#47 - Musk/trump/Vance

mrussel1 said:

Evel K said:

josevolution said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

I've been hesitant to post some thoughts I've had recently because we're really early in the most dysfunctional period in American history, but I'm curious as to what you some of you think about this, so here goes:

I think that if Harris had won the election, her voters would have responded with joy, happiness, celebration, etc.  I don't get the feeling that way about the MAGA fans.  They seem either subdued, snarky/troll like, and often angry- not anger like the disappointment type anger we Harris voters feel, but just the usual mean bully style anger.  Part of that, I suppose, is that's just how some people are normally. But my guess is that part of it is because I think deep down, MAGA fans know they have fucked up themselves (as well as everybody else)by electing the Felon into office.  There's a lot being said about how the felon and his pals have made promises they cannot and don't intend to keep, and I think a lot of MAGAs know that.  OOOPS, too late!  

For those of us who love democracy and freedom from tyranny, it's important to keep this point in the foreground and made recognizable because it's almost blatantly evident and those voters need to own it.

I know this will irritate several people here, but I will try to ignore their responses and answer your question. 

First, it's the loudest people we see and remember. Half of the voting population voted for trump, so it's safe to assume they represent roughly half the country (same with Harris). I don't see half the country acting like how you described. Half are not snarky, rude, angry, etc. Thats just the 5% (or whatever percent you want to give it) that make their voices the loudest.

There are messed up things all around us, but I see most people, on both sides, as generally good. I keep hearing about J6 and a list of bad or annoying things republican voters have done. But I can list the same things about groups who lean left. Did we forget the "fiery but peaceful" riots? Burning down police buildings, fast food chains and even small businesses. Several police were ambushed and murdered, and sometimes to the cheers of witnesses. And those same police had groups protesting at the hospital that were trying to save their lives, chanting to let the pigs die.
Those are horrible people in my opinion. But I also know they don't represent the majority of the groups they are associated with either. 
What I find interesting is everything the right does seems to get replayed. But the 2020 riots seem all but forgotten. Maybe someone has brought it up and I missed it, but I haven't heard anyone talk about how FEMA had directed volunteers to skip trump houses for hurricane relief. If that doesn't fit the same behavior you're talking about, then I don't know what does. But again, that does not represent the majority of people who voted against trump. Most people are generally good. They have different opinions on what will get the country back on top. Maybe they don't follow the news and are less aware. Maybe they have different filters on what they believe is true or not. Whatever the reason for how they voted. But our perceptions and stereotypes of voters on both sides only reflect the loudest, and usually most obnoxious, of that group. At the core this country is still filled with good people who want to do the right thing. 

What’s the equivalent of Jan 6th done by liberal woke democrats? I mean in my opinion there’s nothing that compares to that event

I'm sorry, were they wearing Biden 2020 hats?  Anarchists don't vote.  Jan 6th was chock full of MAGA gear specifically to support Trump.  Anarchists don't support corporate democrats.  

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

tbergs said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

I've been hesitant to post some thoughts I've had recently because we're really early in the most dysfunctional period in American history, but I'm curious as to what you some of you think about this, so here goes:

I think that if Harris had won the election, her voters would have responded with joy, happiness, celebration, etc.  I don't get the feeling that way about the MAGA fans.  They seem either subdued, snarky/troll like, and often angry- not anger like the disappointment type anger we Harris voters feel, but just the usual mean bully style anger.  Part of that, I suppose, is that's just how some people are normally. But my guess is that part of it is because I think deep down, MAGA fans know they have fucked up themselves (as well as everybody else)by electing the Felon into office.  There's a lot being said about how the felon and his pals have made promises they cannot and don't intend to keep, and I think a lot of MAGAs know that.  OOOPS, too late!  

For those of us who love democracy and freedom from tyranny, it's important to keep this point in the foreground and made recognizable because it's almost blatantly evident and those voters need to own it.

I know this will irritate several people here, but I will try to ignore their responses and answer your question. 

First, it's the loudest people we see and remember. Half of the voting population voted for trump, so it's safe to assume they represent roughly half the country (same with Harris). I don't see half the country acting like how you described. Half are not snarky, rude, angry, etc. Thats just the 5% (or whatever percent you want to give it) that make their voices the loudest.

