Viruses / Vaccines 2

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  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,607
    Go Beavers said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    You mean the lies told about the vaccine? 

    It is based on an analysis by our team at the Brown School of Public Health, in collaboration with Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Microsoft AI for Health showing that between January 2021 and April 2022, vaccines could have prevented at least 318,000 Covid-19 deaths. This means that at least every second person who died from Covid-19 since vaccines became available might have been saved by getting the shot.
    https://globalepidemics.org/vaccinations/
    "Might have" is doing some lifting.
    I don't even know what to think of the vaccines anymore. I have four shots under my belt. I had covid about a year ago.

    Do I regret getting the shots? No; at least not yet. Will I again? Undecided. Probably.

    But we were sold:
    • It reduces the chance of getting covid  (Unsure; maybe before certain variants)
    • You need to get it so it won't spread (preposterous) 
    • It's safe (questionable; particularly in younger males)
    • It will reduce the severity of your bout with covid (True and seemingly the primary benefit it offers)

    "Conspiracy Theories":
    • It was shoved down our throats with the threat of people losing their livelihoods (True)
    • Societal benefit was marginal (Seems to be true)
    • Risky for individuals (True)
    • It's currently the vaxxed and not the unvaxed that are getting/spreading covid (Unsure; Never seen anything that will point to or for that)
    • Thousands of young male athletes are having cardiac episodes (Exaggerated but seemingly true)
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,876
    edited January 2024
    OnWis97 said:
    Go Beavers said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    You mean the lies told about the vaccine? 

    It is based on an analysis by our team at the Brown School of Public Health, in collaboration with Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Microsoft AI for Health showing that between January 2021 and April 2022, vaccines could have prevented at least 318,000 Covid-19 deaths. This means that at least every second person who died from Covid-19 since vaccines became available might have been saved by getting the shot.
    https://globalepidemics.org/vaccinations/
    "Might have" is doing some lifting.
    I don't even know what to think of the vaccines anymore. I have four shots under my belt. I had covid about a year ago.

    Do I regret getting the shots? No; at least not yet. Will I again? Undecided. Probably.

    But we were sold:
    • It reduces the chance of getting covid  (Unsure; maybe before certain variants)
    • You need to get it so it won't spread (preposterous) 
    • It's safe (questionable; particularly in younger males)
    • It will reduce the severity of your bout with covid (True and seemingly the primary benefit it offers)

    "Conspiracy Theories":
    • It was shoved down our throats with the threat of people losing their livelihoods (True)
    • Societal benefit was marginal (Seems to be true)
    • Risky for individuals (True)
    • It's currently the vaxxed and not the unvaxed that are getting/spreading covid (Unsure; Never seen anything that will point to or for that)
    • Thousands of young male athletes are having cardiac episodes (Exaggerated but seemingly true)
    How is it preposterous that the vaccine reduced the spread.  You can't know whether it did or not because not everyone got the shot and there was no controlled test to determine if it did or not.  We know from other viruses that severity of your symptoms has a direct correlation with your viral load, and therefore the level of contagiousness.  So if you agree that it reduces severity, doesn't it stand to reason that it would reduce the contagion?

    Second, if 'thousands' of young males are having more episodes (do you have that data?), how do you know that is from the vaccine and not the virus itself?  Is the data locked in that people without the vaccine have a normal rate of incidence compared to those with the vaccine?
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,750
    OnWis97 said:
    Go Beavers said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    You mean the lies told about the vaccine? 

    It is based on an analysis by our team at the Brown School of Public Health, in collaboration with Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Microsoft AI for Health showing that between January 2021 and April 2022, vaccines could have prevented at least 318,000 Covid-19 deaths. This means that at least every second person who died from Covid-19 since vaccines became available might have been saved by getting the shot.
    https://globalepidemics.org/vaccinations/
    "Might have" is doing some lifting.
    I don't even know what to think of the vaccines anymore. I have four shots under my belt. I had covid about a year ago.

    Do I regret getting the shots? No; at least not yet. Will I again? Undecided. Probably.

