Let Your Voice Be Heard
Comments
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2000 (Roskilde Tragedy)LostDog_72 said:
It isn't even so much about the economic situation! PJ tour the US almost every year - they have come to Europe something like 4 times in the last 17 years. So the benefit of paying $$$ to "access thousands of tickets before anyone else in the general public. is somewhat reduced for EuropeansBF25394 said:
Fair enough. I may be a little sensitive to some of the political dynamics over here. Our economy has recovered much better than Europe's and the U.K.'s since the pandemic, so I recognize that the situation is not as good over there.lastexitlondon said:
Americans.....Europe would like a word . I don't know what a hyperbole is I'm a dumbass old English manBF25394 said:
A lot of hyperbole here. "Literally no benefit": you get the opportunity to access thousands of tickets before anyone else in the general public. That is a real benefit, even if it doesn't guarantee you tickets-- which it never did. "Toughest economic times for most people": the financial crisis of 2008 would like a word. We lost 700,000 jobs a month from October 2008 to April 2009. Homes were getting foreclosed on left and right. Meanwhile, a Quinnipiac poll of a few months ago found that 60 percent of Americans said their financial condition is either good or excellent.lastexitlondon said:I agree there is literally no benefit to pay membership anymore in the toughest economic times for most people. Sad to see this place nose dived so badly
2006 (back after Roskilde Tragedy)
2007
2009
2010
2012
2012 (Eddie)
2014
2017 (Eddie)
2018
2019 (Eddie)
2020 (-->2022)
2024
How often have they played e.g. the US south in that time period?Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
or (non big 3) Canada?Spiritual_Chaos said:
2000 (Roskilde Tragedy)LostDog_72 said:
It isn't even so much about the economic situation! PJ tour the US almost every year - they have come to Europe something like 4 times in the last 17 years. So the benefit of paying $$$ to "access thousands of tickets before anyone else in the general public. is somewhat reduced for EuropeansBF25394 said:
Fair enough. I may be a little sensitive to some of the political dynamics over here. Our economy has recovered much better than Europe's and the U.K.'s since the pandemic, so I recognize that the situation is not as good over there.lastexitlondon said:
Americans.....Europe would like a word . I don't know what a hyperbole is I'm a dumbass old English manBF25394 said:
A lot of hyperbole here. "Literally no benefit": you get the opportunity to access thousands of tickets before anyone else in the general public. That is a real benefit, even if it doesn't guarantee you tickets-- which it never did. "Toughest economic times for most people": the financial crisis of 2008 would like a word. We lost 700,000 jobs a month from October 2008 to April 2009. Homes were getting foreclosed on left and right. Meanwhile, a Quinnipiac poll of a few months ago found that 60 percent of Americans said their financial condition is either good or excellent.lastexitlondon said:I agree there is literally no benefit to pay membership anymore in the toughest economic times for most people. Sad to see this place nose dived so badly
2006 (back after Roskilde Tragedy)
2007
2009
2010
2012
2012 (Eddie)
2014
2017 (Eddie)
2018
2019 (Eddie)
2020 (-->2022)
2024
How often have they played e.g. the US south in that time period?By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
dunewall said:I'll pay $35 a year for let's say a 20-50% chance of getting tickets to shows without having to fight the bots in the general sale. If you're lucky enough to snag general sale or F2F tix - great. But if not, you are going to pay far more than $35 extra on the secondary market.
As I've said before - I was on a 0-11 lottery streak leading up to last year and I still think the membership is worth it. There are lots of things I waste $35 on throughout the year but the 10C membership isn't one of them IMO
I understand your point, but this doesn't jive with the supposed Pearl Jam way of doing things that we all loved when we were getting into the band... you know, that they were for the fans! In the past, a membership fee gave you a chance at concert tickets... but at the very least, you were able to get the things I mentioned in my earlier post... a vinyl single, a physical newsletter, a t-shirt. There was something tangible for the cost of membership before the chance of tickets even entered the equation. Oh wait, I forgot about the mp3 we get
I think the vinyl fan club single strongly coincides with the band's waning fan-friendliness. It was timely and on-point for a long time. Then it would be a little late. Then it was more than a year behind. Then it was gone. But spin that black circle, kids!