There are messed up things all around us, but I see most people, on both sides, as generally good. I keep hearing about J6 and a list of bad or annoying things republican voters have done. But I can list the same things about groups who lean left. Did we forget the "fiery but peaceful" riots? Burning down police buildings, fast food chains and even small businesses. Several police were ambushed and murdered, and sometimes to the cheers of witnesses. And those same police had groups protesting at the hospital that were trying to save their lives, chanting to let the pigs die.
Those are horrible people in my opinion. But I also know they don't represent the majority of the groups they are associated with either. 
What I find interesting is everything the right does seems to get replayed. But the 2020 riots seem all but forgotten. Maybe someone has brought it up and I missed it, but I haven't heard anyone talk about how FEMA had directed volunteers to skip trump houses for hurricane relief. If that doesn't fit the same behavior you're talking about, then I don't know what does. But again, that does not represent the majority of people who voted against trump. Most people are generally good. They have different opinions on what will get the country back on top. Maybe they don't follow the news and are less aware. Maybe they have different filters on what they believe is true or not. Whatever the reason for how they voted. But our perceptions and stereotypes of voters on both sides only reflect the loudest, and usually most obnoxious, of that group. At the core this country is still filled with good people who want to do the right thing. 

Thanks for the response on this Mace. You put a lot in here, but I'm just going to focus on the FEMA example. In that instance, a single employee was at fault, not FEMA in general, and ultimately fired. No prominent, or even reasonable person, on the dems side is defending it. Seems like it was handled appropriately. On the other hand, many of the things you're listing, people, including the incoming president, still to this day defend or downplay. 

I agree with you here. She said it was common practice and she was directed by her supervisors, she was just the one who left a paper trail. But I'm not convinced of that yet.
But my point is the horrible things that happen don't typically represent the majority. Most FEMA people want to help everyone, Just like most registered republicans are not happy with what happened on J6. They don't want protestors storming the capitol building and trashing the place. It was a relatively small number. I know it was a few thousand I believe, but I say relatively small compared to the 75 million who voted for trump who want to see that.

Most republicans are fine with J6. Only 1/3rd strongly disapprove, and 2/3rds support the pardons. The party’s rotten from the inside and the only way forward is widespread recognition of this. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/jan-6-opinion-poll-republican-disapproval-wanes-2024-01-06/

brianlux said:

I've been hesitant to post some thoughts I've had recently because we're really early in the most dysfunctional period in American history, but I'm curious as to what you some of you think about this, so here goes:

I think that if Harris had won the election, her voters would have responded with joy, happiness, celebration, etc.  I don't get the feeling that way about the MAGA fans.  They seem either subdued, snarky/troll like, and often angry- not anger like the disappointment type anger we Harris voters feel, but just the usual mean bully style anger.  Part of that, I suppose, is that's just how some people are normally. But my guess is that part of it is because I think deep down, MAGA fans know they have fucked up themselves (as well as everybody else)by electing the Felon into office.  There's a lot being said about how the felon and his pals have made promises they cannot and don't intend to keep, and I think a lot of MAGAs know that.  OOOPS, too late!  

For those of us who love democracy and freedom from tyranny, it's important to keep this point in the foreground and made recognizable because it's almost blatantly evident and those voters need to own it.

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

tbergs said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

I've been hesitant to post some thoughts I've had recently because we're really early in the most dysfunctional period in American history, but I'm curious as to what you some of you think about this, so here goes:

I think that if Harris had won the election, her voters would have responded with joy, happiness, celebration, etc.  I don't get the feeling that way about the MAGA fans.  They seem either subdued, snarky/troll like, and often angry- not anger like the disappointment type anger we Harris voters feel, but just the usual mean bully style anger.  Part of that, I suppose, is that's just how some people are normally. But my guess is that part of it is because I think deep down, MAGA fans know they have fucked up themselves (as well as everybody else)by electing the Felon into office.  There's a lot being said about how the felon and his pals have made promises they cannot and don't intend to keep, and I think a lot of MAGAs know that.  OOOPS, too late!  

For those of us who love democracy and freedom from tyranny, it's important to keep this point in the foreground and made recognizable because it's almost blatantly evident and those voters need to own it.

I know this will irritate several people here, but I will try to ignore their responses and answer your question. 

First, it's the loudest people we see and remember. Half of the voting population voted for trump, so it's safe to assume they represent roughly half the country (same with Harris). I don't see half the country acting like how you described. Half are not snarky, rude, angry, etc. Thats just the 5% (or whatever percent you want to give it) that make their voices the loudest.

