Motivating an adolescent child in school?

We All Believe · March 9

My best friend, MJ, is struggling with her oldest, JR, who turned 14 in February.

JR is a super smart and super sweet kid, but she cares less and less about doing well in school. She has been getting by solely on her intelligence, while her effort and level of care have been bottoming out. And now that she's older, it's becoming worse.

MJ has tried everything - being a bestie, rewarding good grades and improved effort, tough love, consequences, etc.. Nothing is working.

They went over her classes and schedule, and walked through what JR might have to cut back if her grades didn't inprove.

She just got a second D on a second Spanish test, and now MJ feels like the response is gonna be "So? School doesn't matter.". And if she pulls her from drama/other activities, or takes away electronic devices, she won't care.

Any of you parents have trouble cracking the code with motivating your kids in school? How did you handle it? Did they grow out of it?

Thanks in advance for the suggestions.

Get_Right · March 9

You cannot take the devices, that will only make it worse. But maybe implementing screen time would help. I would not worry about a D at 14. Yes, I do think they grow out of it. There is only so much you can do to get them involved. IMHO, the more you push, the more they will resist. They need to make their own choices. All you can do is say it's important, put them in the best possible educational environment, and let them grow. We got tutors for both our kids during sophomore and junior year in high school. It kept them on task during the school week and they had better results, but it was (and still is) expensive.

Edit: I just noticed you are in Eastchester, NY. I live nearby. Some of these school districts in westchester can be hyper competitive. I find that the competition can sometimes makes kids withdraw if they feel they cannot keep up. Make sure all school resources are being used.

We All Believe · March 9

Get_Right said:

You cannot take the devices, that will only make it worse. But maybe implementing screen time would help. I would not worry about a D at 14. Yes, I do think they grow out of it. There is only so much you can do to get them involved. IMHO, the more you push, the more they will resist. They need to make their own choices. All you can do is say it's important, put them in the best possible educational environment, and let them grow. We got tutors for both our kids during sophomore and junior year in high school. It kept them on task during the school week and they had better results, but it was (and still is) expensive.

Edit: I just noticed you are in Eastchester, NY. I live nearby. Some of these school districts in westchester can be hyper competitive. I find that the competition can sometimes makes kids withdraw if they feel they cannot keep up. Make sure all school resources are being used.

Thank you for the feedback.

MJ has been better about not getting in JR'S face, and trying to let her figure it out for herself, but it's still a work in progress. She's going to talk to the Spanish teacher this week and hopefully come up with a plan. She's had tutors for other subjects, but I don't know if she's had one for Spanish.

They actually live in the Albany area. We are college friends. But it's good to know there's another PJ diehard in Westchester! If you heard a black Grand Cherokee pumping Dark Matter way too loud on Central Avenue yesterday, that was me lol.

Get_Right · March 9

We All Believe said:

Get_Right said:

You cannot take the devices, that will only make it worse. But maybe implementing screen time would help. I would not worry about a D at 14. Yes, I do think they grow out of it. There is only so much you can do to get them involved. IMHO, the more you push, the more they will resist. They need to make their own choices. All you can do is say it's important, put them in the best possible educational environment, and let them grow. We got tutors for both our kids during sophomore and junior year in high school. It kept them on task during the school week and they had better results, but it was (and still is) expensive.

Edit: I just noticed you are in Eastchester, NY. I live nearby. Some of these school districts in westchester can be hyper competitive. I find that the competition can sometimes makes kids withdraw if they feel they cannot keep up. Make sure all school resources are being used.

Thank you for the feedback.

MJ has been better about not getting in JR'S face, and trying to let her figure it out for herself, but it's still a work in progress. She's going to talk to the Spanish teacher this week and hopefully come up with a plan. She's had tutors for other subjects, but I don't know if she's had one for Spanish.

They actually live in the Albany area. We are college friends. But it's good to know there's another PJ diehard in Westchester! If you heard a black Grand Cherokee pumping Dark Matter way too loud on Central Avenue yesterday, that was me lol.

I am farther north near Mt. Kisco. But I will look out for the loud Pearl Jam the next time we hit Shake Shack! I believe the Albany area has some good school districts. I had a few classmates at Syracuse that were from Albany. The key is making sure she goes for extra help when provided, that little extra effort can make a big difference in the way the teacher grades the student.

