ago to hijack that word


    What's happening in the region is horrible. But it is not an extermination. That's an anti-semitic lie, as it is a direct result of the history of that word,  but a lot of Jews out there are perfectly okay with it. 

    I am not part of their culture, but Trump is spot on and universities are paying hundreds of millions of dollars because of it


    I don’t care to discuss a damn thing with you, nor do I appreciate the smug and condescending “I’m sure you know…”. Everyone calling or defending that it’s not a genocide, is wasting their time and energy. It’s so misguided and absolutely pointless. 
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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,435
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    Sounds like the Israeli propaganda is doing its work
    Seriously ...you're claiming Hamas is not hiding under civilians in tunnels... which is a well-established fact.


    Next you're going to claim that is not a war crime?


    hi. where are israeli military installations?  where do its personnel live , especially its leadership. just curious, so I can get a full and balanced view of the situation. 
    Did you ever receive a reply? Leaves a strong impression.


    Ok mick….dont see the word exterminate there



    The Intent to Destroy: The legal definition of genocide under the 1948 Genocide Convention is "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group." The location of military installations is not a direct piece of evidence for "intent." However, the location of targets and the resulting civilian death toll are used by those making the accusation as evidence of a disregard for civilian life, which they argue contributes to a broader intent to destroy or displace the Palestinian population.

     * Israel's Counter-Arguments: Israel strongly rejects the accusations of genocide. Its military and government officials state that their operations are aimed at Hamas, not the Palestinian people, and that they take extensive measures to avoid civilian casualties. They argue that Hamas deliberately embeds its military infrastructure within civilian areas, using them as human shields, and that this makes it difficult to conduct military operations without causing civilian harm. Israel maintains that its actions are in self-defense and are in line with international law.


    once again answering a question thay wasnt asked. I took you as a reasonably intelligent person. but you show an inability to answer a very basic and simple question. 

    its disingenuous and frankly very insulting. 

    is it a lucrative job? working for hasbara?
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  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,898
    benjs said:
    benjs said:
    What the hell is wrong with you people debating whether or not this is a genocide? This is hell on earth for the entirety of Gaza, and not within the capabilities of the population to stop. Is that not bad enough to warrant feeling this is an inexcusable situation that needs addressing? 


    I'm sure you know  who invented that word and what it's exact meaning it is. And why the PLO decided decades ago to hijack that word


    What's happening in the region is horrible. But it is not an extermination. That's an anti-semitic lie, as it is a direct result of the history of that word,  but a lot of Jews out there are perfectly okay with it. 

    I am not part of their culture, but Trump is spot on and universities are paying hundreds of millions of dollars because of it


    I don’t care to discuss a damn thing with you, nor do I appreciate the smug and condescending “I’m sure you know…”. Everyone calling or defending that it’s not a genocide, is wasting their time and energy. It’s so misguided and absolutely pointless. 


    For the crap that gets posted on this site, attacking someone for an innocent “ im sure you know” is disgusting. I’m  sure I’ll be ignored for here on out,. Have a nice life, and enjoy Hamas in your neighborhood.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,102
    mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    Sounds like the Israeli propaganda is doing its work
    Seriously ...you're claiming Hamas is not hiding under civilians in tunnels... which is a well-established fact.


    Next you're going to claim that is not a war crime?


    hi. where are israeli military installations?  where do its personnel live , especially its leadership. just curious, so I can get a full and balanced view of the situation. 
    Did you ever receive a reply? Leaves a strong impression.


    Ok mick….dont see the word exterminate there



    The Intent to Destroy: The legal definition of genocide under the 1948 Genocide Convention is "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group." The location of military installations is not a direct piece of evidence for "intent." However, the location of targets and the resulting civilian death toll are used by those making the accusation as evidence of a disregard for civilian life, which they argue contributes to a broader intent to destroy or displace the Palestinian population.

     * Israel's Counter-Arguments: Israel strongly rejects the accusations of genocide. Its military and government officials state that their operations are aimed at Hamas, not the Palestinian people, and that they take extensive measures to avoid civilian casualties. They argue that Hamas deliberately embeds its military infrastructure within civilian areas, using them as human shields, and that this makes it difficult to conduct military operations without causing civilian harm. Israel maintains that its actions are in self-defense and are in line with international law.


    once again answering a question thay wasnt asked. I took you as a reasonably intelligent person. but you show an inability to answer a very basic and simple question. 

    its disingenuous and frankly very insulting. 

    is it a lucrative job? working for hasbara?
    it is artificial intelligence, not actual intelligence, so remember that.

    actual intelligence is relying on your senses and seeing what is going on and being able to label it as such and call it as it is.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,898
    mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    Sounds like the Israeli propaganda is doing its work
    Seriously ...you're claiming Hamas is not hiding under civilians in tunnels... which is a well-established fact.


    Next you're going to claim that is not a war crime?


    hi. where are israeli military installations?  where do its personnel live , especially its leadership. just curious, so I can get a full and balanced view of the situation. 
    Did you ever receive a reply? Leaves a strong impression.


    Ok mick….dont see the word exterminate there



    The Intent to Destroy: The legal definition of genocide under the 1948 Genocide Convention is "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group." The location of military installations is not a direct piece of evidence for "intent." However, the location of targets and the resulting civilian death toll are used by those making the accusation as evidence of a disregard for civilian life, which they argue contributes to a broader intent to destroy or displace the Palestinian population.

     * Israel's Counter-Arguments: Israel strongly rejects the accusations of genocide. Its military and government officials state that their operations are aimed at Hamas, not the Palestinian people, and that they take extensive measures to avoid civilian casualties. They argue that Hamas deliberately embeds its military infrastructure within civilian areas, using them as human shields, and that this makes it difficult to conduct military operations without causing civilian harm. Israel maintains that its actions are in self-defense and are in line with international law.


    once again answering a question thay wasnt asked. I took you as a reasonably intelligent person. but you show an inability to answer a very basic and simple question. 

    its disingenuous and frankly very insulting. 

    is it a lucrative job? working for hasbara?

    Your question as copied and pasted , “where are israeli military installations?” 


    was literally fed into Gemini, as evidenced by the reply above. You asked twice, Hal asked for you, and stead of engaging, you personally attack yet again.