There are messed up things all around us, but I see most people, on both sides, as generally good. I keep hearing about J6 and a list of bad or annoying things republican voters have done. But I can list the same things about groups who lean left. Did we forget the "fiery but peaceful" riots? Burning down police buildings, fast food chains and even small businesses. Several police were ambushed and murdered, and sometimes to the cheers of witnesses. And those same police had groups protesting at the hospital that were trying to save their lives, chanting to let the pigs die.
Those are horrible people in my opinion. But I also know they don't represent the majority of the groups they are associated with either. 
What I find interesting is everything the right does seems to get replayed. But the 2020 riots seem all but forgotten. Maybe someone has brought it up and I missed it, but I haven't heard anyone talk about how FEMA had directed volunteers to skip trump houses for hurricane relief. If that doesn't fit the same behavior you're talking about, then I don't know what does. But again, that does not represent the majority of people who voted against trump. Most people are generally good. They have different opinions on what will get the country back on top. Maybe they don't follow the news and are less aware. Maybe they have different filters on what they believe is true or not. Whatever the reason for how they voted. But our perceptions and stereotypes of voters on both sides only reflect the loudest, and usually most obnoxious, of that group. At the core this country is still filled with good people who want to do the right thing. 

Thanks for the response on this Mace. You put a lot in here, but I'm just going to focus on the FEMA example. In that instance, a single employee was at fault, not FEMA in general, and ultimately fired. No prominent, or even reasonable person, on the dems side is defending it. Seems like it was handled appropriately. On the other hand, many of the things you're listing, people, including the incoming president, still to this day defend or downplay. 

I agree with you here. She said it was common practice and she was directed by her supervisors, she was just the one who left a paper trail. But I'm not convinced of that yet.
But my point is the horrible things that happen don't typically represent the majority. Most FEMA people want to help everyone, Just like most registered republicans are not happy with what happened on J6. They don't want protestors storming the capitol building and trashing the place. It was a relatively small number. I know it was a few thousand I believe, but I say relatively small compared to the 75 million who voted for trump who want to see that.

Most republicans are fine with J6. Only 1/3rd strongly disapprove, and 2/3rds support the pardons. The party’s rotten from the inside and the only way forward is widespread recognition of this. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/jan-6-opinion-poll-republican-disapproval-wanes-2024-01-06/

2/3 still disagree, that's not most being fine. 1/3 "strongly" disagree, 1/3 disagree, and 1/3 approve. That 1/3 approving is larger than I thought it was, but it's gone up since 2021.

mrussel1 said:

The comparison is silly. 

mrussel1 said:

Evel K said:

mrussel1 said:

Evel K said:

josevolution said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

I've been hesitant to post some thoughts I've had recently because we're really early in the most dysfunctional period in American history, but I'm curious as to what you some of you think about this, so here goes:

I think that if Harris had won the election, her voters would have responded with joy, happiness, celebration, etc.  I don't get the feeling that way about the MAGA fans.  They seem either subdued, snarky/troll like, and often angry- not anger like the disappointment type anger we Harris voters feel, but just the usual mean bully style anger.  Part of that, I suppose, is that's just how some people are normally. But my guess is that part of it is because I think deep down, MAGA fans know they have fucked up themselves (as well as everybody else)by electing the Felon into office.  There's a lot being said about how the felon and his pals have made promises they cannot and don't intend to keep, and I think a lot of MAGAs know that.  OOOPS, too late!  

For those of us who love democracy and freedom from tyranny, it's important to keep this point in the foreground and made recognizable because it's almost blatantly evident and those voters need to own it.

I know this will irritate several people here, but I will try to ignore their responses and answer your question. 

First, it's the loudest people we see and remember. Half of the voting population voted for trump, so it's safe to assume they represent roughly half the country (same with Harris). I don't see half the country acting like how you described. Half are not snarky, rude, angry, etc. Thats just the 5% (or whatever percent you want to give it) that make their voices the loudest.

There are messed up things all around us, but I see most people, on both sides, as generally good. I keep hearing about J6 and a list of bad or annoying things republican voters have done. But I can list the same things about groups who lean left. Did we forget the "fiery but peaceful" riots? Burning down police buildings, fast food chains and even small businesses. Several police were ambushed and murdered, and sometimes to the cheers of witnesses. And those same police had groups protesting at the hospital that were trying to save their lives, chanting to let the pigs die.
Those are horrible people in my opinion. But I also know they don't represent the majority of the groups they are associated with either. 
What I find interesting is everything the right does seems to get replayed. But the 2020 riots seem all but forgotten. Maybe someone has brought it up and I missed it, but I haven't heard anyone talk about how FEMA had directed volunteers to skip trump houses for hurricane relief. If that doesn't fit the same behavior you're talking about, then I don't know what does. But again, that does not represent the majority of people who voted against trump. Most people are generally good. They have different opinions on what will get the country back on top. Maybe they don't follow the news and are less aware. Maybe they have different filters on what they believe is true or not. Whatever the reason for how they voted. But our perceptions and stereotypes of voters on both sides only reflect the loudest, and usually most obnoxious, of that group. At the core this country is still filled with good people who want to do the right thing. 