Its funny, both of my kids Spanish teachers were tough during high school. One minute late, marked absent. One day late on homework, marked incomplete. My 19 year old son had more than one D during high school and he is currently thriving in the SUNY college system. And keep in mind the SAT is all about english and math. I know people say it is less important, but I disagree, it is still important. Be a well rounded student (maybe with a job) with a decent GPA and an average SAT, and you will get accepted to college. SUNY Albany has a 68% acceptance rate. And it is 1/3 the cost of a private school.

We All Believe · March 11

The latest:

JR suggested that she should drop out of school, since Uncle Jesse on Fuller House did, and he turned out just fine lolol.

She's struggling w/Spanish and with Social Studies, but doing well in everything else. And she can speak Spanish fairly well, but has trouble with the spelling and the tenses, which seems like an easy fix.

She can definitely do it, it's just an effort thing.

She had a long talk with her mom about doing better and trying harder. We'll see what happens.

No phone or iPad for two weeks.

Malroth · March 12

sounds about like what we are dealing with right now

HughFreakingDillon · March 12

Dad of two teen girls, 15 and 18.

15 was always a superstar. This year she’s been faltering a bit. Doesn’t care as much about school or home responsibilities. We have always had screen limits, so our issue is more of a social vs responsibility issue. It’s a very nornal teenage thing, testing the limits and wanting freedom but not the responsibility that comes with it. Calm frank discussion is all that can really get through. Over and over again. Yelling happens, but isn’t sustainable, especially if you want a decent relationship with them.

Get_Right · March 12

IMHO they need to be educated on the consequences of their actions or inaction. My 16 year old daughter basically half assed it through middle school and the first two years of high school. Something clicked as a junior. Even got a job. Without us being over demanding parents. We do not push her, we simply say if you do not do your work, here are you options. Mom yells, but I do not. Im her rock. How the heck will I pay for college when she gets accepted to a good private school that can be 100K per year? Good problems to have.

Loujoe · March 14

Merit scholarships, negotiate pray borrow $$.
Good point. One hs teacher said it's better to let them fall on their face in hs and learn from it.
No real easy answer.

Kind of feel like i was pushed to get through school as a kid. Did it. Not using any of it now. Just the experience of it all I guess.
If I bailed and went right into the work force may have been better off. Who knows!

Any advice on how to motivate an adult!

No records til you get your sh.t done.

Good luck with it all and hope you and your best friend enjoy the ride. They grow fast and none of this will matter.
My 2 cents.

Get_Right · March 15

I was never really pushed as kid when it came to education. Somehow, I managed to have an average GPA and totally average SAT scores. It was the college interview that got me into Syracuse University. The dean of admissions literally stamped my application "accepted" right in front of me at the end of the interview. Let them grow, put them in the best possible environment, and good things will happen. I am excited and scared about where my daughter will end up. She might be biased since wearing orange onesies from birth. Get in and we will figure out the options.

GlowGirl · March 15

Get_Right said:

I was never really pushed as kid when it came to education. Somehow, I managed to have an average GPA and totally average SAT scores. It was the college interview that got me into Syracuse University. The dean of admissions literally stamped my application "accepted" right in front of me at the end of the interview. Let them grow, put them in the best possible environment, and good things will happen. I am excited and scared about where my daughter will end up. She might be biased since wearing orange onesies from birth. Get in and we will figure out the options.

My sister went to Syracuse and her daughter is graduating from there in May. So hopefully, your daughter will follow in your footsteps as well.

Get_Right · March 15

GlowGirl said:

Get_Right said:

I was never really pushed as kid when it came to education. Somehow, I managed to have an average GPA and totally average SAT scores. It was the college interview that got me into Syracuse University. The dean of admissions literally stamped my application "accepted" right in front of me at the end of the interview. Let them grow, put them in the best possible environment, and good things will happen. I am excited and scared about where my daughter will end up. She might be biased since wearing orange onesies from birth. Get in and we will figure out the options.

My sister went to Syracuse and her daughter is graduating from there in May. So hopefully, your daughter will follow in your footsteps as well.

Thank you! I loved it there. And somehow managed to get a great education. It would be a dad's dream to have a child go there.

tempo_n_groove · March 18

I am following this as I am fairly interested in what kids get motivated from.

My GF is a teacher in a school that does not take their phones away so she has little to no classroom participation. They are always on their phones.

Screentime is a direct result of kids not caring about school as far as I can see. The instant gratification is like a drug...