    But we were sold:
    • It reduces the chance of getting covid  (Unsure; maybe before certain variants)
    • You need to get it so it won't spread (preposterous) 
    • It's safe (questionable; particularly in younger males)
    • It will reduce the severity of your bout with covid (True and seemingly the primary benefit it offers)

    "Conspiracy Theories":
    • It was shoved down our throats with the threat of people losing their livelihoods (True)
    • Societal benefit was marginal (Seems to be true)
    • Risky for individuals (True)
    • It's currently the vaxxed and not the unvaxed that are getting/spreading covid (Unsure; Never seen anything that will point to or for that)
    • Thousands of young male athletes are having cardiac episodes (Exaggerated but seemingly true)
    What if I told you covid was causing heart problems in young male athletes long before the vaccine was available? Because it was… 
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,750
    edited January 2024
    Merkin Baller said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Go Beavers said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    You mean the lies told about the vaccine? 

    It is based on an analysis by our team at the Brown School of Public Health, in collaboration with Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Microsoft AI for Health showing that between January 2021 and April 2022, vaccines could have prevented at least 318,000 Covid-19 deaths. This means that at least every second person who died from Covid-19 since vaccines became available might have been saved by getting the shot.
    https://globalepidemics.org/vaccinations/
    "Might have" is doing some lifting.
    I don't even know what to think of the vaccines anymore. I have four shots under my belt. I had covid about a year ago.

    Do I regret getting the shots? No; at least not yet. Will I again? Undecided. Probably.

    But we were sold:
    • It reduces the chance of getting covid  (Unsure; maybe before certain variants)
    • You need to get it so it won't spread (preposterous) 
    • It's safe (questionable; particularly in younger males)
    • It will reduce the severity of your bout with covid (True and seemingly the primary benefit it offers)

    "Conspiracy Theories":
    • It was shoved down our throats with the threat of people losing their livelihoods (True)
    • Societal benefit was marginal (Seems to be true)
    • Risky for individuals (True)
    • It's currently the vaxxed and not the unvaxed that are getting/spreading covid (Unsure; Never seen anything that will point to or for that)
    • Thousands of young male athletes are having cardiac episodes (Exaggerated but seemingly true)
    What if I told you covid was causing heart problems in young male athletes long before the vaccine was available? Because it was… 
    & not for nothing, but the vaccine significantly reduced the severity of the virus for many people, resulting in fewer hospitalizations & deaths…. Suggesting the societal benefit was only marginal seems to be missing the forest for the trees here. 

    I don’t dispute that the vaccine didn’t do everything they told us (hoped?) it would, but that doesn’t mean the rollout wasn’t a net gain for society. 
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,535
    OnWis97 said:
    Go Beavers said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    You mean the lies told about the vaccine? 

    It is based on an analysis by our team at the Brown School of Public Health, in collaboration with Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Microsoft AI for Health showing that between January 2021 and April 2022, vaccines could have prevented at least 318,000 Covid-19 deaths. This means that at least every second person who died from Covid-19 since vaccines became available might have been saved by getting the shot.
    https://globalepidemics.org/vaccinations/
    "Might have" is doing some lifting.
    I don't even know what to think of the vaccines anymore. I have four shots under my belt. I had covid about a year ago.

    Do I regret getting the shots? No; at least not yet. Will I again? Undecided. Probably.

    But we were sold:
    • It reduces the chance of getting covid  (Unsure; maybe before certain variants)
    • You need to get it so it won't spread (preposterous) 
    • It's safe (questionable; particularly in younger males)
    • It will reduce the severity of your bout with covid (True and seemingly the primary benefit it offers)

    "Conspiracy Theories":
    • It was shoved down our throats with the threat of people losing their livelihoods (True)
    • Societal benefit was marginal (Seems to be true)
    • Risky for individuals (True)
    • It's currently the vaxxed and not the unvaxed that are getting/spreading covid (Unsure; Never seen anything that will point to or for that)
    • Thousands of young male athletes are having cardiac episodes (Exaggerated but seemingly true)
    None of those 5 things are actual conspiracy theories, and if the vaccine was effective in reducing severity, then it’s also true that unvaccinated people wouldn’t have died from Covid if they were vaccinated. Therefore the people who lied about the Covid vaccine led to people refusing the vaccine and a number of these people died as a result. 
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,929
    josevolution said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    What do you mean fooled? Does it really matter what the origin is at this point? Over a million deaths just here in America even knowing where the virus originated from wouldn’t have prevented the casualties! 
    it's the same thing to talk about a virus that escaped from a laboratory that was in collaboration with the American government and it's the same thing to talk about something natural??..of course not..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,929
    edited January 2024
    Go Beavers said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    You mean the lies told about the vaccine? 