What’s the equivalent of Jan 6th done by liberal woke democrats? I mean in my opinion there’s nothing that compares to that event

I'm sorry, were they wearing Biden 2020 hats?  Anarchists don't vote.  Jan 6th was chock full of MAGA gear specifically to support Trump.  Anarchists don't support corporate democrats.  

The equivalent of Jan. 6th by liberal woke Democrats. The original poster didn't say anything about Joe Biden. 

There’s no evidence that Portland rioters who committed crimes either vote or who they vote for. There is ample evidence showing that J6th rioters voted for Trump. Second, was there a national Democrat stirring them up?  No. There was in DC on J6. Give me a break. The comparison is silly. 

Jan 6th riot was for a specific person and that person was Trump. 

mrussel1 said:

Evel K said:

mrussel1 said:

Evel K said:

josevolution said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

I've been hesitant to post some thoughts I've had recently because we're really early in the most dysfunctional period in American history, but I'm curious as to what you some of you think about this, so here goes:

I think that if Harris had won the election, her voters would have responded with joy, happiness, celebration, etc.  I don't get the feeling that way about the MAGA fans.  They seem either subdued, snarky/troll like, and often angry- not anger like the disappointment type anger we Harris voters feel, but just the usual mean bully style anger.  Part of that, I suppose, is that's just how some people are normally. But my guess is that part of it is because I think deep down, MAGA fans know they have fucked up themselves (as well as everybody else)by electing the Felon into office.  There's a lot being said about how the felon and his pals have made promises they cannot and don't intend to keep, and I think a lot of MAGAs know that.  OOOPS, too late!  

For those of us who love democracy and freedom from tyranny, it's important to keep this point in the foreground and made recognizable because it's almost blatantly evident and those voters need to own it.

I know this will irritate several people here, but I will try to ignore their responses and answer your question. 

First, it's the loudest people we see and remember. Half of the voting population voted for trump, so it's safe to assume they represent roughly half the country (same with Harris). I don't see half the country acting like how you described. Half are not snarky, rude, angry, etc. Thats just the 5% (or whatever percent you want to give it) that make their voices the loudest.

There are messed up things all around us, but I see most people, on both sides, as generally good. I keep hearing about J6 and a list of bad or annoying things republican voters have done. But I can list the same things about groups who lean left. Did we forget the "fiery but peaceful" riots? Burning down police buildings, fast food chains and even small businesses. Several police were ambushed and murdered, and sometimes to the cheers of witnesses. And those same police had groups protesting at the hospital that were trying to save their lives, chanting to let the pigs die.
Those are horrible people in my opinion. But I also know they don't represent the majority of the groups they are associated with either. 
What I find interesting is everything the right does seems to get replayed. But the 2020 riots seem all but forgotten. Maybe someone has brought it up and I missed it, but I haven't heard anyone talk about how FEMA had directed volunteers to skip trump houses for hurricane relief. If that doesn't fit the same behavior you're talking about, then I don't know what does. But again, that does not represent the majority of people who voted against trump. Most people are generally good. They have different opinions on what will get the country back on top. Maybe they don't follow the news and are less aware. Maybe they have different filters on what they believe is true or not. Whatever the reason for how they voted. But our perceptions and stereotypes of voters on both sides only reflect the loudest, and usually most obnoxious, of that group. At the core this country is still filled with good people who want to do the right thing. 

What’s the equivalent of Jan 6th done by liberal woke democrats? I mean in my opinion there’s nothing that compares to that event

I'm sorry, were they wearing Biden 2020 hats?  Anarchists don't vote.  Jan 6th was chock full of MAGA gear specifically to support Trump.  Anarchists don't support corporate democrats.  

The equivalent of Jan. 6th by liberal woke Democrats. The original poster didn't say anything about Joe Biden. 

There’s no evidence that Portland rioters who committed crimes either vote or who they vote for. There is ample evidence showing that J6th rioters voted for Trump. Second, was there a national Democrat stirring them up?  No. There was in DC on J6. Give me a break. The comparison is silly. 

Jan 6th riot was for a specific person and that person was Trump. 

brianlux said:

Wait.  What?  Democrats had a had in causing what happened on January 6th, 2021?  Just when you think you've heard it all.

:ohstop: