Delux Cd w Bluray

dobyblue said:

Unfortunately the LPCM is as you'd expect the same atrocious mastering found everywhere else for the stereo mix, whether that's Spotify, Apple, Qobuz, HDTracks, Pro Studio Masters, CD, whatever.

Thankfully the TrueHD/Atmos track is night and day from the stereo, not only is it beautifully mastered with more dynamics than even Ten originally had in 1991, but the mix is really well done too! And we don't have to suffer a fidelity loss by going to streaming DD+/Atmos, such a thrill to finally get an audiophile release of a Pearl Jam album after so many years of loudness wars vinyl and CD/digital offerings.

Can you play the TrueHD / Atmos version on a 2-channel stereo?  And if so, does it sound better than the stereo mix?

KV4053

I'm reading mixed answers on how exactly this works. Does ATMOS work on two channel stereo? The first time I listened to the Blu-ray, I had it on ATMOS and it sounded fantastic, but it also seemed to be missing something. LPCM sounded fuller but muddy 

I'm wondering the same. I hear the same with my two channel stéréo. With atmos, I don't hear the bass, the sound seem muffled sometimes and sometimes like something is missing. Same as you for LPCM.

KV4053 said:

Can you play the TrueHD / Atmos version on a 2-channel stereo?  And if so, does it sound better than the stereo mix?

Yes you can play it back, Atmos works with whatever your speaker layout is whether it's a massive 7.2.4 layout or just a pair of bookshelf speakers in stereo. Even on the fancy pants systems you can select "STEREO" as the listening mode and it will downmix to just your front speakers and subwoofer.

The second question is wholly subjective but I can't stand the sonic signature of egregious dynamic range compression so to me the Atmos played back in stereo is a massive improvement over the stereo mix whether you're listening via Blu-ray, vinyl, CD or download.

Here's the DR log for the Atmos mix downmixed to stereo, what a joy!

foobar2000 2.1.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2024-04-23 14:46:41

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Pearl Jam / Dark Matter
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11      -5.01 dB   -18.37 dB      4:24 01-Scared Of Fear
DR12      -3.95 dB   -19.16 dB      3:31 02-React, Respond
DR12      -2.07 dB   -18.28 dB      5:01 03-Wreckage
DR13      -1.02 dB   -17.77 dB      3:31 04-Dark Matter
DR12      -4.24 dB   -18.65 dB      3:29 05-Won't Tell
DR11      -2.74 dB   -18.63 dB      5:57 06-Upper Hand
DR12      -4.28 dB   -18.49 dB      5:41 07-Waiting For Stevie
DR12      -4.31 dB   -18.28 dB      2:19 08-Running
DR13      -1.97 dB   -18.46 dB      4:07 09-Something Special
DR12      -4.78 dB   -19.49 dB      4:37 10-Got To Give
DR12      -2.77 dB   -18.73 dB      5:44 11-Setting Sun
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  11
Official DR value: DR12

Samplerate:        48000 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   24
Bitrate:           1532 kbps
Codec:             FLAC
================================================================================

dobyblue said:

KV4053 said:

Can you play the TrueHD / Atmos version on a 2-channel stereo?  And if so, does it sound better than the stereo mix?

 to me the Atmos played back in stereo is a massive improvement over the stereo mix whether you're listening via Blu-ray, vinyl, CD or download.

That is what I thought as well.  Ed's vocals are more up front and clearly centered in the soundstage.  Jeff's bass is also clear.  Mike's guitar wanders all over the soundstage...and is magnificent.

Bob Mayo on the keyboards Bob said:

What software did you use to rip/downmix? Makemkv>dvdae is what I’m using I left the house for work after hitting the button to down mix the atmos so haven’t listened back. I also set lpcm as a 16 bit rip but am now suspecting it’s 24/48 not 16/48, anybody’s system tell you whether stereo lpcm it’s 24bit or 16bit as it’s playing? Goal is to get the hires files into Pono for headphone listening! 

It is 24/48 LPCM but I would highly recommend using a downmix 24/48 LPCM from the Atmos mix for your Pono.

I use AudioMuxer after MakeMKV...a long time ago in the SACD/DVD-A days I used DVDAE but AudioMuxer provided a much more seamless dts-HD Master Audio solution before anyone else so I've never gone back.

In regards to the 2 channel downmix of the TrueHD.  Standard TrueHD provides a 2 channel, 6 channel and 8 channel presentation.  The Atmos metadata is most likely only applied to the 6 and 8 channel presentations, but it will still provide a stereo downmix.

dobyblue said:

Bob Mayo on the keyboards Bob said:

What software did you use to rip/downmix? Makemkv>dvdae is what I’m using I left the house for work after hitting the button to down mix the atmos so haven’t listened back. I also set lpcm as a 16 bit rip but am now suspecting it’s 24/48 not 16/48, anybody’s system tell you whether stereo lpcm it’s 24bit or 16bit as it’s playing? Goal is to get the hires files into Pono for headphone listening! 

It is 24/48 LPCM but I would highly recommend using a downmix 24/48 LPCM from the Atmos mix for your Pono.

I use AudioMuxer after MakeMKV...a long time ago in the SACD/DVD-A days I used DVDAE but AudioMuxer provided a much more seamless dts-HD Master Audio solution before anyone else so I've never gone back.

Thanks for talking nerd with me! Off to hunt that down 

dobyblue said:

KV4053 said:

IALauder said:

In regards to the 2 channel downmix of the TrueHD.  Standard TrueHD provides a 2 channel, 6 channel and 8 channel presentation.  The Atmos metadata is most likely only applied to the 6 and 8 channel presentations, but it will still provide a stereo downmix.

Thank you. This is helpful. Based on what you're saying, for clarity, should I use the Atmos (TrueHD) option rather than the LPCM option on the blu-rays top menu?

The LPCM is horrendously compressed (dynamically) - definitely choose the Atmos track as long as your system supports TrueHD.

^ this is the way. Finally got the disc out of my computer and into the Oppo- the atmos mix on the bluray is much better to listen to than any other version. I’ve heard dark matter the most and the difference is night and day. The drums sound realer, all kinds of crazy fills that are buried in the other mix come out, you hear Jeff doing some things that are hard to hear otherwise, and even some reverb on the vocal thats hard to hear otherwise is there. It just breathes a little more. Love it. 

dobyblue said:

KV4053 said:

Can you play the TrueHD / Atmos version on a 2-channel stereo?  And if so, does it sound better than the stereo mix?

Yes you can play it back, Atmos works with whatever your speaker layout is whether it's a massive 7.2.4 layout or just a pair of bookshelf speakers in stereo. Even on the fancy pants systems you can select "STEREO" as the listening mode and it will downmix to just your front speakers and subwoofer.

The second question is wholly subjective but I can't stand the sonic signature of egregious dynamic range compression so to me the Atmos played back in stereo is a massive improvement over the stereo mix whether you're listening via Blu-ray, vinyl, CD or download.

Here's the DR log for the Atmos mix downmixed to stereo, what a joy!

foobar2000 2.1.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2024-04-23 14:46:41

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Pearl Jam / Dark Matter
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11      -5.01 dB   -18.37 dB      4:24 01-Scared Of Fear
DR12      -3.95 dB   -19.16 dB      3:31 02-React, Respond
DR12      -2.07 dB   -18.28 dB      5:01 03-Wreckage
DR13      -1.02 dB   -17.77 dB      3:31 04-Dark Matter
DR12      -4.24 dB   -18.65 dB      3:29 05-Won't Tell
DR11      -2.74 dB   -18.63 dB      5:57 06-Upper Hand
DR12      -4.28 dB   -18.49 dB      5:41 07-Waiting For Stevie
DR12      -4.31 dB   -18.28 dB      2:19 08-Running
DR13      -1.97 dB   -18.46 dB      4:07 09-Something Special
DR12      -4.78 dB   -19.49 dB      4:37 10-Got To Give
DR12      -2.77 dB   -18.73 dB      5:44 11-Setting Sun
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  11
Official DR value: DR12

Samplerate:        48000 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   24
Bitrate:           1532 kbps
Codec:             FLAC
================================================================================

Thanks for this info!!!!