So now $35 gets you a 25 - 50% chance of getting a $190 ticket (basically making it a $210 ticket)? I know it's not 1998 when I scored 3rd row, $30 tickets to the United Center after receiving a cool newsletter and vinyl single all for the price of $10... but you can't tell me this band's attention to detail and fan-friendliness hasn't nosedived. It's been talked about a ton over the years how many feel they keep the "Pearl Jam business" alive for the loads of cash they will surely bring in, losing almost every remnant of the fan-friendly ethos that they wanted to be defined by.
I still get excited when they put out new music... the 7-year break from 2013 - 2020 had me wondering if they had turned into a complete nostalgia act, but hopefully the 2 records over the past 5 years is more of the pace we see from here on out. And I still get excited when I score fan club tickets and get to plan a trip around a show. Bottom line is that I completely understand the frustrations of longtime fans. We felt truly appreciated for a long, long time... as of late (maybe 5+ years... coincidentally it might have been right around the time of that hideous, pathetic "Ridin' With Biden" t-shirt), I understand fans wondering if the band treats "Pearl Jam" as a highly-profitable part-time business.Post edited by wnh1977 on1998: 6/26, 6/27, 6/29
2000: 8/15, 8/18, 10/9, 10/11, 10/12
2003: 6/18, 6/21, 6/22
2005: 9/9, 9/28
2006: 5/16, 5/17, 6/26, 6/27
2007: 8/5
2009: 8/23, 8/24
2010: 5/3, 5/4, 5/21
2011: 9/3, 9/4, 9/11, 9/12
2013: 7/19, 11/16
2014: 10/3, 10/9, 10/12, 10/17
2016: 4/16, 8/20, 8/22
2018: 8/18, 8/20, 9/2
2022: 9/18
2023: 8/31, 9/2, 9/5
2024: 5/18, 6/290 -
Why do you keep Pearl Jam to this low standard?dunewall said:I'll pay $35 a year for let's say a 20-50% chance of getting tickets to shows without having to fight the bots in the general sale. If you're lucky enough to snag general sale or F2F tix - great. But if not, you are going to pay far more than $35 extra on the secondary market.
As I've said before - I was on a 0-11 lottery streak leading up to last year and I still think the membership is worth it. There are lots of things I waste $35 on throughout the year but the 10C membership isn't one of them IMO
"Pearl Jam has a thing where you pay $35 a year for 20% chance of getting tickets once they tour""Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
My point stands - over that same period of time, they have played US dates in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2018, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024. I have excluded 2007 and 2015 because they only play 1 or 2 shows.Force Of Nature said:
They've been to Europe more than 4 times in 17 year.LostDog_72 said:
It isn't even so much about the economic situation! PJ tour the US almost every year - they have come to Europe something like 4 times in the last 17 years. So the benefit of paying $$$ to "access thousands of tickets before anyone else in the general public. is somewhat reduced for EuropeansBF25394 said:
Fair enough. I may be a little sensitive to some of the political dynamics over here. Our economy has recovered much better than Europe's and the U.K.'s since the pandemic, so I recognize that the situation is not as good over there.lastexitlondon said:
Americans.....Europe would like a word . I don't know what a hyperbole is I'm a dumbass old English manBF25394 said:
A lot of hyperbole here. "Literally no benefit": you get the opportunity to access thousands of tickets before anyone else in the general public. That is a real benefit, even if it doesn't guarantee you tickets-- which it never did. "Toughest economic times for most people": the financial crisis of 2008 would like a word. We lost 700,000 jobs a month from October 2008 to April 2009. Homes were getting foreclosed on left and right. Meanwhile, a Quinnipiac poll of a few months ago found that 60 percent of Americans said their financial condition is either good or excellent.lastexitlondon said:I agree there is literally no benefit to pay membership anymore in the toughest economic times for most people. Sad to see this place nose dived so badly
In that time I've seen them in the UK 2007, 2009, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2018, 20220 -
I points are valid and I'm not sure what is the solution. Getting the Christmas single in the mail (usually in Feb) was awesome. Question - would you be willing to pay $50 a year and get a shirt and single? Unfortunately, it's not just PJ. Everywhere you look these days we are paying more for less than we used to get.wnh1977 said:dunewall said:I'll pay $35 a year for let's say a 20-50% chance of getting tickets to shows without having to fight the bots in the general sale. If you're lucky enough to snag general sale or F2F tix - great. But if not, you are going to pay far more than $35 extra on the secondary market.
As I've said before - I was on a 0-11 lottery streak leading up to last year and I still think the membership is worth it. There are lots of things I waste $35 on throughout the year but the 10C membership isn't one of them IMO
I understand your point, but this doesn't jive with the supposed Pearl Jam way of doing things that we all loved when we were getting into the band... you know, that they were for the fans! In the past, a membership fee gave you a chance at concert tickets... but at the very least, you were able to get the things I mentioned in my earlier post... a vinyl single, a physical newsletter, a t-shirt. There was something tangible for the cost of membership before the chance of tickets even entered the equation. Oh wait, I forgot about the mp3 we get I think the vinyl fan club single strongly coincides with the band's waning fan-friendliness. It was timely and on-point for a long time. Then it would be a little late. Then it was more than a year behind. Then it was gone. But spin that black circle, kids!
So now $35 gets you a 25 - 50% chance of getting a $190 ticket (basically making it a $210 ticket)? I know it's not 1998 when I scored 3rd row, $30 tickets to the United Center after receiving a cool newsletter and vinyl single all for the price of $10... but you can't tell me this band's attention to detail and fan-friendliness hasn't nosedived. It's been talked about a ton over the years how many feel they keep the "Pearl Jam business" alive for the loads of cash they will surely bring in, losing almost every remnant of the fan-friendly ethos that they wanted to be defined by.
I still get excited when they put out new music... the 7-year break from 2013 - 2020 had me wondering if they had turned into a complete nostalgia act, but hopefully the 2 records over the past 5 years is more of the pace we see from here on out. And I still get excited when I score fan club tickets and get to plan a trip around a show. Bottom line is that I completely understand the frustrations of longtime fans. We felt truly appreciated for a long, long time... as of late (maybe 5+ years... coincidentally it might have been right around the time of that hideous, pathetic "Ridin' With Biden" t-shirt), I understand fans wondering if the band treats "Pearl Jam" as a highly-profitable part-time business.
Spiritual_Chaos said:
Trying to make the best of it honestly. As wnh1977 said - during that 7-year break most thought they may never come out with any new music.
Why do you keep Pearl Jam to this low standard?dunewall said:I'll pay $35 a year for let's say a 20-50% chance of getting tickets to shows without having to fight the bots in the general sale. If you're lucky enough to snag general sale or F2F tix - great. But if not, you are going to pay far more than $35 extra on the secondary market.
As I've said before - I was on a 0-11 lottery streak leading up to last year and I still think the membership is worth it. There are lots of things I waste $35 on throughout the year but the 10C membership isn't one of them IMO
"Pearl Jam has a thing where you pay $35 a year for 20% chance of getting tickets once they tour"
Cuyahoga Falls 92', Cuyahoga Falls 98', Cleveland 03', Cincinnati 03' (Flooded), Cincinnati 06', Cincinnati 14', Chicago N2 23', Indy 23' (Cancelled), Vegas N2 24', Seattle N1 24', Indy 24', Chicago N2 24', Boston N1 24'
__________0 -
Because of the pricing I applied for one show instead of two this time. My usual routine would have been trying to see two shows, which I did every time I could. As a 10C member, I used to feel sort of taken care of. "We got you". A decent priced ticket, early access to the venue. Now I'm in a lottery with a couple million other people maybe, and I can't apply to several shows to up my chances, when it involves crossing multiple borders. Because I'm expected to pay for every applied ticket. Hell, getting to an airport that has international flights is a 1000km journey for me.
They obviously conduct business in a different way now. Is this due to the change in management? Are they doing a Springsteen and selling their catalog next?
If the 10C is only paid access to a store front and a lottery - why bother?
I missed out in the GA as well. I know this is on me. Been too stressed to catch the registration bit and thought it was just a normal ticketmaster-sale... Bummed.
