Keeping Men out of Women's Sports

Tim Simmons

I literally said thats not whats happening in this thread. But if Transphobia does exist in the general discussion, I can't blame people for feeling triggered about it or feeling like its an undercurrent of the discussion. 

Go Beavers

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

OnWis97 said:

For months I assumed she finished second in the race that made her famous. Turns out she finished 5th. Where are the other three?

She finished TIED for 5th with Lia Thomas!

I believe she did win many races, but the only time the two competed together, Lia did not win.

Also, I don't think it really matters. You're either for biological completing with females or you're not. The place you come in shouldn't;t factor into your beliefs. 

the point being made is that the issue is so infinitesimal that the fuss being made about this issue by the right is just another boogieman. remember the caravans fox news and trump kept trying to stir everyone into a scared frenzy about? deal with it at the local level where it belongs. it's like the feds getting involved in a school yard fight. it's just so absurd. 

  
It becomes a bigger point because the right sees it as something so obvious, that biological males shouldn't compete against biological females. But then the left only see's it as a bigot/homophobic issue, when it really isn't. So instead of it just going away, it becomes a bigger thing. 

So theres no transphobia wrapped up in this issue at all??

I’m sure some people are, but that’s not the majority.
And this kinda just proved my point. You can’t say “men don’t belong in women’s sports” without being called transphobic.
I don’t care about their private lives. I just don’t believe some who has the physical advantage of being biologically male should compete against females. I don’t think it matters if it’s a common problem or not. That’s irrelevant as to weather it should be allowed. It only keeps being brought up because whenever it is, the transphobia argument is brought on. If it’s not a big deal and is so rare, and there’s more female athletes against it than trans athletes trying to compete, why not just ban it then? Problem solved. Common sense and majority wins.
The majority of people don’t really care about their personal lives. 

Gender isn’t something that’s private or personal. It’s just something that’s part of our being wherever we are. If you think transgender people really exist, and this isn’t about eliminating part if a person’t identity, then the right should be saying “transgender women shouldn’t be competing against women”. But that’s not what they’re saying. 

Tim Simmons

Fantastic, honest assessment, article, given the recent news

https://prospect.org/2025/12/19/transphobic-mask-is-off-congress-ban-health-care/

tempo_n_groove

Tim Simmons said:

Fantastic, honest assessment, article, given the recent news

https://prospect.org/2025/12/19/transphobic-mask-is-off-congress-ban-health-care/

Are kids going through hormone treatments?  Is that a thing?  If it is, it shouldn't.  That's my opinion.

Should you go to prison for ten years if you have your kid do it?  I don't know.

Gern Blansten

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

Fantastic, honest assessment, article, given the recent news

https://prospect.org/2025/12/19/transphobic-mask-is-off-congress-ban-health-care/

Are kids going through hormone treatments?  Is that a thing?  If it is, it shouldn't.  That's my opinion.

Should you go to prison for ten years if you have your kid do it?  I don't know.

I think it's extremely rare. To me it's another thing that should be between a doctor and patient rather than the government.

The trump admin just loves to promote hate anywhere they can so they create crisis out of nothing.

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

Fantastic, honest assessment, article, given the recent news

https://prospect.org/2025/12/19/transphobic-mask-is-off-congress-ban-health-care/

Are kids going through hormone treatments?  Is that a thing?  If it is, it shouldn't.  That's my opinion.

Should you go to prison for ten years if you have your kid do it?  I don't know.

I think it's extremely rare. To me it's another thing that should be between a doctor and patient rather than the government.

The trump admin just loves to promote hate anywhere they can so they create crisis out of nothing.

Unless that doctor has extensive psychiatric training I don't think they should either. 

I have friends who's kid, hes 22, wants to transition.  One of his fathers are a psychiatrist (they are a gay couple)and isn't keen on it.  He would know better than us I would assume. He has been discussing it with him but still has reservations of the son doing it.

Granted he's an adult wanting to do this but his father isn't sure he is doing it for the right reasons.

There are a bunch of layers to their scenario.

Trump and the likes do seem to make a mess of things and their base seems to rally around it.

Gern Blansten

I can't say that I agree with surgeries at all. It just seems way too extreme.

Gern Blansten

These discussions always remind me of this documentary I saw years ago. I think it was on HBO.

It followed several trans people as they dealt with life, transitioning, etc. Very interesting but I thought it was odd that one couple was a trans male and trans female...the end result being a heterosexual couple (in a way) but they had each transitioned.

Seemed to me like a great waste of time and resources to transition only to end up with someone of the opposite sex. I mean I get it....but I don't get it.

Tim Simmons

Who gives a shit? It’s their choice to do it. If they regret it later, well, that’s life. We all make fucking choices and sometimes they don’t work out. This is no different. 

And if we’re gonna sit here and moralize what is “potentially” harmful, we can probably land on 90 things that affect a significantly wider portion of the population that we want to preemptively halt from making bad decisions. But instead this is what we are focusing a disproportionate amount of time, focus and energy on (which is really just misplaced anger). Because it’s easier to try to force conformity at best, wipe out at worst (advocates would be happy with either) less than 1% of Americans than it is to fix a problem that affects a more statistically significant population. 

Tim Simmons

Gern Blansten said:

Seemed to me like a great waste of time and resources to transition only to end up with someone of the opposite sex. I mean I get it....but I don't get it.

This place is filled with signatures of people spending tens of thousands of dollars and days worth of time to see shows. The usage and value of time and money differs from person to person. In the end however we spend it is all the same. 

Gern Blansten

Tim Simmons said:

Who gives a shit? It’s their choice to do it. If they regret it later, well, that’s life. We all make fucking choices and sometimes they don’t work out. This is no different. 

And if we’re gonna sit here and moralize what is “potentially” harmful, we can probably land on 90 things that affect a significantly wider portion of the population that we want to preemptively halt from making bad decisions. But instead this is what we are focusing a disproportionate amount of time, focus and energy on (which is really just misplaced anger). Because it’s easier to try to force conformity at best, wipe out at worst (advocates would be happy with either) less than 1% of Americans than it is to fix a problem that affects a more statistically significant population. 

right but wouldn't you agree that transition surgery is very likely the pinnacle of life choices? It's not on the same level as "should I buy a new pickup truck?"

Gern Blansten

And to clarify....I have no problem with trans people. I am completely fine with them living the lives they want to live I just personally struggle with the decisions. Most likely because I just don't understand the science behind it. The GOP likes to just say they are mentally ill. I don't agree with that.

tempo_n_groove

Tim Simmons said:

Who gives a shit? It’s their choice to do it. If they regret it later, well, that’s life. We all make fucking choices and sometimes they don’t work out. This is no different. 

And if we’re gonna sit here and moralize what is “potentially” harmful, we can probably land on 90 things that affect a significantly wider portion of the population that we want to preemptively halt from making bad decisions. But instead this is what we are focusing a disproportionate amount of time, focus and energy on (which is really just misplaced anger). Because it’s easier to try to force conformity at best, wipe out at worst (advocates would be happy with either) less than 1% of Americans than it is to fix a problem that affects a more statistically significant population. 

While I agree with "who gives a shit" if you knew a child was going to do something potentially harmful would you let them do it and say "oh well it's their life."?

I struggle with the fact it is their body and they are still children.

Adults?  Have at it.

Tim Simmons

Kid surgeries are not really a thing that happens though.

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/01/06/nx-s1-5247724/transgender-teens-gender-affirming-care-hormones-jama

Hormone treatments, yes. But bodily changes from those aren't really dramatic. 

Tim Simmons

Gern Blansten said:

Tim Simmons said:

Who gives a shit? It’s their choice to do it. If they regret it later, well, that’s life. We all make fucking choices and sometimes they don’t work out. This is no different. 

And if we’re gonna sit here and moralize what is “potentially” harmful, we can probably land on 90 things that affect a significantly wider portion of the population that we want to preemptively halt from making bad decisions. But instead this is what we are focusing a disproportionate amount of time, focus and energy on (which is really just misplaced anger). Because it’s easier to try to force conformity at best, wipe out at worst (advocates would be happy with either) less than 1% of Americans than it is to fix a problem that affects a more statistically significant population. 

right but wouldn't you agree that transition surgery is very likely the pinnacle of life choices? It's not on the same level as "should I buy a new pickup truck?"

Agreed. Its a very seriously life altering choice. So I don't think people are entering into it frivolously. So when people want to commit to it, I'm assuming they've given it it all the forethought and emotional investment and will be happy with going through with it.

tempo_n_groove

Tim Simmons said:

Kid surgeries are not really a thing that happens though.

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/01/06/nx-s1-5247724/transgender-teens-gender-affirming-care-hormones-jama

Hormone treatments, yes. But bodily changes from those aren't really dramatic. 

Curious as to how they found these numbers considering the HIPA laws?

I went down a rabbit hole of finding percentages and the numbers are all over the place as I am really curious as to how many people identify which way.

HughFreakingDillon

Gern Blansten said:

These discussions always remind me of this documentary I saw years ago. I think it was on HBO.

It followed several trans people as they dealt with life, transitioning, etc. Very interesting but I thought it was odd that one couple was a trans male and trans female...the end result being a heterosexual couple (in a way) but they had each transitioned.

Seemed to me like a great waste of time and resources to transition only to end up with someone of the opposite sex. I mean I get it....but I don't get it.

it's not about what gender you end up being with romantically; it's about which gender feels right for their own body. 

HughFreakingDillon

I have heard people quote numbers on how many trans people regret the surgery eventually, but those numbers are usually coming from someone who is speaking in a biased manner against the idea of transitioning. Have never looked it up independently. 

Tim Simmons

tempo_n_groove said:

Tim Simmons said:

Kid surgeries are not really a thing that happens though.

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/01/06/nx-s1-5247724/transgender-teens-gender-affirming-care-hormones-jama

Hormone treatments, yes. But bodily changes from those aren't really dramatic. 

Curious as to how they found these numbers considering the HIPA laws?

I went down a rabbit hole of finding percentages and the numbers are all over the place as I am really curious as to how many people identify which way.

Heres an earlier study. 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2820437

I assume this is similar to how they got the info and not violate HIPA

Informed consent was waived because data were deidentified. Using medical claims from Inovalon Insights, we identified TGD people who received a gender-affirming procedure using previously validated sets of diagnostic and procedural codes in 2019