    It is based on an analysis by our team at the Brown School of Public Health, in collaboration with Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Microsoft AI for Health showing that between January 2021 and April 2022, vaccines could have prevented at least 318,000 Covid-19 deaths. This means that at least every second person who died from Covid-19 since vaccines became available might have been saved by getting the shot.
    https://globalepidemics.org/vaccinations/
    Αgain..they told us that is 100% safe??..lie..
    they told us, ''get the vaccine so do not spread it??..lie..
    they yold us, ''get the vaccine , so dont get the virus??..lie..
    and the biggest one about the origin..
    how many vaccinated are now in the hospitals??..how many of the ''covid deaths'' are vaccinated and how many not??..
    Post edited by 23scidoo on
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,929
    Merkin Baller said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Go Beavers said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    You mean the lies told about the vaccine? 

    It is based on an analysis by our team at the Brown School of Public Health, in collaboration with Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Microsoft AI for Health showing that between January 2021 and April 2022, vaccines could have prevented at least 318,000 Covid-19 deaths. This means that at least every second person who died from Covid-19 since vaccines became available might have been saved by getting the shot.
    https://globalepidemics.org/vaccinations/
    "Might have" is doing some lifting.
    I don't even know what to think of the vaccines anymore. I have four shots under my belt. I had covid about a year ago.

    Do I regret getting the shots? No; at least not yet. Will I again? Undecided. Probably.

    But we were sold:
    • It reduces the chance of getting covid  (Unsure; maybe before certain variants)
    • You need to get it so it won't spread (preposterous) 
    • It's safe (questionable; particularly in younger males)
    • It will reduce the severity of your bout with covid (True and seemingly the primary benefit it offers)

    "Conspiracy Theories":
    • It was shoved down our throats with the threat of people losing their livelihoods (True)
    • Societal benefit was marginal (Seems to be true)
    • Risky for individuals (True)
    • It's currently the vaxxed and not the unvaxed that are getting/spreading covid (Unsure; Never seen anything that will point to or for that)
    • Thousands of young male athletes are having cardiac episodes (Exaggerated but seemingly true)
    What if I told you covid was causing heart problems in young male athletes long before the vaccine was available? Because it was… 
    & not for nothing, but the vaccine significantly reduced the severity of the virus for many people, resulting in fewer hospitalizations & deaths…. Suggesting the societal benefit was only marginal seems to be missing the forest for the trees here. 

    I don’t dispute that the vaccine didn’t do everything they told us (hoped?) it would, but that doesn’t mean the rollout wasn’t a net gain for society. 
    How much money will the big pharma lose if the vaccine was effective??
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,929
    Merkin Baller said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Go Beavers said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    You mean the lies told about the vaccine? 

    It is based on an analysis by our team at the Brown School of Public Health, in collaboration with Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Microsoft AI for Health showing that between January 2021 and April 2022, vaccines could have prevented at least 318,000 Covid-19 deaths. This means that at least every second person who died from Covid-19 since vaccines became available might have been saved by getting the shot.
    https://globalepidemics.org/vaccinations/
    "Might have" is doing some lifting.
    I don't even know what to think of the vaccines anymore. I have four shots under my belt. I had covid about a year ago.

    Do I regret getting the shots? No; at least not yet. Will I again? Undecided. Probably.

    But we were sold:
    • It reduces the chance of getting covid  (Unsure; maybe before certain variants)
    • You need to get it so it won't spread (preposterous) 
    • It's safe (questionable; particularly in younger males)
    • It will reduce the severity of your bout with covid (True and seemingly the primary benefit it offers)

    "Conspiracy Theories":
    • It was shoved down our throats with the threat of people losing their livelihoods (True)
    • Societal benefit was marginal (Seems to be true)
    • Risky for individuals (True)
    • It's currently the vaxxed and not the unvaxed that are getting/spreading covid (Unsure; Never seen anything that will point to or for that)
    • Thousands of young male athletes are having cardiac episodes (Exaggerated but seemingly true)
    What if I told you covid was causing heart problems in young male athletes long before the vaccine was available? Because it was… 
    Really now??..thousands felt down like flies, almost all of them double and triple vaccinated..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,359
    23scidoo said:
    josevolution said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    What do you mean fooled? Does it really matter what the origin is at this point? Over a million deaths just here in America even knowing where the virus originated from wouldn’t have prevented the casualties! 
    it's the same thing to talk about a virus that escaped from a laboratory that was in collaboration with the American government and it's the same thing to talk about something natural??..of course not..
    I would assume that the medical investigation, development of vaccines, distribution of vaccines, societal handling of the disease is the same regardless of lab-grown or organic. Am I wrong? 
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,887
    23scidoo said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Go Beavers said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    You mean the lies told about the vaccine? 

    It is based on an analysis by our team at the Brown School of Public Health, in collaboration with Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Microsoft AI for Health showing that between January 2021 and April 2022, vaccines could have prevented at least 318,000 Covid-19 deaths. This means that at least every second person who died from Covid-19 since vaccines became available might have been saved by getting the shot.
    https://globalepidemics.org/vaccinations/
    "Might have" is doing some lifting.
    I don't even know what to think of the vaccines anymore. I have four shots under my belt. I had covid about a year ago.

    Do I regret getting the shots? No; at least not yet. Will I again? Undecided. Probably.

    But we were sold:
    • It reduces the chance of getting covid  (Unsure; maybe before certain variants)
    • You need to get it so it won't spread (preposterous) 
    • It's safe (questionable; particularly in younger males)
    • It will reduce the severity of your bout with covid (True and seemingly the primary benefit it offers)

    "Conspiracy Theories":
    • It was shoved down our throats with the threat of people losing their livelihoods (True)
    • Societal benefit was marginal (Seems to be true)
    • Risky for individuals (True)
    • It's currently the vaxxed and not the unvaxed that are getting/spreading covid (Unsure; Never seen anything that will point to or for that)
    • Thousands of young male athletes are having cardiac episodes (Exaggerated but seemingly true)
    What if I told you covid was causing heart problems in young male athletes long before the vaccine was available? Because it was… 
    Really now??..thousands felt down like flies, almost all of them double and triple vaccinated..
    I mean, it hasn't been uncommon to hear about a young healthy sports player having a cardiac event.   I suppose you'd need to compare how many people this happened to precovid vs now, and what the vaccination status was.   Is it higher, is it lower then it used to be?  Is it happening more in vaxxed people, unvaxxed people, unvaxxed people that have had covid, vaccinated people who had covid, etc...

    Just saying it's thousands lacks context.   Is that Americans, globally, what the population size, how does it compare to pre covid etc.    How long of a period of time is it over, 2 or 3 years, what's the annual rate, how does it compare to precovid.   How does it compare in vaxxed people vs unvaxxed people who had covid.. etc..

    You kind of need context as to whether 1000's is different than normal?
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,535
    23scidoo said:
    Go Beavers said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    You mean the lies told about the vaccine? 

    It is based on an analysis by our team at the Brown School of Public Health, in collaboration with Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Microsoft AI for Health showing that between January 2021 and April 2022, vaccines could have prevented at least 318,000 Covid-19 deaths. This means that at least every second person who died from Covid-19 since vaccines became available might have been saved by getting the shot.
    https://globalepidemics.org/vaccinations/
    Αgain..they told us that is 100% safe??..lie..
    they told us, ''get the vaccine so do not spread it??..lie..
    they yold us, ''get the vaccine , so dont get the virus??..lie..
    and the biggest one about the origin..
    how many vaccinated are now in the hospitals??..how many of the ''covid deaths'' are vaccinated and how many not??..
    Who is “they”? Any information from reliable sources with a scientific background acknowledged the risks, said accurately that you’re less linely to soread it when vaccinated, and that it reduces severity. 

    So again, what about the lies told about the vaccine that led to people dying because they decided to not get it? 
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,750
    edited January 2024
    23scidoo said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Go Beavers said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    You mean the lies told about the vaccine? 

    It is based on an analysis by our team at the Brown School of Public Health, in collaboration with Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Microsoft AI for Health showing that between January 2021 and April 2022, vaccines could have prevented at least 318,000 Covid-19 deaths. This means that at least every second person who died from Covid-19 since vaccines became available might have been saved by getting the shot.
    https://globalepidemics.org/vaccinations/
    "Might have" is doing some lifting.
    I don't even know what to think of the vaccines anymore. I have four shots under my belt. I had covid about a year ago.

    Do I regret getting the shots? No; at least not yet. Will I again? Undecided. Probably.

    But we were sold:
    • It reduces the chance of getting covid  (Unsure; maybe before certain variants)
    • You need to get it so it won't spread (preposterous) 
    • It's safe (questionable; particularly in younger males)
    • It will reduce the severity of your bout with covid (True and seemingly the primary benefit it offers)

    "Conspiracy Theories":
    • It was shoved down our throats with the threat of people losing their livelihoods (True)
    • Societal benefit was marginal (Seems to be true)
    • Risky for individuals (True)
    • It's currently the vaxxed and not the unvaxed that are getting/spreading covid (Unsure; Never seen anything that will point to or for that)
    • Thousands of young male athletes are having cardiac episodes (Exaggerated but seemingly true)
    What if I told you covid was causing heart problems in young male athletes long before the vaccine was available? Because it was… 
    Really now??..thousands felt down like flies, almost all of them double and triple vaccinated..
    Share your source for this information. Show us where thousands dropped like flies because of the vaccine as you appear to be implying. 

    Post edited by Merkin Baller on
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,535
    Zod said:
    23scidoo said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Go Beavers said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    You mean the lies told about the vaccine? 

    It is based on an analysis by our team at the Brown School of Public Health, in collaboration with Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Microsoft AI for Health showing that between January 2021 and April 2022, vaccines could have prevented at least 318,000 Covid-19 deaths. This means that at least every second person who died from Covid-19 since vaccines became available might have been saved by getting the shot.
    https://globalepidemics.org/vaccinations/
    "Might have" is doing some lifting.
    I don't even know what to think of the vaccines anymore. I have four shots under my belt. I had covid about a year ago.

    Do I regret getting the shots? No; at least not yet. Will I again? Undecided. Probably.

    But we were sold:
    • It reduces the chance of getting covid  (Unsure; maybe before certain variants)
    • You need to get it so it won't spread (preposterous) 
    • It's safe (questionable; particularly in younger males)
    • It will reduce the severity of your bout with covid (True and seemingly the primary benefit it offers)

    "Conspiracy Theories":
    • It was shoved down our throats with the threat of people losing their livelihoods (True)
    • Societal benefit was marginal (Seems to be true)
    • Risky for individuals (True)
    • It's currently the vaxxed and not the unvaxed that are getting/spreading covid (Unsure; Never seen anything that will point to or for that)
    • Thousands of young male athletes are having cardiac episodes (Exaggerated but seemingly true)
    What if I told you covid was causing heart problems in young male athletes long before the vaccine was available? Because it was… 
    Really now??..thousands felt down like flies, almost all of them double and triple vaccinated..
    I mean, it hasn't been uncommon to hear about a young healthy sports player having a cardiac event.   I suppose you'd need to compare how many people this happened to precovid vs now, and what the vaccination status was.   Is it higher, is it lower then it used to be?  Is it happening more in vaxxed people, unvaxxed people, unvaxxed people that have had covid, vaccinated people who had covid, etc...

    Just saying it's thousands lacks context.   Is that Americans, globally, what the population size, how does it compare to pre covid etc.    How long of a period of time is it over, 2 or 3 years, what's the annual rate, how does it compare to precovid.   How does it compare in vaxxed people vs unvaxxed people who had covid.. etc..

    You kind of need context as to whether 1000's is different than normal?
    Why you gotta be sciency? 
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,929
    benjs said:
    23scidoo said:
    josevolution said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    What do you mean fooled? Does it really matter what the origin is at this point? Over a million deaths just here in America even knowing where the virus originated from wouldn’t have prevented the casualties! 
    it's the same thing to talk about a virus that escaped from a laboratory that was in collaboration with the American government and it's the same thing to talk about something natural??..of course not..
    I would assume that the medical investigation, development of vaccines, distribution of vaccines, societal handling of the disease is the same regardless of lab-grown or organic. Am I wrong? 
    How about the moral issue??
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,929
    Zod said:
    23scidoo said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Go Beavers said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    You mean the lies told about the vaccine? 

    It is based on an analysis by our team at the Brown School of Public Health, in collaboration with Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Microsoft AI for Health showing that between January 2021 and April 2022, vaccines could have prevented at least 318,000 Covid-19 deaths. This means that at least every second person who died from Covid-19 since vaccines became available might have been saved by getting the shot.
    https://globalepidemics.org/vaccinations/
    "Might have" is doing some lifting.
    I don't even know what to think of the vaccines anymore. I have four shots under my belt. I had covid about a year ago.