MayDay10 · March 18

Im not sure at that age, my oldest is about to turn 12.

He is a pretty good student. Super smart, makes high honor roll easily but at times has a history of rushing through his work, (still) makes sloppy mistakes, and also doesnt always apply himself. But he does really well when a topic or assignment is engaging to him. He got accepted into and is going to a top notch private school next year and beyond who tailor to and engage their students (he also gets hockey practice during school every day). Dangling that school for a few years as a carrot helped motivate him.

I also have emphasized over the years the concept of money, financial freedom, and career. I think that has been a big factor. He realizes that adulthood comes on like a sack of bricks, and in order to live comfortably, work and results need to happen now. He even wants to start an investment account for mutual funds.

tempo_n_groove · March 18

MayDay10 said:

Im not sure at that age, my oldest is about to turn 12.

He is a pretty good student. Super smart, makes high honor roll easily but at times has a history of rushing through his work, (still) makes sloppy mistakes, and also doesnt always apply himself. But he does really well when a topic or assignment is engaging to him. He got accepted into and is going to a top notch private school next year and beyond who tailor to and engage their students (he also gets hockey practice during school every day). Dangling that school for a few years as a carrot helped motivate him.

I also have emphasized over the years the concept of money, financial freedom, and career. I think that has been a big factor. He realizes that adulthood comes on like a sack of bricks, and in order to live comfortably, work and results need to happen now. He even wants to start an investment account for mutual funds.

Whats his screen time like?

HughFreakingDillon · March 18

tempo_n_groove said:

I am following this as I am fairly interested in what kids get motivated from.

My GF is a teacher in a school that does not take their phones away so she has little to no classroom participation. They are always on their phones.

Screentime is a direct result of kids not caring about school as far as I can see. The instant gratification is like a drug...

I would suggest not caring about school is a direct result of screen time.

Get_Right · March 18

The reality is that HS teenagers are addicted to their phones. All you can do is tell them when there is a right time to put it down. They may listen, or they may not. I am guilty of buying new phones for my kids. I think taking away the phones or limiting screen time just makes them mad. Teach them the balance and the priorities. Get your work done. Then do what you like, you will enjoy it more if you are not worried about a test or an assignment. My daughter is a 3.8 HS student but spends 8+ hrs a day on her phone. The phones are a big part of their lives. Get your stuff done and I will not put pressure on you. That is the message. And to @MayDay10 personal finance should be a requirement in HS.

HughFreakingDillon · March 18

it just sucks, watching them waste away on a screen. I get it, it's like our parents watching us play Super Mario 3 for hours on end. But that wasn't ALL we did. We did that some days, other days we didn't touch it. My oldest wastes her entire life on her phone. Even in the summer. Seriously. It sucks. And we don't know what to do.

Get_Right · March 18

HughFreakingDillon said:

it just sucks, watching them waste away on a screen. I get it, it's like our parents watching us play Super Mario 3 for hours on end. But that wasn't ALL we did. We did that some days, other days we didn't touch it. My oldest wastes her entire life on her phone. Even in the summer. Seriously. It sucks. And we don't know what to do.

With my daughter, I just tell her you can stay on your phone all you want. AFTER you get this that and the other thing done. And its important they do not post personal information. I am more afraid of predators than anything she does or the amount of time she spends on the phone.

brianlux · March 18

Among a number of other things I've done, I was a teacher for awhile- two years with a 5/6th grade combo, 3 years subbing mostly middle school kids, and two years at the community college level. I'm a big fan of education and have something like 200 units of college course under my belt.

But that said, I also don't believe school is for everyone. I have a nephew who dropped out of high school but is a bright and ambitious kid. He was smart enough and skilled enough at various hands-on jobs to have enabled himself to buy his first house while in his early 20s (a much nicer house than I'll ever own). I also have a step daughter who took only a few part-time semesters of college courses and nearly flunked out-- so she dropped out. But she is bright and ambitious. Without a degree, she became the head of a city's chamber of commerce and then went on to become the only person I know of who is a successful paralegal without a college degree of any kind.

So my thinking is that, for kids who hate school, it's more important to focus on the things they enjoy doing that could lead to them finding job satisfaction when they are out of school. Sometimes trade schools with a great emphasis on hands-on than book learning are a better way to go. I only see two reasons for being interested in regular schooling: either because a person is interested in and enjoys learning via studies, or is OK with slogging through schools having the main function of training punctual worker bees (which is what most schools are about.)

