Keeping Men out of Women's Sports
Comments
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brianlux said:lastexitlondon said:Kids should be nowhere near this.
The internet is solely to blame. Before we had that this wasn't an issue.
It annoys me as a parent. Be what you want but don't start pushing it on kids.When I was a toddler, I had a doll. My parents later told me I wanted a doll, so they gave me a doll. You know, your basic everyday 1950s girl doll. They didn't assume I wanted to be a girl instead of a boy, or consider that I should be gender neutral (I'm not even sure what that is, but it has to be mighty rare, right?), or worried that I would grow up to be gay, or gave it any thought along those lines at all. I was a little boy with a doll. BFD! Did it mean anything? No! Did I turn out trans, gay, straight, bi, tri (try anything)? Irrelevant! I am what I am because my parents didn't make a big deal about this stuff when I was a kid. I got to be a kid. A child. Lucky me! Why, at that age, would anyone waste time thinking about anything beyond that as being relevant (unless it was something obvious like being a hermaphrodite- not a bad thing, but not common)? It's not relevant to a child. Just let kids be kids and then later, lots later, let them grow up to be what they are supposed to be. And then accept that and love them.
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -0 -
Spunkie said:Seriously I was going to look up the DSM-5 about gender dysmorphia or what the heck the psychologists use for terminology because last exit London's post made me think that we don't need a third category we have special Olympics0
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OnWis97 said:curmudgeoness said:mickeyrat said:some sports differ from others. i e. physicality vs skill etc. whats considered a contact sport vs non. Soccer IS a contact sport.I think its a different question as it relates to school age kids competing vs young adult/adult. as well as prepubescent vs pubescent age groups.not having kids I dont have skin in the game as it were. but I wonder if hormone level testing is appropriate/needed?That happens in running -- the highest-profile case being that of Caster Semenya. Semenya is not trans, rather she is intersex, with typical male testosterone levels. From Wikipedia: <<In 2019, new World Athletics rules came into force preventing athletes like Semenya with certain disorders of sex development (DSDs) from participating in 400m, 800m, and 1500m events in the female classification, unless they take medication to suppress their testosterone levels.>> Sex-based differences give males the greatest advantage at shorter distances, hence the ban on Semenya and several other 800M runners.Nikki Hiltz is a non-binary runner who will represent the US at the Olympics -- but Hiltz is biologically female, competing in women's events.I believe that trans people should be accorded the same dignity and respect as everyone else, and they should be able to live their lives free of harassment. But nobody has a right to participate in high-level sports or go to the Olympics. Does it suck to want to compete in, say, D1 swimming while living your authentic life as a trans woman and be told you can't swim on the women's team? I'm sure it does, and I'm sympathetic to those feelings of frustration and disappointment. It also sucked when my child with special needs had few options for group activities because nobody wanted to deal with their issues.I wonder, if we attempt to reinforce the concepts of sex vs. gender, would that help? Biological sex refers to the set of chromosomes you were born with -- XX, XY, or in some cases (such as Caster Semenya), XYY or XO. Gender is a social construct: Are you a man or a woman? Neither? Both? Unsure? You can exercise choice as to how you live your life and how you identify; transitioning to a gender that does not correspond to your biological sex doesn't change your chromosomal makeup.So, if we referred to "males' swimming" and "females' swimming," would that help a little? Maybe?
I hate this issue because it's often used as the gateway to all things anti-trans. (General talk about the issues and then..."what about sports.") I also want everyone to be able to compete and we're not going to have a TransNBA alongside the WNBA and NBA. And we're not going to have a third gender sex in the Olympics. And while most people, regardless sex / gender, will never be able to compete at such high levels, youth and school sports are prevalent in the lives of most young people. And it's not fair in many sports for a genetic male to compete with genetic females. Sure, sometimes I miss the days when we'd say "life isn't always fair" but now we're talking about potential safety concerns, as well. So I begrudgingly understand the angle on this one. That all said, I hate the argumentative doors this opens and I fear a future where participants in girls sports have to be examined by the Dr. Nassers of the world to be "certified female."hippiemom = goodness0 -
Vitalogensia said:OP, what do you mean by "interacted with"? I'm assuming that means something like a forward and goalie running into each other while going for a header or something similar.I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef
Animals were hiding behind the Coral
Except for little Turtle
I could swear he's trying to talk to me
Gurgle Gurgle0 -
Think of the hormones and growth a boy of 14 has
It's just plain wrong up mix them with girls of that or any age
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -0 -
I think it also would help to inject facts into the conversation. I'm currently a registered voter in a deep red state (we move a lot), where a big fuss is being made about trans athletes participating in school sports, instituting bathroom bans in government buildings, etc. If I recall correctly, someone looked into how many students would be affected by the ban on transgender athletes' participation in girls' school sports, and the answer was: four. A big to-do was being made about keeping "our girls" safe from the "trans threat," and this epidemic of wokeness actually consisted of four young trans people.The rights of those four young people matter! But they don't constitute a threat or a wave or a trend. They are four people. There must be more humane ways to address the issue.With regard to the "Larry Nasser" comment, I hear you, and, ick. I've heard some local noises about local crackpot politicians wanting gender (sex) confirmation to be part of the physical examinations required for participation in school sports.That idea really doesn't sit well with me, at all. I am aware that elite athletes surrender a certain amount of bodily privacy when they reach a certain level (among the people first to approach a marathon winner at the finish line is the "chaperone" who will stay with them until they have produced a urine specimen under the chaperone's supervision; elite runners also can be randomly tested, which means that an official might show up at your door at any time with a sample bottle in hand). That's a crazy thing to do in youth club sports.I suppose "please create thoughtful, common-sense rules that protect the rights and well-being of all people involved" is a big ask of our current political leaders, but it would be nice if they tried.All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.0
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curmudgeoness said:I think it also would help to inject facts into the conversation. I'm currently a registered voter in a deep red state (we move a lot), where a big fuss is being made about trans athletes participating in school sports, instituting bathroom bans in government buildings, etc. If I recall correctly, someone looked into how many students would be affected by the ban on transgender athletes' participation in girls' school sports, and the answer was: four. A big to-do was being made about keeping "our girls" safe from the "trans threat," and this epidemic of wokeness actually consisted of four young trans people.The rights of those four young people matter! But they don't constitute a threat or a wave or a trend. They are four people. There must be more humane ways to address the issue.With regard to the "Larry Nasser" comment, I hear you, and, ick. I've heard some local noises about local crackpot politicians wanting gender (sex) confirmation to be part of the physical examinations required for participation in school sports.That idea really doesn't sit well with me, at all. I am aware that elite athletes surrender a certain amount of bodily privacy when they reach a certain level (among the people first to approach a marathon winner at the finish line is the "chaperone" who will stay with them until they have produced a urine specimen under the chaperone's supervision; elite runners also can be randomly tested, which means that an official might show up at your door at any time with a sample bottle in hand). That's a crazy thing to do in youth club sports.I suppose "please create thoughtful, common-sense rules that protect the rights and well-being of all people involved" is a big ask of our current political leaders, but it would be nice if they tried.0
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mace1229 said:curmudgeoness said:I think it also would help to inject facts into the conversation. I'm currently a registered voter in a deep red state (we move a lot), where a big fuss is being made about trans athletes participating in school sports, instituting bathroom bans in government buildings, etc. If I recall correctly, someone looked into how many students would be affected by the ban on transgender athletes' participation in girls' school sports, and the answer was: four. A big to-do was being made about keeping "our girls" safe from the "trans threat," and this epidemic of wokeness actually consisted of four young trans people.The rights of those four young people matter! But they don't constitute a threat or a wave or a trend. They are four people. There must be more humane ways to address the issue.With regard to the "Larry Nasser" comment, I hear you, and, ick. I've heard some local noises about local crackpot politicians wanting gender (sex) confirmation to be part of the physical examinations required for participation in school sports.That idea really doesn't sit well with me, at all. I am aware that elite athletes surrender a certain amount of bodily privacy when they reach a certain level (among the people first to approach a marathon winner at the finish line is the "chaperone" who will stay with them until they have produced a urine specimen under the chaperone's supervision; elite runners also can be randomly tested, which means that an official might show up at your door at any time with a sample bottle in hand). That's a crazy thing to do in youth club sports.I suppose "please create thoughtful, common-sense rules that protect the rights and well-being of all people involved" is a big ask of our current political leaders, but it would be nice if they tried.
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -0 -
lastexitlondon said:Kids should be nowhere near this.
The internet is solely to blame. Before we had that this wasn't an issue.
It annoys me as a parent. Be what you want but don't start pushing it on kids.
I think information is very important for fostering any kind of understanding.
I personally want my kid to understand the difference between sex and gender. I want her to know all of the facts on a scientific level. I want her to know the stats... I want her to know how and why trans people are amongst us as opposed to either her being ignorant to it or even worse being afraid of it. At what age should she be subjected to this.... . fantastic question... that I would generally leave to those who specialize in educating.
That said... when it comes to the 'pushing it on kids' I do want politics out of the schools which seems easier said than done. I've seen zero evidence that this is being pushed on kids here in Canada at least... but kids having an understanding of why and how people are different to me is important so she will be accepting and understanding as opposed to fearful and hating.Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx0 -
OnWis97 said:curmudgeoness said:mickeyrat said:some sports differ from others. i e. physicality vs skill etc. whats considered a contact sport vs non. Soccer IS a contact sport.I think its a different question as it relates to school age kids competing vs young adult/adult. as well as prepubescent vs pubescent age groups.not having kids I dont have skin in the game as it were. but I wonder if hormone level testing is appropriate/needed?That happens in running -- the highest-profile case being that of Caster Semenya. Semenya is not trans, rather she is intersex, with typical male testosterone levels. From Wikipedia: <<In 2019, new World Athletics rules came into force preventing athletes like Semenya with certain disorders of sex development (DSDs) from participating in 400m, 800m, and 1500m events in the female classification, unless they take medication to suppress their testosterone levels.>> Sex-based differences give males the greatest advantage at shorter distances, hence the ban on Semenya and several other 800M runners.Nikki Hiltz is a non-binary runner who will represent the US at the Olympics -- but Hiltz is biologically female, competing in women's events.I believe that trans people should be accorded the same dignity and respect as everyone else, and they should be able to live their lives free of harassment. But nobody has a right to participate in high-level sports or go to the Olympics. Does it suck to want to compete in, say, D1 swimming while living your authentic life as a trans woman and be told you can't swim on the women's team? I'm sure it does, and I'm sympathetic to those feelings of frustration and disappointment. It also sucked when my child with special needs had few options for group activities because nobody wanted to deal with their issues.I wonder, if we attempt to reinforce the concepts of sex vs. gender, would that help? Biological sex refers to the set of chromosomes you were born with -- XX, XY, or in some cases (such as Caster Semenya), XYY or XO. Gender is a social construct: Are you a man or a woman? Neither? Both? Unsure? You can exercise choice as to how you live your life and how you identify; transitioning to a gender that does not correspond to your biological sex doesn't change your chromosomal makeup.So, if we referred to "males' swimming" and "females' swimming," would that help a little? Maybe?
I hate this issue because it's often used as the gateway to all things anti-trans. (General talk about the issues and then..."what about sports.") I also want everyone to be able to compete and we're not going to have a TransNBA alongside the WNBA and NBA. And we're not going to have a third gender sex in the Olympics. And while most people, regardless sex / gender, will never be able to compete at such high levels, youth and school sports are prevalent in the lives of most young people. And it's not fair in many sports for a genetic male to compete with genetic females. Sure, sometimes I miss the days when we'd say "life isn't always fair" but now we're talking about potential safety concerns, as well. So I begrudgingly understand the angle on this one. That all said, I hate the argumentative doors this opens and I fear a future where participants in girls sports have to be examined by the Dr. Nassers of the world to be "certified female."
Next step ideally for me would be to meet and talk with some Trans folks to get an even better understanding of them biologically, spiritually, and socially.
Ultimately.... folks who have passionate opinions about subjects they really don't know much about is causing a lot of discourse and sometimes violence and harassment.Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx0 -
curmudgeoness said:I think it also would help to inject facts into the conversation. I'm currently a registered voter in a deep red state (we move a lot), where a big fuss is being made about trans athletes participating in school sports, instituting bathroom bans in government buildings, etc. If I recall correctly, someone looked into how many students would be affected by the ban on transgender athletes' participation in girls' school sports, and the answer was: four. A big to-do was being made about keeping "our girls" safe from the "trans threat," and this epidemic of wokeness actually consisted of four young trans people.The rights of those four young people matter! But they don't constitute a threat or a wave or a trend. They are four people. There must be more humane ways to address the issue.With regard to the "Larry Nasser" comment, I hear you, and, ick. I've heard some local noises about local crackpot politicians wanting gender (sex) confirmation to be part of the physical examinations required for participation in school sports.That idea really doesn't sit well with me, at all. I am aware that elite athletes surrender a certain amount of bodily privacy when they reach a certain level (among the people first to approach a marathon winner at the finish line is the "chaperone" who will stay with them until they have produced a urine specimen under the chaperone's supervision; elite runners also can be randomly tested, which means that an official might show up at your door at any time with a sample bottle in hand). That's a crazy thing to do in youth club sports.I suppose "please create thoughtful, common-sense rules that protect the rights and well-being of all people involved" is a big ask of our current political leaders, but it would be nice if they tried.
It's the same bullshit they did with the migrant caravans a few years back. They create these fake things to be outraged about to get the stupidest members of their base out to the polls.Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
Parksy said:lastexitlondon said:Kids should be nowhere near this.
The internet is solely to blame. Before we had that this wasn't an issue.
It annoys me as a parent. Be what you want but don't start pushing it on kids.
I think information is very important for fostering any kind of understanding.
I personally want my kid to understand the difference between sex and gender. I want her to know all of the facts on a scientific level. I want her to know the stats... I want her to know how and why trans people are amongst us as opposed to either her being ignorant to it or even worse being afraid of it. At what age should she be subjected to this.... . fantastic question... that I would generally leave to those who specialize in educating.
That said... when it comes to the 'pushing it on kids' I do want politics out of the schools which seems easier said than done. I've seen zero evidence that this is being pushed on kids here in Canada at least... but kids having an understanding of why and how people are different to me is important so she will be accepting and understanding as opposed to fearful and hating.0 -
pjl44 said:Parksy said:lastexitlondon said:Kids should be nowhere near this.
The internet is solely to blame. Before we had that this wasn't an issue.
It annoys me as a parent. Be what you want but don't start pushing it on kids.
I think information is very important for fostering any kind of understanding.
I personally want my kid to understand the difference between sex and gender. I want her to know all of the facts on a scientific level. I want her to know the stats... I want her to know how and why trans people are amongst us as opposed to either her being ignorant to it or even worse being afraid of it. At what age should she be subjected to this.... . fantastic question... that I would generally leave to those who specialize in educating.
That said... when it comes to the 'pushing it on kids' I do want politics out of the schools which seems easier said than done. I've seen zero evidence that this is being pushed on kids here in Canada at least... but kids having an understanding of why and how people are different to me is important so she will be accepting and understanding as opposed to fearful and hating.
I wonder like... it I was a teacher for example... and I dunno let's say anywhere from Grade 6 or so to high school. How much of a tether do I have with regards to not so much the formulated curriculum but rather answering a question from a student. Like if a student asks about the subject, am I ordered to respond by saying "talk to your folks?" Can I express my opinion? Has the school board already stated a response. Stuff like that intrigues me with regards to education.
This is and was an issue politically in Canada. With the question being... "at what point do we interfere with parents upbringing / rights." Putting aside sexual orientation etc..... if a kid has parents who are flat earthers..... and they ask their teacher "Hey, is the earth really flat?" Like do we consider that also some sort of interference that borders on disrespect of parents' beliefs / rights? Along the same lines.... if a kid is being brought up with their parents saying "Born with a penis, you're a male, born with a vagina, you're a female and that's the end of it" ... would it then be disrespectful or against a parents rights for a teacher to disagree with that? Fascinating times we live in.Post edited by Parksy onToronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx0 -
Gern Blansten said:curmudgeoness said:I think it also would help to inject facts into the conversation. I'm currently a registered voter in a deep red state (we move a lot), where a big fuss is being made about trans athletes participating in school sports, instituting bathroom bans in government buildings, etc. If I recall correctly, someone looked into how many students would be affected by the ban on transgender athletes' participation in girls' school sports, and the answer was: four. A big to-do was being made about keeping "our girls" safe from the "trans threat," and this epidemic of wokeness actually consisted of four young trans people.The rights of those four young people matter! But they don't constitute a threat or a wave or a trend. They are four people. There must be more humane ways to address the issue.With regard to the "Larry Nasser" comment, I hear you, and, ick. I've heard some local noises about local crackpot politicians wanting gender (sex) confirmation to be part of the physical examinations required for participation in school sports.That idea really doesn't sit well with me, at all. I am aware that elite athletes surrender a certain amount of bodily privacy when they reach a certain level (among the people first to approach a marathon winner at the finish line is the "chaperone" who will stay with them until they have produced a urine specimen under the chaperone's supervision; elite runners also can be randomly tested, which means that an official might show up at your door at any time with a sample bottle in hand). That's a crazy thing to do in youth club sports.I suppose "please create thoughtful, common-sense rules that protect the rights and well-being of all people involved" is a big ask of our current political leaders, but it would be nice if they tried.
It's the same bullshit they did with the migrant caravans a few years back. They create these fake things to be outraged about to get the stupidest members of their base out to the polls.
So just stop the nonsense, then the idiots have nothing to shout from the rooftops that is low hanging fruit.hippiemom = goodness0 -
cincybearcat said:Gern Blansten said:curmudgeoness said:I think it also would help to inject facts into the conversation. I'm currently a registered voter in a deep red state (we move a lot), where a big fuss is being made about trans athletes participating in school sports, instituting bathroom bans in government buildings, etc. If I recall correctly, someone looked into how many students would be affected by the ban on transgender athletes' participation in girls' school sports, and the answer was: four. A big to-do was being made about keeping "our girls" safe from the "trans threat," and this epidemic of wokeness actually consisted of four young trans people.The rights of those four young people matter! But they don't constitute a threat or a wave or a trend. They are four people. There must be more humane ways to address the issue.With regard to the "Larry Nasser" comment, I hear you, and, ick. I've heard some local noises about local crackpot politicians wanting gender (sex) confirmation to be part of the physical examinations required for participation in school sports.That idea really doesn't sit well with me, at all. I am aware that elite athletes surrender a certain amount of bodily privacy when they reach a certain level (among the people first to approach a marathon winner at the finish line is the "chaperone" who will stay with them until they have produced a urine specimen under the chaperone's supervision; elite runners also can be randomly tested, which means that an official might show up at your door at any time with a sample bottle in hand). That's a crazy thing to do in youth club sports.I suppose "please create thoughtful, common-sense rules that protect the rights and well-being of all people involved" is a big ask of our current political leaders, but it would be nice if they tried.
It's the same bullshit they did with the migrant caravans a few years back. They create these fake things to be outraged about to get the stupidest members of their base out to the polls.
So just stop the nonsense, then the idiots have nothing to shout from the rooftops that is low hanging fruit.Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
Gern Blansten said:cincybearcat said:Gern Blansten said:curmudgeoness said:I think it also would help to inject facts into the conversation. I'm currently a registered voter in a deep red state (we move a lot), where a big fuss is being made about trans athletes participating in school sports, instituting bathroom bans in government buildings, etc. If I recall correctly, someone looked into how many students would be affected by the ban on transgender athletes' participation in girls' school sports, and the answer was: four. A big to-do was being made about keeping "our girls" safe from the "trans threat," and this epidemic of wokeness actually consisted of four young trans people.The rights of those four young people matter! But they don't constitute a threat or a wave or a trend. They are four people. There must be more humane ways to address the issue.With regard to the "Larry Nasser" comment, I hear you, and, ick. I've heard some local noises about local crackpot politicians wanting gender (sex) confirmation to be part of the physical examinations required for participation in school sports.That idea really doesn't sit well with me, at all. I am aware that elite athletes surrender a certain amount of bodily privacy when they reach a certain level (among the people first to approach a marathon winner at the finish line is the "chaperone" who will stay with them until they have produced a urine specimen under the chaperone's supervision; elite runners also can be randomly tested, which means that an official might show up at your door at any time with a sample bottle in hand). That's a crazy thing to do in youth club sports.I suppose "please create thoughtful, common-sense rules that protect the rights and well-being of all people involved" is a big ask of our current political leaders, but it would be nice if they tried.
It's the same bullshit they did with the migrant caravans a few years back. They create these fake things to be outraged about to get the stupidest members of their base out to the polls.
So just stop the nonsense, then the idiots have nothing to shout from the rooftops that is low hanging fruit.
Sports injects a relatable but ultimately confusing element to everything. As you say, it's probably not happening in big numbers. Either way, telling someone in high school that they're not eligible to participate in extracurricular activities reminds of some really ugly times; however, there are legitimate competitive concerns. Ultimately most people have those concerns and agree with bans. It's a really easy way not only to push people down the full anti-trans path...and maybe even the whole "anti-woke" path. Riley Gaines has become a conservative hero because she lost a college swim race to a trans competitor. I agree that it wasn't fair but I really do miss the pre-victim right's calls of "life's not always fair" and "get over it."
I'm wondering whether the "save women's sports" crowd will ultimately destroy it. There was the period of time where Katie Ledecky was being accused of being trans. It was totally baseless but, hey, I guess she's not conventionally attractive or something. The fervor around this issue has so many people thinking it's commonplace. My guess is most girls can go through four years of high school playing three sports and never run across a competitor born male. Does that mean such things should not be addressed? No. But we're also not about to be swept up by a pink and blue woke wave that will ban Christianity, hard work, conservative clothing, and pledging allegiance.1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley0 -
OnWis97 said:Gern Blansten said:cincybearcat said:Gern Blansten said:curmudgeoness said:I think it also would help to inject facts into the conversation. I'm currently a registered voter in a deep red state (we move a lot), where a big fuss is being made about trans athletes participating in school sports, instituting bathroom bans in government buildings, etc. If I recall correctly, someone looked into how many students would be affected by the ban on transgender athletes' participation in girls' school sports, and the answer was: four. A big to-do was being made about keeping "our girls" safe from the "trans threat," and this epidemic of wokeness actually consisted of four young trans people.The rights of those four young people matter! But they don't constitute a threat or a wave or a trend. They are four people. There must be more humane ways to address the issue.With regard to the "Larry Nasser" comment, I hear you, and, ick. I've heard some local noises about local crackpot politicians wanting gender (sex) confirmation to be part of the physical examinations required for participation in school sports.That idea really doesn't sit well with me, at all. I am aware that elite athletes surrender a certain amount of bodily privacy when they reach a certain level (among the people first to approach a marathon winner at the finish line is the "chaperone" who will stay with them until they have produced a urine specimen under the chaperone's supervision; elite runners also can be randomly tested, which means that an official might show up at your door at any time with a sample bottle in hand). That's a crazy thing to do in youth club sports.I suppose "please create thoughtful, common-sense rules that protect the rights and well-being of all people involved" is a big ask of our current political leaders, but it would be nice if they tried.
It's the same bullshit they did with the migrant caravans a few years back. They create these fake things to be outraged about to get the stupidest members of their base out to the polls.
So just stop the nonsense, then the idiots have nothing to shout from the rooftops that is low hanging fruit.
Sports injects a relatable but ultimately confusing element to everything. As you say, it's probably not happening in big numbers. Either way, telling someone in high school that they're not eligible to participate in extracurricular activities reminds of some really ugly times; however, there are legitimate competitive concerns. Ultimately most people have those concerns and agree with bans. It's a really easy way not only to push people down the full anti-trans path...and maybe even the whole "anti-woke" path. Riley Gaines has become a conservative hero because she lost a college swim race to a trans competitor. I agree that it wasn't fair but I really do miss the pre-victim right's calls of "life's not always fair" and "get over it."
I'm wondering whether the "save women's sports" crowd will ultimately destroy it. There was the period of time where Katie Ledecky was being accused of being trans. It was totally baseless but, hey, I guess she's not conventionally attractive or something. The fervor around this issue has so many people thinking it's commonplace. My guess is most girls can go through four years of high school playing three sports and never run across a competitor born male. Does that mean such things should not be addressed? No. But we're also not about to be swept up by a pink and blue woke wave that will ban Christianity, hard work, conservative clothing, and pledging allegiance.
The Olympic committee had brought up a possible 3rd entry level but I think we can all agree that it would be a very small pool of participants.
We had a similar discussion a few years ago and it was a much different one than what we have now.
Sorry about your kiddo. I hope she can still live a normal life and not be jaded.
0 -
OnWis97 said:Gern Blansten said:cincybearcat said:Gern Blansten said:curmudgeoness said:I think it also would help to inject facts into the conversation. I'm currently a registered voter in a deep red state (we move a lot), where a big fuss is being made about trans athletes participating in school sports, instituting bathroom bans in government buildings, etc. If I recall correctly, someone looked into how many students would be affected by the ban on transgender athletes' participation in girls' school sports, and the answer was: four. A big to-do was being made about keeping "our girls" safe from the "trans threat," and this epidemic of wokeness actually consisted of four young trans people.The rights of those four young people matter! But they don't constitute a threat or a wave or a trend. They are four people. There must be more humane ways to address the issue.With regard to the "Larry Nasser" comment, I hear you, and, ick. I've heard some local noises about local crackpot politicians wanting gender (sex) confirmation to be part of the physical examinations required for participation in school sports.That idea really doesn't sit well with me, at all. I am aware that elite athletes surrender a certain amount of bodily privacy when they reach a certain level (among the people first to approach a marathon winner at the finish line is the "chaperone" who will stay with them until they have produced a urine specimen under the chaperone's supervision; elite runners also can be randomly tested, which means that an official might show up at your door at any time with a sample bottle in hand). That's a crazy thing to do in youth club sports.I suppose "please create thoughtful, common-sense rules that protect the rights and well-being of all people involved" is a big ask of our current political leaders, but it would be nice if they tried.
It's the same bullshit they did with the migrant caravans a few years back. They create these fake things to be outraged about to get the stupidest members of their base out to the polls.
So just stop the nonsense, then the idiots have nothing to shout from the rooftops that is low hanging fruit.
Sports injects a relatable but ultimately confusing element to everything. As you say, it's probably not happening in big numbers. Either way, telling someone in high school that they're not eligible to participate in extracurricular activities reminds of some really ugly times; however, there are legitimate competitive concerns. Ultimately most people have those concerns and agree with bans. It's a really easy way not only to push people down the full anti-trans path...and maybe even the whole "anti-woke" path. Riley Gaines has become a conservative hero because she lost a college swim race to a trans competitor. I agree that it wasn't fair but I really do miss the pre-victim right's calls of "life's not always fair" and "get over it."
I'm wondering whether the "save women's sports" crowd will ultimately destroy it. There was the period of time where Katie Ledecky was being accused of being trans. It was totally baseless but, hey, I guess she's not conventionally attractive or something. The fervor around this issue has so many people thinking it's commonplace. My guess is most girls can go through four years of high school playing three sports and never run across a competitor born male. Does that mean such things should not be addressed? No. But we're also not about to be swept up by a pink and blue woke wave that will ban Christianity, hard work, conservative clothing, and pledging allegiance.Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
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Gern Blansten said:OnWis97 said:Gern Blansten said:cincybearcat said:Gern Blansten said:curmudgeoness said:I think it also would help to inject facts into the conversation. I'm currently a registered voter in a deep red state (we move a lot), where a big fuss is being made about trans athletes participating in school sports, instituting bathroom bans in government buildings, etc. If I recall correctly, someone looked into how many students would be affected by the ban on transgender athletes' participation in girls' school sports, and the answer was: four. A big to-do was being made about keeping "our girls" safe from the "trans threat," and this epidemic of wokeness actually consisted of four young trans people.The rights of those four young people matter! But they don't constitute a threat or a wave or a trend. They are four people. There must be more humane ways to address the issue.With regard to the "Larry Nasser" comment, I hear you, and, ick. I've heard some local noises about local crackpot politicians wanting gender (sex) confirmation to be part of the physical examinations required for participation in school sports.That idea really doesn't sit well with me, at all. I am aware that elite athletes surrender a certain amount of bodily privacy when they reach a certain level (among the people first to approach a marathon winner at the finish line is the "chaperone" who will stay with them until they have produced a urine specimen under the chaperone's supervision; elite runners also can be randomly tested, which means that an official might show up at your door at any time with a sample bottle in hand). That's a crazy thing to do in youth club sports.I suppose "please create thoughtful, common-sense rules that protect the rights and well-being of all people involved" is a big ask of our current political leaders, but it would be nice if they tried.
It's the same bullshit they did with the migrant caravans a few years back. They create these fake things to be outraged about to get the stupidest members of their base out to the polls.
So just stop the nonsense, then the idiots have nothing to shout from the rooftops that is low hanging fruit.
Sports injects a relatable but ultimately confusing element to everything. As you say, it's probably not happening in big numbers. Either way, telling someone in high school that they're not eligible to participate in extracurricular activities reminds of some really ugly times; however, there are legitimate competitive concerns. Ultimately most people have those concerns and agree with bans. It's a really easy way not only to push people down the full anti-trans path...and maybe even the whole "anti-woke" path. Riley Gaines has become a conservative hero because she lost a college swim race to a trans competitor. I agree that it wasn't fair but I really do miss the pre-victim right's calls of "life's not always fair" and "get over it."
I'm wondering whether the "save women's sports" crowd will ultimately destroy it. There was the period of time where Katie Ledecky was being accused of being trans. It was totally baseless but, hey, I guess she's not conventionally attractive or something. The fervor around this issue has so many people thinking it's commonplace. My guess is most girls can go through four years of high school playing three sports and never run across a competitor born male. Does that mean such things should not be addressed? No. But we're also not about to be swept up by a pink and blue woke wave that will ban Christianity, hard work, conservative clothing, and pledging allegiance.1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
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One of the ways this can spiral out of control is cherry picking reactions and then arguing with those reactions vs. discussing the issue on its merits with the people in front of you having the discussion.0
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