    Do I regret getting the shots? No; at least not yet. Will I again? Undecided. Probably.

    But we were sold:
    • It reduces the chance of getting covid  (Unsure; maybe before certain variants)
    • You need to get it so it won't spread (preposterous) 
    • It's safe (questionable; particularly in younger males)
    • It will reduce the severity of your bout with covid (True and seemingly the primary benefit it offers)

    "Conspiracy Theories":
    • It was shoved down our throats with the threat of people losing their livelihoods (True)
    • Societal benefit was marginal (Seems to be true)
    • Risky for individuals (True)
    • It's currently the vaxxed and not the unvaxed that are getting/spreading covid (Unsure; Never seen anything that will point to or for that)
    • Thousands of young male athletes are having cardiac episodes (Exaggerated but seemingly true)
    What if I told you covid was causing heart problems in young male athletes long before the vaccine was available? Because it was… 
    Really now??..thousands felt down like flies, almost all of them double and triple vaccinated..
    I mean, it hasn't been uncommon to hear about a young healthy sports player having a cardiac event.   I suppose you'd need to compare how many people this happened to precovid vs now, and what the vaccination status was.   Is it higher, is it lower then it used to be?  Is it happening more in vaxxed people, unvaxxed people, unvaxxed people that have had covid, vaccinated people who had covid, etc...

    Just saying it's thousands lacks context.   Is that Americans, globally, what the population size, how does it compare to pre covid etc.    How long of a period of time is it over, 2 or 3 years, what's the annual rate, how does it compare to precovid.   How does it compare in vaxxed people vs unvaxxed people who had covid.. etc..

    You kind of need context as to whether 1000's is different than normal?
    Hand on heart answer me please, let's say two years before and two years after the virus, you hear about the same frequency of deaths??..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,929
    Merkin Baller said:
    23scidoo said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Go Beavers said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    You mean the lies told about the vaccine? 

    It is based on an analysis by our team at the Brown School of Public Health, in collaboration with Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Microsoft AI for Health showing that between January 2021 and April 2022, vaccines could have prevented at least 318,000 Covid-19 deaths. This means that at least every second person who died from Covid-19 since vaccines became available might have been saved by getting the shot.
    https://globalepidemics.org/vaccinations/
    "Might have" is doing some lifting.
    I don't even know what to think of the vaccines anymore. I have four shots under my belt. I had covid about a year ago.

    Do I regret getting the shots? No; at least not yet. Will I again? Undecided. Probably.

    But we were sold:
    • It reduces the chance of getting covid  (Unsure; maybe before certain variants)
    • You need to get it so it won't spread (preposterous) 
    • It's safe (questionable; particularly in younger males)
    • It will reduce the severity of your bout with covid (True and seemingly the primary benefit it offers)

    "Conspiracy Theories":
    • It was shoved down our throats with the threat of people losing their livelihoods (True)
    • Societal benefit was marginal (Seems to be true)
    • Risky for individuals (True)
    • It's currently the vaxxed and not the unvaxed that are getting/spreading covid (Unsure; Never seen anything that will point to or for that)
    • Thousands of young male athletes are having cardiac episodes (Exaggerated but seemingly true)
    What if I told you covid was causing heart problems in young male athletes long before the vaccine was available? Because it was… 
    Really now??..thousands felt down like flies, almost all of them double and triple vaccinated..
    Share your source for this information. Show us where thousands dropped like flies because of the vaccine as you appear to be implying. 

    There is no chance, my friend, for them to be connected to each other..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,750
    edited February 2024
    23scidoo said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    23scidoo said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Go Beavers said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    You mean the lies told about the vaccine? 

    It is based on an analysis by our team at the Brown School of Public Health, in collaboration with Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Microsoft AI for Health showing that between January 2021 and April 2022, vaccines could have prevented at least 318,000 Covid-19 deaths. This means that at least every second person who died from Covid-19 since vaccines became available might have been saved by getting the shot.
    https://globalepidemics.org/vaccinations/
    "Might have" is doing some lifting.
    I don't even know what to think of the vaccines anymore. I have four shots under my belt. I had covid about a year ago.

    Do I regret getting the shots? No; at least not yet. Will I again? Undecided. Probably.

    But we were sold:
    • It reduces the chance of getting covid  (Unsure; maybe before certain variants)
    • You need to get it so it won't spread (preposterous) 
    • It's safe (questionable; particularly in younger males)
    • It will reduce the severity of your bout with covid (True and seemingly the primary benefit it offers)

    "Conspiracy Theories":
    • It was shoved down our throats with the threat of people losing their livelihoods (True)
    • Societal benefit was marginal (Seems to be true)
    • Risky for individuals (True)
    • It's currently the vaxxed and not the unvaxed that are getting/spreading covid (Unsure; Never seen anything that will point to or for that)
    • Thousands of young male athletes are having cardiac episodes (Exaggerated but seemingly true)
    What if I told you covid was causing heart problems in young male athletes long before the vaccine was available? Because it was… 
    Really now??..thousands felt down like flies, almost all of them double and triple vaccinated..
    Share your source for this information. Show us where thousands dropped like flies because of the vaccine as you appear to be implying. 

    There is no chance, my friend, for them to be connected to each other..
    You can’t show us where “thousands are dropping like flies” [from the vaccine] because it simply isn’t happening. 
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,929
    Merkin Baller said:
    23scidoo said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    23scidoo said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Go Beavers said:
    23scidoo said:
    Αnd again, why is it so hard for you to admit that we were fooled, that we were told a bunch of lies??
    You mean the lies told about the vaccine? 

    It is based on an analysis by our team at the Brown School of Public Health, in collaboration with Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Microsoft AI for Health showing that between January 2021 and April 2022, vaccines could have prevented at least 318,000 Covid-19 deaths. This means that at least every second person who died from Covid-19 since vaccines became available might have been saved by getting the shot.
    https://globalepidemics.org/vaccinations/
    "Might have" is doing some lifting.
    I don't even know what to think of the vaccines anymore. I have four shots under my belt. I had covid about a year ago.

    Do I regret getting the shots? No; at least not yet. Will I again? Undecided. Probably.

    But we were sold:
    • It reduces the chance of getting covid  (Unsure; maybe before certain variants)
    • You need to get it so it won't spread (preposterous) 
    • It's safe (questionable; particularly in younger males)
    • It will reduce the severity of your bout with covid (True and seemingly the primary benefit it offers)

    "Conspiracy Theories":
    • It was shoved down our throats with the threat of people losing their livelihoods (True)
    • Societal benefit was marginal (Seems to be true)
    • Risky for individuals (True)
    • It's currently the vaxxed and not the unvaxed that are getting/spreading covid (Unsure; Never seen anything that will point to or for that)
    • Thousands of young male athletes are having cardiac episodes (Exaggerated but seemingly true)
    What if I told you covid was causing heart problems in young male athletes long before the vaccine was available? Because it was… 
    Really now??..thousands felt down like flies, almost all of them double and triple vaccinated..
    Share your source for this information. Show us where thousands dropped like flies because of the vaccine as you appear to be implying. 

    There is no chance, my friend, for them to be connected to each other..
    You can’t show us where “thousands are dropping like flies” [from the vaccine] because it simply isn’t happening. 
    No, you just can't connected..only in 2021, 108 FIFA footballers died or suffer..its all out there..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,750
    you really need to do better homework. 

    “Reuters looked into the list of 108 names provided by Real Time News (bit.ly/32pqrt7 , page 6). It appears to be compiled using news reports of the deaths of 108 people, aged 12 – 64, worldwide.
    Among the sports attributed to the names are American football, archery, athletics, badminton, ballet, baseball, basketball, body building, boxing, canoeing, cricket, cycling, field hockey, footvolley, handball, ice hockey, rugby (league and union), soccer, table tennis, tennis, volleyball and weightlifting.
    While it is true that many of the deaths were linked in news reports to heart issues, there is no current evidence that they prove a common link between COVID-19 vaccines and fatality.
    In 53 cases, a cause of death was reported. These include heart attacks brought on by previously known or unknown heart conditions, while others included prior COVID-19 infections, a cerebral aneurysm, a traumatic brain injury, a motorbike accident, one suicide, two suspected suicides, heat stroke, and a rare congenital condition – anomalous origin of coronary artery.
    Moreover, one case was reported in August 2019, prior to the pandemic, and another had a family confirm their relative was not vaccinated.
    Some of the listed deaths also occurred prior to vaccine rollouts for respective age groups in certain countries.“

    https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N2T81NY/

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