And kinda sick of the comments saying these are normal prices. I compared with Dave Matthews Band this summer. Comparative arenas and sizes. flat $100. So don't say it's become too expensive to tour. DMB was putting tons into their stage visuals and lights when Pearl Jam barely had movable lights. This is just about margins.0 -
Why doesn't entry into the Ten Club lottery automatically register you for the Ticketmaster General Sale?Before anyone asks, I did register for both, so this isn't a "read the instructions" issue.TM wants to filter out bots and resellers, so they have everyone register for the general sale. If we're in the club, it's highly unlikely we're bots. I know there are some resellers in here, but with most of the venues restricting resale prices, does that aspect really matter? If I'm entering the lottery for x shows, I more than likely want to go to those shows. If I don't get them in the lottery, I'm probably going to want to try to get them in the general sale, so why not just use my Ten Club entry as part of my general sale registration? Wouldn't this streamline things for members?"I'm a lucky man, to count on both hands the [shows I've done]. Some folks just have one, others they got none..."
Hartford 10.02.96 | Mansfield 2 09.16.98 | Mansfield 1 08.29.00 | Mansfield 1 07.02.03 | Mansfield 3 07.11.03 | Boston 2 05.25.06 | Tampa 04.11.16 | Fenway 1 08.05.16 | Fenway 2 08.07.16 | Fenway 1 09.02.18 | Fenway 2 09.04.18 | Baltimore 03.28.20 | Hamilton 09.06.22 | Toronto 09.08.22 | Nashville 09.16.22 | St Louis 09.18.22 | Baltimore 09.12.24 | Fenway 1 09.15.24 | Fenway 2 09.17.24
"He made the deal with the devil, we get to play with him.
He goes to hell, of course. We're going to heaven."0 -
I will be honest I don't need tickets but this is the first time in my life I've considered not renewing
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -0 -
More like a half-million, maybe. Member numbers go up to about 800000, but many of those will have lapsed (and some will have died over 33 years). And not every member is in the lottery. A lot of them live in places that are nowhere near the few cities hosting shows and don't have the money or flexibility to travel to shows.hansmarius said:Now I'm in a lottery with a couple million other people maybe,I gather speed from you fucking with me.0 -
Fine, I don't have the member count. Even so (no pun intended).BF25394 said:
More like a half-million, maybe. Member numbers go up to about 800000, but many of those will have lapsed (and some will have died over 33 years). And not every member is in the lottery. A lot of them live in places that are nowhere near the few cities hosting shows and don't have the money or flexibility to travel to shows.hansmarius said:Now I'm in a lottery with a couple million other people maybe,Post edited by hansmarius on0 -
Pearl Jam has most certainly changed (and have eared every right to). They are not the “fan friendly” band they used to be. PJ is a brand now. I’m with you in that I’m still super excited about the new music but this is the first time I’m sitting a tour out (except make up Indy show) due to the cost. It just doesn’t feel the same anymore with all the things that have been mentioned recently in this thread adding up. Kinda makes me sad.wnh1977 said:dunewall said:I'll pay $35 a year for let's say a 20-50% chance of getting tickets to shows without having to fight the bots in the general sale. If you're lucky enough to snag general sale or F2F tix - great. But if not, you are going to pay far more than $35 extra on the secondary market.
As I've said before - I was on a 0-11 lottery streak leading up to last year and I still think the membership is worth it. There are lots of things I waste $35 on throughout the year but the 10C membership isn't one of them IMO
I understand your point, but this doesn't jive with the supposed Pearl Jam way of doing things that we all loved when we were getting into the band... you know, that they were for the fans! In the past, a membership fee gave you a chance at concert tickets... but at the very least, you were able to get the things I mentioned in my earlier post... a vinyl single, a physical newsletter, a t-shirt. There was something tangible for the cost of membership before the chance of tickets even entered the equation. Oh wait, I forgot about the mp3 we get I think the vinyl fan club single strongly coincides with the band's waning fan-friendliness. It was timely and on-point for a long time. Then it would be a little late. Then it was more than a year behind. Then it was gone. But spin that black circle, kids!
So now $35 gets you a 25 - 50% chance of getting a $190 ticket (basically making it a $210 ticket)? I know it's not 1998 when I scored 3rd row, $30 tickets to the United Center after receiving a cool newsletter and vinyl single all for the price of $10... but you can't tell me this band's attention to detail and fan-friendliness hasn't nosedived. It's been talked about a ton over the years how many feel they keep the "Pearl Jam business" alive for the loads of cash they will surely bring in, losing almost every remnant of the fan-friendly ethos that they wanted to be defined by.
I still get excited when they put out new music... the 7-year break from 2013 - 2020 had me wondering if they had turned into a complete nostalgia act, but hopefully the 2 records over the past 5 years is more of the pace we see from here on out. And I still get excited when I score fan club tickets and get to plan a trip around a show. Bottom line is that I completely understand the frustrations of longtime fans. We felt truly appreciated for a long, long time... as of late (maybe 5+ years... coincidentally it might have been right around the time of that hideous, pathetic "Ridin' With Biden" t-shirt), I understand fans wondering if the band treats "Pearl Jam" as a highly-profitable part-time business.0 -
I'm done with Ten Club. 25+ years as a member and I get waitlistrd? Ungrateful0
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10C, floor seats are not desirable behind maybe row 6. Can you please stop ranking them higher than seats off the floor?? I literally got the second to last row of the floor for a show, while someone else whose member number is over 200K higher than mine got a way better seat. I don't understand how you think the very back of the floor is better than a seat off the floor.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
<rant>Abe Froman said:
Pearl Jam has most certainly changed (and have eared every right to). They are not the “fan friendly” band they used to be. PJ is a brand now. I’m with you in that I’m still super excited about the new music but this is the first time I’m sitting a tour out (except make up Indy show) due to the cost. It just doesn’t feel the same anymore with all the things that have been mentioned recently in this thread adding up. Kinda makes me sad.wnh1977 said:dunewall said:I'll pay $35 a year for let's say a 20-50% chance of getting tickets to shows without having to fight the bots in the general sale. If you're lucky enough to snag general sale or F2F tix - great. But if not, you are going to pay far more than $35 extra on the secondary market.
As I've said before - I was on a 0-11 lottery streak leading up to last year and I still think the membership is worth it. There are lots of things I waste $35 on throughout the year but the 10C membership isn't one of them IMO
I understand your point, but this doesn't jive with the supposed Pearl Jam way of doing things that we all loved when we were getting into the band... you know, that they were for the fans! In the past, a membership fee gave you a chance at concert tickets... but at the very least, you were able to get the things I mentioned in my earlier post... a vinyl single, a physical newsletter, a t-shirt. There was something tangible for the cost of membership before the chance of tickets even entered the equation. Oh wait, I forgot about the mp3 we get I think the vinyl fan club single strongly coincides with the band's waning fan-friendliness. It was timely and on-point for a long time. Then it would be a little late. Then it was more than a year behind. Then it was gone. But spin that black circle, kids!
So now $35 gets you a 25 - 50% chance of getting a $190 ticket (basically making it a $210 ticket)? I know it's not 1998 when I scored 3rd row, $30 tickets to the United Center after receiving a cool newsletter and vinyl single all for the price of $10... but you can't tell me this band's attention to detail and fan-friendliness hasn't nosedived. It's been talked about a ton over the years how many feel they keep the "Pearl Jam business" alive for the loads of cash they will surely bring in, losing almost every remnant of the fan-friendly ethos that they wanted to be defined by.
I still get excited when they put out new music... the 7-year break from 2013 - 2020 had me wondering if they had turned into a complete nostalgia act, but hopefully the 2 records over the past 5 years is more of the pace we see from here on out. And I still get excited when I score fan club tickets and get to plan a trip around a show. Bottom line is that I completely understand the frustrations of longtime fans. We felt truly appreciated for a long, long time... as of late (maybe 5+ years... coincidentally it might have been right around the time of that hideous, pathetic "Ridin' With Biden" t-shirt), I understand fans wondering if the band treats "Pearl Jam" as a highly-profitable part-time business.
I was extremely disappointed with how the 10C presale was handled.
My partner is a huge fan, has never seen PJ live (we missed 3 shows due to Covid), so I was willing to do all I could to secure decent seats no matter the cost.
I registered for the 10C presale and the 'registration sale'.
Initial excitement - I got tickets via the 10C presale - yeah!
But - why is Ticketmaster assigning seats? I have never seen that in any presale of any band before.
Due to medical reasons I always buy aisle seats - and now i get some 3rd rate seats bunched in the middle of a section - for a total of almost 400 bucks. Thanks - so I got some tickets, but I'll have to get rid of them as they are useless for us.
Then I go to all the reseller sites and they are flooded with listings for 2k, 4k or more per ticket.
At the same time I see comments here from long-time members who got nothing.
One of the benefits of the 10C membership:
Ten Club holds the best tickets in the house for members-only presale opportunities and rewards longtime fans for their dedication with seniority-based seating. Ten Club continually improves upon its ticketing program to ensure that fan club members have access to the most tickets possible per show.
Really? So, are all the scalpers long-term fan club members now?
Next up - the 'registration sale'. Wow - it was interesting to watch how minute-by-minute the good seats (floor seats and seats closer to stage) are being sprinkled on the market - at $800+ per ticket. A row here - a row there, once they are gone, the next set of 'premium' seats comes up.
Official statement:
PJ Premium seats are located in a variety of preferred locations and account for approximately 10% of ticket inventory per show. They are priced at market rate to offset increased touring costs while also keeping prices low for the rest of the ticket inventory. PJ Premium tickets will only be available through Ticketmaster Registration Sale along with regularly priced tickets.
I'm sorry, but after watching this for an extended period of time, I have a hard time believing that only 10% make up for premium seats.
I understand that - like everything else - touring costs have risen.
I was able to secure 2 PJ floor seats in 2022 for 300$ total - fees included.
But now 2 years later I'm shelling out over $1,800 - seriously?
I also wouldn't call almost $200 bucks for one shitty seat in the 10C presale 'a low price'.
If it hadn't been for my partner - I definitely would not have spent this amount of money for those seats.
I remember the tales of how Pearl Jam took on Ticketmaster.
Maybe way back when - but now it appears that PJ is very happy to play the money game.
It was PJ's choice to opt for this 'Premium seat' deal or not, but they happily signed up for it.
It was so refreshing to see last year how The Cure went toe to toe with Ticketmaster.
They didn't feel the need to sign up for this BS 'Premium' ticket deal.
Robert was constantly working behind the scenes until Ticketmaster even refunded excessive fees.
Now that is a band that cares about their fans!
</rant>0 -
Wow! This is the first time I’ve thought of not renewing my membership and also not going to a show in many, many years. I’m a TINK (two incomes, no kids) and we still can’t afford these Premium prices. I got shut out of the lottery and $875+ is the lowest ticket price available for MSG (the only place I got a code for) and that’s just way too steep. My first PJ show was like $9 in 1992 and now it’s about 100x more than that!! Wish my salary was…Lol
I'll ride the wave where it takes me...Orlando 4/24/92 & 8/23/92, Miami 3/28/94, Ft Laud 10/7/96, Alpine Valley 6/26/98, Missoula 9/30/12, EV Jax 11/24/12 & 11/25/12, Chicago (Wrigley) 7/19/13, Charlottesville 10/29/13, Charlotte 10/30/13, Tulsa 10/8/14, Lincoln 10/9/14, Denver 10/22/14, Jacksonville 4/12/16, Greenville 4/16/16, Telluride 7/9/16, Boston (Fenway) 8/5/16 & 8/7/16, Seattle (Safeco) 8/10/18, Boston (Fenway) 9/2/18 & 9/4/18, Dana Point 10/1/21 & 10/2/21, MSG 9/11/22, Denver 9/22/22, Austin 9/18/23 & 9/19/23.0 -
TinaKuhn172 said:</rant>
spot on! I complain, but it's even worse when people who's never had a shot at seeing them try amidst all this.0 -
I gotta say though, it's relieving to see americans also bothered by these prices and the handling of the sale, because when the announcement came and the pre-order opened I saw a lot of europeans being shocked by the price and being met with "if you don't like the price, don't go" around various FB groups and such.0
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The FB groups are hell on Earth. Avoid at all costs.hansmarius said:I gotta say though, it's relieving to see americans also bothered by these prices and the handling of the sale, because when the announcement came and the pre-order opened I saw a lot of europeans being shocked by the price and being met with "if you don't like the price, don't go" around various FB groups and such.___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
Dipped my feet in case of ticket emergency! Didn't help.The FB groups are hell on Earth. Avoid at all costs.0
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