That's my two cents.

Get_Right · March 18

brianlux said:

Among a number of other things I've done, I was a teacher for awhile- two years with a 5/6th grade combo, 3 years subbing mostly middle school kids, and two years at the community college level. I'm a big fan of education and have something like 200 units of college course under my belt.
But that said, I also don't believe school is for everyone. I have a nephew who dropped out of high school but is a bright and ambitious kid. He was smart enough and skilled enough at various hands-on jobs to have enabled himself to buy his first house while in his early 20s (a much nicer house than I'll ever own). I also have a step daughter who took only a few part-time semesters of college courses and nearly flunked out-- so she dropped out. But she is bright and ambitious. Without a degree, she became the head of a city's chamber of commerce and then went on to become the only person I know of who is a successful paralegal without a college degree of any kind.

So my thinking is that, for kids who hate school, it's more important to focus on the things they enjoy doing that could lead to them finding job satisfaction when they are out of school. Sometimes trade schools with a great emphasis on hands-on than book learning are a better way to go. I only see two reasons for being interested in regular schooling: either because a person is interested in and enjoys learning via studies, or is OK with slogging through schools having the main function of training punctual worker bees (which is what most schools are about.)

That's my two cents.

I tell this story all the time. The most successful person I have ever known that did not go to college. Right out of high school, he was a plumber apprentice, then a full time plumber, then opened a plumbing supply company. He makes big dollars every year. College does not always equate to making a living or being happy at your job.

brianlux · March 18

Get_Right said:

brianlux said:

Among a number of other things I've done, I was a teacher for awhile- two years with a 5/6th grade combo, 3 years subbing mostly middle school kids, and two years at the community college level. I'm a big fan of education and have something like 200 units of college course under my belt.
But that said, I also don't believe school is for everyone. I have a nephew who dropped out of high school but is a bright and ambitious kid. He was smart enough and skilled enough at various hands-on jobs to have enabled himself to buy his first house while in his early 20s (a much nicer house than I'll ever own). I also have a step daughter who took only a few part-time semesters of college courses and nearly flunked out-- so she dropped out. But she is bright and ambitious. Without a degree, she became the head of a city's chamber of commerce and then went on to become the only person I know of who is a successful paralegal without a college degree of any kind.

So my thinking is that, for kids who hate school, it's more important to focus on the things they enjoy doing that could lead to them finding job satisfaction when they are out of school. Sometimes trade schools with a great emphasis on hands-on than book learning are a better way to go. I only see two reasons for being interested in regular schooling: either because a person is interested in and enjoys learning via studies, or is OK with slogging through schools having the main function of training punctual worker bees (which is what most schools are about.)

That's my two cents.

I tell this story all the time. The most successful person I have ever known that did not go to college. Right out of high school, he was a plumber apprentice, then a full time plumber, then opened a plumbing supply company. He makes big dollars every year. College does not always equate to making a living or being happy at your job.

Right!

Of course, college does have it's place, it does increase ones chances of finding employment, but it's one road, not the only road.

HughFreakingDillon · March 20

Get_Right said:

brianlux said:

Among a number of other things I've done, I was a teacher for awhile- two years with a 5/6th grade combo, 3 years subbing mostly middle school kids, and two years at the community college level. I'm a big fan of education and have something like 200 units of college course under my belt.
But that said, I also don't believe school is for everyone. I have a nephew who dropped out of high school but is a bright and ambitious kid. He was smart enough and skilled enough at various hands-on jobs to have enabled himself to buy his first house while in his early 20s (a much nicer house than I'll ever own). I also have a step daughter who took only a few part-time semesters of college courses and nearly flunked out-- so she dropped out. But she is bright and ambitious. Without a degree, she became the head of a city's chamber of commerce and then went on to become the only person I know of who is a successful paralegal without a college degree of any kind.

So my thinking is that, for kids who hate school, it's more important to focus on the things they enjoy doing that could lead to them finding job satisfaction when they are out of school. Sometimes trade schools with a great emphasis on hands-on than book learning are a better way to go. I only see two reasons for being interested in regular schooling: either because a person is interested in and enjoys learning via studies, or is OK with slogging through schools having the main function of training punctual worker bees (which is what most schools are about.)

That's my two cents.

I tell this story all the time. The most successful person I have ever known that did not go to college. Right out of high school, he was a plumber apprentice, then a full time plumber, then opened a plumbing supply company. He makes big dollars every year. College does not always equate to making a living or being happy at your job.

two of the biggest high school clowns I went to school with: one is now the director of radiology at a hospital on caymen islands, the other is a university professor. While they struggled in HS, they found their feet when they were learning something they wanted to learn.

We All Believe · March 20

I did very, very well in grammar school and high school. College was a different story. Lol I wonder if I should tell JR that I:

- Failed out of college after a year and a half (but hustled to make those classes up and graduated on time).
- Switched majors from math to history to psychology, only to end up working in finance for the past 25 years.

I can hear the response now:

"You see Uncle A? You failed out of college and you're a success! College is for suckers."

PJ_Soul · March 22

Get_Right said:

brianlux said:

Among a number of other things I've done, I was a teacher for awhile- two years with a 5/6th grade combo, 3 years subbing mostly middle school kids, and two years at the community college level. I'm a big fan of education and have something like 200 units of college course under my belt.
But that said, I also don't believe school is for everyone. I have a nephew who dropped out of high school but is a bright and ambitious kid. He was smart enough and skilled enough at various hands-on jobs to have enabled himself to buy his first house while in his early 20s (a much nicer house than I'll ever own). I also have a step daughter who took only a few part-time semesters of college courses and nearly flunked out-- so she dropped out. But she is bright and ambitious. Without a degree, she became the head of a city's chamber of commerce and then went on to become the only person I know of who is a successful paralegal without a college degree of any kind.

So my thinking is that, for kids who hate school, it's more important to focus on the things they enjoy doing that could lead to them finding job satisfaction when they are out of school. Sometimes trade schools with a great emphasis on hands-on than book learning are a better way to go. I only see two reasons for being interested in regular schooling: either because a person is interested in and enjoys learning via studies, or is OK with slogging through schools having the main function of training punctual worker bees (which is what most schools are about.)

That's my two cents.

I tell this story all the time. The most successful person I have ever known that did not go to college. Right out of high school, he was a plumber apprentice, then a full time plumber, then opened a plumbing supply company. He makes big dollars every year. College does not always equate to making a living or being happy at your job.

No, it definitely doesn't, but it is still a fact that having a good education is stongly correlated with greater happiness and success.

Get_Right · March 22

Agreed. I also think it is important they get out of the house after high school! No matter what your grades or SAT scores are there is a school somewhere. I am also a fan of a liberal arts education. I think it makes you a more well rounded person, even if it does not translate to a job right away. There is something for everyone out there. Parents can put pressure on teens to excel, pick a career, and get into the best college to follow that path. I just tell my kids to work hard, do the best they can, and we will take it from there.

HughFreakingDillon · March 22

well I am officially training to become an exorcist. My 18 yo, when I told her we're planning on turning off the wifi and data at night, before I even finished my sentence, sat up in bed, looked me dead in the eyes, with a face that could only resemble that a of demon possessed, growled from the depths of hell "GO AHEAD AND DO IT". I am legitimately dealing with an addict here.

Get_Right · March 22

Personally, I feel that you cannot hide or restrict the devices. They find ways around it. Unfortunately that is the culture they live in. What you can do is teach them that there are times to put them down. There are times when your phone belongs in your pocket on silent. No phones during meals, especially if I am taking you out. No texting while we are talking. That is what they need to learn. Teach them balance and respect.

HughFreakingDillon · March 23

Every situation is different. We have tried it all. They do recognize no phones in certain situations, like dinner. But it's not quite as easy as you're making it out to be or as dismissive. it's a major problem and I'm not just going to throw my hands up and say "it's the culture".

There are ways we can restrict. Turning off the wifi and data is one. And it is not circumventable. That's our next step.

Get_Right · March 23

I agree and am only speaking to how we handle the issue. Down here in NY there is WiFi everywhere and they figure it out. Tried screen time and they figured out how to get around it. They need laptops for school so they figure out how to use the laptop if you shut down the phone. They can even get old phones from friends at school (yes this happened) or a short term phone from a convenience store (this also happened). Eventually it is up to them to make smart decisions. Devices and social media are a huge part of a teenagers life these days. Teach them to navigate it. All I see is kids on the phones. All the time. Even when hanging out together. Not sure a dad can change that with tough love, but we can teach them to be smart about it.

Edit: And in my experience, it is tougher with girls.

Attaway77 · March 23

N/A

Motivating an adolescent child in school?

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